BART takeover robbery: 40 to 60 teens swarm train, rob weekend riders
Source: SF Gate
A recent string of robberies on BART trains took a frightening turn when dozens of juveniles swarmed an Oakland station over the weekend and commandeered a train car, forcing passengers to hand over bags and cell phones and leaving at least two with head injuries, witnesses told the transit agency.
The incident the first of its kind in recent memory occurred around 9:30 p.m. Saturday at Coliseum Station.
According to a police officials, witnesses said 40 to 60 juveniles flooded the station, jumped the fare gates and rushed to the second-story train platform. Some of the robbers apparently held open the doors of a Dublin-bound train car while others streamed inside, confronting and robbing and in some cases beating riders.
The juveniles committed multiple strong-arm robberies of bags and cell phones, said a police summary prepared after the incident. At least two victims suffered head/facial injuries requiring medical attention.
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/BART-takeover-robbery-50-to-60-teens-swarm-11094745.php%20-?cmpid=nl_top
BART officials are withholding all video footage of the event because the perpetrators appear to be minors.
JudyM
(29,225 posts)There will be a social media trail...
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)They call them flash mobs. They do it in NYC, but no one steals anything, they just take off their pants.
http://abc7ny.com/society/photos-thousands-turn-out-for-no-pants-subway-ride/1692346/
EL34x4
(2,003 posts)On a train, you are captive. Nowhere to go. Either comply or fight.
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)Things spiraled out of control in a flash when, according to Guendelsberger, the group of nearly 40 teens chased them down a nearby alley. The teens began punching her male friends in the head to knock them over and then kicked them once they were down on the ground.
Guendelsberger's boyfriend was left with a sneaker imprint on his forehead, she said. At one point someone tried to take her bag, and she was punched in the face, knocking her over.
Her tibia was snapped in half, and there was a crack in the bone behind her kneecap. It is being held together with screws.
"It was nuts," she said, gazing at her right leg inside a metal brace elevated on a kitchen chair. "We got off comparatively easy. It was awful, but nobody had anything permanent happen to them."
Iggo
(47,547 posts)mahatmakanejeeves
(57,379 posts)appal_jack
(3,813 posts)MicaelS
(8,747 posts)They're brains are still developing. It's not their fault. They're not responsible.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)What would you expect the punishment to be for something like this?
There should certainly be something but at the same time surely you are not suggesting that they should be treated as adults.
hack89
(39,171 posts)time to spread the message that violence will not be tolerated in America.
PdxSean
(574 posts)Surely a civilized, moral, thinking society can hold minors accountable while recognizing that minors do not have the same cognitive, mental or emotional development of adults. Do you not agree that minors are too immature to have the right to vote?
hack89
(39,171 posts)that cater towards their development into law abiding adults while protecting society from their violent ways. No automatic release from the juvenile system when they hit 18 - no locking up a 16 year for two years for a crime that would put a 18 year old in jail for 10.
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)The alternative would be dealing with my Dad! Jail would be a much better option.
Baconator
(1,459 posts)... but in the moment I don't expect anyone to hold back in self defense.
vkkv
(3,384 posts)2nd reaction is that this could become more commonplace.
3rd reaction is why are these kids screwing with mostly their own people?
4th reaction is I'm glad the paying riders weren't all with CCWs..
5th reaction is even an 8 yr old knows the difference between right and wrong. Lock'em up.
EL34x4
(2,003 posts)...On Saturday night, 40-60 juveniles commandeered a train in San Francisco, robbed and beat the passengers, and only now are we hearing about this?
sarisataka
(18,570 posts)No guns involved, mostly "their own people" so 'meh, inner-city crime'; MSM and the vast majority of the country ignores it.
pablo_marmol
(2,375 posts)Didn't bleed (much) so it didn't lead. If three perps would have shot some passengers and committed robbery it would have made the news earlier.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)to justify such measures.
ansible
(1,718 posts)BART trains, especially around Oakland, don't have that many cameras to begin with so there won't be much evidence. And it'll probably happen again, BART is afraid of policing the Oakland area stations due to the Oskar Grant incident.
7962
(11,841 posts)The train was full of actual working people
And if your #2 is correct, then the end result will be #4.
vkkv
(3,384 posts)instead of driving a plush car to a parking space.
OK, I'll bite. I wasn't picturing the racism that you've imagined nor was I calling their families "criminal".
Are you sure that none of your friends or family or friends' families ("your people" have driven drunk on occasion, run a stop light, supplied alcohol to a minor, stolen anything, taken illegal drugs??
No? Okay, than 'your people' are not criminals. Got it.
7962
(11,841 posts)As you said, the people on that train were most likely regular working folk & not like them at all, unless by simply living in the same area makes you the same.
criminals usually do their crimes locally
And WHAT racism? I saw no mention of race in the story. I didnt see a video, so how would i know what the race is of these fools?
vkkv
(3,384 posts)you.
You use the word "criminal" only on those who do not break the law the same way as your family or friends even though they are likely breaking the law.
Know any pot smokers? Any pot smokers in your family? Yes, they are "criminals", too. Okay, they aren't Palestinian "terrorists" fighting to get back land that was stolen from them, but they are still criminals in the eye of the law.
The dirt-bag teenagers who robbed from their own working-class people are the lowest of the low and should be prosecuted, not unlike our gov't reps who steal from us while claiming to be one of us.
Now please, just stop, I'm asking you to PLEASE go away.
7962
(11,841 posts)I guess you feel the same way about loading prisons with non violent criminals, right?
The bricklayer here illegally and the MS 13 member here illegally? I mean, theyre ALL criminals right? All deserve punishment!
I use "criminal" because its an accurate descriptor of these fools, not as a derogatory term. And it is accurate. Its really ver simple. You dont have to look for some darker meaning other than what the news says it is.
vkkv
(3,384 posts)- and since there are 40k traffic deaths every year and that speeding is the #1 killer in traffic deaths
= speeding can be a criminal act.
EX500rider
(10,835 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)both criminals and people who don't commit crimes.
exboyfil
(17,862 posts)Really.
It might take only one CCW to persuade others that robbery is not an appropriate activity.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)so they can (a) avoid them out of safety and (b) alert law enforcement to their whereabouts.
F@ck that "they're minors so we need to protect their pwecious widdle pwivacy" nonsense.
salin
(48,955 posts)due to possible law suits due to privacy legal issues of minors.
Dyedinthewoolliberal
(15,563 posts)You know, shoot the first one or two and the rest will leave..............
cwp = concealed weapon permit
ansible
(1,718 posts)appal_jack
(3,813 posts)Why should a victim of crime be able to defend themselves from potentially fatal beatings?
-app
Iggo
(47,547 posts)I know that gives gunfondlers a sad, but I call that a good day.
pablo_marmol
(2,375 posts)to their citizens. States like Oregon and Washington for example -- that allowed concealed carry years before the "gunz happy" states of Texas and Arizona.
Of course if one of these punks would have been shot.......scattering the rest.......The Controllers would have a sad.
vkkv
(3,384 posts)Concealed carry weapons are a county issue. Sheriff Depts issue them within their own jurisdiction. Some counties will honor another county's permit, some won't
You may be thinking of "open carry".
pablo_marmol
(2,375 posts)Densely populated urban areas? Nope. Unless of course you're a celebrity or are connected. May issue in CA is in practice corrupt issue.
7962
(11,841 posts)In this case I bet it would have been a stampede thru the door
Youtube is loaded with examples where the cowardly criminals scatter the moment they're on the receiving end of violence.
Baclava
(12,047 posts)I bet
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)Aren't the 49ers the home team?
Baclava
(12,047 posts)"The agency...is in the midst of installing surveillance cameras in train cars after The Chronicle reported that most of the existing cameras were decoys."
DorothyG
(95 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)Baclava
(12,047 posts)Cell phones can be tracked, right?
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Baclava
(12,047 posts)Viva Las Vegas!
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)#1 team, IIRC, in player arrests over past 3 years?
The 49er's.
And just because people wear Raiders gear, as you should be aware ... doesn't mean they're actual Raider fans ... the Coliseum BART station (and the Coliseum, of course) is on the outskirts of a very rough and downtrodden neighborhood.
Lucky Luciano
(11,253 posts)Hassin Bin Sober
(26,324 posts)So let's pre-coddle the scum before we know their actual ages.
Release the video so they can be caught. Remove it based on actual age proof if need be.
And if the minors and their parents don't like their photos in the media, too fucking bad. Next time don't rob trains.
Baconator
(1,459 posts)Vogon_Glory
(9,117 posts)And a lot of them are going to find out that "Find my phone" apps are NOT their friends.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)more than outright train robbery
Punching and jumping on people shopping in a high end area were more prominent than robbery but that occurred plenty too and all are crimes!
Planned all on social media , cops got wise to it since, so I haven't heard recent years of any real big wildings, but about 20 or 30 teens attacked around university of Chicago last summer I recall.
Edit
Looked it up it was 2013 when those big mobs went downtown
Bad summer for that in Chicago
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/03/30/breaking-chicago-police-swarm-mag-mile-wilding-scene/
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)Just one and he is dead now.
https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20170424/midtown/lex-ave-59th-st-subway-station-person-dead-mta-service-changes
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)I do not know Cali. law.
christx30
(6,241 posts)legally carry a firearm. The only people allowed to carry one are the police. So unless a cop happens to be there on the train when something like this happens, the people are either going to have to comply with being robbed by 40-50 kids, or fight them bare handed. Lots of people are going to get hurt.
EL34x4
(2,003 posts)Backed by the NRA and Republicans, "national concealed carry" means that someone with a CCW license issued from, say, Mississippi will be able to carry a concealed firearm in San Francisco.
Baconator
(1,459 posts)ripcord
(5,327 posts)That decision is made at the state level, California only allows people with permits from California to carry, others state's permits are not allowed, so anyone with a CCW permit approved by a county sheriff and issued by the state can carry in San Francisco.
hardluck
(638 posts)California is, by judicial precedent, a stand your ground state. There is no duty to retreat. Here's the applicable jury instruction:
505. Justifiable Homicide: Self-Defense or Defense of Another
The defendant is not guilty of (murder/ [or] manslaughter/ attempted murder/ [or] attempted voluntary manslaughter) if (he/she) was justified in (killing/attempting to kill) someone in (self-defense/ [or] defense of another). The defendant acted in lawful (self-defense/ [or] defense of another) if:
1. The defendant reasonably believed that (he/she/ [or] someone else/ [or] <insert name or description of third party> )
was in imminent danger of being killed or suffering great bodily injury [or was in imminent danger of being (raped/maimed/robbed/ <insert other forcible and atrocious crime> ];
2. The defendant reasonably believed that the immediate use of deadly force was necessary to defend against that danger;
AND
3. The defendant used no more force than was reasonably necessary to defend against that danger.
Belief in future harm is not sufficient, no matter how great or how likely the harm is believed to be. The defendant must have believed there was imminent danger of death or great bodily injury to (himself/herself/ [or] someone else). Defendants belief must have been reasonable and (he/she) must have acted only because of that belief. The defendant is only entitled to use that amount of force that a reasonable person would believe is necessary in the same situation. If the defendant used more force than was reasonable, the [attempted] killing was not justified.
When deciding whether the defendants beliefs were reasonable, consider all the circumstances as they were known to and appeared to the defendant and consider what a reasonable person in a similar situation with similar knowledge would have believed. If the defendants beliefs were reasonable, the danger does not need to have actually existed.
(The defendants belief that (he/she/ [or] someone else) was threatened may be reasonable even if (he/she) relied on information that was not true. However, the defendant must actually and reasonably have believed that the information was true.)
(If you find that <insert name of decedent/victim> threatened or harmed the defendant [or others] in the past, you may
consider that information in deciding whether the defendants conduct and beliefs were reasonable.)
(If you find that the defendant knew that <insert name of decedent/victim> had threatened or harmed others in the past, you may consider that information in deciding whether the defendants conduct and beliefs were reasonable.)
(Someone who has been threatened or harmed by a person in the past, is justified in acting more quickly or taking greater self-defense measures against that person.)
(If you find that the defendant received a threat from someone else that (he/she) reasonably associated with <insert name of decedent/victim>, you may consider that threat in deciding whether the defendant was justified in acting in (self-defense/ [or] defense of another).)
(A defendant is not required to retreat. He or she is entitled to stand his or her ground and defend himself or herself and, if reasonably necessary, to pursue an assailant until the danger of (death/great bodily injury/ <insert forcible and atrocious crime> ) has passed. This is so even if safety could have been achieved by retreating.)
(Great bodily injury means significant or substantial physical injury. It is an injury that is greater than minor or moderate harm.)
The People have the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the [attempted] killing was not justified. If the People have not met this burden, you must find the defendant not guilty of (murder/ [or] manslaughter/ attempted murder/ [or] attempted voluntary manslaughter)
California is a may issue state and the issuance of concealed carry permits is decided by the county sheriffs' office. Each county has its own rules. Rural counties such as Ventura county state that general self-defense meets the requirement of good cause. Other counties, such as Los Angeles (and i'm pretty sure SF and Alameda County) require an a more specific reason for good cause.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)Just from the general public.
EL34x4
(2,003 posts)...That alone is probably a serious federal offense. And yet BART officials are treating this brazen attack as though these are nothing but youthful indiscretions, like TP'ing a house or egging some cars.
Great. They're going to show the footage to some schools. That ought to make everyone rest easy.