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Mon Apr 24, 2017, 04:33 PM

 

BART takeover robbery: 40 to 60 teens swarm train, rob weekend riders

Source: SF Gate

A recent string of robberies on BART trains took a frightening turn when dozens of juveniles swarmed an Oakland station over the weekend and commandeered a train car, forcing passengers to hand over bags and cell phones and leaving at least two with head injuries, witnesses told the transit agency.

The incident — the first of its kind in recent memory — occurred around 9:30 p.m. Saturday at Coliseum Station.

According to a police officials, witnesses said 40 to 60 juveniles flooded the station, jumped the fare gates and rushed to the second-story train platform. Some of the robbers apparently held open the doors of a Dublin-bound train car while others streamed inside, confronting and robbing and in some cases beating riders.

The juveniles “committed multiple strong-arm robberies of bags and cell phones,” said a police summary prepared after the incident. “At least two victims suffered head/facial injuries requiring medical attention.”



Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/BART-takeover-robbery-50-to-60-teens-swarm-11094745.php%20-?cmpid=nl_top



BART officials are withholding all video footage of the event because the perpetrators appear to be minors.

67 replies, 13090 views

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Reply BART takeover robbery: 40 to 60 teens swarm train, rob weekend riders (Original post)
EL34x4 Apr 2017 OP
JudyM Apr 2017 #1
HoneyBadger Apr 2017 #8
EL34x4 Apr 2017 #9
HoneyBadger Apr 2017 #12
Baconator Apr 2017 #58
HoneyBadger Apr 2017 #13
Iggo Apr 2017 #2
mahatmakanejeeves Apr 2017 #3
appal_jack Apr 2017 #29
MicaelS Apr 2017 #10
Egnever Apr 2017 #39
hack89 Apr 2017 #48
PdxSean Apr 2017 #52
hack89 Apr 2017 #56
redstatebluegirl Apr 2017 #53
Baconator Apr 2017 #59
vkkv Apr 2017 #4
EL34x4 Apr 2017 #5
sarisataka Apr 2017 #27
pablo_marmol Apr 2017 #43
geek tragedy Apr 2017 #7
ansible Apr 2017 #18
7962 Apr 2017 #22
vkkv Apr 2017 #33
7962 Apr 2017 #37
vkkv Apr 2017 #41
7962 Apr 2017 #47
vkkv Apr 2017 #49
EX500rider Apr 2017 #57
treestar Apr 2017 #60
exboyfil Apr 2017 #51
geek tragedy Apr 2017 #6
salin Apr 2017 #11
Dyedinthewoolliberal Apr 2017 #14
ansible Apr 2017 #15
Iggo Apr 2017 #16
appal_jack Apr 2017 #30
Iggo Apr 2017 #36
pablo_marmol Apr 2017 #46
vkkv Apr 2017 #34
pablo_marmol Apr 2017 #44
7962 Apr 2017 #38
pablo_marmol Apr 2017 #45
Baclava Apr 2017 #17
HoneyBadger Apr 2017 #19
Baclava Apr 2017 #20
DorothyG Apr 2017 #21
7962 Apr 2017 #23
Baclava Apr 2017 #25
Codeine Apr 2017 #24
Baclava Apr 2017 #26
Egnever Apr 2017 #40
mr_lebowski Apr 2017 #55
Lucky Luciano Apr 2017 #28
Hassin Bin Sober Apr 2017 #31
Baconator Apr 2017 #64
Vogon_Glory Apr 2017 #32
lunasun Apr 2017 #35
HoneyBadger Apr 2017 #42
oneshooter Apr 2017 #50
christx30 Apr 2017 #54
EL34x4 Apr 2017 #61
Baconator Apr 2017 #63
ripcord Apr 2017 #67
hardluck Apr 2017 #62
Yo_Mama Apr 2017 #65
EL34x4 Apr 2017 #66

Response to EL34x4 (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 04:43 PM

1. Crazy:40-60 kids?!

There will be a social media trail...

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Response to JudyM (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 04:56 PM

8. Happens in Philly and at malls from time to time

 

They call them flash mobs. They do it in NYC, but no one steals anything, they just take off their pants.

http://abc7ny.com/society/photos-thousands-turn-out-for-no-pants-subway-ride/1692346/

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Response to HoneyBadger (Reply #8)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 05:02 PM

9. At least at the mall, you have a fighting chance to escape.

 

On a train, you are captive. Nowhere to go. Either comply or fight.

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Response to EL34x4 (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 03:46 PM

58. Fight...

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Response to HoneyBadger (Reply #8)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 05:22 PM

13. Nothing new in Philly

 

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/08/12/philadelphia.flash.mob.violence/

Things spiraled out of control in a flash when, according to Guendelsberger, the group of nearly 40 teens chased them down a nearby alley. The teens began punching her male friends in the head to knock them over and then kicked them once they were down on the ground.

Guendelsberger's boyfriend was left with a sneaker imprint on his forehead, she said. At one point someone tried to take her bag, and she was punched in the face, knocking her over.

Her tibia was snapped in half, and there was a crack in the bone behind her kneecap. It is being held together with screws.

"It was nuts," she said, gazing at her right leg inside a metal brace elevated on a kitchen chair. "We got off comparatively easy. It was awful, but nobody had anything permanent happen to them."

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Response to EL34x4 (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 04:46 PM

2. Minors? MINORS?!?!?! They're fucking train-robbers!!!

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Response to Iggo (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 04:47 PM

3. I think they'll need protection from their parents, once the parents find out. NT

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:41 PM

29. My guess is Dad's absent, and Mom may have other priorities. nt

 

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Response to Iggo (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 05:08 PM

10. But they're just children.

They're brains are still developing. It's not their fault. They're not responsible.

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #10)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 12:18 AM

39. Their brains are still developing

 

What would you expect the punishment to be for something like this?

There should certainly be something but at the same time surely you are not suggesting that they should be treated as adults.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #39)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 08:22 AM

48. If violence was involved then yes, they should be treated as adults.

time to spread the message that violence will not be tolerated in America.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #48)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 12:53 PM

52. Trump could not have said it better.

Surely a civilized, moral, thinking society can hold minors accountable while recognizing that minors do not have the same cognitive, mental or emotional development of adults. Do you not agree that minors are too immature to have the right to vote?

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Response to PdxSean (Reply #52)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 01:25 PM

56. Then lock up young violent offenders in dedicated facilities

that cater towards their development into law abiding adults while protecting society from their violent ways. No automatic release from the juvenile system when they hit 18 - no locking up a 16 year for two years for a crime that would put a 18 year old in jail for 10.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #39)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 12:55 PM

53. If my brother or I were involved in something like this I would want to be in jail.

The alternative would be dealing with my Dad! Jail would be a much better option.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #39)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 03:49 PM

59. Legally there might be a distinction for a young teen...

... but in the moment I don't expect anyone to hold back in self defense.

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Response to EL34x4 (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 04:50 PM

4. My first reaction as simple; that's really fucked up.

 

2nd reaction is that this could become more commonplace.

3rd reaction is why are these kids screwing with mostly their own people?

4th reaction is I'm glad the paying riders weren't all with CCWs..

5th reaction is even an 8 yr old knows the difference between right and wrong. Lock'em up.

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Response to vkkv (Reply #4)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 04:53 PM

5. My first reaction was...

 

...On Saturday night, 40-60 juveniles commandeered a train in San Francisco, robbed and beat the passengers, and only now are we hearing about this?

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Response to EL34x4 (Reply #5)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:16 PM

27. As pointed out,

No guns involved, mostly "their own people" so 'meh, inner-city crime'; MSM and the vast majority of the country ignores it.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #27)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 04:25 AM

43. Head of nail greeted by hammer.


Didn't bleed (much) so it didn't lead. If three perps would have shot some passengers and committed robbery it would have made the news earlier.

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Response to vkkv (Reply #4)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 04:54 PM

7. Dunno about 4. This is exactly the kind of scenario CCW advocates put out there

 

to justify such measures.


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Response to vkkv (Reply #4)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 06:03 PM

18. Nothing will happen, Oakland won't pay for it and the DA will refuse to prosecute

BART trains, especially around Oakland, don't have that many cameras to begin with so there won't be much evidence. And it'll probably happen again, BART is afraid of policing the Oakland area stations due to the Oskar Grant incident.

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Response to vkkv (Reply #4)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:08 PM

22. Come on, "their own people"?? So the train was full of criminals? No, NOT their people.

 

The train was full of actual working people
And if your #2 is correct, then the end result will be #4.

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Response to 7962 (Reply #22)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:49 PM

33. By "their own people' - clearly I meant friends' families, locals, workers who commute on BART

 

instead of driving a plush car to a parking space.

OK, I'll bite. I wasn't picturing the racism that you've imagined nor was I calling their families "criminal".

Are you sure that none of your friends or family or friends' families ("your people" have driven drunk on occasion, run a stop light, supplied alcohol to a minor, stolen anything, taken illegal drugs??

No? Okay, than 'your people' are not criminals. Got it.


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Response to vkkv (Reply #33)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:46 PM

37. No, THEY are criminals, so their people, being like them, would also be criminals

 

As you said, the people on that train were most likely regular working folk & not like them at all, unless by simply living in the same area makes you the same.
criminals usually do their crimes locally
And WHAT racism? I saw no mention of race in the story. I didnt see a video, so how would i know what the race is of these fools?

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Response to 7962 (Reply #37)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 01:14 AM

41. My mistake, from experience I should know there is no reasoning with

 

you.

You use the word "criminal" only on those who do not break the law the same way as your family or friends even though they are likely breaking the law.

Know any pot smokers? Any pot smokers in your family? Yes, they are "criminals", too. Okay, they aren't Palestinian "terrorists" fighting to get back land that was stolen from them, but they are still criminals in the eye of the law.

The dirt-bag teenagers who robbed from their own working-class people are the lowest of the low and should be prosecuted, not unlike our gov't reps who steal from us while claiming to be one of us.

Now please, just stop, I'm asking you to PLEASE go away.

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Response to vkkv (Reply #41)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 06:35 AM

47. YOU "go away" with the weak comparisons. You equate a speeder & a strong arm thief?

 

I guess you feel the same way about loading prisons with non violent criminals, right?
The bricklayer here illegally and the MS 13 member here illegally? I mean, theyre ALL criminals right? All deserve punishment!
I use "criminal" because its an accurate descriptor of these fools, not as a derogatory term. And it is accurate. Its really ver simple. You dont have to look for some darker meaning other than what the news says it is.

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Response to 7962 (Reply #47)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 12:13 PM

49. Speed is the leading cause of automobile deaths by a LONG shot

 


- and since there are 40k traffic deaths every year and that speeding is the #1 killer in traffic deaths
= speeding can be a criminal act.

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Response to vkkv (Reply #49)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 02:26 PM

57. Actually alcohol is the leading cause in traffic fatalities.

According to NHTSA Traffic Safety Facts 2002, driving under the influence of alcohol is the third leading cause of motor vehicle crashes in the U.S., and is the number one cause of traffic fatalities. Also in 2002, alcohol was involved in 41% of fatal crashes in the U.S., and in six percent of all crashes.

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Response to 7962 (Reply #37)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 04:00 PM

60. That's not logical. Every "people" has

both criminals and people who don't commit crimes.

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Response to vkkv (Reply #4)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 12:38 PM

51. Their own people?

Really.

It might take only one CCW to persuade others that robbery is not an appropriate activity.

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Response to EL34x4 (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 04:53 PM

6. put their faces out there, the public has a right to know who these violent predators are

 

so they can (a) avoid them out of safety and (b) alert law enforcement to their whereabouts.

F@ck that "they're minors so we need to protect their pwecious widdle pwivacy" nonsense.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #6)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 05:08 PM

11. more like cya (avoiding lawy suits)

due to possible law suits due to privacy legal issues of minors.

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Response to EL34x4 (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 05:26 PM

14. I'm suprised we've not heard from the CWP crowd.

You know, shoot the first one or two and the rest will leave..............
cwp = concealed weapon permit

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Response to Dyedinthewoolliberal (Reply #14)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 05:35 PM

15. It's illegal in California

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Response to ansible (Reply #15)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 05:52 PM

16. Good.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #16)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:45 PM

30. Yeah, sure worked out well here...

 

Why should a victim of crime be able to defend themselves from potentially fatal beatings?



-app

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Response to appal_jack (Reply #30)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:17 PM

36. Nobody got shot. Nobody died.

I know that gives gunfondlers a sad, but I call that a good day.

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Response to appal_jack (Reply #30)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 04:43 AM

46. I wouldn't expect to see this sort of group mayhem occur in a state that grants the right of defense

to their citizens. States like Oregon and Washington for example -- that allowed concealed carry years before the "gunz happy" states of Texas and Arizona.

Of course if one of these punks would have been shot.......scattering the rest.......The Controllers would have a sad.

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Response to ansible (Reply #15)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:55 PM

34. Actually, that is not correct.

 


Concealed carry weapons are a county issue. Sheriff Depts issue them within their own jurisdiction. Some counties will honor another county's permit, some won't

You may be thinking of "open carry".

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Response to vkkv (Reply #34)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 04:28 AM

44. CCW's in CA are frequently granted in rural areas.


Densely populated urban areas? Nope. Unless of course you're a celebrity or are connected. May issue in CA is in practice corrupt issue.

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Response to Dyedinthewoolliberal (Reply #14)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:49 PM

38. Plenty of videos out there show thats exactly what happens most of the time

 

In this case I bet it would have been a stampede thru the door

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Response to 7962 (Reply #38)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 04:30 AM

45. Truth.


Youtube is loaded with examples where the cowardly criminals scatter the moment they're on the receiving end of violence.

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Response to EL34x4 (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 06:02 PM

17. Were they all wearing Raiders gear?

I bet

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Response to Baclava (Reply #17)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 06:22 PM

19. What is wrong with the Raiders?

 

Aren't the 49ers the home team?

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Response to HoneyBadger (Reply #19)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 06:38 PM

20. Show us the videos and I won't have to speculate.

"The agency...is in the midst of installing surveillance cameras in train cars after The Chronicle reported that most of the existing cameras were decoys."


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Response to Baclava (Reply #20)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:06 PM

21. Decoys?? How much does a decent surveillance camera cost?

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Response to Baclava (Reply #20)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:09 PM

23. And now EVERYONE knows it. genius nt

 

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Response to 7962 (Reply #23)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:12 PM

25. Well, there's still Youtube, surely the perps posted them on there by now

Cell phones can be tracked, right?

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Response to HoneyBadger (Reply #19)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:11 PM

24. I see you're unfamiliar with the Raider Nation archetype. nt

 

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Response to Codeine (Reply #24)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:13 PM

26. As a Steelers fan I take my shots when I get them n/t

Viva Las Vegas!

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Response to Baclava (Reply #26)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 12:21 AM

40. Ouch

 

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Response to Codeine (Reply #24)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 01:14 PM

55. And yet ... Raiders actual team is the only one in the league w/zero arrests last 3 years ...

#1 team, IIRC, in player arrests over past 3 years?

The 49er's.

And just because people wear Raiders gear, as you should be aware ... doesn't mean they're actual Raider fans ... the Coliseum BART station (and the Coliseum, of course) is on the outskirts of a very rough and downtrodden neighborhood.

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Response to EL34x4 (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:29 PM

28. PUre scum nt

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Response to EL34x4 (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:50 PM

31. Wtf? Not releasing video cause they "appear" to be minors?

So let's pre-coddle the scum before we know their actual ages.

Release the video so they can be caught. Remove it based on actual age proof if need be.

And if the minors and their parents don't like their photos in the media, too fucking bad. Next time don't rob trains.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #31)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 04:40 PM

64. Exactly...

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Response to EL34x4 (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:29 PM

32. No sympathy for these punks

And a lot of them are going to find out that "Find my phone" apps are NOT their friends.

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Response to EL34x4 (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:09 PM

35. 40-60??? Pfft ! try 200-300 here. Although this was a few years ago and wilding in the streets

more than outright train robbery
Punching and jumping on people shopping in a high end area were more prominent than robbery but that occurred plenty too and all are crimes!
Planned all on social media , cops got wise to it since, so I haven't heard recent years of any real big wildings, but about 20 or 30 teens attacked around university of Chicago last summer I recall.

Edit
Looked it up it was 2013 when those big mobs went downtown
Bad summer for that in Chicago
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/03/30/breaking-chicago-police-swarm-mag-mile-wilding-scene/

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Response to EL34x4 (Original post)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 12:30 PM

50. So what would happen if 2-3 got shot during the crime?

I do not know Cali. law.

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Response to oneshooter (Reply #50)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 01:10 PM

54. A city like San Fran isn't going to let just ANYONE

legally carry a firearm. The only people allowed to carry one are the police. So unless a cop happens to be there on the train when something like this happens, the people are either going to have to comply with being robbed by 40-50 kids, or fight them bare handed. Lots of people are going to get hurt.

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Response to christx30 (Reply #54)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 04:02 PM

61. That's why there's a growing push for a national CCW law.

 

Backed by the NRA and Republicans, "national concealed carry" means that someone with a CCW license issued from, say, Mississippi will be able to carry a concealed firearm in San Francisco.

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Response to christx30 (Reply #54)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 04:39 PM

63. ...or the wealthy and connected.

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Response to christx30 (Reply #54)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 06:11 PM

67. San Francisco has no choice in whether or not to hoinor CCW permits

That decision is made at the state level, California only allows people with permits from California to carry, others state's permits are not allowed, so anyone with a CCW permit approved by a county sheriff and issued by the state can carry in San Francisco.

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Response to oneshooter (Reply #50)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 04:26 PM

62. Here's the Jury Instruction

California is, by judicial precedent, a stand your ground state. There is no duty to retreat. Here's the applicable jury instruction:

505. Justifiable Homicide: Self-Defense or Defense of Another
The defendant is not guilty of (murder/ [or] manslaughter/ attempted murder/ [or] attempted voluntary manslaughter) if (he/she) was justified in (killing/attempting to kill) someone in (self-defense/ [or] defense of another). The defendant acted in lawful (self-defense/ [or] defense of another) if:
1. The defendant reasonably believed that (he/she/ [or] someone else/ [or] <insert name or description of third party> )
was in imminent danger of being killed or suffering great bodily injury [or was in imminent danger of being (raped/maimed/robbed/ <insert other forcible and atrocious crime>];
2. The defendant reasonably believed that the immediate use of deadly force was necessary to defend against that danger;
AND
3. The defendant used no more force than was reasonably necessary to defend against that danger.

Belief in future harm is not sufficient, no matter how great or how likely the harm is believed to be. The defendant must have believed there was imminent danger of death or great bodily injury to (himself/herself/ [or] someone else). Defendant’s belief must have been reasonable and (he/she) must have acted only because of that belief. The defendant is only entitled to use that amount of force that a reasonable person would believe is necessary in the same situation. If the defendant used more force than was reasonable, the [attempted] killing was not justified.

When deciding whether the defendant’s beliefs were reasonable, consider all the circumstances as they were known to and appeared to the defendant and consider what a reasonable person in a similar situation with similar knowledge would have believed. If the defendant’s beliefs were reasonable, the danger does not need to have actually existed.

(The defendant’s belief that (he/she/ [or] someone else) was threatened may be reasonable even if (he/she) relied on information that was not true. However, the defendant must actually and reasonably have believed that the information was true.)

(If you find that <insert name of decedent/victim> threatened or harmed the defendant [or others] in the past, you may
consider that information in deciding whether the defendant’s conduct and beliefs were reasonable.)

(If you find that the defendant knew that <insert name of decedent/victim> had threatened or harmed others in the past, you may consider that information in deciding whether the defendant’s conduct and beliefs were reasonable.)

(Someone who has been threatened or harmed by a person in the past, is justified in acting more quickly or taking greater self-defense measures against that person.)

(If you find that the defendant received a threat from someone else that (he/she) reasonably associated with <insert name of decedent/victim>, you may consider that threat in deciding whether the defendant was justified in acting in (self-defense/ [or] defense of another).)

(A defendant is not required to retreat. He or she is entitled to stand his or her ground and defend himself or herself and, if reasonably necessary, to pursue an assailant until the danger of (death/great bodily injury/ <insert forcible and atrocious crime> ) has passed. This is so even if safety could have been achieved by retreating.)

(Great bodily injury means significant or substantial physical injury. It is an injury that is greater than minor or moderate harm.)

The People have the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the [attempted] killing was not justified. If the People have not met this burden, you must find the defendant not guilty of (murder/ [or] manslaughter/ attempted murder/ [or] attempted voluntary manslaughter)

California is a may issue state and the issuance of concealed carry permits is decided by the county sheriffs' office. Each county has its own rules. Rural counties such as Ventura county state that general self-defense meets the requirement of good cause. Other counties, such as Los Angeles (and i'm pretty sure SF and Alameda County) require an a more specific reason for good cause.




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Response to EL34x4 (Original post)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 05:23 PM

65. They said they would circulate the video to the schools, etc. So they aren't withholding it entirely

Just from the general public.

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Response to Yo_Mama (Reply #65)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 05:49 PM

66. What a crock... These "youths" commandeered a train, beat and robbed passengers...

 

...That alone is probably a serious federal offense. And yet BART officials are treating this brazen attack as though these are nothing but youthful indiscretions, like TP'ing a house or egging some cars.

Great. They're going to show the footage to some schools. That ought to make everyone rest easy.

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