Judge: Muslim suspect in deadly US fort rampage could be forcibly shaved before trial

[TouchOfGray]

Source: MontrealGazette.com

FORT HOOD, Texas - A U.S. Army psychiatrist and Muslim charged with killing 13 people in a shooting rampage at a Texas military base will be forcibly shaved if he doesn't remove his beard himself, a judge said Wednesday.

Maj. Nidal Hasan's beard violates Army regulations, but he said it is an expression of his faith.

The judge, Col. Gregory Gross, held Hasan in contempt of court for keeping the beard and fined him $1,000. Fort Hood spokesman Chris Haug said Gross gave Hasan the choice to shave or be forcibly shaved before his court-martial begins Aug. 20.

Hasan, 41, is charged with 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted premeditated murder in the November 2009 shootings at Fort Hood. He faces the death penalty if convicted.

Until last month, he had been clean-shaven every time he attended court.



Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/fashion-beauty/Judge+Suspect+fort+rampage+must+shave+beard+before+trial+forcibly/6988309/story.html

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He is still getting paid by the Army and is receiving medical care so Lose The Beard Hasan!

Your religious beliefs mean nothing to me now.

[leveymg]

2. This forcible shaving is not only petty, but makes the prosecution look religiously motivated

Considering the seriousness of the charges and the nature of the alleged crime, and the amount of worldwide attention this trial has received, is that really the message we want to send - The US Army forcibly shaves the beards of devout Muslims - can't the military wave its own regulations, just for once?

[elleng]

3. I agree 100%.

Petty and foolish.

[jberryhill]

4. Quite the opposite

He is being court martialed and the jury will consist of officers.

If his facial hair is not regulation, that would certainly be noticed, would be prejudicial to his own defense, and present grounds for appeal.

[Doremus]

21. Good point. nt

[treestar]

85. True. And he joined the military

and of his own free will.

[cstanleytech]

5. Could they? Probably.

Will they? I doubt it.

[leveymg]

8. The US Army issued a waiver to a Sikh Officer a few years ago. They can, if they want to.

First Sikh in decades graduates at US Army officer school

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?176424-First-Sikh-in-decades-graduates-at-US-Army-officer-school

SAN ANTONIO: Amid lines of soldiers, one after the other in standard-issue fatigues and combat boots, was one in a turban and full beard on Monday -- the first Sikh in a generation allowed to complete US Army officer basic training without sacrificing the articles of his faith.

Capt. Tejdeep Singh Rattan, a 31-year-old dentist, graduated on Monday at Fort Sam Houston after the Army made an exemption to a uniform policy that has effectively prevented Sikhs from enlisting since 1984.

``I'm feeling very humbled. I'm a soldier,'' he said, grinning after the ceremony as other members of the Sikh community milled about nearby. ``This has been my dream.''

Rattan had to get a waiver from the Army to be allowed to serve without sacrificing the unshorn hair mandated by his faith. An immigrant from India who arrived in New York as a teenager, Rattan said it was important for him to serve a country that has given him so many opportunities.

The Army in 1984 eliminated an exemption that had previously allowed Sikhs to maintain their articles of faith while serving, but officials can issue individual waivers to the uniform policy after considering the effects on safety and discipline, said Army spokesman George Wright. Only a handful of such individual religious exemptions are ever granted.

[samsingh]

17. the Sikh did not commit mass murder

[TouchOfGray]

24. And do you really think that Hasan has gone to his commanding officer

Last edited Wed Jul 25, 2012, 06:58 PM - Edit history (1)

and applied for a beard waiver?

I wonder if he got a waiver from the regulation against gunning down 42 of his fellow soldiers?

[Confusious]

30. The Sikh asked first probably

This guy went without for years, now he wants a beard.

right.

[cstanleytech]

32. So? I said they probably could I didn't they "couldn't".

[Codeine]

39. There's a difference between a guy who requests a waiver in order to serve

and an asshole mass-murderer who demands it.

[MADem]

53. Sikhs are not allowed to cut their hair ever--as an expression of faith.

There is no such rule in Islam.

The beard thing is "custom" amongst some people with a decidedly fundy bent--it is not a mandate of the faith, not by a long shot.

That is the difference, here.

[happyslug]

76. Please note, the ARMY has special rules as to Sikhs

The rule is simple, if enlisted, must shave his beard, but if drafted can keep his beard. Yes I know the US has NOT had a draft since the early 1970s, but that is the rule to this day. Thus this DENTIST was given a waiver so he can serve in the medical corps.

[TouchOfGray]

6. So it's OK to the rest of the world for a "devout Muslim" to go on a murderous rampage

but it would make the United States look bad in the eyes of the Muslim world if he is made to follow regulations?

[leveymg]

10. No matter. We should avoid the appearance of religious persecution or bias.

We're supposed to be in the right in this matter. Correct? The US should take every reasonable measure to avoid the wrong impression.

[jberryhill]

29. This is not a civilian trial

[LiberalLoner]

37. This. He is still a soldier at this point.

[Confusious]

31. His religion is not on trial

Last edited Wed Jul 25, 2012, 08:18 PM - Edit history (1)

his trial is about killing people.

If he was so religious, he would have had the beard before.

He only did it after the crime.

In my mind, he's thumbing his nose at the court.

So screw him.

[obamanut2012]

46. He is a soldier, not a civilian

He HAS to abide by military regs. No beard.

[4th law of robotics]

54. He volunteered for the military

that comes with certain obligations.

You can't use religion to ignore the rules when in the armed services.

Try signing up then saying that your religion doesn't allow you to use violence. See what that gets you.

[LanternWaste]

65. I don't think tolerance of the one implicitly expresses tolerance for the other...

I don't think tolerance of the one (beard) implicitly expresses tolerance for the other (murderous rampage).

What precisely lead you to believe that...?

[Robb]

7. He's a devout asshole.

And any religious people who think what happened was OK aren't going to be persuaded one way or another by the presence or absence of a beard.

[Control-Z]

15. Was he a devout Muslim with a beard before he went on his rampage? n/t

[4th law of robotics]

55. Nope

well maybe devout but he didn't have a beard.

Which just reveals this as a petty and childish display on his part.

[samsingh]

18. i'm with the military on this one

[samsingh]

20. i hope the death penalty applies in this case

[kestrel91316]

23. I disagree. He is still in the military so he can damned well follow the rules.

[gopiscrap]

28. My thought exactly sounds like revenge and power to me

most prosecutors are arrogant assholes and like to push their weight around!

[obamanut2012]

45. It is against military regulations

He is still a member of the military.

[MADem]

52. He has a US Army commission, and he's being paid commensurate with his rank.

The regulations prohibit facial hair, and there are reasons for it--you can't wear a gas mask with a beard.

Exceptions are made for folliculitis, but even then the sufferer is required to keep the beard very short and clipped, and the condition is monitored by a medical professional. There is never an exception for the "mountain man" look.

Devout Muslims know the rules before they join--and anyway, Islam doesn't demand that people wear beards as a display of faith. That's as absurd as suggesting that people who mix fabrics should be smited, because the Bible tells us so. Curses on those who wear a cotton polyester blend!

This is all about good order and discipline, and military regs. Should we keep paying him his salary and let him show up in a Hawaiian shirt and flip flops, too?

[bobthedrummer]

69. The personal grooming and men's fragrance lobby are in the wings of this mental health provider's

future.

[littlewolf]

83. disagree .. he is being required to adhere

to military grooming regs.
he is still active duty and
is required to act accordingly

[Enrique]

9. maybe Romney could do it

does he still have his forcible haircut scissors?

[Stargazer09]

11. This jerk had no problem shaving...

...during his military career. He's only doing this to delay his trial AGAIN. He's too cowardly to face the court and accept punishment for his crimes.

A good friend of mine lost her brother that day.

[leftynyc]

50. I'm so sorry for you and your friend's loss

and I'm in 100% agreeement with you. Shave him and then try him. I don't support the death penalty but wont shed one tear over this one.

[Stargazer09]

78. Thank you

He ruined so many lives that day. My friend's marriage failed in part because of the stress this created. I know that one of the soldiers who survived is living with horrific brain injuries, and it's heartbreaking to read about all of his struggles.

I'm not a big fan of the death penalty, but this is one person who definitely deserves it. There is no doubt whatsoever that he is guilty of his crimes, and all he's doing is trying to delay the inevitable.

[Terrillary]

12. He lost all his freedoms the day he pulled the trigger.

I believe the day he pulled the trigger and killed randomly he lost all freedom and that should include the freedom of religion.

[samsingh]

19. agreed

i 100% agree with you.

[cstanleytech]

33. No, he didnt lose them then and he doesnt until hes convicted.

I'm not arguing in his favor for the beard though because when he joined the military and took the oath it clearly wasnts an issue for him then to go without a beard so there isnt imo any legit reason for him to ask now for an exemption.

[IndyJones]

86. Sure he did. He's not walking around free. He's being told what to do and when to do it.

Sure looks like he's lost his freedoms to me. He voluntarily joined the military so he can live by the rules he agreed to when he joined. He's no one special to be exempt.

[leveymg]

41. This isn't about his freedoms. It's about perceptions (right or wrong) that this is about religion.

By forcibly shaving him, we feed and reinforce the perception held by many people around the world that this trial is somehow related to his Muslim religion. It isn't, but that doesn't matter and the issue at stake isn't the freedoms of the accused.

Bottom line, it is not in the interest of the United States to feed perceptions, no matter how foolish or irrational, that incite religious hostility against us.

[leftynyc]

51. If the rest of the world

is going to focus on this rather than the fact he gunned down his fellow soldiers, fuck them. He never had a beard before so this whole thing is based on bullshit.

[4th law of robotics]

56. He didn't have a problem shaving before this

and if people are going to hate us over this they were going to hate us anyway.

I'm sick of being told we can't adhere to our own laws because someone somewhere might dislike us. It's going to happen. We should act appropriately and let people love or hate or ignore us as they will.

[leveymg]

59. We would grant an exception for our own reasons, not his.

There are things more important than regulations. That's why there are exceptions made. This is one of those occasions - an exception should be made not because of the sincerity of his beliefs (or the absence of them), but instead to avoid even the perception that this trial is about anything other than prosecution for murder. If it avoids the appearance of unfairness, intolerance, or religious bias, then make an exception.

[4th law of robotics]

60. Given that he killed a large number of his comrades in cold-blood and entirely

without cause I don't think *we* are the ones that need to make it appear as if this wasn't about religion.

[leveymg]

61. The political Islam aspect of the crime is why we need to avoid appearance of discrimination,

bias, or mistreatment on account of religion. The murders were not "without cause," at least in the defendant's mind.

[4th law of robotics]

62. How is it discrimination to hold him to the exact same standard we'd hold anyone else to

regardless of race, religion, gender, political orientation, etc?

He is not being given special treatment (either better or worse) because of his religion. How does that possibly come across as discrimination?

Allowing him to break the rules because of his religion however would be a case of discrimination as it would treat all non-muslims differently.

[leveymg]

64. Appearance of mistreatment or unjust treatment is the thing to be avoided.

To a lot of people, forcefully shaving someone is a form of abuse or humiliation. I'm not defending that perception, just noting it.

The reality of discrimination isn't the issue - I'm saying, just don't hand them anything that can be misconstrued, willfully or just because of their own ignorance and prejudices, to appear to look like persecution of or prejudice against the defendant.

[riderinthestorm]

67. Letting him keep the beard will prejudice his jury. Its not standard military grooming

Its making a religious political statement and his fellow soldiers will certainly notice it since its against military regs, and it will prejudice his chances. THAT'S far more important - that WE give him the best shot at a fair trial.

He's still in the military. Giving in to his religious demands WILL make this trial about Islam which should be avoided. Those who would make a stink over Hassan being clean shaven will find other ways to catapult the propaganda about his trial anyway.

[leveymg]

70. I really doubt that's adequate grounds to overturn a conviction. Really, really doubt it.

Why hand those who would make a stink anything more than what they already think they have? Particularly, since exceptions to the same Army regulation have been made in the past?

[riderinthestorm]

72. A beard is not a religious requirement in Islam just like the burqa

its a cultural affectation only. Sikh's however actually DO have religious compulsion on the beard/hair issue and the ONE exception to the military's rule got that waiver before he joined the military.

Hassan served in the military for a very, very long time observing the military's protocols on grooming and only NOW wants to adopt a cultural affectation that would only serve to alienate the very folks who will be judging him.

I don't think enforcing military rules against this man will hand the crazies anything that much bigger than some of the stuff we've already done (that's much worse).

[4th law of robotics]

74. The kind of people who would declare jihad

over the US treating Muslims exactly as they treat everyone else rather than giving them special dispensation would find a reason to declare jihad over anything.

[riderinthestorm]

63. If we let him keep the beard then it WOULD be about religion

The political Islamic implications would be blatantly obvious to his fellow soldiers who are going to judge him. Keeping the beard would show his fellow soldiers AND the world that this was about his religious beliefs and not about his crime solely.

In fact, I'd say that having the beard would jeopardize his chances of getting a fair trial from his fellow soldiers. That alone would be a disgrace. He needs every opportunity to receive a fair trial and going in appearing as a soldier would be one of the steps the Army can do to make sure that happens.

[uppityperson]

44. I disagree with that. However, as he is military, that is a big loss of being able to do what you

want. Including wearing a beard.

But no. People who kill random people don't lose ass their freedoms.

[Old Troop]

13. Several things come to mind...

First, the good major observed Army grooming regulations throughout his career to the day of his horrible act. Therefore he either didn't feel that that tenet of his faith was unalterable or it was done to ensure that he didn't stand out physically before he committed the murders. Regardless, he was comfortable enough with being clean shaven that it wasn't an issue until now.
Second, he remains a serving officer in the Army, subject to the rules and regulations that apply to all officers who haven't requested a waiver to Army grooming standards. He has not requested a waiver, he has demanded recognition of a fait accompli.
Third, Islamic dominated countries require adherence to many of their customs and regulations by westerners living or traveling in those countries. For instance, western woman are not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia and must be accompanied by a male in the souks or malls.
I think that the Army has every right to insist that this man continue to observe the standards that he accepted when he swore his oath.

[Ikonoklast]

14. Hypocrite.

F this asshat and his beard.

[samsingh]

16. not shooting innocent people is something i believe in

[slackmaster]

22. His ass belongs to the Army until he's discharged or executed

He can dress and groom himself as the Army tells him to.

[IndyJones]

87. Yep!

[msongs]

25. hire Mitt Romney to attack the guy with scissors, and throw him to the ground for shave nt

[spooky3]

26. good one!

[gregoire]

27. Sad to see such a religious bigot...

is a judge.

[msanthrope]

35. The judge is a religious bigot? No--the judge is enforcing the same rules every other

defendant is required to follow.

[PavePusher]

36. Nothing to do with military regulations? Really? n/t

[NYC Liberal]

66. Making everyone abide by the same rules is bigotry?

That's a new one.

[riderinthestorm]

68. A common slam by those who believe curbing any religious or cultural expression

is verboten. Even critiquing religious dogma is meet with the same slam. Its become very common on DU especially - the "bigot" label is losing any credibility as applied on this site anymore.

[NYC Liberal]

73. Yes, we can call out all the bigotry & batshit ideas

in the world. But call them a religion and suddenly those very same beliefs must be immune from any criticism.

[4th law of robotics]

75. The other day I tried to carry my 15 ft stainless steel cross through airport security

you won't believe what those bigots said to me.

[alphafemale]

34. A religious freak who slaughtered innocent people claiming to be a victim

Because he has to adhere to the protocol of the service he volunteered to join.

Yeah.

That's really a tough call on what side to come down on.

[PavePusher]

38. Difficult logic for some folks here, apparently. n/t

[cthulu2016]

40. I thought he was quadriplegic (???)

I guess he has regained enough use of his arms to shave? Is that right?

[msanthrope]

58. Paraplegic. nt

[procon]

42. Help... Where am I???

Being a liberal, I tend to avoid plunging down the same vitriolic rabbit holes used by the rightwing opposition. My knee-jerking days are long gone, so when I read that his attorneys explained this was in observance of Ramadan which would end just before the court-martial starts, I have a hard time believing that a razor blade is the newest tool of the justice system in this country.


I have to believe that we are better than this... or I am become like them.

[rollin74]

43. I agree with the judge

fuck this clown and his beard

[truthisfreedom]

47. He chose to join a cult.

The Army has rules and regulations. His religion is superseded.

[mwrguy]

48. This is petty,mean spirited bigotry

Then again it's a military tribunal.

[gopiscrap]

49. I agree with you and it should not happen....

just think what might happen to one our soldiers in Afghanistan or some other nation in retaliation for petty stuff like this!

[4th law of robotics]

57. He didn't have any trouble shaving before

when he was planning the attack and shooting his comrades he was clean shaven.

Where did this conversion come from if he wasn't a devout muslim while shouting "allahu akbar"?

My religion says that in court I don't have to wear any clothes. How respectful do you think the courts would be of that provision?

[PavePusher]

77. And what you just said wasn't?

Fucking seriously?

Go take a flying leap.

USAF, AD

[Ruby the Liberal]

84. He knew the rules when he signed up and allowed

the military to foot the bills for his college and PhD work. His current "convenient" religious beliefs mean nothing - the man is still an officer in the armed forces. He was clean shaven when the attacks took place and if they say he will be clean shaven for the trial, then it is what it is.

[arely staircase]

71. probably the greatest injustice in the world today

[JCMach1]

79. sorry but he is military

And under military justice. That was a choice he made long before the beard.

On another note. The beard is NOT halal in the manner he has it.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

80. Headline is designed for shock value

"Muslim suspect in deadly US fort rampage could be forcibly shaved"

could have been worded

"U.S. Army Major suspect in deadly US fort rampage could be forcibly shaved"

Most soldiers are expected to shave. Failure can result in many pushups, followed by shaving.

I doubt if the major had a beard through his Army career.

[may3rd]

81. not much difference between him and the colorado joker

but...

only their hair dressers know for sure

[ileus]

82. His faith comes behind his duty. His body is Uncle Sams...