Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 04:47 AM Jun 2017

Bill Maher Uses Racial Slur on Real Time

Source: The New York Times

The HBO late-night host Bill Maher drew quick and widespread condemnation on Friday night for using a racial epithet in an interview with Senator Ben Sasse, Republican of Nebraska.

...

The epithet was not bleeped out when the episode was rebroadcast at midnight.

On social media, Mr. Maher’s remarks were criticized by viewers across the political spectrum.

DeRay Mckesson, a prominent activist for the Black Lives Matter movement, wrote on his Twitter account: “But really, @BillMaher has got to go. There are no explanations that make this acceptable.”

Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/03/arts/television/bill-maher-n-word.html?_r=0



--------------
A shockingly offensive choice of language from Maher. We cannot support this kind of racist rhetoric from people who claim to be our allies.
157 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Bill Maher Uses Racial Slur on Real Time (Original Post) Gravitycollapse Jun 2017 OP
I Watched the Show Doug the Dem Jun 2017 #1
For reasons of great historical importance, white people cannot use the n-word. Gravitycollapse Jun 2017 #2
It would be better if no one used it, and just consign it to the OnDoutside Jun 2017 #5
It's not up to white America to dictate what black Americans do with the n-word. Gravitycollapse Jun 2017 #7
You're arguing a different point. Black America should have OnDoutside Jun 2017 #12
by white people? Blacks are going to tell them not to use it and then they wont? lunasun Jun 2017 #141
Don't they already tell them ? OnDoutside Jun 2017 #151
I honestly don't even listen to most of today's comics Plucketeer Jun 2017 #89
Wrong. Blacks learned to 'own' the 'n' word; women, 'cunt' duhneece Jun 2017 #22
funny story. Someone needs to figure out an equally patronizing come back to the N word yurbud Jun 2017 #137
never going to happen rtracey Jun 2017 #117
Okay, I'll say it Roy Rolling Jun 2017 #8
People have the right to be offended, just as you have the right to not be offended. Gravitycollapse Jun 2017 #9
I said I was offended, the use is offensive in today's culture Roy Rolling Jun 2017 #13
Well said. nt canetoad Jun 2017 #32
Listen to which members of the group? treestar Jun 2017 #139
100% agree with you, Roy. OnDoutside Jun 2017 #14
The N-word... TheDebbieDee Jun 2017 #49
Totally agree.. duhneece Jun 2017 #21
Unfortunately, the use of this word by AAs perpetuates it. Chemisse Jun 2017 #40
I would not go that far. lancelyons Jun 2017 #63
I've heard a lot of white people use it in ways that weren't derogatory. Igel Jun 2017 #84
That may be the way things are, but frankly no one should use the n-word, or other ethnic or still_one Jun 2017 #93
Then maybe it should never be used. bitterross Jun 2017 #100
I don't entirely agree. cab67 Jun 2017 #113
I agree with your comments totally bitterross Jun 2017 #125
Exactly! I also watched. Duppers Jun 2017 #10
Or..... Doug the Dem Jun 2017 #17
Bill's half jewish and he hates all religion MattP Jun 2017 #54
I watched the segment. It's NOT ok for white people to make a joke pnwmom Jun 2017 #24
At least not until reparations have been made and paid for all the stolen KingCharlemagne Jun 2017 #65
Thank you! Paka Jun 2017 #37
A Racial Slur LovingA2andMI Jun 2017 #69
The question is: Who replaces him? christx30 Jun 2017 #80
"conservative comedian"? Ligyron Jun 2017 #82
That's not our issue... LovingA2andMI Jun 2017 #154
2018 and 2020 is everyone's issue. christx30 Jun 2017 #156
Maher is a Comedian..... LovingA2andMI Jun 2017 #157
There's no excuse for it. Especially not Trumps "just joking" nonsense. bettyellen Jun 2017 #90
And yet, when he called a gay man a "faggot"... Behind the Aegis Jun 2017 #3
I saw some anger when it happened but no mainstream coverage. Gravitycollapse Jun 2017 #6
"This latest one is simply going to be his most public." Behind the Aegis Jun 2017 #15
Not from me. n/t pnwmom Jun 2017 #28
I didn't hear about this..... LeftInTX Jun 2017 #79
When you use it in private convo, it can slip out other times Pluvious Jun 2017 #106
They're different levels of taboo. Igel Jun 2017 #86
I just KNEW that word was going to blow up !!! I suspect OnDoutside Jun 2017 #4
My eyebrows went up when he said that yuiyoshida Jun 2017 #11
Hearing that it seems he did use the "a" at the end instead of the "er" 7962 Jun 2017 #60
??? padah513 Jun 2017 #72
No, in another article the distinction was made a big deal. I Shouldve mentioned that. 7962 Jun 2017 #98
That's often a meaningless distinction. Igel Jun 2017 #92
Bill is... Mike Nelson Jun 2017 #16
Bill Maher dates black women, almost exclusively. Duppers Jun 2017 #19
Wooooow. A new take on "I have a lot of black friends." Gravitycollapse Jun 2017 #20
There can be a difference between fetishism and equality in romantic interests. politicat Jun 2017 #85
Which may be the cause of treestar Jun 2017 #140
He's a white guy making a joke about slavery. Which means, if he isn't a racist, pnwmom Jun 2017 #25
+Infinity - nt KingCharlemagne Jun 2017 #66
You are truly a voice of reason in an ocean of insanity. Gravitycollapse Jun 2017 #147
Thank you, Gravitycollapse. And you are, too. n/t pnwmom Jun 2017 #148
And this reaction on our side is why ... we lose. We eat our own. But "they" will NEVER do so ... mr_lebowski Jun 2017 #18
Yup - The self-defeating, over-sensitive, bandwagon Twitter dog-pilers Oneironaut Jun 2017 #47
ABSOLUTELY!! cisco man Jun 2017 #124
Thank you for one of the few posts on this thread that doesn't make me cringe. scarletwoman Jun 2017 #149
IT'S A FUCKING JOKE BY A COMEDIAN, FOR FUCKS SAKE! yallerdawg Jun 2017 #23
Cornel West could make that joke without apology. Bill Maher needs to apologize pnwmom Jun 2017 #27
What do we call it when we tell people what they can and cannot say? yallerdawg Jun 2017 #29
What do we call it when we tell people they can't CRITICIZE pnwmom Jun 2017 #122
I have an opinion. yallerdawg Jun 2017 #127
Like this from 2015? stopbush Jun 2017 #94
That was offensive because he was targeting a particular person pnwmom Jun 2017 #123
Malcolm X did not use the N-word in that diatribe oberliner Jun 2017 #33
This is the 21st century. yallerdawg Jun 2017 #36
I'm not sure I understand how that is relevant oberliner Jun 2017 #41
We actually have comedians who apologize after every joke! yallerdawg Jun 2017 #44
And it was totally out of nowhere. Race wasnt even being discussed. 7962 Jun 2017 #45
Sounds like he may have misunderstood a comment as racist Bradical79 Jun 2017 #59
You can hear the Sen trying to say "thats what we do.." as Maher keeps talking 7962 Jun 2017 #61
With "a" version tends to show up more in friendly situations Bradical79 Jun 2017 #64
the Tweetstorm was large & fast wasnt it? nt 7962 Jun 2017 #99
Not quite, here's the real Malcolm X video IronLionZion Jun 2017 #38
Since we're parsing words and ignoring context... yallerdawg Jun 2017 #43
Does using the n-word make it sharp and literate? oberliner Jun 2017 #50
If you don't 'get it' that's fine. yallerdawg Jun 2017 #55
"I got it and that's all that matters". That's some extremely selfish talk. bettyellen Jun 2017 #97
It's subjective. yallerdawg Jun 2017 #104
It's pretty much the definition of selfish, so yeah. And spare me the Liberatarian accusations bettyellen Jun 2017 #111
You are welcome to your opinion. yallerdawg Jun 2017 #120
I'm not asking to shut down his program oberliner Jun 2017 #128
I don't require him to apologize. yallerdawg Jun 2017 #132
He just apologized oberliner Jun 2017 #134
Hey - so did Kathy Griffin! yallerdawg Jun 2017 #135
Kathy Griffiin??? cisco man Jun 2017 #155
Ben Carson HOUSE NEGRO njhoneybadger Jun 2017 #53
Well, that added a lot to the conversation. nt 7962 Jun 2017 #107
+1. nt Honeycombe8 Jun 2017 #52
Oh just shocking, shocking I tell you. People need to get a grip. YOHABLO Jun 2017 #26
George Carlin is still the standard bearer about why the left keeps screwing this up Blue_Adept Jun 2017 #30
+1000 LAGC Jun 2017 #75
Here we go... Another issue pushed by Republican influenced press to incite Liberal infighting. TheBlackAdder Jun 2017 #31
Thank you canetoad Jun 2017 #34
Works? Like a bell to Pavlov's dog. TheBlackAdder Jun 2017 #39
Too true. (nt) scarletwoman Jun 2017 #150
Maher struggled for a long time..... dawnie51 Jun 2017 #35
You're not allowed to provide context! :D Blue_Adept Jun 2017 #42
A ton of people in Nebraska "work in the fields". not really a shocking statement 7962 Jun 2017 #46
Yeah, there's no way a Republican would use any sort of racial code wording. Blue_Adept Jun 2017 #70
In this case, thats really pushing to find something that just isnt there. 7962 Jun 2017 #101
+1. He spontaneously went for the joke using a historical reference term. Honeycombe8 Jun 2017 #56
Thank you! SCVDem Jun 2017 #77
I agree, FoxNewsSucks Jun 2017 #130
Oh, hahaha. I wonder if Kathy Griffin sees the humor in Maher's remark. Paladin Jun 2017 #48
Just like I cut Griffin slack, I also cut Maher even more slack. Honeycombe8 Jun 2017 #51
Disappointed not shocked mikeyDE Jun 2017 #57
Post removed Post removed Jun 2017 #58
Sigh indeed... LakeArenal Jun 2017 #81
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2017 #88
Are you trying to be divisive? What's with this "latte left"? Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2017 #109
I caught that, too. Strange term to use for a newbie. nt Honeycombe8 Jun 2017 #142
Could have ridiculed GOPer Ahole without that. Still like Maher, but that was a bad moment. Hoyt Jun 2017 #62
He is a smarmy little shit. demmiblue Jun 2017 #67
OhNoSheTwitnt sums up my feelings about Maher pretty well. deurbano Jun 2017 #114
Side note, but Sasse is a partiularly vile specimen of charlatan, calling KingCharlemagne Jun 2017 #68
Maybe a joke gone wrong, but this is not "racism." LBM20 Jun 2017 #71
Agree. It's also a Gone With The Wind reference, JenniferJuniper Jun 2017 #76
I don't care in the slightest. Inkfreak Jun 2017 #73
Much Ado about nothing packman Jun 2017 #74
Oh, here we go... Another shocking, offensive commedian.. LakeArenal Jun 2017 #78
"It's not just a matter of it not being polite to say nigger in public" Sunlei Jun 2017 #83
This message was self-deleted by its author JenniferJuniper Jun 2017 #95
I noticed it at the time, it was inappropriate but shouoldn't be a career ender. Lil Missy Jun 2017 #87
Lil Missy is correct.. LakeArenal Jun 2017 #108
Was it an "appropriate" remark? Heartstrings Jun 2017 #91
Bill Maher has not made the world any more or less JenniferJuniper Jun 2017 #96
Couldn't have said it better.. jovibennett Jun 2017 #105
Thank you! Very well said. scarletwoman Jun 2017 #146
Can we please avoid a Kathy Griffin redo here? bitterross Jun 2017 #102
Maher needs to apologize profusely and BLM needs to accept the apology Not Ruth Jun 2017 #103
Welcome to DU JenniferJuniper Jun 2017 #110
@deray agrees with you Not Ruth Jun 2017 #143
Meanwhile Bill and D.L Hughley are SCVDem Jun 2017 #112
Yes it was wrong, but should he be fired? vkkv Jun 2017 #115
I saw the "N word" spray painted on the side of a building downtown. Was it racist? Binkie The Clown Jun 2017 #116
I thought "PC" was a thing of the past. moondust Jun 2017 #118
It is not okay for any person to say that - Cornel West or Bill Maher Justice Jun 2017 #119
I was never comfortable with the "blogga please" segment he used to do stillsoleft Jun 2017 #121
Good points. We think of who might be harmed in the quest for the perfect zinger. deurbano Jun 2017 #133
I'm African American. I watched the video so I could understand the context underthematrix Jun 2017 #126
I'm actually far more angry at Ben Sasse for LAUGHING at the "joke" Fluke a Snooker Jun 2017 #129
I cannot believe... Mike B Jun 2017 #131
So do you think we should burn JenniferJuniper Jun 2017 #136
It's not wrong when "we" do it. Gravitycollapse Jun 2017 #138
No, that is not the context that "everyone" is using. Honeycombe8 Jun 2017 #144
That really truly is the context people are talking about. Gravitycollapse Jun 2017 #145
I see. So you just generally don't like him, no matter what he does. So you're not able to judge Honeycombe8 Jun 2017 #153
Bravo! (or Brava!, whichever applies, since I don't know your gender) scarletwoman Jun 2017 #152
 

Doug the Dem

(1,297 posts)
1. I Watched the Show
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 05:04 AM
Jun 2017

He clearly was joking, and said as much immediately.

Ideological purity is what got us Trump.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
2. For reasons of great historical importance, white people cannot use the n-word.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 05:05 AM
Jun 2017

Not even jokingly. I'm actually kind of shocked I need to explain this to anyone but I guess where there's Bill Maher, there are thousands of others who think just like him.

OnDoutside

(19,908 posts)
5. It would be better if no one used it, and just consign it to the
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 05:24 AM
Jun 2017

dustbin of history. I get why black people wanted to own the word, but I think the time has come for the word to be exorcised from our vocabulary.

OnDoutside

(19,908 posts)
12. You're arguing a different point. Black America should have
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 06:03 AM
Jun 2017

the conversation, and lead on this. While the word hangs around, it will unfortunately continue to be used.

 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
89. I honestly don't even listen to most of today's comics
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 11:51 AM
Jun 2017

But when I happen to catch a few minutes - if the comic is black, you're gonna hear the N-word a time or two. They're not saying it JUST to be funny - they're saying it because it sells their comedy and keeps the money rolling in. If that's justified against the stigma of that utterance, I'll eat my shorts. I don't USE that word, I don't need that word. But if I WAS looking for a "pass" to use it, I'd have to look NO FURTHER than black comedians. Of course, comedians aren't the only ones using it jestfully, but they're the ones in the spotlight (literally).

If you pronounce a corpse DEAD - yet you won't bury it and you keep dancing it around like a big stinking puppet - how does that put it to rest???

duhneece

(4,105 posts)
22. Wrong. Blacks learned to 'own' the 'n' word; women, 'cunt'
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 06:51 AM
Jun 2017

My niece explained it to me when I was complaining about one monologue in the play I co-produced in Alamogordo, NM.

Lori married a black man. When their son, Maceo, was 16, his best friend was at their home and the best friend was introducing another friend to Maceo, by saying, "This (Maceo) is the smartest 'n' word (only he used the word) I know."

Lori's 6 yr old was also in the room and never looked up. It was at that moment that Lori learned what owning a word meant. Her 6 yr old would never be stung by the word by any white person. It wouldn't sting to the bone like that word did to her husband and in-laws.

So, at that moment, I realized why Eve Ensler insisted on any producer of 'The Vagina Monologues' TVM had to keep the 'Cunt' monologue in the play when it was produced. No woman would be shamed silent by the word. We were owning 'cunt'.

The smartest woman I know and the other co-producer of TVM, Karen, did this once at a dinner where her new boyfriend, her boyfriend's son Alex and I were invited to eat filet Mignon, which I hadn't had for over 30 years:

Alex at 15 had never had it, didn't know about 'the toothpick' which held the bacon to the steak. When he bit down on it, broke it, he pulled the toothpick out of his mouth and said, "you cunt". Karen then said, "Oh, Alex, now I'm really worried." Karen then used both hands and pointed to her vulva, saying, "This is my cunt and we'll have to work on what else you're confused about."

Alex did not get the response he expected and now, 6 years later, they remain close and I remain in awe of Karen's brilliance.

We co-produced The Vagina Monologues, with 'The Cunt' in it, of course, for 6 years, earning money & awareness for our Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner, domestic violence, our Peace & Justice centers and more.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
137. funny story. Someone needs to figure out an equally patronizing come back to the N word
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 03:43 PM
Jun 2017

If you get mad, they've had the desired effect. If you treat them like an ignorant child, it might sting the person who used it more than the target.

 

rtracey

(2,062 posts)
117. never going to happen
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 12:55 PM
Jun 2017

never going to happen. There will always be that aspect of life in this world. If its not that word its another. Then there are the words for Jews, Chinese, Vietnam, Latinos, etc.....One can choose not to use them, but how many times would we have heard it in a redneck bar ohhhh for the past 8+ years pertaining to our previous president.

Roy Rolling

(6,856 posts)
8. Okay, I'll say it
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 05:37 AM
Jun 2017

I'm shocked that I need to explain this to anyone but special white people language laws only empower racists' use of the n-word. As a white person who supported the struggle for civil rights in the '60s, whites-only language rules and blacks-only language rules block meaningful communication between people one-on-one. Better to have a common language.

If we wanna take the power away from racists, turn the other cheek when they try to upset black people by using the n-word. Then it is the PERSON who is a racist, not the word. Bill Maher using the n-word, though today offensive to African Americans, does not make him a racist deserving of the same scorn as a racist.

I have my own issues, with a crippling and progressive well-known muscle disease. I am now a cripple. I can call myself that. And guess what, so can anyone. Especially if they mean me harm by it, because laughing them off is all worth it. Much more so than trying to educate someone who is happy being dumb.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
9. People have the right to be offended, just as you have the right to not be offended.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 05:44 AM
Jun 2017

Groups historically targeted by language have the rightful ownership of that language and can do with it what they please. Everyone else needs to listen to that group and not partake in language that has been used to further a system of unspeakable violence.

Roy Rolling

(6,856 posts)
13. I said I was offended, the use is offensive in today's culture
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 06:03 AM
Jun 2017

I just disagree with the idea of certain people having ownership of words. It is an unenforceable concept and throws gasoline on the fire of racism. As a white person, I have no ownership over an intended racial slur like "cracker", and choose to ignore attempts to inflame me with provocative language.

But I understand language can offend, and don't mean to diminish that reality by being unrealistically insensitive. In a general sense, moving toward taking the power of words away from racists is a better goal than racially-drawn divisions on who is permitted to use an epithet word, and who is forbidden to use the same word.

 

TheDebbieDee

(11,119 posts)
49. The N-word...
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 08:21 AM
Jun 2017

I think that it’s time that African-Americans strip the power of the N-word. The word is against black people by White people when they want to push our buttons in an attempt to make black people lose their $hit!

I wouldn’t want my son or daughter to allow the use of that word against them by a white person to hold such sway or power over them. Our kids should be taught that IF that word is thrown at them, then they should smile, even laugh out loud, look that person in the eye and ask them, “Really? Is that the best you can do? Is that your best effort to distract me or make me feel less than you? You need a much better vocabulary. Go back to school, read a book, learn some more words or something...”

Chemisse

(30,793 posts)
40. Unfortunately, the use of this word by AAs perpetuates it.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 07:47 AM
Jun 2017

Black kids 'own' it by using it with each other. White kids think that's pretty cool, so they use it as well, apparently without backlash, in mixed-race groups of friends.

And that would be fine if its negative connotation had dissipated at the same time. But it hasn't. There is way too much racism for this word to become defused and mainstreamed anytime soon.

In the meantime, trying to police the word (only AAs can use it without condemnation) is going to be a constant struggle.


 

lancelyons

(988 posts)
63. I would not go that far.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 09:46 AM
Jun 2017

My kids have some african american friends they are very very close to. Just as fellow african americans say it to each other and in songs, they say it to each other. Not very often but sometimes. It is NOT NOT NOT taken as derogatory when they are talking.

Now If I met a african american on the streets and where using the word, that would be totally different and I agree.

It just depends on how it is being used and folks can tell.

Igel

(35,197 posts)
84. I've heard a lot of white people use it in ways that weren't derogatory.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 11:38 AM
Jun 2017

Same for other people of varying shades of brown that don't self-describe as "African-American."

What seems to matter is whether the AA listeners think there's any ill-will, if intent is present. For those kids, it's apparently motivation that matters and if the white kid (or Asian or Latino or Native American) is keeping with a rap or hip-hop song or falling into an "in-group" style of talking or has been sufficiently included, then it's fine.

Some "outsiders" take offensive, and an AA friend licenses his (or her, usually his) use of the word. "He's okay."

That use of the word by non-blacks will continue. Now, I'm saying "non-blacks", but somebody else upthread seemed to indicate that the real problem is just "white" (whatever that means in this context; I consider Arabs and many Latinos to be white). Meaning, I guess, if a Cuban uses the word as an insult it's okay. I doubt that's what the person wanted others to hear, but I assume s/he said what they actually meant.

For some listeners, there's always the presumption of ill-will, of racism, of derogation. It simplifies things: If every non-black use is derogatory by definition until innocence is established, then you don't have an argument. You've defined the person as racist unless you can apply the escape clause. (A lot of race-related things in the US are structured that way: guilty until proven innocent. It's part and parcel of the warping of American thought that comprises part of slavery's legacy.)

So with Bill Maher, some will declare his use of the word acceptable, either because it was tongue-in-cheek or otherwise not intended to offend. Some won't catch that, and will be offended. For others there's no attempt to find the usage acceptable, for reasons of their own, and they might even deny the suitability of the attempt to say the use wasn't offensive.

FWIW, a few years back there was an interesting linguisticky op-ed piece in the NYT that pointed out that taboo words have a special status in all societies, and some are more taboo than others. So "shit" isn't okay to say in local public schools, but if a teacher got up and said, "It is not okay to say 'shit' in my classroom" there'd be no repercussion. Some words are variable: "It is not okay to say 'fuck' in my classroom" would be acceptable. "It is not okay to say 'cunt' in my classroom" would create some strong dissent. "It is not okay to say 'n*****' in my classroom" would incite rage among many. That word cannot be included in quotes; to use it in attributed speech produces, for some listeners, offense similar to what's produced if you say it directly to them. They are always the topic of every conversation. Other terms of abuse can be used in quotes and their status as citations respected. So I could say, "It's not okay to say 'bitch' in my classroom" or to use any number of ethnic or sex-related terms in that sentence frame.

Taboo words are unutterable in nearly any context, for many people. Take Slavic languages, something I knew a few things about: The bear was a totem for Slavs, and to mention a thing is to summon it ("jinx" still survives as a thing in some American subcultures; "speak of the devil&quot . So they used a euphemism: A bear eats honey, so it's a honey-eater, a medu-edis, which became Russian medved' 'bear'. All traces of the original word have been lost; the bear's "true name" was probably left to the shamans to know, and, well, such esoterica can fall through the cracks.

What's weird is the racial or sexual aspect to some taboo words in the US. Taboo words are usually made taboo by authorities. So "fuck" was made taboo by middle-class mores; it's been around in that form for a millennium or more and wasn't inappropriate for much of that time. Only in a few strata of society could you merely cite the word and create an outcry, but elevating a word to that kind of taboo status happens. However, to use the word in that kind of society is to challenge authority, so it became more popular in some anti-languages than mainstream speech, and was always used in some subcultures. This line of reasoning is unpopular, though, because it sort of subverts what many people think of as loci of "authority"; power in America is viewed as very dichotomous, but this implies that it's shifted in part over the last 60-70 years.

still_one

(91,965 posts)
93. That may be the way things are, but frankly no one should use the n-word, or other ethnic or
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 11:56 AM
Jun 2017

racial slurs in the ordinary vernacular

I don't care if it comes from those who are part of that demographic or not, that is my view.

I happen to be Jewish, and being told more than once by someone that using the term "I got jewed", has nothing to with being against Jews. Bullshit. The same applies to terms used against African Americans, Hispanics, Italians, and other demographic groups.



cab67

(2,963 posts)
113. I don't entirely agree.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 12:40 PM
Jun 2017

The works of Mark Twain are landmarks in American literature. They should be read and discussed by students, regardless of how frequently the N-word appears.

College courses about contemporary film not including Quentin Tarantino? Or on the development of hip-hop music excluding some of the more popular and groundbreaking work because of an offensive word? That would hamstring scholarship.

Likewise, historical drama focusing on 20th century American racism, but with the n-word expurgated, would do a disservice to its audience - language was one of the most powerful tools used to keep African Americans (and other targeted groups) in a lower social status.

I agree completely with arguments that intent and context are all-important. It would be virtually impossible for me, a white male, to use the n-word casually in ordinary conversation without causing offense. I therefore would never use the word. But if I were teaching a course on Mark Twain*, I'd have no choice, and it would open doors to conversation about how language changes and how race relations have developed since they were written.

*I'm in the sciences, so I wouldn't actually teach such a course - but I have friends who do.

 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
125. I agree with your comments totally
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 01:40 PM
Jun 2017

I didn't mean we should rewrite and cover up our​ history or our great works of art/literature.

There is no place for it in common discourse today though.

Duppers

(28,094 posts)
10. Exactly! I also watched.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 05:52 AM
Jun 2017

Grief. People need to put this in context.




Shall we now dissect lyrics of "Side to Side"?

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
24. I watched the segment. It's NOT ok for white people to make a joke
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 06:58 AM
Jun 2017

related to the slavery of American American people.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
65. At least not until reparations have been made and paid for all the stolen
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 09:50 AM
Jun 2017

labor (aka "wealth&quot and destroyed lives.

christx30

(6,241 posts)
80. The question is: Who replaces him?
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 11:20 AM
Jun 2017

I watch Maher on youtube all the time. He seems like a smart, funny guy. And more importantly, he's on our side. I may not agree with him 100% of the time, but I'd rather he be there instead of some conservative comedian.

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
154. That's not our issue...
Sun Jun 4, 2017, 12:39 AM
Jun 2017

It's his. Either he fixes using the "N" word or faces whatever music. His choice.

christx30

(6,241 posts)
156. 2018 and 2020 is everyone's issue.
Sun Jun 4, 2017, 09:51 AM
Jun 2017

You want purity? Hope you're ready for Trump 2.0. The repubs would never attack one of their own for something like this. The Access Hollywood tape happened, with the pussy grabbing, and they acted outraged, but still voted for him.
Maher apologized. That should be the end of it. We'll never win an election of we keep attacking our allies.

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
157. Maher is a Comedian.....
Sun Jun 4, 2017, 10:45 AM
Jun 2017

Not a politician. Who used the "N" word. If he's a so-called "ally" the Democratic Party needs new ones. Maher's mouth caused this problem for him so, hell no, we don't feel a bit of sympathy for his current situation. Not the least.

Next time, maybe he'll think as a Caucasian Man before letting the "N" word out of his mouth.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
90. There's no excuse for it. Especially not Trumps "just joking" nonsense.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 11:53 AM
Jun 2017

People have to own their words.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
6. I saw some anger when it happened but no mainstream coverage.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 05:24 AM
Jun 2017

Maher's an asshole. He's offended and alienated many groups over the years. This latest one is simply going to be his most public.

Behind the Aegis

(53,833 posts)
15. "This latest one is simply going to be his most public."
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 06:11 AM
Jun 2017

And, therein lies part of the problem. I don't feel it is appropriate for someone who is not AA to use that word, without context, and not as a punchline, but there also needs to be an examination of reactions to incidents like this from the media and others. I don't think he is alienated many groups, he has pissed off people from time to time, and, sometimes, for good reason. But, the hierarchy of what is "good/bad" is very obvious.

LeftInTX

(24,560 posts)
79. I didn't hear about this.....
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 11:19 AM
Jun 2017

I don't watch his show..

So wrong.

I don't believe Maher is homophobic or racist, but words matter.

Pluvious

(4,278 posts)
106. When you use it in private convo, it can slip out other times
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 12:19 PM
Jun 2017

So obviously best to never use such language ever

Igel

(35,197 posts)
86. They're different levels of taboo.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 11:40 AM
Jun 2017

It's hard to reshape culture for 330 million people without their permission. Takes a lot of persuasion and, for many, coercion.

OnDoutside

(19,908 posts)
4. I just KNEW that word was going to blow up !!! I suspect
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 05:20 AM
Jun 2017

Maher knew too, after the Kathy Griffin exploits, and is doing this to get a bit of the action. Expect this showtrial to be joined by the RW racist nutjobs expressing their disgust.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
98. No, in another article the distinction was made a big deal. I Shouldve mentioned that.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 12:09 PM
Jun 2017

The outrage was supposedly more focused on the WAY he said it
i agree with you.

Igel

(35,197 posts)
92. That's often a meaningless distinction.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 11:53 AM
Jun 2017

If you're up North where most dialects are rhotic, then the -er/-uh distinction's reasonable. People would usually pronounce the distinction. A rhotic dialect has a distinction between a plain vowel (a) and a rhoticized or r-colored vowel (written ar, but that r is different from the r in 'red').

If you're from a non-rhotic dialect, Southern or Appalachian, there is no -er/-uh distinction except in writing.

Even in rhotic dialects, a final r-colored schwa two syllables from the stress is going to be subject to extreme reduction and shortening, so if it was rhoticized it wouldn't be easy to hear. "I want to hear it" (or "I don't want to hear it&quot could swamp any actual phonetic difference. Same before stress: "mother fucker" even in my speech community is often "muhthuh fucker", and it's had very little influence from AAVE. Similarly, the number of phonetic analyses done by ear that are completely falsified when confronted with spectrogram data or even forced-choice experiments with subjects is amazing; what's also amazing is that most of them they give the results that the researchers always knew they'd find.

A lot of rhotic speakers simply don't have the rhotic form of the term under discussion in their usual lexicon these days, since they usually hear it from a non-rhotic source. Since the -er has absolutely no meaning they borrow the word as a whole or remodel their own rhotic version with no loss in meaning. (In "worker" or "fucker" they'd keep the -er because it clearly derives a noun from a verb; however, under the influence of other dialects I hear rhotic-speakers say "fuckah" sometimes, but clearly in imitation.) In some cases they assume that the -a variant is always okay. They're the same word with people straining to find some reason to say one's bad (the one used outside the AAVE community) and one's good (the one used inside the community, even when it's used derogatorily and completely in parallel it's still 'different' and therefore okay).

Mike Nelson

(9,903 posts)
16. Bill is...
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 06:14 AM
Jun 2017

...not a racist. He may be jealous of the attention Kathy's been getting... all of these people are into attention.

Duppers

(28,094 posts)
19. Bill Maher dates black women, almost exclusively.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 06:21 AM
Jun 2017

So, racist? Please.

I agree with you! But your comment about being jealous of Kathy was a joke, right?



politicat

(9,808 posts)
85. There can be a difference between fetishism and equality in romantic interests.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 11:39 AM
Jun 2017

Not saying that's true in this case because I know nothing about Maher's personal life, but ask any woman of color. It really is a thing and it's still a form of objectification.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
140. Which may be the cause of
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 04:29 PM
Jun 2017

his hearing that expression more - remember the mayor of NY said something similarly scandalous and his wife and kids are black. He's going to feel "in" with a black group more and make this same type of misstep.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
25. He's a white guy making a joke about slavery. Which means, if he isn't a racist,
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 07:00 AM
Jun 2017

he's extremely insensitive.

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
18. And this reaction on our side is why ... we lose. We eat our own. But "they" will NEVER do so ...
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 06:17 AM
Jun 2017

Maher's entire monologue on the same show, is generally-speaking ... making that point. Perhaps there's an intentional 'tie-in' there. And if not intentional, it's still a tie-in.

'We' ... refuse to unify like we need to. Maybe it's because we're a disparate coalition, and they are 'angry white xtian straight people, with a smattering of people NOT of that group ... but who really want to be associated with them'.

IMHO, 'we' need to quit being so judgmental, and dogmatic and ... dare I say ... 'anal', for lack of a better word. Or we're going to keep LOSING.

Is it a 'joke in poor taste'? Yeah. Should it have been said? Probably not, no. But I honestly don't believe Maher is a racist, nor do I want to lose Maher's voice, nor his show. NOT WORTH IT to me, over this.

But then, I'm not 'one of the offended', so perhaps my voice doesn't count.

Every one knows the phrase 'house n*****', AKA Uncle Tom (which is what he should've said to make the same point) and what it means 'in context'. For a (even if white) person to use this particular phrase to describe THEMSELVES ... is a very, very different thing than calling an AA ... the N word. Its not in particularly 'good taste' but it's a far cry from a racial insult. IMHO.

I seriously cannot believe this reaction. I really can't.

BTW, in case there's ANY confusion, the rightist's 'complaints' are based on their hatred of the Liberal Maher, not their hatred of the N-word. Just keeping it real ...

Oneironaut

(5,462 posts)
47. Yup - The self-defeating, over-sensitive, bandwagon Twitter dog-pilers
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 08:10 AM
Jun 2017

They're looking for the next Democrat to get fired / get thrown off the air. I think Bill Maher is an arrogant jerk, but we need to stop caring about these over-sensitive whiners. We shouldn't be in the business of authoritarian speech-policing.

cisco man

(26 posts)
124. ABSOLUTELY!!
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 01:37 PM
Jun 2017

When will we (everyone NOT a trump/republican supporter) EVER learn?????

I am white & been married to a black person for over 30+ years. Get the fuck over this shit people!!!!

You know who was the least surprised about the election of this shithead???? Black folks!!!

Black folks (with VERY few exeptions) are usually the least likely to be obsessed with this crap. Get real. GAWD...have you seen the stupid back-lash on Kathy???? Does everyone forget the fucking republicans NEVER have an issue with saying/doing awful shit. Remember all the nasty, really tasteless & downright racist shit that was posted/said/shown about Barack & Michelle??? What Kathy did wasn't close to that shit in my opinion.

I don't LOVE Bill...but I sure like him & what he's saying most of the time. Why do we have to be freakin perfect???? Leave him (& Kathy) alone & FOCUS!!!!

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
149. Thank you for one of the few posts on this thread that doesn't make me cringe.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 06:25 PM
Jun 2017

You said:I seriously cannot believe this reaction. I really can't.

I can believe it all too well. It's the howl of the aroused liberal mob out for the blood of someone who has committed an offense against their orthodoxy: "You are not of the Body!"



The sinner must be cast out!

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
23. IT'S A FUCKING JOKE BY A COMEDIAN, FOR FUCKS SAKE!
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 06:52 AM
Jun 2017

It's a reference to a brilliant Malcolm X diatribe on complicity!

If we fire every comedian for each time their joke bombs or they say something "offensive" we will live in a colder, sadder world.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
27. Cornel West could make that joke without apology. Bill Maher needs to apologize
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 07:02 AM
Jun 2017

for making a racially offensive joke.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
29. What do we call it when we tell people what they can and cannot say?
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 07:07 AM
Jun 2017

You may find it offensive and inappropriate - change the channel.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
122. What do we call it when we tell people they can't CRITICIZE
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 01:34 PM
Jun 2017

people for offensive racial jokes and speech?

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
127. I have an opinion.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 01:52 PM
Jun 2017

You have an opinion.

Part of what Bill Maher speaks of quite regularly now is the intolerance and mandate for 'political correctness' coming out of "the left" now.

There is a whole lot of context that isn't reflected in criticizing one word or one exchange.

This resonates with some people - even here at DU.

stopbush

(24,378 posts)
94. Like this from 2015?
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 12:00 PM
Jun 2017

"Activist and professor Cornel West said that President Obama, “the first black president, has become the first nigger-ized black president,” during a Monday appearance on CNN."

BTW - West was Bill's guest on the last show. Maybe they got to talking.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
123. That was offensive because he was targeting a particular person
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 01:36 PM
Jun 2017

and in front of a white audience.

But Cornel West could have called himself a "house N" in front of other black people and it wouldn't have been considered offensive.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
33. Malcolm X did not use the N-word in that diatribe
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 07:35 AM
Jun 2017

He used the phrase "House Negro" - he did not use the racial epithet that Maher used.

Seems a little weird for Maher to use the epithet he used instead.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
36. This is the 21st century.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 07:43 AM
Jun 2017

I can imagine what the twitterverse would say if Maher said the word "Negro."

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
41. I'm not sure I understand how that is relevant
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 07:49 AM
Jun 2017

The point I am making is that the n-word is particularly offensive/insensitive and that is why white people generally avoid using it on television, even in the context of telling jokes.

I think if he wanted to reference the Malcolm X diatribe you mention and had said "House Negro" as Malcolm did, he would not have received the reaction from most of the twitter verse that he is receiving now.

To be clear, he has the right to make whatever jokes he wants, but I think it's reasonable for folks to ask him to apologize for using the word that he did (and he has the right to not apologize if he doesn't want to).

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
44. We actually have comedians who apologize after every joke!
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 07:54 AM
Jun 2017

Entire careers built on it!

Many comedians don't. It's not their shtick.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
45. And it was totally out of nowhere. Race wasnt even being discussed.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 08:05 AM
Jun 2017

Not that it would have been an excuse

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
59. Sounds like he may have misunderstood a comment as racist
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 09:08 AM
Jun 2017

and made a poor joke to draw attention to it. If someone isn't from a place where humans working the fields is still a thing, they've probbably mostly just heard that phrase in relation to slavery. I know that's the case with me.

My gut reaction was that Sasse was making a racist joke himself. That seems unlikely considering the context of where he was from, who he said it to, and how he said it, but I had to think about it for a minute.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
61. You can hear the Sen trying to say "thats what we do.." as Maher keeps talking
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 09:19 AM
Jun 2017

he says "work in the fields??" and sasse starts saying "thats what we..." and thats when maher comes in with "senator, I'm a ...."
It also appears that Maher did use the "a" at the end of the word (for some reason more acceptable) instead of the "er"

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
64. With "a" version tends to show up more in friendly situations
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 09:48 AM
Jun 2017

Still generally frowned upon, but something young people are more likely to say to each other. Sometimes something said among friends, but most people would get pretty mad at a white kid saying that. Also some exceptions though depending on how longtime friends react.

When I was younger it was mostly a joke among white kids "pretending to be black". Similiar joking started after Bill Clinton was jokingly called the "first black president", then a lot more when I was a teen and Rush Hour had that bit with Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker.

It's especially ill advised for an old white man to try and talk like that, especially in public, though the national media attention here is way overblown, imo.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
43. Since we're parsing words and ignoring context...
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 07:51 AM
Jun 2017

where did I say or imply Bill Maher was quoting Malcolm X?

This IS what he was quick-wittedly "referencing" when Sasse asked him to come to Nebraska 'to join us in the fields.'

I appreciate sharp and literate comedy. I want to be challenged. I don't want the same old shit.

I know the product I pay for.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
50. Does using the n-word make it sharp and literate?
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 08:28 AM
Jun 2017

I'm not sure I understand how you think the use of that word was funny or effective comedically in this context.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
55. If you don't 'get it' that's fine.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 08:47 AM
Jun 2017

I got it - and that's all that matters!

That's why I pay to watch HBO's 'Real Time with Bill Maher.' Because I 'get it.'

Don't pay - change the channel - don't watch - I don't care what you do.

Please afford me the same courtesy.


yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
104. It's subjective.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 12:17 PM
Jun 2017

I suppose that is selfish.

But you're more than welcome to tell me what I can watch and listen to. When I should be offended. When I should be intolerant.

That would be selfless, I'm sure.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
111. It's pretty much the definition of selfish, so yeah. And spare me the Liberatarian accusations
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 12:31 PM
Jun 2017

About authoritarian behavior. If you signed up for DU, yu agreed to rules of civility that preclude the use of such words. The horror! im sure you're way to principled to stay among us now, because principles!

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
120. You are welcome to your opinion.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 01:12 PM
Jun 2017

You can say whatever you want.

We might disagree and we might argue.

THAT'S why I "signed up" at DU.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
128. I'm not asking to shut down his program
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 01:56 PM
Jun 2017

I just agree with folks who think he should apologize.

You can still watch him if you want to.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
132. I don't require him to apologize.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 02:28 PM
Jun 2017

He says offensive things all the time!

Unfiltered outrageousness AND outrage is part of the appeal of the show! I want dangerous and edgy!

There is MUCH worse than Bill Maher out there, trust me!

Don't make me find Sam Kinison or Katt Williams videos. Or any unedited 'roast.' Oh, no.

cisco man

(26 posts)
155. Kathy Griffiin???
Sun Jun 4, 2017, 01:24 AM
Jun 2017

Yeah, she did...and shoulda just left it as that; an apology plain & simple. No...she had to go on & do a whole presser where she cried & blubbered about it. Sheesh! Enough already. Makes the left look rather pathetic really- makes me just shake my head as a democrat.

dawnie51

(959 posts)
35. Maher struggled for a long time.....
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 07:40 AM
Jun 2017

to respond to Sasse's comment about "we'd love to have you work in the fields with us". It was obvious he was completely thrown by him saying this. He said "Really?" "You still work the fields?" And of course the response under fire here. He attempted to put Mr. Sasse straight with it. I knew the second he said it that it would be a controversy, but in reply to what Sasse said, ??????

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
46. A ton of people in Nebraska "work in the fields". not really a shocking statement
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 08:09 AM
Jun 2017

Why would Mahar need to set Sasse straight about it?

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
101. In this case, thats really pushing to find something that just isnt there.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 12:14 PM
Jun 2017

he's on Maher's show, not Alex jones.
I'd think its a safe bet that the vast majority of people working in agriculture in nebraska are probably white and not black. hell, the university teams are the "Cornhuskers"

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
56. +1. He spontaneously went for the joke using a historical reference term.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 08:49 AM
Jun 2017

This happens with successful comedians who push the envelope. When you respond spontaneously, as Maher does, it's bound to happen sometimes.

If they don't respond quickly & spontaneously, or push the envelope, they aren't successful, usually.

This is not the N word in its present context. He shouldn't have responded at all, but the "working in the fields" reference was just too funny to him, and hearkened back to the slavery days.

It wasn't a planned joke or routine, or a planned photographic joke like Griffin's (where there was plenty of time to consider appropriateness and how it would be rec'd).

Much ado over nothing, IMO, since he doesn't have a history of this. I would feel the same way, even if he had made a bad reference to women.

People should walk a mile in someone else's shoes before they criticize. Imagine you going out to be a successful comedian who gets laughs while interviewing other people, and consider whether you would ever make a joke that is offensive to someone or some group. Of course you would. It's unavoidable.

I cut both Maher & Griffin slack, but more so Maher, because it was a spontaneous joke.

FoxNewsSucks

(10,378 posts)
130. I agree,
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 02:07 PM
Jun 2017

and notice how there's no backlash against the smarmy teabag Senator who SET UP THE JOKE. "field n____s and house n___s". Maher just supplied the likely punchline, no more no less.

So let's sit back and watch the outraged tRump teabaggers say NOTHING about Sasse. Who knows, maybe he did it on purpose. They desperately need more distractions these days.

Paladin

(28,204 posts)
48. Oh, hahaha. I wonder if Kathy Griffin sees the humor in Maher's remark.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 08:17 AM
Jun 2017

Griffin's career is in tatters because of that severed head image, but Maher will more than likely survive this racist spewing, given the way this country is going. Just swell.

For the record, I walked away from Maher's show some time ago. I got sick to death of his increasing Islamophobia, the obnoxious right-wing spokespeople he insists on having on his show, and the snotty scolding he delivers to liberals on an increasingly regular basis. It's like watching Dennis Miller's career, in slower motion. Fuck Maher, and anybody who defends him.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
51. Just like I cut Griffin slack, I also cut Maher even more slack.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 08:38 AM
Jun 2017

Being a successful comedian means pushing the envelope and going to the edge. If they're joking off the cuff, especially, they are likely to go over the edge occasionally. If it happens repeatedly, that's no accident.

With this instance, Maher was in a conversation where the other person made a reference that seemed to Maher similar to a slavery reference (working in the fields), and he quickly responded to that to go for the joke. It was spontaneous, off the cuff and not planned. It was wrong, but it just came out AS A JOKE. I cut him slack on that because of the nature of his vocation and the context of this (it was off the cuff in the midst of a conversation).

Griffin, however, had planned her joke, with quite a bit of preparation, and the taking of photographs. Still, I cut her slack, too.

He should apologize and move on. I would think the same thing if he had used the "c" word referring to women (although I can't think of a legitimate history of that word's use in our history).

Griffin's incident was less excusable, IMO, but I still cut her slack in that, because she's a comedian. So Maher's incident is even more excusable. Neither of these 2 comedians has a history of doing what they did in these recent instances. A spontaneous retort in keeping with the theme of a conversation, as you go for the joke, can result is some lines that go over the edge. Maher doesn't have a history of using the word.

 

mikeyDE

(31 posts)
57. Disappointed not shocked
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 08:53 AM
Jun 2017

I was disappointed, if not shocked, by Maher's joke. Although I didn't appreciate this particular slur, I giggled at the rest of them -- don't you love it when the cameras show the distinguished panel trying to suppress their laughter during New Rules?

It's interesting that later in the show Maher was quick to celebrate the latest slot-machine, everything-about-your-technology-shows-how-small-and-needy-you-really-are meme. Every time he gets up on stage he pulls at the slot machine's arm and waits for the rush that audience approval gives him. I don't blame him, that's what performers do. And I will miss him when he's gone -- watching the video clips here is part of my Saturday morning routine -- Maher helps me make sense of the week's events in a world getting crazier at warp speed.

Response to Gravitycollapse (Original post)

Response to LakeArenal (Reply #81)

deurbano

(2,891 posts)
114. OhNoSheTwitnt sums up my feelings about Maher pretty well.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 12:43 PM
Jun 2017

Yeah, he can be be very funny and irreverent as he cleverly slam things I think need slamming... but he's still a "smug Islamophobic misogynistic attention-whore," and the word in question wasn't later bleeped out (is that right?), which reinforces the "attention-whore" aspect.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
68. Side note, but Sasse is a partiularly vile specimen of charlatan, calling
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 09:55 AM
Jun 2017

himself a "First Amendment absolutist."

Give me a fucking break. I can think of several things I could say or write that would land me in the slammer and Sasse would be applauding all the way. I'm sure many members on this board can think of similar sentiments.

"First Amendment absolutist," my ass.

 

LBM20

(1,580 posts)
71. Maybe a joke gone wrong, but this is not "racism."
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 10:01 AM
Jun 2017

Maher does not not come close to being a racist. He is a satirical comedian, and that is exactly what that was, an attempt at satirical comedy. I fully understand the history with that word and how offensive it is. But context must also be considered, always. And we must also consider how that word has been used in rap songs, how it has been used by black comedians going back at least to Richard Pryor, and how it may still be used in some contexts in the black community. I personally think that all racially charged language like that, whomever uses it and however it is used, is wrong. At the same time, let's always consider context and not start labeling people as "racist" over things like a joke gone bad.

JenniferJuniper

(4,496 posts)
76. Agree. It's also a Gone With The Wind reference,
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 11:13 AM
Jun 2017

a quote from Pork when he learns he'll have work in the fields after the war.

So I agree, he wasn't being racist and context is very important.

LakeArenal

(28,729 posts)
78. Oh, here we go... Another shocking, offensive commedian..
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 11:17 AM
Jun 2017

"people who "claim to be our allies". Talk about rhetoric....

I don't particularly like Maher. But a friend loves him.. One of the reasons I don't like him, is he comes off as a jerk and not very nice. Shocking he would say some shocking...

Once we cleanse the air waves of these horrible people, maybe we can concentrate on people who DO offensive and reprehensible things

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
83. "It's not just a matter of it not being polite to say nigger in public"
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 11:35 AM
Jun 2017

"""""Washington (CNN) — President Barack Obama used the n-word during an interview released Monday to make a point that there's still plenty of room for America to combat racism.


"Racism, we are not cured of it. And it's not just a matter of it not being polite to say nigger in public," Obama said in an interview for the podcast "WTF with Marc Maron."


"That's not the measure of whether racism still exists or not. It's not just a matter of overt discrimination. Societies don't, overnight, completely erase everything that happened 200 to 300 years prior."""""

Response to Sunlei (Reply #83)

Lil Missy

(17,865 posts)
87. I noticed it at the time, it was inappropriate but shouoldn't be a career ender.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 11:48 AM
Jun 2017

I think he should address it with an apology. But even worse that Maher's comment are the purists who want to purge Liberal Democrats if they are only 95% in agreement with the Party Platform. That's why we lose so many elections - there is never anyone PURE enough to satisfy the whole spectrum of the Party. I've lost any patience I ever had for that demographic.

My 2 cents

Heartstrings

(7,349 posts)
91. Was it an "appropriate" remark?
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 11:53 AM
Jun 2017

In retrospect, no.....however, that's how Bill Maher rolls on his show and always has.

From comments I've read on other sights, apparently the ones "offended" by the comment are mostly right wing white folks, but then again, after reading the remarks on this op....I'm dead wrong.

JenniferJuniper

(4,496 posts)
96. Bill Maher has not made the world any more or less
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 12:02 PM
Jun 2017

racist.

The senator told Bill he should come work in the fields in Nebraska, and Bill declined, no doubt with these words from one of the most famous books/films in American history in his head:

“Miss Scarlett, dat a fe’el han’s bizness. Ah’s allus been a house nigger.”

I seriously doubt it was planned as I don't think the exchange itself was planned. Not an artful response, but not intended as racist. It wasn't directed towards anyone and almost certainly was a knee jerk response to the suggestion he become a field hand.

What shall we do to prevent such utterances in the future? Ban Huckleberry Finn in schools? Burn all copies of Gone With The Wind? Tell TCM they can never run anything but a heavily edited version of the film?

Context, please. And let's stop freaking out over ever little utterance, especially at a time when our democracy is being systematically destroyed by real enemies.

jovibennett

(120 posts)
105. Couldn't have said it better..
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 12:19 PM
Jun 2017

People are saying he used the word on national television...Its HBO. People may be seeing the replay on national tv today. I watched it myself. It wasn't planned, and IMO not intended to be racist. We are to quick to have knee jerk reactions to everything. A few weeks ago Colbert was in trouble for saying trumps mouth was a holder for Putin's penis and he got into trouble ( but that is true !!)

We have bigger issues to worry about. We have a president destroying everything he touches, crooks and lier's everywhere, thief's in the temple and we are losing our shit over a joke gone wrong. I will continue to watch his show.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
146. Thank you! Very well said.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 05:38 PM
Jun 2017

This thread, for the most part, just makes my head hurt. Your post, along with one or two others, is the only relief to be found.

I find all this white liberal outrage simply farcical.

 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
102. Can we please avoid a Kathy Griffin redo here?
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 12:15 PM
Jun 2017

Seriously. How long are we going to continue to allow the other side to define the terms of the debate? They never follow those terms and rarely pay the price. We, on the other hand, seem to always shoot ourselves for them.

 

Not Ruth

(3,613 posts)
143. @deray agrees with you
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 05:18 PM
Jun 2017

BLM says simply that he has to go. I am being reasonable, and at the same thing, being Woke.

 

SCVDem

(5,103 posts)
112. Meanwhile Bill and D.L Hughley are
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 12:38 PM
Jun 2017

smoking a fat one laughing their asses off at all this faux outrage.

Meanwhile, tRump is about to remove the employer paid birth control coverage based on religious or MORAL? objections!

We Dems seem to get easily distracted.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
116. I saw the "N word" spray painted on the side of a building downtown. Was it racist?
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 12:47 PM
Jun 2017

My first thought was, if it was sprayed by a white person, then yes, it was racist. But if it was sprayed by a black person then it's not racist.

Either the word is offensive or its not offensive. We should not have a double standard on who gets to use a word or not. If a person, regardless of color, doesn't want to hear the word then that person, regardless of color, should stop using the word. Period.

moondust

(19,917 posts)
118. I thought "PC" was a thing of the past.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 12:56 PM
Jun 2017

Last edited Sat Jun 3, 2017, 01:40 PM - Edit history (1)

Isn't that what the election was about and why they voted for the Dumpster?




Justice

(7,182 posts)
119. It is not okay for any person to say that - Cornel West or Bill Maher
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 01:01 PM
Jun 2017

I am tired of people saying it is okay for African Americans to use word - it is not.

It is not okay for Maher to say it either. But the fact that African Americans use it - including very famous ones - really gives an excuse for people like Maher or others to use it. I don't agree but they do it.

It's racist - period. Making exceptions for certain people undermines this fact.

stillsoleft

(80 posts)
121. I was never comfortable with the "blogga please" segment he used to do
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 01:31 PM
Jun 2017

Cleary making a play on words on a phrase he knew was off limits to him, but trying to make a joke about it none the less.

Maher seriously has bias issues - he won't even tolerate guests trying to reason with him about his Islam phobia. He is often extremely insensitive towards women, liberals and people whose views differ from his.

Louie C.K. and Schumer walk the edge of insensitivity as well. Though I don't think they has the bias issues Maher does.

As for the left's reaction - clearly the left experiences shame on a level the right isn't even capable of.

I suspect this is because the left is way more sensitive and thus experiences emotions far more intensely than the right and one of those emotions is fear. In this case it's the fear of doing something wrong, or being bad. Shame.

We feel shame for being identified with Maher and Griffin.

We feel shame for being identified with Anthony Weiner, or Elliot Spitzer.

It would be great if we could get a better handle on shame. But I wouldn't want us to become less sensitive, because that's where our compassion and empathy come from.

Who you feel more compassion for, whether it's a comedian who was insensitive and is now being attacked, or the people he was being insensitive to, depends on you feel more identified with.

I think it was Einstein who said we need to widen our circle of compassion.

deurbano

(2,891 posts)
133. Good points. We think of who might be harmed in the quest for the perfect zinger.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 02:40 PM
Jun 2017

This is not an exact science, but we make an effort to do the right thing.... and to consider the ramifications of lending our approval to (or even just ignoring) actions and words that are at odds with our values and ideals.

Or we could be like the other side and aggressively ignore the violation of every value we have claimed to hold dear (as the the evangelicals have done with 45, Limbaugh, etc.) just because the guy doing the violating is sorta on "our side."

Maher could at least have bleeped the word from the later broadcast. I think we have all heard "house nigger," and that could have just slipped out, but it would have been funnier to say "house negro," anyway, since it's an historical reference and "negro" sounds archaic. (Though, on this thread I just learned those slaves tended to be the products of the white masters' rapes of slave women, so not really "funny" at all.) At any rate, why not bleep it from the later airing if it just slipped out?


underthematrix

(5,811 posts)
126. I'm African American. I watched the video so I could understand the context
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 01:47 PM
Jun 2017

The politician he was talking to invited him to go in the field with him. Bill Maher laughed and said I'm a House n***er. That's the context.

I sent him this tweet:




I'm not bothered by him using the term but I am bothered that he thinks it's funny because really it's not.
 

Fluke a Snooker

(404 posts)
129. I'm actually far more angry at Ben Sasse for LAUGHING at the "joke"
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 01:59 PM
Jun 2017

If I were there, I would have been either neutral or offended. Ben Sasse, though, can not be excused for this, and in fact should be condemned just as much as Maher. Ben Sasse is the REAL racist here, and THIS SHOULD BE FRONT AND CENTER, not Maher's comedic tongue.

JenniferJuniper

(4,496 posts)
136. So do you think we should burn
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 03:17 PM
Jun 2017

all copies of Gone With the Windows and Huckleberry Finn? The second of which is one my 15 year old son's summer reading list? Context, please.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
138. It's not wrong when "we" do it.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 04:24 PM
Jun 2017

It's only wrong when "they" do it. That's the "context" everyone keeps going on about.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
144. No, that is not the context that "everyone" is using.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 05:18 PM
Jun 2017

The context is #1 he's a comedian; #2 he was making a zinger joke spontaneously, off the cuff; #3 he was responding to a term used by the interviewee that hearkened back historically to a slave term (workin' in the fields); $4 he has no history of it or any indication he's racist.

When a comedian makes spontaneous jokes, it's bound to happen that he oversteps the boundaries. It happens. To everyone. It would happen to you, too.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
145. That really truly is the context people are talking about.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 05:33 PM
Jun 2017

There is a large contingency of DUers who are so ideologically entrenched that they are unable to determine when someone from the left does something wrong.

Making a joke about slave hierarchy while using the n word is unacceptable conduct for a white comedian. But I'm honestly not surprised Maher said what he said because Maher is and always has been a self-centered bigot. This just happens to be the latest of his "missteps."

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
153. I see. So you just generally don't like him, no matter what he does. So you're not able to judge
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 10:37 PM
Jun 2017

You're not able to judge this joke objectively.

It was wrong, no doubt about it. But I and some others cut him some slack for a mistake. This has happened repeatedly with comedians. It's par for the course when you speak and joke as often as he and some others do spontaneously, and try to push the envelope.

So I cut him slack for that. And other comedians. Doesn't mean it's okay. But if it's not planned and not the usual thing for the comedian, and he knows he screwed up.

I know he's not a bigot. Nor is he perfect. Nor do I agree with everything he thinks or says....and guess what? I don't require that, to find someone insightful, funny, and smart.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
152. Bravo! (or Brava!, whichever applies, since I don't know your gender)
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 06:38 PM
Jun 2017

Thank you for speaking rationally.

Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Bill Maher Uses Racial Sl...