Bernie and Jane Sanders, under FBI investigation for bank fraud, hire lawyers

[TomCADem]

Source: CBS News

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) and his wife, Jane Sanders have hired prominent defense attorneys, amid an FBI investigation into a loan Jane Sanders obtained to expand Burlington College while she was its president, CBS News confirms.

Politico Magazine first reported the Sanders had hired lawyers to defend them in the probe. Sanders top adviser Jeff Weaver told CBS News the couple has sought legal protection over federal agents' allegations from a January 2016 complaint accusing then-President of Burlington College, Ms. Sanders, of distorting donor levels in a 2010 loan application for $10 million from People's United Bank to purchase 33 acres of land for the institution.

According to Politico, prosecutors might also be looking into allegations that Sen. Sanders' office inappropriately urged the bank to approve the loan.

Burlington attorney and Sanders supporter Rich Cassidy has reportedly been hired to represent Sen. Sanders. And high-profile Washington defense attorney Larry Robbins, who counseled Libby "Scooter" Robbins, former Chief of Staff for the Vice President, is protecting Jane Sanders.

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-fbi-investigation-for-bank-fraud-hire-lawyers/

[OhNo-Really]

1. Altruism?

Jane didn't personally benefit.

Small potatoes

[BainsBane]

11. Ah, incorrect

You clearly haven't read about the facts of the case.

[Persisted]

27. You might wish to familarize yourself with the facts. nt

[azureblue]

45. A GOP created incarnation of Benghazi

The GOP created this out of nothing, just as they did Ms. Clinton's emails, in hopes they can divert attention from Trump's corruption and betrayal of America to the Russians. The GOP is working a plan right now to attack and bring down strong Democratic leaders, so here their attack on Bernie.

There is nothing to this at all, and it will cost millions and make the GOP look stupid, again, but they won't care if that's what happens.

[Persisted]

52. Did the GoP force the bank to file an SAR?

I agree with you that toensing is a little shit.

I agree with you that the parishioner claims are full of shit.

But if Peoples Bank went ahead and filed an SAR regarding the transaction, how is that part of a GOP conspiracy?

[calimary]

2. Welcome to DU, TomCADem!

Here's hoping they've snapped up the best defense lawyers and can monopolize them for awhile - so those lawyers won't be available to trump & comp.

[Cha]

3. Hey calimary..

Tom has been here since May 2009!

[calimary]

61. I think this has happened before, too.

I go by low post counts. But I do know there are those of us here who have new names since that hacking debacle here during the last election. Since I'm never sure how to tell the difference, I just welcome 'em anyway.

What the heck? All the good guys need to feel like they're welcome here - or STILL welcome here.

[DonViejo]

81. 10,000 + posts is considered to be a low post count?

[calimary]

99. It was lower by at least three digits when I first did that.

[C Moon]

4. It's been an interesting end of the week:

President Obama, Sen. Nancy Pelosi , and now Sen. Bernie Sanders.
Hmmmm....I smell a GOP-Putin rat.

[iluvtennis]

5. Yep, more diversionary tactics. Trumpism at its best. GAH

[Pauldg47]

14. Me too.

[Alice11111]

15. For sure...how he has time to be prez w all the lies he spreads and golf is beyond me

1st meeting at 630AM...sociopathic energy?

[MontanaMama]

55. Maybe...

I'm hopeful his nightly two scoops, shitty diet and lack of sleep lead to natural consequences...

[Sunlei]

19. can really tell early what Senators/ Congress seats Republicans want 2018

[Docreed2003]

26. This...

And I pointed it out in another thread last night.

This story reeks of stirring shit to divide those of us on the left. If Jane did anything inappropriate, I support any punishment that fits the crime. That being said, this stinks of the same kind of bullshit allegations the Clintons have faced for twenty five plus years. I think that's especially true when you consider that this controversy is being driven by a RW nutjob.

I may be wrong and if I am I'll come to this forum and plead a "Mea culpa" but the timing of this shit is just too convenient.

[Persisted]

30. This complaint was filed over a year ago why didn't Sanders address it then? nt

[Docreed2003]

34. You know when I first heard about this??

Last year during the primaries. This story isn't new, the FBI investigation is the new portion of the story.

Ask yourself a better question: why is this being pushed now? (Especially considering the whole controversy was pushed by a right wing zealot).

I can't speak for Sanders, but I can say that the timing of this combined with the recent demonization of Nancy Pelosi is a little covenient, don't you think?

I repeat what is said: if there were crimes committed, Jane should face the punishment. My point was this "outrage" seems to be a convenient way to stir up shit amongst those of us on the left.

[Persisted]

36. Apparently you didn't read the complaint.

Toensing is a precocious little shit but one of the allegations he made is utterly startling.

Let me put it to you this way... If there is any basis in fact to his final allegation then Bernie Sanders never should have run.

[Docreed2003]

38. And I would suggest you read my comment again...

A). I can't speak for Sanders
B). If there was a crime committed, then punishment should be handed down

I'm not playing apologist here. My point remains, the timing is suspicious and I feel the intention is to further divide the left.

[Persisted]

40. And I'm suggesting your timeline is off...

Because if Toensing is correct about what the bank filed, then Jane and Bernie Sanders went into a presidential race knowing that that transaction was under federal investigation.

Like I said, read his final allegation. It's the only bit of information that means a damn thing in that entire complaint.

[azureblue]

47. and his allegation

is based on nothing at all. Read it and follow the facts. Just like Clinton's emails, they lead to nothing. But you knew that already.

[Persisted]

49. He alleges that the bank filed an SAR.

That's a fairly specific allegation. If that's true, then that is what triggered the underlying investigation and not the parishioner bullshit that toensing is pushing. And frankly if it is true, I'd like to know exactly when the Sanders became aware that this had been filed.

The archdiocese's currently claiming that the parishioners claims are bullshit because Jane Sanders overpaid for the property by 4 million therefore there was no loss to the parish. I don't see how this particularly helps Jane Sanders but this particular nugget of information was given to me by a number of Bernie supporters last night.


We know from news reports that FBI and FDIC investigators have visited Vermont and Florida, interviewing Witnesses.

We also know that Bernie Sanders' lawyer contacted a potential witness in this case and was referred to her attorney.

This is the point that I've made over and over.... toensing is an unctous little shit. But if Peoples Bank did file an SAR then the Sanders are fucked.

[George II]

82. The story is about the Sanders hiring lawyers, which they just did....

...that's why it's being "pushed" now.

The only timing is that regarding the hiring of lawyers. Instead of asking why the story in general is being pushed now, why not ask why lawyers weren't hired many months ago? Perhaps the investigation is yielding results?

[Docreed2003]

95. I would just suggest..

Just like the BS Clinton "investigations", that we should press the pause button before convicting Jane Sanders in the court of public opinion.


That's just my 2c, fwiw. (Btw, thank you for your posts George...I often wish that we had an upvote button for posts when I see your thoughtful posts.)

[R B Garr]

121. +1000, and the story was started by a Vermont newspaper reporting, not

just the Republican Toensing. The VTdigger researched it from reports from two other Burlington employees, which is when Toensing picked it up.

[C Moon]

149. More GOPutin dirty work, and the media eats it up.

We are living through the largest constitutional crisis in the history of the U.S., and we're hearing about this bull shit?
Give me a fucking break!
We should have Putin/Pence/Trump/McConnell/Ryan crimes spewing out of the news—without stopping.

[QC]

150. Plenty of people here are eating it up, too, though

the most, um, persistent of them has been banned.

[C Moon]

151. Seriously? I was wondering about that. Good news!! Thanks! :)

[Cha]

153. BS is always pointing his finger at the Democratic

Party.. but, that's conveniently forgotten.

[Persisted]

31. Okay....you've listed 2 Democrats not under federal investigation for bank fraud.

How do they relate to Jane and Bernie Sanders?

[Goprox]

32. Did the FBI begin investigatind Sanders just this week?

Or has he been under investigation for a while?

[Persisted]

46. If Toensing is correct, and the bank filed an SAR, the investigation

began the moment it was received by the feds..... possibly even before he chose to run.

[George II]

127. The Sanders hired their lawyers this week. That is why this is LBN.

[former9thward]

142. This investigation started in January, 2016.

Yes someone affiliated with the Trump campaign filed the complaint. But the investigation started with Obama's Attorney General and an Obama U.S. Attorney. If there was nothing to it the investigation would not have gone on this long.

[jmowreader]

6. Who the hell is Libby "Scooter" Robbins?

[George II]

128. I think it's a transcription typo. The attorney is Robbins.

[murielm99]

8. Jane's daughter profited.

https://medium.com/@m.ferrer/nepotism-at-burlington-college-1a9af167ae9b

[Cha]

9. Aloha Muriel..

If you take the "@" out of the link it goes to the article..

https://medium.com/m.ferrer/nepotism-at-burlington-college-1a9af167ae9b

[murielm99]

10. Thanks.

I self-deleted once, and was just trying to get the link to work again. You saved me.

[Cha]

12. I was replying

to you on that one when I got to notice you had self-deleted.

So I followed you here.. Mahalo to you!

That happened before awhile ago with a link to that site and I saw it explain how if you take the @ out it works.

[pandr32]

112. There was also that resort in the Bahamas

...a personal friend of Bernie's, Leopold, who Bernie previously appointed Burlington City Treasurer has a son who purchased property in the Bahamas and the college, under Jane's direction, sent students there. Bernie described his friend as family. Leopold's son's Bahama resort filled with students from Burlington College's "study abroad" program as they learned how to snorkel with college funds.

Aloha Cha! We are doing well on the Big Island

[Cha]

129. Aloha, pandr!

I miss you! Happy you're doing so well on Big Island..

My sister from San Diego came to visit here for 3 weeks.. so we had fun!

[pandr32]

156. So glad you had fun

I enjoy visits from mainland family, too--loving it here but miss those left behind.

[Cha]

157. Yes, I so miss my Mainland Family and

Friends.. they just have to come out here to visit.. getting another sister and her fam in August!

[pandr32]

161. September for me!

Looking forward to it. Aloha Cha!

[JI7]

147. in a small state wouldn't this not be too unusual . everyone would have more of a connection to each

other and know people just because of the small population.

[azureblue]

50. IOW

As you can see in the tax filings, full disclosure was made. There was no attempt to hide anything whatsoever. The linked article cleverly makes a few factual assertions, then throws in allegations and personal attacks when the gaps occur. It doesn't take much brains to see that certain parts of the story were left out or glossed over, to make the case against Jane Sanders.

I will remind you, however, that a college president is not the one who has the last say in doling out the money. That is what a board of directors, and a financial committee, in some cases, does and approves. J. Sanders can make recommendations, but she can't hand out the money on her whim. It doesn't work that way, and you know that.

Your attempt at smearing J. Sanders is pathetic. Go peddle your crap someplace else where people are stupid enough to fall for it.

[murielm99]

117. We should discuss tax filings.

You're right about that. Bernie has never disclosed his taxes, like Trump.

BTW, I have seen HRC slammed up one side and down the other on DU. She has been told to be silent. Lately, Pelosi has been the target. Corey Booker has bee criticized for no good reason. When their defenders speak up, their posts are alerted, and often those people are silenced. Bernie is no different. We can criticize him if we want to do that. Oh wait. There is one difference: He is not a Democrat.

[QC]

138. Skinner disagrees.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/125912070

[Persisted]

141. Skinner never mentioned taxes. He indicated that BS should be treated as a Democrat.

Think about that for a second.

[philly_bob]

13. Exaggerating income levels on a loan application. Venial sin. /nt

[Alice11111]

16. I hope someday we can compare DTs loan applications to his taxes.

[Sunlei]

18. "pledging" millions to a school/charity & then not donating-something Trump has done countless times

curious who the donators of the "pledged" 10 million were.

[Persisted]

28. It's a federal crime to misrepresent what a 3rd party is giving you when

attempting to secure a federally-backed loan.

[hrmjustin]

48. Her mismanagement helped the college go under so yes it is a sin.

Criminal I don't know.

[Sunlei]

17. 10 million dollars for 33 acres. bank was willing to accept "pledged money" that is not the same as

donations received. people can "pledge" a billion dollars and not ever send the money.

I guess the Bank is not happy with their 33 acres they repossess and can not sell for the 10 million the bank said it was "worth".

good idea for Sanders to Lawyer up vs any Bank.

[TexasTowelie]

20. Actually, no.

Burlington College sold off some of the land to pay for the renovation and furnishings of the buildings that were on campus along with other debt service, so while the bank foreclosed on the improved buildings the land was bought by another developer.

[Sunlei]

21. oh so the bank got buildings & sold- and the land was sold to "another developer" 33 acres for 10mil

what a mess. The loan ap was for "pledged" donations, not 10 million of in hand donations.

Banks will approve a lot of loans they shouldn't have, if in 'worse case' they wouldn't be happy with the original 33 acres, the "required" 20% down and improvements to foreclose on.

[TexasTowelie]

25. The buildings were not foreclosed until May 2017 since BC still owed the bank $3.7 million.

There is only one piece of property remaining and it looks like it will sell for about $3 million to the same developer so the bank lost money on the loan.

There is also the question of whether there was fraud committed when Sanders arranged the loan. The allegations are that the amounts that the donors pledged and when those pledges would be received do not agree with what Sanders represented when she was negotiating the loan.

[Sunlei]

158. what did the bank lose? They didn't own the property, they weren't the sellers. They made the loan p

loan papers.

[karynnj]

22. Think again that land is very valuable

It is a large stretch of land right on Lake Champlain. Not to mention Burlington has a severe housing shortage. This was very prime land when the developer bought it.

In fact, the plan was always that the college would sell off part of the land, which it bought at a relatively low price, to cut its mortgage.

[Sunlei]

23. The kind of land we all wish we could have bought for 100 an acre 100 years ago :P

or maybe even "free land" if they were first to kill off the native americans who lived there for a thousand years or more.

[karynnj]

24. Burlington college bought the land when the Catholic Church had to sell it

The land included a large imposing former orphanage that the college had partly renovated for classes and offices.

The Burlington lakefront has some of the most gorgeous sunsets I have ever seen - over the lake with the Adirondacks in the background. ( I am very well traveled so, this is not for lack of seeing other places. There are very few places where you get a sunset over a large lake and mountain.)

[Persisted]

29. Actually....several Bernie supporters posted an article last night that

stated that Jane Sanders overpaid for the property by 4 mil.

[karynnj]

35. link please

I live in Burlington and I have never heard anyone say that.

[Persisted]

39. Apparently the Archdiocese is claiming they got 10 mil on a 6 mil property.....

“At the time, we were very satisfied with the $10 million purchase price on a property that was assessed … at $6 million. So the offer from Burlington College was about $4 million more than the property was worth,” says Coyne, who was not bishop at the time of the transaction.

http://digital.vpr.net/post/catholic-church-rejects-claim-sanders-wife-caused-financial-harm#stream/0

Essentially the Archdiocese is claiming that they didn't lose money on the deal because Sanders overpaid by 4 million, and that's why the Catholic Church shouldn't be investigated under Toensing's complaint by the feds pursuant to the complaint of their own parishioners.

[karynnj]

53. Is the market value of your house equal to the assessed value?

The assessed value also ignores any potential value if developed further. The fact is that the diocese was very happy to have the money for a property that they were not using for much of anything when they needed money due to judgments against them for abused boys.

If you add the two sales of the land to the well established developer who is now working on it, it sold for about 10. 65 million -- about 6.5% more than they bought it for. Clearly, they Sanders did not overpay by 4 million dollars! Not to mention, the person who brokered the deal was Andy Pomerleau - the prestigious, well respected real estate person and philanthropist in the area - and uncle to Marcella Leahy.

[Persisted]

56. Um....you've conflated assesed value and appraised value. She paid 10 mil on a 6 mil appraisal....

"Coyne says an appraisal of the property prior to the sale yielded a $6 million valuation."

I mean, I did give you the link.

Further.... you make the claim that the church is now making money. Can you show me how that's possible, taking into account the 10 years of difference between the two transactions, accounting for fees, maintenance, inflation, and costs?

Did they put off paying their pedophilia settlements for 10 years?

What you're suggesting is that pedophilia settlement payers made money.... Jane Sanders got a 200k golden parachute.... and the students of Burlington College got fucked.

[karynnj]

78. I did not say the church is making money - I said that the land was sold in 2 pieces for a total of

10.65 million in 2016 and 2017. My point was that the sales were for $10 million in 2010 and $10.65 million in 2016/2017. Note that 1010 is NOT 10 years ago, but 7 years ago. My point is that had the true value been $6 million, then the NEW owner of the land also grossly overpaid. Both Farrell and Pomerleau are far more likely to know the value of the land than the Bishop, who was not even in Vermont when the church owned the land and not party to any decision to sell the land.

The church got their money in 2010 when they sold. Here is the local TV story and - it mentioned that pedeophilia charges were a reason they needed money. http://www.wcax.com/story/12532586/burlington-college-to-buy-diocese-property I have no idea where you get a 10 year wait from.

Note that the bishop refers to an appraisal a year before -- the sale was in May 2010. Do you remember anything about spring 2009? Do you remember that the first half of 2009 was the trough of the largest economic crash since the great depression? I am not surprised at all that any appraisal done in 2009 would have come out much lower than in mid 2008 or 2010.

Yes, the Catholic Church got money from a valuable piece of property that they owned. They used it to pay part of the legal judgments against them.

As to Burlington College, they had a huge dilemma in 2010. They had a small building (now the COTS building on the corner of North street and North Avenue - this is the blue building at the TV link), no housing in a town with a less than 3% vacancy rate and no land to ever build any on, and only about 200 students. Their accreditation was shaky and their courses then and later were not that of a typical college - meaning that transferring the credits to most other colleges would be difficult for many classes. The enrollment was unlikely to increase given these constraints and keeping even the adjunct faculty they had to offer the classes needed to maintain accreditation was a balancing act.

The purchase of the North Avenue land was a calculated gamble. The plan was that they would sell off a portion of the land at a profit to a developer who would build housing and a dorm for the college. Here, they might have had more trouble than expected getting approval from the town. This would have lower the carrying costs of the land. In parallel, the college,now with a campus, would expand its program and increase the number of students. BOTH of these components had to happen to make this work. In 2014, Burlington College only had 290 students ( http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/education/2014/07/07/burlington-college-probation/12301801/ ) far below the number needed to be successful.

However, Jane, who did get the college accredited in 2007, was pushed out in 2011. As you can see, they lost accreditation in 2014 - three years later. That likely doomed the college. I know I would have never agree for one of my kids to chose an uncredited college with tuition that was higher than some more highly regarded schools. At the time it closed, it was in a death spiral.

The existing students were considered when they closed the college:

The college worked out a deal to get students accepted at other schools -- any of the state colleges, Champlain College, Green Mountain College or Marlboro College. Their credits will transfer and the tuition they currently pay honored, and they can graduate on time. http://www.wcax.com/story/31984105/burlington-college-to-close-down

Given that they were down to 90 students, I would bet that - much as they likely hated the school closing - they likely had more available to them at whichever of these colleges fit them best. The only one I know anything about is Champlain College which is a good college compared to burlington College. The students, especially those who started in 2014, 2015 and those who were to start in 2016 - all AFTER the school lost accreditation, were actually protected from the consequences of choosing a college that was unaccredited because it was shaky.

[Persisted]

86. Well...you seem to be using the 2009 appraisal to determine 2016/17

sale values. I think that's a stretch don't you? Would you sell your house based on a nearly 10 year old appraisal?

What we do know is that the church itself is claiming that the appraised value of the land in the 2010 transaction was six million dollars. Jane Sanders oversaw the sale for 10.

Fast forward 7 years later and whatever Burlington college did to the land resulted in only a 650,000 price increase. We don't have a new appraisal so there's no way of determining if this was a good price or not.

This may all be above board, and frankly reasonably explainable.

But the fact remains that if the bank did file an SAR Jane Sanders is obligated by law to answer for it.

[karynnj]

102. Your reading comprehension and logic needs a lot of work

I am NOT using the 2009, appraisal for anything - you are! I am saying that in 2016/2017 the same land sold for $10.65 million. YOUR post used the Bishop's statement that the land was appraised at $6 million in 2009 to say that Jane overpayed in 2010. My point is that number is not reasonable as it would suggest that property in Burlington would have appreciated by over 75% since 2010. I KNOW that is not the case. A sale of a piece of property, especially a unique piece of property, is a better guide to its real value than an appraisal is.

Additionally, an appraisal in 2009 does not equal the value in 2010 and Tony Pomerleau, not Sanders brokered the deal. He is the top real estate guy in Burlington. As to the recent price, it seems likely that the developer would get a good deal in the second sale. The college needed to sell - he did not need to buy, though it increased the area he had to develop.

The price paid was not the issue. The statement of the donor's contributions is and for a non profit, that is much more complicated than it might seem as it is hard to know how to reflect bequests in wills.

[Persisted]

109. Isn't Tony P a very close friend of Sanders who did the bridge loan on the original deal?

How very interesting.

[karynnj]

111. He is also a major philanthropist who has done many good things for Burlington and Vermont

His niece Marcelle is Pat Leahy's wife. I think the relationship with Sanders stems back to working together for Burlington when he was mayor.

[Persisted]

113. After People's Bank pulled out of the failed land deal, did he stay in? nt

[karynnj]

120. He brokered the original deal when the land was purchased

The chairman of the board of Trustees at the end was a Pomerleau Real Estate VP -- https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/05/17/burlington-college-campus-purchase-still-coming-back-haunt-jane-sanders

This article has more details.

It was a gamble - and it failed. Note that many close to it, still spoke of it simply needing another year. However, if you look at the series of the number of students -- what is clear is that it was not even close to ontrack in attracting enough students. Had things clicked perfectly, the enrollment and the faculty would have grown, the Farrel deal would have happened earlier and the numbers would have fallen in line.

As to whether pledges were overstated, it was not just Jane Sanders, but her CFO, and the board of directors who would have put that estimate together.

Incidentally, if you look at the aerial photograph, you can see how spectacular the the property is though it will not show you the wonderful sunsets over the lake with the NYS mountains in the background.

[Persisted]

124. Well, I think you highlight the essential problem here. It was a gamble.

Toensing's complaint is bullshit. It all comes down to what the bank did. If an SAR was filed, then it isn't a GOP hack job.

[mahina]

107. Thank you for your posts.

The way this has been portrayed, you'd think the 08 crash had o impact, and that the college closed immediately after this deal.

I trust that Bernie and Jane didn't break the law.

Wondering where CBS's stories on all the trump fraud and money laundering cases are, and whether they will be echoed here with as much vigor.

[QC]

123. One would also think that it's highly unusual for small liberal arts

colleges to close, from some of the commentary here.

I work in higher ed, so I follow the the Chronicle and IHE closely, and a lot of colleges like Burlington are circling the drain now. They're too expensive to run, church schools now get less money from their denominations than before, students are now more concerned about cost and debt and want more "practical" degrees, etc.

Some of those troubled colleges look at the numbers, decide that the jig is up, and announce that they are closing and will help place their students in nearby colleges. Others roll the dice on things like new facilities. Burlington chose the latter and came up snake eyes. If the gamble had worked, they would be a success story and a model for other struggling colleges.

If there's wrongdoing it needs to be punished, but the glee here is unseemly, if totally unsurprising.

[R B Garr]

125. It's also unsurprising the continued unfounded accusations against others who are

merely discussing current news.

[Sunlei]

159. The bank/agent probably sues because they want that 4 million "fee" they wrote into the contract.

Banks always wring out every penny from whatever 'loans' or mortgages they contract. They always win.

[Sgent]

37. Although not the same as donations received

a pledge like this is enforceable similar to a contract -- the University could have sued the person(s) who made the pledge if they didn't pay.

[Persisted]

41. Indeed..... and worse, could have sued estates.

Imagine that for a second, you think you're about to inherit a million from Grandma only to find out she's listed on somebody's loan application.

[karynnj]

114. Just being listed by someone else on a loan application does not bind them or their estate

If it is in the will - then the charity will get it.

[Persisted]

118. I'm not saying it would be a sucessful claim. But would you appreciate the possible

trouble and worry, and legal fees?

So far at least two older donors have been interviewed regarding their donations/estates. I guess they get to bear the cost of consulting attorneys o this matter.


https://vtdigger.org/2017/05/04/burlington-college-donor-says-never-signed-pledge/

[TexasBushwhacker]

146. The bank is responsible for due diligence

They're supposed to make sure the land is valued for the loan amount. Furthermore, if the loan was for more than 80% of the land's value, one would think that Burlington would have to carry an insurance policy in case of foreclosure.

[dembotoz]

33. Bengazi only aimed at Bernie

Is there substance?
Who knows
What we do know this is sop for gop
And we are falling for it again

[NurseJackie]

42. Oh my! This looks bad.

[pirateshipdude]

65. Like with Trump, going after the money, I would like to see both tax returns.

Full out tax returns, not just summaries of a year or two.

[Persisted]

44. How is what Jane Sanders did a Democratic problem?

If, as Toensing alleges, People's Bank reported this transaction to the feds, what precisely the fuck are Democrats supposed to do about that?

[ciaobaby]

57. +1,000

[Persisted]

69. Well, you've sidestepped the question about the bank. And I get why.

This has nothing to do with Democrats.


If the People's Bank has filed an SAR on this transaction, there is not a goddamn thing the Democratic party can do about that.

The Democratic party isn't responsible for the actions of Jane Sanders.

You still haven't answered the question what do you actually expect the Democratic party to do in this circumstance.

[Red Knight]

83. Strawman

I never said that the bank problem was the problem of the Democratic party.

Nice try.

I said the DIVISIVENESS is the problem.

And yes--it IS a problem.

So how do we fix it?

Continue to battle to 2016 primary? Will that do it?

I don't really think reigniting this battle helps anything.

So if you'd like me to attack Hillary for something so that we can get a mini war going back and forth for the millionth time--you're wasting your time. I've been there--done that--over it.

The future of this country is what I care about--my son and daughter's future--and their children. I could give a crap about Hillary's emails or Bernie's bank. In the end either of those candidates would have put us in a much better world than the one we're in today.

We can't keep losing to Republicans.

The world can't afford it.

That's the battle that interests me.

[Persisted]

92. Do you consider this thread divisive? nt

[BlueMTexpat]

85. Why the heck are you

combining Clinton supporters with Trump supporters in ANY way whatsoever?

If there was ANY fraud in these transactions, that fraud deserves to be investigated. There is certainly a lot that is questionable about Jane's tenure at BC - including why and how she ever got the job in the first place.

That is, of course, beyond the scope of this investigation. But merely pointing out that this whole story has been questionable from the get-go does NOT mean that ANY Clinton supporter has ANYTHING in common with Trumpets.

Saying that it does is in itself divisive, which is strange coming grom one who purports to promote unity.

And thank you for voting for Hillary. If only all Bernie supporters had done so, we would all be in happier circumstances today.

[Red Knight]

88. Fair enough

deleted

[BlueMTexpat]

148. Thanks! eom

[Trial_By_Fire]

89. Sanders supporters did not cause clinton to lose the election...

Maybe when people here realize that fact, we can have civil discussions.

[Cha]

154. Oh, we're having civil discussions.

BS is Always pointing his finger at the Democratic Party.. that is conveniently forgotten.

[David__77]

63. Thank you.

It's poisonous.

[hrmjustin]

51. Damn! This is the first I heard that the senator himself is being looked at.

Hopefully this doesn't go to court but Jane Sanders mismanagement of Burlington College is not a witch Hunt. It is well documented.

[Persisted]

74. This is what indicates to me that an SAR was filed by the bank.

I'm not sure the FBI in the FDIC start investigating someone just because of political hack makes allegations.


But that political hack has made the allegation that the bank itself has filed an SAR regarding the transaction.

That's got considerable more weight than some bullshit claim by Toesnsing.

[Bayard]

58. The story about Jane Sanders is nothing new

The story about Bernie sounds like an effort to shut him up.

[vi5]

59. So being under investigation means someone did something wrong....

....hmmmm....who else do we know that has been under investigation more than their fair share of times?

Nope, can't think of anyone.

[Kolesar]

60. Would think the Trump Justice Dept would go easy on Jane Nader

Ok, it's a stretch.

[nycbos]

62. Ruh-roh

[David__77]

64. I don't care.

...

[pirateshipdude]

67. This is how Trump supporters respond too. " I don't care."

That is the real problem.

[David__77]

104. It's not my real problem.

...

[pirateshipdude]

122. If we base an argument on hypocrisy, then it is all of our problem. Eom

[Jamaal510]

116. You cared so little

that you decided to respond to this thread and kick it for more exposure.

[judy]

66. Who the hell is Libby "Scooter" Robbins??

Whoever wrote this article, is quite confused and careless...

How much did Jane and Bernie profit from this transaction?
Maybe she was wrong to distort donor levels if she did...but it was not for personal profit but to expand Burlington College.
But I guess expanding educational institutions is most likely a crime anyway under Betsy De Vos...

[Madam45for2923]

68. "The loan was approved by the financial board at the college."

And as for the claim that Ms. Sanders manipulated the loan application, Weaver said, "The loan was approved by the financial board at the college."

I guess the financial board should be able to provide some answers about this.

[Persisted]

71. I suspect that that's who the FBI and the FDIC are talking to. nt

[Madam45for2923]

73. Weaver seems to think that that means it was all good or their responsibility? Hmmmm

[Persisted]

76. Well what the hell else is he going to say?

If the bank did file an SAR which is what the complaint alleges then it is not to Jane Sanders legal benefit to take responsibility for that transaction.

[Madam45for2923]

84. I understand. Was just trying to see what Weaver was getting at.

[Persisted]

103. He's spreading responsibility. Which is what makes me think a SAR has been filed. nt.

[Madam45for2923]

110. Aha Makes sense about responsibility What it SAR? I tried to google it. Is it related to this?

https://www.fincen.gov/reports/sar-stats

If so, am still not sure what it means?

[Persisted]

115. Yes. Toensing's complaint is full of shit, but he did drop

an interesting nugget. He claims that an SAR was filed by Peoples Bank to cover their asses.

Frankly it sounds a hell of a lot more probable that a federal investigation was launched after the filing of an SAR rather than some letter by a republican crackpot.

[Trial_By_Fire]

72. The Daily Sanders Hate thread...

These types of posts are doing a great job in further dividing the Dem Party.

[hrmjustin]

75. It is news and belongs in this forum.

[Trial_By_Fire]

79. Not the hate... and this been going on since 2016...

A VT republican started this entire J.Sanders issue. If this was about
a Dem Senator's wife or even a repub's wife, all threads on it would last 1
day.

But the hate goes on....wonder why?

[hrmjustin]

90. This investigation exists because of the events that led up to the closing of Burlington College.

Jane Sanders actions have a big hand in that. And they made the news by hiring lawyers.

Now is there bitterness about 2016? Sure! But this is news and not a hate thread.

[Persisted]

94. If the bank filed an SAR, are they being manipulated by the Vermont Republican? nt

[George II]

130. The lawyers were just hired this week.

[Persisted]

77. I fail to see how this has anything to do with the Democratic Party.

Bernie Sanders was an independent senator from Vermont at the time the actions took place. Jane Sanders was also unaffiliated with the Democratic Party.


Currently Sanders is running as an independent for reelection this year. Absent a Democratic Challenger, I hope he retains his seat and retains his ability to caucus with the Democrats in the Senate.

Barring wwlll wishes that this ends quickly, what else should the Democratic party do at this point?

[Trial_By_Fire]

80. "What else should the Democratic party do at this point?"

Are you saying that the Dem party and especially DU posters have no choice
but to pile on the Sanders' hate?

[Persisted]

97. Would you kindly quote "the hate?" nt

[George II]

131. Sanders is going around the country presumably speaking for the Democratic Party....

....(i.e., refers to the Democratic Party as "we&quot . He has a leadership position in the Senate Democratic caucus. Doesn't have anything to do with the Democratic Party?

[Persisted]

134. Certainly the Democratic party bears no responsibility for this particular turn of events.

Is he is mired in the federal investigation, one hopes he would do what is best for the Democratic Party.

[George II]

139. Explain that to all the republicans who will jump on this and use it for all they can get out of it.

[Persisted]

140. I've long given up explaining things to Republicans.

I also think that the constructive disengagement plan of the DNC is working pretty well.

[NurseJackie]

101. LOL! Really? How so?

[Cha]

132. It's in the "news".. deal with it.

[Chasstev365]

87. Funny; I don't recall a single Sanders supporting the baseless Benghazi nonesense

However, some on DU are having a hard time containing their glee over this.

[hrmjustin]

91. Because Jane Sanders actions are really not being contested.

It is clear what she did. The question is whether it was legal or not.

Benghazi was a witch hunt, this at this moment appears to be a reasonable investigation.

[Chasstev365]

93. Has it been proven and how did the post leap to assuming Bernie was in on it?

[hrmjustin]

96. Not in a court of law but loan documents pretty much show she lied about how much the

School raised.

And as for the senator this is the first article I have seen that suggest he is being looked into.

[Chasstev365]

98. Oohhh "a suggestion."

[hrmjustin]

100. Well he is lawyering up.

[Sunlei]

160. She did not lie. "Pledged" donations aren't the same as money in hand. Banks contract allowed for "p

"pledged" donations on the contract, the banks can easily verify exactly how much money is IN the bank account.

Sometimes people who "pledge" a donation don't come through with the donation.

The bank made the loan anyway because they knew 'worse case' they can foreclose on very valuable property. And they did. The bank earned down payment 20%? and points, agents fees and got all the property to resell.

[QC]

106. There are some real misanthropes in the world. n/t

[Gothmog]

105. From my twitter feed

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fpoliticaloasis.freeforums.net%2Fthread%2F9509%2Fjane-sanders-lawyers%3Fpage%3D2

[Hekate]

108. I've decided not to touch this with a 10 foot pole

[R B Garr]

126. Wow, some of those comments after the article are brutal, but

are examples of assessments without censorship.

Thanks for posting!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

143. Twitter is infested with confirmed anti Semites.

[R B Garr]

144. Oh, and racists full of fake news. nt

[murielm99]

145. So now it is anti-semitism?

[Cha]

135. So is deflecting with hogwash.

[Cha]

137. You're deflecting again.

[Doug the Dem]

119. No, Nothing Fishy About This at ALL!

[LiberalLovinLug]

152. And if she did it??????????

MY GAWD THE SANDERS AREN'T PERFECT!!!!!

Just like the Clintons.

So why on a Democratic message board is it so important to make sure the whole world knows they made a mistake?

[LeftishBrit]

155. Is this more 'Crooked Hillary! e-mails! e-mails!' - the Trumpsters trying to create scandals about

their opponents?