'Eliminate North Korea': Trump adviser John Bolton floats 'doable' plan for China to 'reunite...

[DonViejo]

Source: RawStory



‘Eliminate North Korea’: Trump adviser John Bolton floats ‘doable’ plan for China to ‘reunite the Koreas’

TRAVIS GETTYS
26 JUL 2017 AT 13:59 ET

President Donald Trump’s rumored replacement as national security adviser called for China to “eliminate” North Korea’s nuclear program by forcibly merging the nation with South Korea.

John Bolton, the former United Nations ambassador under President George W. Bush and Trump foreign policy adviser, told Fox News he saw no good options for dealing with the hostile state.

“Our options are very limited,” Bolton said. “After 25 years, in my view, of pursuing the wrong policy with North Korea, of trying diplomacy and sanctions to affect their behavior, it was never going to work, it didn’t work through three successive administrations, it won’t work if we try it in year 26.” He said there’s only one long-shot option to avoid U.S. military action against North Korea.

“You’re down now to one diplomatic option, and that’s to convince China that it’s ultimately in their interest to reunite the two Koreas,” Bolton said. “The way you eliminate the North Korean nuclear program is to eliminate North Korea. It’s a hard argument to make, but it’s doable.”

Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/2017/07/eliminate-north-korea-trump-adviser-john-bolton-floats-doable-plan-for-china-to-reunite-the-koreas/

[Initech]

1. File this one under "good luck with that!".

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

2. He salivates at the idea of dead people

Nothing but a meat packer for their base.

[gvstn]

12. But I thought it was the idea of dead Iranians that set his taste buds atingle.

I guess he has branched out and is willing to try a few Koreans if that what it takes to get his war on.

[Johnyawl]

23. You notice he's advocating for the Chinese to do all the work in Korea...

...that leaves our forces free for his war with Iran.

[Stuart G]

3. Well only when there is war and Bolton and Trump are on the front line fighting the battle...

and since Bolton and Trump will be as far away as is possible from that kind of fighting..then this is another dumb, stupid idea. Perhaps one of the stupidest of today.. But Bolton doesn't know history, not even U.S. History of the last 75 years..

Send Bolton back to high school somewhere, have him read some of the last 75 years of history..Especially in Asia. It might help to send Trump also..not sure he knows anything..

[Cosmocat]

4. Hey John - you do know this thing called the Korean War?

China, which is you know, on the border of NORTH Korea, sided WITH NORTH KOREA?

But, sure, just chat them up and they will do North Korea themselves and turn it over to South Korea.

[maxrandb]

11. I'm surprised our glorious leader

has not already done this "deal"

I mean, really, what fucking chance does thousands of years of history against the greatest deal-maker the world has ever known.

Hell, he could have negotiated Jesus' release from death if he had the chance, just ask him

[bitterross]

5. I May get pilloried for this, but

That is actually about the first not completely bat-shit-crazy thing I think I've heard him say. It sounds almost reasonable.

He, at the very least, mentions a diplomatic method rather than the usual "let's nuke 'em until the glow" method. Maybe he sees that Trump would actually like to exercise the nuke option so he's moderating himself.

[xor]

13. I don't think the idea of uniting NK with SK would be unpopular here

I think what would be unpopular is Bolton's idea on how to achieve it. Which might involve some "make it glow" methods.

Even with a non-murderous plan that does it peacefully, there is still a lot to figure out. Such as how to do it without destroying the south korean economy. I don't think they would be able to burden the costs all on their own. That would require a global effort to do right.

[maxrandb]

14. I'm sure China would invest all that blood and treasure

and allow a united Korea to be free and democratic.

I guess Trump could promise China that they could have South Korea as part of the deal.

and this is what passes as "not bat-shit-crazy" to you?

[karynnj]

21. you have a low bar for not bat shit crazy.

Every sensible article on the difficulty of China helping on this issue starts with the fact that China wants North Korea between it and South Korea. They do not want an American aligned one Korea on their border. I have never seen one expert on that area say otherwise. What we have often, under other Presidents, succeeded in doing was working with China to get North Korea to back off its provocatons. In many cases, it did have a temporary positive impact. What was in that for China was that China did not want the instability that NK generated.

This has been done by economic sanctions -- and those had to be approved by China and others because we do very little trade with NK meaning we have no economic leverage. One creative Obama administration idea was to give surplus food to NK where there are many people starving. This was proposed as both humanitarian and as a way to create some trust where there was none. Obviously, it did not work - though it did no harm.

There is no military solution that does not lead to a horrendous number of people dying. China, which was on NK's side in the Korean War is likely to back them again and they would be faced with hordes of refugees.

I have NEVER heard Bolton say anything that represented the values I think the US has. He is a war monger, neocon -- and as we learned when the Republican majority Senate failed to approve him in the SFRC or to confirm him in the Senate, he is a genuinely terrible person.

[geek tragedy]

26. how would reunification happen?

Which government would go away--South or North Korea, and how would you get the other to agree to that?

DPRK not exactly amenable to a transformative merger.

[MosheFeingold]

29. Still bat shit crazy

But at least they are thinking out of the box.

At the least, China-invading talk (and China has been moving troops toward NK and just tested an ICBM interceptor clearly signaling NK) will scare Little Kim and perhaps others.

Perhaps someone will get scared enough to have a quiet little coup, which is the best outcome, sadly.

[vkkv]

32. I'm with you - this is perhaps Bolton's only sane idea..ever! nt

[Alice11111]

55. N Korea and S Korea are meeting, initiated by S Korea.

This is good. I can't see the very diffetent cultures assimilating for some time. Moreover, would N Korea govern jointly, in a democracy, in which he would surely be voted out. They may be able to work something out. He doesn't seem to want to die or kill off his rule of his country. He does not care about his people, obviously. If he strikes us or our allies, he will die, and he knows that.

[underpants]

56. NK has a massive amount of firepower within striking distance of Seoul

About 20 million people live near that city.

[harun]

67. China wouldn't do it and NK wouldn't do it. So... kind of a non-starter.

[Freethinker65]

6. the return of PNAC

[AJT]

20. They would have to change the name....

Program for the Next American Century......it is now the next American Century......

[Aristus]

7. Is Bolton going to do any of the fighting?

(Hint, John: throwing a stapler at them won't do very much good...)

[Mr.Bill]

8. I'm sure China will jump right on

to a plan from John Bolton.

[FairWinds]

9. Bolton never met a war he did not like . .

Here is a better solution.

The Hyper-power needs to sign on the the Nuclear Weapons Ban,
and convince NK to do likewise.

Veterans For Peace

[vkkv]

35. NK won't sign it, obvioulsy.

[FairWinds]

39. How do you know?

They did halt their nuke program in the 1990's.

The US would have to somehow guarantee that the Kim's
would not share the fate of Hussein and Qaddafi.

Please look over the Vets For Peace advisory board, and see
that range of knowledge and experience before you make
blanket statements.

I'll see your John Bolton and raise you our Andrew Bacevich
and Ann Wright.

[vkkv]

40. Bolton wasn't promoting an all world Nuke ban, so your bet makes no sense.

Kim Jong Un is a different ruler than Kim Jong Il.

Pressing Un on a deal that his life will be saved vs. him dying?

Un is not going to sign a no nuke agreement unless a lot of gifts are thrown in - which you did not elaborate on.
Straight ban? Forget it.

[FairWinds]

46. "Bolton wasn't promoting an all world Nuke ban, . ."

Gee, thanks Captain Obvious - I never claimed that he was.

OK, so here is what you do not understand: In the medium and long run,
it is a fool's errand for the US to think it can have nukes (and threaten to use them)
and at the same time prevent other countries to from acquiring them. If it were not
NK, it would be someone else. And it will be.

The only two choices are a fully nuclear armed world (where we are now heading),
or nuclear abolition.

Do you have any idea of the environmental destruction and cost (Trillions)
of the US nuclear arsenal?

[vkkv]

49. Please, go bother someone else.

[FairWinds]

69. Democrats used to stand for peace . .

sad.

You made zero effort to grasp the points raised.

Why do you bother to post?

Veterans For Peace

[vkkv]

70. NK will NOT sign a No Nukes agreement without being showered by billions

in gifts.

Bolton is insanely scary, but his thought that China should pressure NK to reunite with SK makes a lot of sense.

The worldwide No Nukes issue is separate.

Besides, we can barely get energy companies to get off nuclear powered energy generation that poisons lands, water, people..
You think it's going to be easy when it comes to hollowed "national security"?

Don't change the subject and then accuse me of arguing.

I imagine that you were drafted into service because supporting our modern military by joining voluntarily is about as far from being peaceful as one can get.


Now please, go bother someone else.

[Girard442]

10. And there it is, far away on the horizon.

The first sighting of the war that kills us all.

[maxrandb]

15. Has he asked the South Koreans

what they think of this deal?

Fucking nut-bags

[PoliticAverse]

16. "convince China" ... "to reunite the two Koreas". Good luck with that.

[Pauldg47]

17. China cold tell nk we're not selling you your needs any more...

...you have to buy them from sk. ...something on that line.

[Eugene]

18. Bonkers Bolton for National Security Adviser? Now that's scary!

What makes him think China will go along with this, never mind South Korea?

[MountainFool]

19. what? reunite them ... how?

Have the south surrender to the north?
Have the north surrender to the south?
Have China take over the north?
Have some shared-power/joint-government fantasy?

I'm seriously baffled at just what he's thinking.

I expect to wake up some morning to find that Pyongyang now is just a glow-in-the-dark dust bowl, and that Seoul is under sustained attack.

[Mad_Mongol]

22. Sure Let's reunify the Koreas!!

I'm sure Beijing would love to reunify the Koreas....On Beijing's terms.

Those would be:

(1) Removal of US military presence on the Korean Peninsula
(2) Withdrawal of South Korea from its current military alliances
(3) Absolute free trade agreement with China
(4) Korea to certify & support Chinese claims in the East China Sea and the South China Sea
(5) A Korea - China non-aggression pact
(6) Korean support for Taiwan re-integration into China
(7) Agreement to occupy and subsume Japan


There you go, Don the Con "Making America Great Again"!! --NOT

[vkkv]

33. Very interesting and thoughtful take, but..yah, I don't think so. nt

[metalbot]

42. That might be a starting negotiation position

But one where we could likely meet in the middle.

1. Viable in the absence of a North Korea
2. Viable in the absence of a North Korea
3. We already have incredibly open trade with China. We might get this simply by agreeing to not squeeze them on trade.
4. Maybe. You'd likely have to negotiate on a reef by reef basis.
5. Totally viable
6. I think Korea would support this, and we could probably even go further without endangering Taiwan. For example, we could be willing to declare a moratorium on military drills with Taiwan.
7. That's the only one that wouldn't fly at all.

I'd also point out to that the likely alternative to China deciding that North Korea needs to go is a massive and crippling military exchange across the 42nd parallel, resulting in millions of deaths and potentially irradiation that would make Chernyobl and Fukushima look like children's science experiments in comparison.

[neeksgeek]

24. I'm sure Kim Jong-un won't have any objections. No sir.

In my opinion, this is just a GOP effort to make fake diplomacy "look good" before they find some excuse to start a war.

[geek tragedy]

25. So, his plan is either (1) China invades North Korea, or (2) North Korea invades South Korea. nt

[Javaman]

27. angermanagement-man hasn't changed his spots I see. nt

[barbtries]

28. very Bolton-esque of him

i'm kinda surprised he didn't just suggest making it an US territory by force of course.

[hibbing]

30. You would think the North would just eventually collapse

I don't recall a lot of people predicting the end of the Soviet Union and that seemed to happen relatively rapidly. I know it is a lot different situation, but perhaps one day the government will disintegrate. I can't imagine how horrible it is there for the average person.

Peace

[Yupster]

57. I read some guy's view

that flooding NoKo with movies and soap operas from SoKo was the best option. Seems it's happening now to a lesser extent.

[louis-t]

31. Hey John, we'll give you a rifle, you can be first.

We'll be right behind you. Believe me.

[Moral Compass]

34. John Bolton continues to confirm that he is an idiot

Wow. You gotta hand it to him. He is nothing if not consistent.

Bolton is the one that in the immediate post-Clinton days when Bush had come up with the "Axis of Evil" decided that rather than continue to maintain the Clinton sanctions/reward method where the North Koreans were actually allowing the AEC to install and monitor cameras inside the North Korean nuclear facilities that we would cut off all contact with them and impose even harsher sanctions.

So, the North Koreans turned off all the cameras and now 17 years later North Korea is a bonafide nuclear power that is now testing ICBMs. Most experts don't think it will be that long before they have the capability to hit mainland US.

While you can't definitively lay the blame at Bolton's feet (there was Cheney, Bush, and others that actively supported Bolton--indeed this is why he was made US Amabassador to the UN) this general approach was hands down the least effective of all the methods that had been tried in attempting to find some rapprochement with the North Koreans. While they were extremely difficult to negotiate with they did respond to a basic carrot/stick approach. Whether that, long term, would have kept them from developing nuclear weapons is unknowable. They always cheated on every agreement. This was why the Bush administration decided to punish them by shunning them. Kind of a national time out. They used that time out to work ever harder at developing a nuclear capability.

Once Kim Jong Un took over, not having the temperance that comes with age, he set the weapons/missile efforts into overdrive.

It can be safely concluded that at the minimum John Bolton helped the make a bad situation even worse.

This latest suggestion is simply insane. How exactly would China go about "elminating" North Korea? The methods available to China are available to us (invasion or a nuclear decapitation strike). I can only suppose that he is suggesting a nuclear decapitation strike which the US, South Korea, Japan, Russia might well take exception to...and would be far more complicated and problematic than he seems to think.

It is comforting to know that John Bolton continues to be the idiot that he has always been. Of course, we have someone in the Presidency that makes Bolton look measured, calm, and judicious so the comfort is small at best.

[not fooled]

47. Bolton and his 'stache

should be inhabiting a padded cell, not the corridors of power.

More malfeasance by the dump misadmin.

[underpants]

58. Great post

[Moral Compass]

60. Thanks

[FSogol]

36. LOL, We'll be greeted as liberators!

Can we send Bolton and Trump there first to discuss it?

[JHB]

37. So the Koreas would be reunited...under Chinese rule?

Kinda think the South Koreans would have objections to that. Not that Yosemite John is inclined to ask them.

[dhill926]

38. wish this asshole would choke...

on his mustache. The world would be a safer and better place...

[SpankMe]

41. I can't believe Bolton is that stupid and reckless.

The only way China would "allow" a unification is for the South to become more like the North - not the other way around. So, you'd be taking one of the Orient's most robust democracies and handing it over to communists and dictators.

China doesn't want a western-friendly power on their border. There's no way that a China-brokered, unified Korea would be anything like the South is today.

[metalbot]

43. Most robust democracy?

South Korea has barely been a democracy for 30 years. The first orderly transition of power due to an opposition electoral victory wasn't until 1997, though you could argue that the sixth republic goes back another ten years before that.

And that doesn't even address the level of corruption that has tainted even recent governments...

China already shares a much larger border with a much larger country that has at least as much claim as S Korea to being a "robust democracy" and which is already "western-friendly". If they can tolerate India, they can certainly tolerate a united Korea.

[GulfCoast66]

44. WTF

Break all the agreements we have with S. Korea and abandon its millions of generally free people for what? And when S. Korea say fuck no and scramble their very capable military to prevent any 'unification' they feel against their best interest.

Because no way China allows a western leaning democracy on their southern boarder.

Oh, there is that little thing called the Himalayas between China and India and they are about to fight over one of the few passive roads between their countries.

[Kablooie]

45. Now why didn't I think of that? Just tell China to make both Koreas into one.

Simple!
Problem solved.

[mahina]

48. The problem they're trying to solve: how to divert attention from Russiagate.

This crazy idea, the 'Let's go investigate Iran's nuclear facilities, the Boy Scout debacle, all of it.

[workinclasszero]

50. Let's get John Bolton and his family right up there on the front line first...38th parallel baby!

Then Trump can start the nuclear WW3!

[still_one]

51. This is why the bush administration was as bad as the current administration

[Girard442]

52. Hey John, wanna whack that hornet's nest with a stick? It'll be exciting.

You go on. I'll watch from inside the car with the windows rolled up.

Oh yeah, and the doors locked, too.

[Not Ruth]

53. The South Korea politicians also want reunification, youth could care less

Most South Koreans believe reunification with North Korea would benefit both sides but are nervous about the changes that could happen, a survey suggests. The Chosun Ilbo and the Korean Political Science Association, Ministry of Patriots and Veterans Affairs asked Hankook Research to gauge public attitudes toward reunification to mark the 70th anniversary of Korea's liberation from Japanese colonial rule.
A majority of the respondents, though in favor, voiced fears over the financial cost and ensuing social upheavals. Some 68 percent said reunification would benefit both Koreas, while only 15.7 percent feel the process would help only the North and 14.1 percent that it would hurt both sides.
Respondents in their 20s are the least enthusiastic, with 41 percent saying only the North would benefit from reunification or both sides would suffer. Some 56.2 percent said reunification would help both sides. Among respondents in their 60s or older, 70.5 percent said reunification would help both sides.

[Historic NY]

54. Conservative wet drean, like the whole peninsula wouldn't be at war zone.

[Doreen]

59. I have an odd question.

Which states are the ones with in reach right now if NK decided to send a missile of any type over to the U.S?

[workinclasszero]

62. Hawaii and the west coast/ Alaska I believe

[workinclasszero]

63. Here's more info on Hawaii

Hawaii rolling out preparedness plan for North Korean missile attack
By Fred Barbash July 21

The state of Hawaii is formulating a preparedness plan for a North Korean missile attack, much to the dismay of the state’s tourism boosters.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/07/21/hawaii-rolling-out-civil-defense-plan-for-north-korean-missile-attack/?utm_term=.4b717050c8f2

[longship]

61. Goo Goo Goo Joob!

[defacto7]

64. The all seeing, all knwing, omnipresent Bolton...

knows what the Koreas need. He knows China's history and regional politics more than than they do. I can hear China's leaders saying in unison, "gee, why didn't we think of that! Thanks Bolton". And of course SK is just all fuzzy with glee that they would be force unified with 2,000,000 NK soldiers armed with massive artillery within a few minutes of the SK capital. Like a family reunion. Where's the watermellon and hotdogs?
Bolton the omnipotent has spoken.

[dembotoz]

65. Kinda reminds me of when England partitioned the middle East..which has ensured peace to this day

What could possibly go wrong

[politicat]

66. First, we bell the cat.

Okay, new cabinet post. Designated tween. Her job is to listen to these lackwits, roll her eyes, and make memes. Any idea that gets a Lyanna Mormont or a Teenage Negasonic Warhead reaction is permanently shit-canned. Three ideas in a row with that rating and the cabinet member gets sent to the middle of Nevada for two months.

[Saboburns]

68. This planet will be lucky to suvive John Bolton

His only advice is and has ALWAYS been.......'More War'.

[Sunlei]

71. up to SK NOT China.