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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 02:22 PM Jan 2018

Former Sanders campaign chairman: Don't expect email list to be shared with DNC

Source: The Hill




BY MALLORY SHELBOURNE - 01/16/18 01:09 PM EST

The Democratic National Committee (DNC) is unlikely to get the email list from Sen. Bernie Sanders's (I-Vt.) 2016 presidential campaign, according to Sanders's former campaign chairman.

“I don’t think you should expect that to happen. If people think the Sanders list is just an ATM, they’re sadly mistaken,” Jeff Weaver told Politico.

“It’s a list of millions of people who are motivated by a certain policy agenda. If they think it can be easily transferred, I think it’s a fantasy.” The news outlet reported that DNC chairman Tom Perez has requested the list and other material as he seeks to rebuild the committee after Hillary Clinton’s 2016 loss to President Trump.

Sanders had supported Perez’s opponent, Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.), in his bid for the chairman position. Ellison, after losing to Perez, is now deputy chair of the DNC.



Read more: http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/369158-former-sanders-campaign-chairman-dont-expect-email-list-to-be-shared-with

175 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Former Sanders campaign chairman: Don't expect email list to be shared with DNC (Original Post) DonViejo Jan 2018 OP
Stop dividing the party Bernie! mchill Jan 2018 #1
Yep, and he shouldn't expect to be on Dem ballots either if there's no sharing. brush Jan 2018 #25
and NO DNC$ samnsara Jan 2018 #52
What if he runs as an Independent? He would receive many votes that would Sophia4 Jan 2018 #78
Who's scolding anyone but Sanders for not sharing his emails if... brush Jan 2018 #80
The entire argument is just silly. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #83
Seems like you have no idea how this started. brush Jan 2018 #84
Hopefully the Democratic Party will have a new list by that time. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #85
Then what's the problem with Sanders' sharing it? brush Jan 2018 #86
It's really up to Sanders. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #89
The point is that if the lists are combined, there won't be Sanders or Hillary... brush Jan 2018 #91
Because the D Party has someone on KPN Jan 2018 #144
Of course it's an issue or Sanders' camp wouldn't have raised it. brush Jan 2018 #146
Aside from having a skewed view of the facts, KPN Jan 2018 #147
The Democrats are the party that always pulls the economy out of the repug depressions... brush Jan 2018 #148
It's not about recessions. Haven't you heard? KPN Jan 2018 #157
You must know most of the info in you first graph was because of repug policies, right? brush Jan 2018 #158
The Repugs certainly had a lot to do KPN Jan 2018 #161
Some good points in your first graph. As far as Sanders, he could've been a strong force in the... brush Jan 2018 #163
Probably right. But he may not have been KPN Jan 2018 #166
The Point Is Me. Jan 2018 #151
Yeah, I remember. They broke thru the DNC server firewall. brush Jan 2018 #159
This message was self-deleted by its author Wwcd Jan 2018 #107
The Democratic Party has had two years to attract those voters. appal_jack Jan 2018 #98
So you are saying Sanders voters are not Democrats? Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #102
The Dem party is not the one saying they won't share their email list. brush Jan 2018 #130
Win back...are you implying Bernie voters didn't vote for Hillary? I don't think that is true...and Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #101
Bernie most certainly did vote for Hillary, but a lot of his supporters did not -- Sophia4 Jan 2018 #104
Really I was told by earnest Sanders supporter that this was not the case. However, Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #133
Many Hillary supporters do not realize that the most important difference between Sophia4 Jan 2018 #141
I don't agree with you at all. And those Berniecrats who didn't vote for Hillary can fuck themselve Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #152
And Hillary lost in spite of a 3 million vote margin because not enough Democrats Sophia4 Jan 2018 #155
Yet in one CA district Bernie voters are challenging an incumbent California Congressman mchill Jan 2018 #139
And the Berniecrats constantly talk about how the traditional Democrats shut them Sophia4 Jan 2018 #140
That attitude is destroying our democracy. It's just handingvthe country to totalitarians. yardwork Jan 2018 #134
bernie should get ZERO support from the DNC unless he pays for it as he is not a democrat nt msongs Jan 2018 #2
how many dnc resources were used in his Democratic campaign? niyad Jan 2018 #3
The Entire Democratic Primary? TomCADem Jan 2018 #20
The primary is not "resources". KPN Jan 2018 #145
No resources used for party primaries? Really? TomCADem Jan 2018 #160
Does DNC spend on primary candidates directly? Bradical79 Jan 2018 #164
And after the dems let you ride on their coat tails in 2016 shame on you Fullduplexxx Jan 2018 #4
Post removed Post removed Jan 2018 #5
+1,000,000 livetohike Jan 2018 #10
There will be new, younger candidates who we won't have the feeling... brush Jan 2018 #27
Here we go again. kstewart33 Jan 2018 #6
DNC magical free vehicle you can hop on every 4 years delisen Jan 2018 #7
who expects anything different coming from sanders?? I surely don't, if its not about him, he beachbum bob Jan 2018 #8
This message was self-deleted by its author Wwcd Jan 2018 #15
Is anybody really surprised? comradebillyboy Jan 2018 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author Wwcd Jan 2018 #11
This message was self-deleted by its author GaryCnf Jan 2018 #93
Fuck this shit. Bernie keeps living down to my expectations. (nt) Paladin Jan 2018 #12
Sanders working hard to elect Trump. Again. beastie boy Jan 2018 #13
Yep! Sen Sanders is having his ego stroked and he once again will TheDebbieDee Jan 2018 #127
They made a mistake when they didn't require that when they allowed him to run pnwmom Jan 2018 #14
This message was self-deleted by its author Wwcd Jan 2018 #18
He certainly had no qualms taking from the DNC to boost his campaign. procon Jan 2018 #16
Weaver has a point, but should have stated it much better and he should have offered to send an emai karynnj Jan 2018 #17
Post removed Post removed Jan 2018 #21
Link please - that sounds pretty much like a conspiracy theory karynnj Jan 2018 #28
This message was self-deleted by its author Wwcd Jan 2018 #42
In other words, you have no legitimate source -- and all of your posts on this thread are refighting karynnj Jan 2018 #46
This message was self-deleted by its author Wwcd Jan 2018 #57
The chairman of Michigans Democratic Party, Brandon Dillon, in a comment to Politico downplayed Cha Jan 2018 #70
This message was self-deleted by its author Wwcd Jan 2018 #71
Thanks. Bernie had his own list, as Hillary had hers. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #81
Yikes. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #95
In California a lot of them are listed on the voter rolls. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #99
Wow. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #109
I've done it for years. We campaign for candidate by going from door to door. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #125
We only have Democratic lists...we do not call on others. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #137
In my neighborhood, I go door to door because we are mostly blue. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #143
We have list that can even tell if the person early voted. We go out and ask them if hey need a ride Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #150
During the Obama campaign, our call lists included Independents. progressoid Jan 2018 #165
Independent voters are not registered with any party. They're unaffiliated lapucelle Jan 2018 #128
Thanks. You are so right. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #129
Interesting. I suppose you remember that Bernie was allowed to run as a Dem, and that he... Hekate Jan 2018 #135
+ 1 Million Me. Jan 2018 #44
This message was self-deleted by its author Wwcd Jan 2018 #48
Here's Something Else I Don't UNderstand Me. Jan 2018 #50
We don't. Didn't need him then & we will never need anything from him. Wwcd Jan 2018 #58
YEP Me. Jan 2018 #59
Thank you, ME Wwcd Jan 2018 #63
Why are we not allowed to criticize Bernie here? Hell, were I allowed to I would have Eliot Rosewater Jan 2018 #77
THese Are Questions For The Universe At Large Me. Jan 2018 #92
A well reasoned, well written response. The Polack MSgt Jan 2018 #23
Thanks for the comment and the Monty Python link! karynnj Jan 2018 #35
Weren't Bernie and his supporters calling for Unity? mcar Jan 2018 #26
It depends on the best way to get out a Democratic message karynnj Jan 2018 #29
That could be mcar Jan 2018 #31
So, essentially the DNC would have someone managing the Sanders email list and sending out messages karynnj Jan 2018 #36
So it's OK for Hillary's list but not Bernie's? mcar Jan 2018 #38
I said absolutely nothing about Hillary or her email - so no double standard karynnj Jan 2018 #40
This message was self-deleted by its author Wwcd Jan 2018 #45
You have still not given a single source that backs your contention nt karynnj Jan 2018 #47
This message was self-deleted by its author Wwcd Jan 2018 #49
Just combine the Dem list with the Sanders list, one list. Not complicated. brush Jan 2018 #131
Most of the people on Bernie's list are probably already on the Democratic Party's Sophia4 Jan 2018 #82
No need to be negative in order to make the basic point that Sanders could send an email to his list Justice Jan 2018 #64
You are reading the negativity into what I wrote karynnj Jan 2018 #162
Karynnj, that is the best statement ever. Thank you. nt Hekate Jan 2018 #136
He talks out both sides of his mouth.... Historic NY Jan 2018 #19
+ a million. Wwcd Jan 2018 #22
So much for unity, eh Bernie? mcar Jan 2018 #24
Who is surprised by this? Gothmog Jan 2018 #30
Shocked.. Cha Jan 2018 #67
So in other words.. disillusioned73 Jan 2018 #32
amen. shanny Jan 2018 #34
Post removed Post removed Jan 2018 #33
You are accusing DUers are being bots and Russians because they're mad Sanders pnwmom Jan 2018 #37
LOL, does the Jack stand for JPR? FSogol Jan 2018 #39
Who made Weaver (or Bernie) the decider about whether people on list would support a Democrat? Justice Jan 2018 #41
This message was self-deleted by its author Wwcd Jan 2018 #55
Why is Sanders still protected at DU? These aren't the actions of an ally. They're much more.... Tarheel_Dem Jan 2018 #43
That's a damn good question. Considering his purpose in the campaign was for "Money & Media". Wwcd Jan 2018 #62
Good question! R B Garr Jan 2018 #69
just great. hello trump 2020! samnsara Jan 2018 #51
It's 2018, not 2016... pecosbob Jan 2018 #53
Yes... 2018 mid-term just around the corner. Gotta keep focused on flipping InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2018 #56
We can, question is will Bernie and Weaver. Justice Jan 2018 #60
When Bernie accepted the use of the DNC database, he agreed to share his own database pnwmom Jan 2018 #72
Then Sanders should not run for the nomination of the party he's disrespecting. lark Jan 2018 #54
Good Sherman A1 Jan 2018 #61
Correct left-of-center2012 Jan 2018 #65
Bernie and all candidates who used the DNC database agreed to share their own databases pnwmom Jan 2018 #75
Maybe Bernie thinks ... left-of-center2012 Jan 2018 #87
Then he must have forgotten about how his team went tip-toeing pnwmom Jan 2018 #88
"he fired the ringleader" left-of-center2012 Jan 2018 #106
This message was self-deleted by its author Wwcd Jan 2018 #108
OMG ! ? left-of-center2012 Jan 2018 #110
This message was self-deleted by its author Wwcd Jan 2018 #113
"Maybe he can give it to his friend Nina" left-of-center2012 Jan 2018 #115
Sorry won't playback. Wwcd Jan 2018 #117
If he were honorable he would have lived up to his agreement with the DNC pnwmom Jan 2018 #118
And Donna backed off of that lie. The false putin/Assange rigged primary meme is dead emulatorloo Jan 2018 #96
This message was self-deleted by its author Wwcd Jan 2018 #111
Was there an agreement to share, specifically, DONOR information? Jim Lane Jan 2018 #103
No, the Bernie people EXPLORED Hillary's site, opening the doors, walking in, pnwmom Jan 2018 #119
You may be conflating three different things - the voter records, the email list and the donor lists karynnj Jan 2018 #167
No, it was clear from the written contract. The voter contact information that BERNIE collected pnwmom Jan 2018 #168
Weaver's comment was about the EMAIL list -- not "voter information" karynnj Jan 2018 #171
No, the DNC only had the original info in the database. Information that Bernie pnwmom Jan 2018 #172
The DNC information was the VOTER database karynnj Jan 2018 #173
The emails were part of Bernie's proprietary information and he agreed to share it all pnwmom Jan 2018 #174
Reading comprehension helps -- look at your top highlighted sentence - karynnj Jan 2018 #175
Precisely Sherman A1 Jan 2018 #132
So you would reneg on a commitment that you made when you accepted the use of the DNC database. pnwmom Jan 2018 #74
"That works to improve the Database for EVERYONE" left-of-center2012 Jan 2018 #122
Donna Brazile's book-selling hype didn't live up to the reality. Hillary had signed TWO contracts pnwmom Jan 2018 #123
OK left-of-center2012 Jan 2018 #124
Based on this thread, when the shit gets stirred... Beartracks Jan 2018 #66
This. ms liberty Jan 2018 #94
Bernie would be better served with a spokesperson other that Hothead Weaver. emulatorloo Jan 2018 #97
That GulfCoast66 Jan 2018 #120
Yep emulatorloo Jan 2018 #154
The chairman of Michigans Democratic Party, Brandon Dillon, in a comment to Politico downplayed. Cha Jan 2018 #68
The river flows both ways, Jeff Blue_Tires Jan 2018 #73
WHAT the FUCK! Eliot Rosewater Jan 2018 #76
Thanks for the link, ER Cha Jan 2018 #112
This message was self-deleted by its author Wwcd Jan 2018 #114
Post removed Post removed Jan 2018 #79
The hate machine rolls on Devil Child Jan 2018 #90
Weavers a frigging gaffe machine. There would be fewer alledged Hit Pieces if Weaver would stick emulatorloo Jan 2018 #100
Sanders lost the primary. His voters wasupaloopa Jan 2018 #105
This message was self-deleted by its author Wwcd Jan 2018 #116
Why would he? OnyxSharpie Jan 2018 #121
Then Bernie should not be allowed to run Dawson Leery Jan 2018 #126
That doesn't sound very socialist. ucrdem Jan 2018 #138
I was a big Bernie supporter, but this just isn't right. Vinca Jan 2018 #142
Only matters in states where the primary candidates could keep their own lists afer the primary. haele Jan 2018 #149
Sore loser. nt LexVegas Jan 2018 #153
One would expect an Outreach Chair lapucelle Jan 2018 #156
Thank you, Sen. Sanders! RandiFan1290 Jan 2018 #169
Good harun Jan 2018 #170
 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
78. What if he runs as an Independent? He would receive many votes that would
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 07:17 PM
Jan 2018

go to Democrats if the Democratic Party were united.

It's up to winners to win back those they beat in the contest. Same for politics.

It's up to Democrats to win back Bernie supporters. Lots of work to do in that area.

Especially in certain states.

Scolding people who don't vote Democratic will not help win elections.

brush

(53,470 posts)
80. Who's scolding anyone but Sanders for not sharing his emails if...
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 07:23 PM
Jan 2018

he wants to run as a Dem?

But I have the feeling by the time 2019 rolls around there will be new, younger candidates who don't give us the feeling that we've been there and done that divisive thing already.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
83. The entire argument is just silly.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 07:27 PM
Jan 2018

If someone wants to get on the Democratic list, they can. Bernie is not collecting names at this time or soliciting a lot of donations as far as I know.

This is an argument over nothing.

brush

(53,470 posts)
84. Seems like you have no idea how this started.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 07:30 PM
Jan 2018

Sanders' ex-campaign manager said don't expect Sanders' email list to be shared with the DNC in the 2020 campaign.

Call that silly if you want.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
85. Hopefully the Democratic Party will have a new list by that time.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 07:32 PM
Jan 2018

Most people on Bernie's list are probably on the Democratic Party list already. They are probably registered as Democrats if they voted in Democratic primaries. I doubt that there are many people on Bernie's list who aren't on the Democratic Party list already.

brush

(53,470 posts)
86. Then what's the problem with Sanders' sharing it?
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 07:37 PM
Jan 2018

This silly pronouncement by his camp is starting the divisiveness all over again.

But it probably won't matter, by 2019 there will be new candidates like Kennedy, Booker, Harris, Brown, Castro, et all who will be much closer in age to young Dem voters.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
89. It's really up to Sanders.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 07:43 PM
Jan 2018

He is probably trying to do what he thinks the people on the list want.

And most people on the list probably don't want the Democratic Party to view them as Sanders supporters. Maybe that explains the hesitation. People should be free to vote for and support the candidate of their choice.

The Democratic Party does not need the names of Sanders supporters. They probably already have those who are interested in supporting the Democratic Party.

brush

(53,470 posts)
91. The point is that if the lists are combined, there won't be Sanders or Hillary...
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 07:49 PM
Jan 2018

supporters but Democratic party supporters — that is if Sanders expects to be on Democratic Party primary ballots.

No one wants a repeat of the divisiveness of the last campaign.

A certain someone has to decide if he's a Democrat — again.

KPN

(15,587 posts)
144. Because the D Party has someone on
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 03:04 PM
Jan 2018

their email address list (whether from Bernie or not) does not make that person a Democratic Party supporter.

This is a lot about nothing, a meaningless issue. Policies are meaningful, actions and results are meaningful, not email address lists. People are not going to suddenly become Party "supporters" we all know this principally means donors) simply because Bernie handed over their email address to the Party.

brush

(53,470 posts)
146. Of course it's an issue or Sanders' camp wouldn't have raised it.
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 03:25 PM
Jan 2018

They're the ones who want to be on Democratic primary ballots, use party infrastructure and party email lists but don't want to share their own.

Ain't gonna happen this time around.

Plus, there will be several new, younger and attractive, actual, real Democratic candidates for 2020 who will make Sanders' old-hat divisiveness look like a "been there, done that" 2016 leftover.

KPN

(15,587 posts)
147. Aside from having a skewed view of the facts,
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 04:20 PM
Jan 2018

it is only an issue because some people choose to make it a mountain out of a mole hill. It's more about Bernie and about people having an issue with the Democratic Party's performance on the economic front over the past 40 years than it is about email lists.

I do agree that Bernie's time has passed and new faces will be stepping into the forefront in 2019-20. But I also expect Bernie will be on message and will play a role (a message I support) as long as he is able bodied.

brush

(53,470 posts)
148. The Democrats are the party that always pulls the economy out of the repug depressions...
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 04:31 PM
Jan 2018

and recessions. Surely you've noticed that historic fact.

Many of Sanders' ideas are valid and could have been better deployed if he were a member of the Democratic Party.

In fact, he would've done much better in the 2016 southern primaries and may have even been the nominee in 2016 had been a member of the party who had forged alliances with southern AAs, a significant part of our base.

KPN

(15,587 posts)
157. It's not about recessions. Haven't you heard?
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 09:13 PM
Jan 2018

Wage rates haven't kept even with inflation over the past four decades; labor unions have been basically neutered over that same time frame; manufacturing jobs have declined precipitously here while rocketing steeply in what were "underdeveloped" nations as a result of American manufacturers relocating to those nations to take advantage of vastly lower labor costs (often more than 90% less). At the same time, the cost for higher education has skyrocketed out of reach for most without incurring massive debt; housing costs have appreciated by as much as 3-400% in many parts of the country; health care costs and insurance for those who can afford it have far outpaced wage growth AND inflation.

As for your last statement, you made my basic point -- the anti-Bernie sentiment is about a label, not policy or positions on issues (though I'm skeptical about that when I see the views of some "democrats&quot which means it's basically about, as a poster in another thread a week or so ago put it, butt-hurt. Never mind that Bernie has voted with Democrats more than most other Democrats in Congress throughout his career. Geesh!

brush

(53,470 posts)
158. You must know most of the info in you first graph was because of repug policies, right?
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 11:03 PM
Jan 2018

Reagan decimated the unions in the 80s by firing PATCO strikers; repug-run corporations have been off-shoring jobs for decades; repugs fought tooth and nail and quashed Hillary's universal healthcare proposals during the 90s; repugs have always and continue to fight against minimum wage growth, even overtime has just about been eliminated with repug-approved trickery, (they've also been fighting for decades to roll back FDR's and LBJ's social programs). And as I mentioned before, repug policies that favor the rich always caused recessions, economic hardship, job losses, home losses etc.

I'm sure that's not news to you. Put the blame where it belongs.

And as for Sanders, his reluctance to join the party worked against him, because even though he voted with the Democrats he never had a chance with super delegates in 2016 — one reason being he entered the race late, and second being because most went with Hillary and her long history as a Democrat who worked, forged allinance with and raised funds for other Democrats.

Bernie didn't have any of that going for him because caucusing with is not the same as being a long-time party member whose policies could have had strong impact. Him keeping the party at shoulder length for years hurt him.

KPN

(15,587 posts)
161. The Repugs certainly had a lot to do
Thu Jan 18, 2018, 09:11 AM
Jan 2018

with all of that. No one can deny that. At the same time, blaming the Repugs for everything is disingenuous. Certainly, if nothing else it casts us Democrats as ineffective. But that's not the case. We've been extremely effective on social issues when you compare where we are today to the 1960s-70s. Likewise on environmental issues. The same cannot be said for labor, tax, trade, welfare and other issues. Even when we've had control, we've cut deals with Repugs that favored corporations and Wall Street over common people and the poor. Not too long ago we were buying into "chained CPI" for crying out loud -- a slow road to poverty! There are many other similar instances where Dems supported economic policies that have hurt the middle class/poor and in so doing disappointed many Party and now former party members and non-voters. Blaming everything on Repugs is irresponsible and a recipe for further party ineffectiveness. We have a tremendous opportunity with the dominant public anti-Trump sentiment to regain control of the legislature and executive branches at the fed level and in many States. We better take advantage of that opportunity in the next two election years and when we actually have control again. There are literally millions who are skeptical about us doing that based on past experience. Millions.

Regarding Bernie, you continue to make my case that it's more about the label and butt-hurt than anything else; as well as his campaign's case about the party establishment. Where's the commitment to policy. It certainly isn't in the record or results on the economic front.



brush

(53,470 posts)
163. Some good points in your first graph. As far as Sanders, he could've been a strong force in the...
Thu Jan 18, 2018, 02:10 PM
Jan 2018

party with many allies who would've backed his 2016 bid but he chose his own path for years.

As we look back on it, there was little chance that a last minute interloper was going to get the party nomination over a long-time party member.

That's one reason why people join a party.

Frankly, it was Sanders' lost, and the Party's.

KPN

(15,587 posts)
166. Probably right. But he may not have been
Thu Jan 18, 2018, 03:03 PM
Jan 2018

elected in Vermont as a Congressman early on running as a Dem. I don't have any real insight to that though.

He ran as a Dem in part because he did not believe he could win the GE as an Independent and, I assume, he did not want to give the WH to the Rs just by doing so. In retrospect, I think he ran initially to start a movement back to the left within the D Party. He was certainly successful in that regard. And, frankly, I really do not believe for one second that his candidacy was THE reason we didn't win in 2016. There were many other factors of far greater significance in my view. That's why I defend Bernie when he gets beat up here by those who hold that grudge. We can do better.

Me.

(35,454 posts)
151. The Point Is
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 07:25 PM
Jan 2018

He and his stole it without an apology or sorry, IIRC they tried to lay the blame on the DNC

Response to Sophia4 (Reply #89)

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
98. The Democratic Party has had two years to attract those voters.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 08:26 PM
Jan 2018

It's not like Sanders voters are in the witness protection program, right?

To the extent that the Democratic Party has spoken to the issues that Bernie voters care about, I am sure that they have signed-up for e-mail lists, made donations, and otherwise made themselves known.

Or are you saying that the Democratic Party has been hostile to these issues, yet still feels entitled to use these voters as an ATM? That would be a problem, wouldn't it?

-app

brush

(53,470 posts)
130. The Dem party is not the one saying they won't share their email list.
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 01:32 AM
Jan 2018

That pronouncement came from the Sanders camp.

That is no way to ingratiate one's candidate into the party — again.

The party wants to consolidate an email list for all Democrats to share.

The Sanders' campaign seems again to be signaling they don't want to do that.

If they don't that's fine, but I highly doubt that stance will get them on Dem primary ballots.

There will be many new, younger, attractive candidates running who won't be carrying that "been there, done that" divisiveness baggage.

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
101. Win back...are you implying Bernie voters didn't vote for Hillary? I don't think that is true...and
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 08:29 PM
Jan 2018

I am not trying to win anyone back...they want the GOP then let them go on their merry way.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
104. Bernie most certainly did vote for Hillary, but a lot of his supporters did not --
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 08:36 PM
Jan 2018

so those have to be won back.

A lot of them are probably pretty sick and tired of Trump. The Democratic Party has only to show the traditional values of the Democratic Party -- and they will return.

That is how we can win the Senate and House this year -- winning back a lot of disaffected voters in certain states like Pennsylvania, Michigan, Ohio, etc.

I think we need a strong election-protection effort in those states. I worked election protection in Ohio in 2008. It was very important. I am inclined to think that it made a lot of difference. I also went to Washington state for election protection work at one point, and it made a huge difference there.

We need to have a strong Democratic victory this very year.

Here in California, we need to go into the rural Republican districts and talk to Republican voters about how the Republican tax bill will affect them and why they should switch parties and vote Democratic -- or not vote at all. I'm very willing to help out.

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
133. Really I was told by earnest Sanders supporter that this was not the case. However,
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 09:54 AM
Jan 2018

I believe that some who voted for Sanders in the primary never had any intention of voting for him in a general...they were mostly in open primary states and just causing trouble. These do not represent sincere Sanders voters.

As for the rust belt, Trump promised them jobs...nothing to do with Sen. Sanders. And pres. Clinton signed NAFTA ...still an issue here. The MidWest is hurting, they took a chance on something different and there are racial issues too. We just took a Wisconsin senate (legislature) seat that had been held by the GOP for 17 years! We won by 10 %...a 27% improvement over 16 so I think many in the rustbelt (I live in Ohio) now realize Trump is a grifter and a liar. Healthcare is a big issue too. The tax cut is hated here. Many in Cleveland and other cities pay high taxes and the state taxes deduction limitation has enraged folks who see a giveaway to the rich and a generally screwing of working people. Also, Paul Ryan's comments about Social Security and Medicare are not playing well here. Even with the gerrymander, we have a chance to takes GOP seats.

Those Sanders supporter who were sincere in their beliefs mostly came back in my opinion. And a higher number of Sanders supporters voted for Sec. Clinton in 16 than Clinton supporters for Obama in 08. As for those few who did not...a giant fuck you goes out. If you didn't vote for Sec Clinton when the only other realistic choice was Trump than you are not and never were progressive. Are you listening JPR...fuck you all.


"While much was made of the so-called Bernie-or-bust phenomenon, the number of Sanders supporters who crossed party lines to vote for Trump in 2016 may not be that unusual. A 2010 study in Public Opinion Quarterly found that in the 2008 election 25 percent of those who voted for Clinton in the Democratic primary ended up voting for Republican John McCain, rather than Barack Obama, in the general election."

http://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-trump-2016-election-654320

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
141. Many Hillary supporters do not realize that the most important difference between
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 02:27 PM
Jan 2018

Bernie's and Hillary's campaigns was Bernie's emphasis on economic disparity including the difficulty in getting jobs, the burden of repaying student loans and general unfairness in the economy. Hillary somehow did not emphasize the economic issues as much as Bernie.

So it is a mistake to say that people voted for Trump because of his stance on jobs and that Hillary and Bernie said the same things on that issue.

Jobs and the fact that the Republicans considered Hillary to have somehow done something wrong with her e-mails, etc. were the reasons that some who would more likely vote Democratic in the Midwest voted for Trump. Trump of course completely misrepresented, lied about what he would do about jobs although he did drop out of the TPP in order supposedly to protect jobs.

If Democrats want to unite the party, Democrats will have to emphasize economic, jobs and wages issues. Democrats will have to wrestle with the tax bill issue, keeping what is good for working people and getting rid of what is only good for the few at the top of the economic heap.

Democrats won by 3 million votes in 2016 but it was not a large enough margin to win the electoral college because those 3 million votes were in blue states that are cheated out of a voice in the electoral college.

Democrats need to embrace the Berniecrats if Democrats are to win in 2018 and 2020. It may be frustrating. Remember a lot of Berniecrats are young and have no experience in politics. But if we really want to win, we have to include in our Democratic Party people who voted for Bernie. It's up to the winners and the majority to reach out to people who may have disagreed and campaigned for Bernie and even voted for Trump.

Forgive and forget if you want to be elected in 2018 and 2020. And talk about economic issues. They are important. And the tax bill invites a vehement discussion.

Things look good for the Democratic Party this year. But we have to include people who voted for Bernie and Trump or we will lose. Time for bitterness is over. It has been more than a year. We as a nation and as working Democrats lose too much if we hold on to the bitterness.

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
152. I don't agree with you at all. And those Berniecrats who didn't vote for Hillary can fuck themselve
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 07:27 PM
Jan 2018

Go down to JPR and see who these asshats are ...promising not to vote for Democrats unless...blah blah...fuck them. I hope everyone of them pays through the nose for their stinking student loans...they basically sent Americans to their deaths. I have no intention of catering to Berniecrats who did not vote for Hillary... I don't even think they are progressive and any of their 'advice' would cause us to lose. Can I just say...I think it is unfair to link Bernie to these asshats...they are not progressive and not Democrats...90% of Bernie voters voted for Hillary...a bigger number than Clinton supporters who voted for Pres. Obama.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
155. And Hillary lost in spite of a 3 million vote margin because not enough Democrats
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 08:44 PM
Jan 2018

who are the majority party came out to vote for her in Midwestern and certain other states.

Is unity in the Democratic Party unimportant?

How can the Democratic Party become more united and win in 2018 and 2020. The lack of unity in 2016 resulted in a loss, and that 10% of Bernie supporters who did not vote Democratic or maybe even stayed home plus those who switched from voting for Democrats to vote for Trump meant that Trump won.

What is the realistic solution to uniting the Democratic Party to the extent that we can win in 2018 and 2020?

If you have visited JPR, you know the problem I am talking about. What is your suggestion?

I don't mean to put you down or argue, but what is your proposal? I'm sincerely interested. How do we reunite the Democratic Party?

mchill

(1,015 posts)
139. Yet in one CA district Bernie voters are challenging an incumbent California Congressman
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 11:38 AM
Jan 2018

Ami Bera

This is not a particularly Democratic area, either.

"The guy they are running against him is a total newbie to politics, nice enough but very unprepared. Works as an atty for the state."

This is my friend's district and casual comment. She is very much involved with the California Democratic Party. She constantly talks about the Berniecrats disrupting things.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
140. And the Berniecrats constantly talk about how the traditional Democrats shut them
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 02:14 PM
Jan 2018

out. We cannot win elections if "newbies" those intruders from the Progressive wing are snubbed and shut out by the "oldies" the traditionalists from the Hillary win. Everyone has to find common ground.

New candidates introduce new ideas. As Democrats we should welcome that. Let's stretch out our arms and allow the new ideas and encourage and listen to the rebels, decide which ideas can be incorporated and discuss the ones that can't.

Better a more progressive (or less progressive) candidate run against the sitting officeholder than that people stay home from elections. We all need to work together in the end.

The purpose of a primary is to enrich the "gene pool" of the party with new ideas and faces.

I remember way back when Barbara Boxer was a "newbie" in California politics. Everyone starts somewhere. Let's don't shut people out of the Democratic Party. When a party starts closing off and shutting new people and new ideas out, it's on ITS way out.

I love Patrick Leahy, and Dianne Feinstein and Joe Biden and all the rest of our elderly senators and representatives. But there comes a time when younger people have to take responsibility for the country and party.

Ami Bera and the Los Angeles Democratic Party will be just fine even if he is challenged from the left.

yardwork

(61,417 posts)
134. That attitude is destroying our democracy. It's just handingvthe country to totalitarians.
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 10:16 AM
Jan 2018

It's up to citizens to protect our democracy by voting wisely. Anything less is complicit with the totalitarians.

TomCADem

(17,378 posts)
160. No resources used for party primaries? Really?
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 11:06 PM
Jan 2018

Well, if Trump can deny climate change, why not deny that substantial resources are used by a party to conduct a caucus or primary to select a party's nominee.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
164. Does DNC spend on primary candidates directly?
Thu Jan 18, 2018, 02:58 PM
Jan 2018

He gets some funding and help for the Senate campaigns he runs, and he gave money to the DNC after he lost the primaries.

Response to DonViejo (Original post)

brush

(53,470 posts)
27. There will be new, younger candidates who we won't have the feeling...
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 03:27 PM
Jan 2018

about them that we've been there and done that.

delisen

(6,039 posts)
7. DNC magical free vehicle you can hop on every 4 years
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 02:41 PM
Jan 2018

to take you on a several month trip where you want to go.

The vehicle is free, maintenance is free-can't beat that. You even get to criticize its performance and appearance.

This illustrates the difference between people who see a political party as a home and those who see it as a vehicle.

 

beachbum bob

(10,437 posts)
8. who expects anything different coming from sanders?? I surely don't, if its not about him, he
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 02:42 PM
Jan 2018

aint playin

Response to beachbum bob (Reply #8)

Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Response to Wwcd (Reply #11)

 

TheDebbieDee

(11,119 posts)
127. Yep! Sen Sanders is having his ego stroked and he once again will
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 11:51 PM
Jan 2018

play the unwitting wedge in the Dem party...

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
14. They made a mistake when they didn't require that when they allowed him to run
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 02:52 PM
Jan 2018

as a Democrat with party support. They shouldn't make that mistake again.

Response to pnwmom (Reply #14)

procon

(15,805 posts)
16. He certainly had no qualms taking from the DNC to boost his campaign.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 03:05 PM
Jan 2018

This boils down to money. That list is like his own personal goldmine that he uses to dig up donations from his fans to benefit only himself. If he gave it up to the DNC they would also mine it for money, but that money would go toward helping elect Dems all over the country.

Cut the man loose. At this point, Sanders is more a hindrance than a help,so let him go do is own thing all by himself.

karynnj

(59,475 posts)
17. Weaver has a point, but should have stated it much better and he should have offered to send an emai
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 03:07 PM
Jan 2018

to everyone on the list with a link to sign onto the DNC list.

The point is that a significant percent of the Sanders list would NOT want to get email from the DNC and certainly would not contribute to it -- preferring more left targeted organizations. Not to mention, many do not even consider themselves Democrats. What they mostly agree on are the issues that Sanders and Clinton argued for in one of the most progressive primaries we ever had. In spite of the Democratic party and the nominee accepting most of these positions, there are many that do not see the DNC, the DSC, or the DCCC as largely progressive. It is very possible that most of the people on that list might not even open a DNC email or worse, resent that the DNC had their email.

However, the DNC can coordinate with Sanders when they want a consistent message going out. Assuming Sanders has people who can still send out emails, he could send either the same message or - if there is reason to - a complimentary email that is more "Sanders". You have a group of people who - at least 2 years ago - respected Sanders. His name on that message might be more powerful to that group of people than the same message sent labeled DNC.

My reason for believing this is that I KNOW I was far more likely to read and contribute to candidates after getting emails from johnkerry.com than any of the standard Democratic solicitations. Kerry wrote very persuasive arguments for supporting various Democrats and, as far as I was concerned, he was a trusted source. I was in a relatively small portion of the Democratic population for whom Kerry became the nominee I most believed in in my life. I know there is a group - I suspect it is much larger for whom Sanders was that inspiring candidate. The highest concentration of those people to be found are likely to be on his list. Something from Sanders will be more powerful. (The Kerry comparison probably understates this because Kerry was far more a loyal, liberal Democrat and Sanders is an independent who caucuses with the Democrats. I would imagine that their supporters might have a similar difference.)

Another memory about the Kerry list was that in 2007 there were many angry people here on DU who were furious that "Kerry gave his list to Obama". In fact, he did not do that for the very reason cited by the angry Clinton and Edwards people - that they did not give him their email so he could give it to anyone or anything else. What he did do - when he endorsed Obama is to send an email with his endorsement speech and a link to Obama's website where people could sign up. Beyond that, the email list was used only by him. He closed johnkerry.com completely when he became Secretary of State.

I realize that the DNC is different than one of the competing primary campaigns, but Sanders doing that for the DNC would allow him to keep faith with people who would be angry if he gave anyone the email list while allowing the DNC to "get" some new email addresses. I would note that the list of email addresses from people who WANTED to be on the DNC list would be far more valuable than the full list.

Response to karynnj (Reply #17)

karynnj

(59,475 posts)
28. Link please - that sounds pretty much like a conspiracy theory
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 03:28 PM
Jan 2018

This goes far beyond the accusations that his data person "looked" at some of the Clinton stuff in the DNC's database.

Not to mention, I think Sanders fundraising was almost entirely internet based -- and most was from people going to his web site. By and large, even if Sanders got the Clinton email or phone list, it would not be a list that would be very good for telemarketing - or even emailing to. Most people on that list would be solidly for Clinton.

Not to mention, this does not change anything I said on what might be the most successful way for the Democrats to "use" Sanders email list.

Response to karynnj (Reply #28)

karynnj

(59,475 posts)
46. In other words, you have no legitimate source -- and all of your posts on this thread are refighting
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 04:43 PM
Jan 2018

the primary. As I said conspiracy theory -- and weird ones at that.

Response to karynnj (Reply #46)

Cha

(295,903 posts)
70. The chairman of Michigans Democratic Party, Brandon Dillon, in a comment to Politico downplayed
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 06:23 PM
Jan 2018
the importance of obtaining Sanders’s email list.

“The fundamentals are what’s going to be important, not whether we have Bernie’s email list or not,” Dillon told the news outlet."


From the link..

I agree.

Wwcd

Response to Cha (Reply #70)

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
81. Thanks. Bernie had his own list, as Hillary had hers.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 07:23 PM
Jan 2018

All this excitement is ridiculous.

Bernie is probably right. Those who supported him and want to support Democrats now are probably already on the Democratic list.

Those who supported Bernie but don't generally want to support Democrats probably would not respond to communications from the Democratic Party anyway.

Democrats are wiser to just respect Bernie's wish to protect his list.

sheshe2

(83,336 posts)
95. Yikes.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 08:20 PM
Jan 2018
Bernie is probably right. Those who supported him and want to support Democrats now are probably already on the Democratic list.


They are just :"Those who supported him and want to support Democrats now are probably already on the Democratic list." What does this even mean...what list were they on before? So you are talking independent third party voters? People for Stein?

Interesting.

Those who supported Bernie but don't generally want to support Democrats probably would not respond to communications from the Democratic Party anyway.


Wow the peeps that supported BS as a Dem hate Dems and refuse to respond to them. On again off again and they are very fickle.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
99. In California a lot of them are listed on the voter rolls.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 08:27 PM
Jan 2018

It's easy to get their names and addresses. And if the Democratic Party invites comments on websites or signatures on petitions that would appeal to Bernie supporters, the Democratic Party will get the names without having to ask Bernie.

It's very easy if you have a good attitude.

I should explain. In California you have to be registered as a Democrat to vote in a Democratic primary -- or as an independent and know enough to request a certain kind of ballot.

A lot of Bernie supporters are registered as Independents or as Democrats in California. All the Democratic Party has to do is to send door-to-door canvassers to the addresses of Independents to find out whether they are Democrats.

In my neighborhood we get canvassers before every election.

This is easy here. Just go door to door. That's how you win elections anyway. Most Bernie supporters agree with a lot of Democratic views on the issues. The Democratic Party does not need Bernie's list.

I've been an active Democrat for many years. This is ordinary work that we who are active do.

sheshe2

(83,336 posts)
109. Wow.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 08:50 PM
Jan 2018
It's easy to get their names and addresses. And if the Democratic Party invites comments on websites or signatures on petitions that would appeal to Bernie supporters, the Democratic Party will get the names without having to ask Bernie.

It's very easy if you have a good attitude.


Why do we need to get BS supporters with a so said "good attitude", they should be after the same things we all believe in. Why are they so hard to get?

A lot of Bernie supporters are registered as Independents or as Democrats in California. All the Democratic Party has to do is to send door-to-door canvassers to the addresses of Independents to find out whether they are Democrats.


So are you going door to door to make this happen? I am not from CA. you are. You are part of the Democratic party. Do it!
 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
125. I've done it for years. We campaign for candidate by going from door to door.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 11:33 PM
Jan 2018

We also table at for instance farmers' markets.

You write up a petition and get people to sign it. Then you have their addresses, telephone numbers, etc.

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
137. We only have Democratic lists...we do not call on others.
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 10:54 AM
Jan 2018

This is true in every state I have ever lived in.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
143. In my neighborhood, I go door to door because we are mostly blue.
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 02:42 PM
Jan 2018

My neighbors across the street voted Peace and Freedom and I do not know what all for years. Reaching out beyond party lines on issues and bringing people to vote for Democrats can work. The tax bill and Trump's rudeness are good playing cards for Democrats this year.

You win elections by bringing in voters who might not have voted for your party in the past. It is especially important to bring in young voters.'

Another way you can reach out is by putting up a table at events like the farmers' market and registering and talking to voters there. You will talk to Republicans, Independents and Democrats. Only put charming, patient people at tables. It's a great way to reach out to voters who may not be registered as Democrats. Lots of women goo to farmers' markets. Smile. Be friendly. Don't worry too much about the politics or persuasion. Make a good, warm and friendly, welcoming impression. That is what wakes voters up and allows them to check into the Democratic candidates at home after they meet you. If they like you, they will be open to voting for your candidate.

Do this also on college campuses and at other events.

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
150. We have list that can even tell if the person early voted. We go out and ask them if hey need a ride
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 07:22 PM
Jan 2018

etc. On election day, in the late afternoon we get lists of those who have not voted and go back asking if they need rides...I drove a number of people to the polls in 16. And I am proud to say our small Ohio city went for Clinton...wish I could say the same for the state.

progressoid

(49,825 posts)
165. During the Obama campaign, our call lists included Independents.
Thu Jan 18, 2018, 03:02 PM
Jan 2018

Don't know about the Clinton call lists because I only did door knocking in 2016.

lapucelle

(18,037 posts)
128. Independent voters are not registered with any party. They're unaffiliated
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 12:51 AM
Jan 2018

and designated as "No Party Preference" voters.

No Party Preference Information: Voting in the California Presidential Primary Elections

Voters who registered to vote without stating a political party preference are known as No Party Preference (NPP) voters. NPP voters were formerly known as "decline-to-state" or “DTS” voters.

For presidential elections: NPP voters, unless they choose otherwise (see below), will receive a “non-partisan” ballot that does not include presidential candidates. A nonpartisan ballot contains only the names of candidates for voter-nominated offices and local nonpartisan offices and measures.

http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/political-parties/no-party-preference/

snip--------------------------------------------------

Can you be registered as an Independent?

For the Democratic primary, if you're unaffiliated (“no party preference,” in California), you can vote in the Democratic primary. But if you're registered in the American Independent Party, that's a party affiliation that's neither Democrat nor Republican, so you can vote only for AIP candidates.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
129. Thanks. You are so right.
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 01:06 AM
Jan 2018

I appreciate your clarifying my post.

We always explain the meaning and history of the American Independent Party when we register voters.

I think my post was unclear about Independent voters in California. They register no party preference.

Thanks so much.

Hekate

(90,189 posts)
135. Interesting. I suppose you remember that Bernie was allowed to run as a Dem, and that he...
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 10:40 AM
Jan 2018

...ultimately had a large say in the contents of the Democratic platform at the Dem Convention.

In what way have he and his supporters returned the favor since then? Because in the political world of reality the Party did him and his a massive favor. Massiive.

Yet here we are a year into a virtual fascist and racist takeover of the federal government and the lower courts with certain persons still saying they will stay home or vote third party should their favored candidate not make it out of the primaries.



Me.

(35,454 posts)
44. + 1 Million
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 04:13 PM
Jan 2018

And...as Our Revo said they'd be open to supporting the Republicans, is that who they'll be sharing the list with, including the data stolen from Hillary.

Response to Me. (Reply #44)

Me.

(35,454 posts)
50. Here's Something Else I Don't UNderstand
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 04:51 PM
Jan 2018

why are we Dems expected to put up with this? I feel like we've been robbed and nothing is being done about it but rewards, in the form of a free pass, are being handed out.

 

Wwcd

(6,288 posts)
58. We don't. Didn't need him then & we will never need anything from him.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 05:10 PM
Jan 2018

Some twisted s***, isn't it.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,097 posts)
77. Why are we not allowed to criticize Bernie here? Hell, were I allowed to I would have
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 07:12 PM
Jan 2018

a lot to say and it would not be controversial anymore, but I cant.

Me.

(35,454 posts)
92. THese Are Questions For The Universe At Large
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 07:51 PM
Jan 2018



Though I suspect there will be more freedom to express our thoughts and support only DEms as time moves through this year.

The Polack MSgt

(13,159 posts)
23. A well reasoned, well written response.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 03:22 PM
Jan 2018


Where did you intend to post this? Not on DU obviously - DU is for Sturm und Drang.

Like the old Monty Python skit "I wanted and argument - Sorry this is abuse"

karynnj

(59,475 posts)
35. Thanks for the comment and the Monty Python link!
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 03:49 PM
Jan 2018

I hope that more people will move beyond the camps formed in 2015/2016. I would have expected it to have become better by now. I know this did not happen after 2000 or 2004.

The Democratic party needs everyone pushing for victory in 2018. However, as we do not have the Presidency, we do not really have a head of the party. (I know people say that is the DNC head, but in reality, that has not been the case at least in modern times.) That means that we will and should have many voices trying to define our vision. I heard Keith Ellison do a great job in a speech in Burlington where he spoke of essentially the same things as the 2016 platform, but called it an American vision. You could say that Oprah's speech also expressed a vision. Until we again have a Presidential nominee, any calls to have ONE voice are premature. However, the goals, policy and vision defined by any potential leader of the party are all moves in the same direction. Until then, any path to reach people that works should be used.

mcar

(42,210 posts)
26. Weren't Bernie and his supporters calling for Unity?
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 03:25 PM
Jan 2018

Isn't Bernie on the DNC's Unity committee? How does this selfish act lead to unity?

Seems to me that when Bernie says unity, he really means do what I want.

karynnj

(59,475 posts)
29. It depends on the best way to get out a Democratic message
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 03:32 PM
Jan 2018

My argument is that even if there was ONE absolutely identical message to get out, it might be read by more and accepted by more if the message is sent to people who signed up for the DNC by the DNC and to the Sanders list by Sanders. (Obviously, the source of the text should be attributed to whomever wrote it.)

mcar

(42,210 posts)
31. That could be
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 03:34 PM
Jan 2018

But that's still no reason to withhold the list. The DNC could send out the same message, one from Bernie, another from someone else.

karynnj

(59,475 posts)
36. So, essentially the DNC would have someone managing the Sanders email list and sending out messages
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 03:52 PM
Jan 2018

under the Sanders name? Other than being more complicated, how does that help?

Response to karynnj (Reply #40)

Response to karynnj (Reply #47)

brush

(53,470 posts)
131. Just combine the Dem list with the Sanders list, one list. Not complicated.
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 02:32 AM
Jan 2018

All Democratic candidates share.

If Sanders' camp doesn't want to do that, that's fine but good luck with getting on Dem primary ballots with that selfish attitude.

There will be new, younger, attractive candidates who won't have that "been there, done that already" feel about them.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
82. Most of the people on Bernie's list are probably already on the Democratic Party's
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 07:26 PM
Jan 2018

list. And if they aren't, it's probably because they don't want to be on the Democratic Party's list.

So what difference does it make?

A lot of the information is probably already too old anyway.

Making a big fuss over this is just absurd.

Justice

(7,182 posts)
64. No need to be negative in order to make the basic point that Sanders could send an email to his list
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 05:28 PM
Jan 2018

and invite them to support the DNC or Congressional Democrats or Senate Democrats.

For people that get emails from Sanders - does he do this now? Has he every done it?

Does Sanders invite people to support individual Democratic candidates? Has he ever done it?

I think this statement is wrong - "significant percent of the Sanders list would NOT want to get email from the DNC" and there is no need to say that when the real solution is just for Sanders to send an email to invite supporters to sign up with DNC.

karynnj

(59,475 posts)
162. You are reading the negativity into what I wrote
Thu Jan 18, 2018, 11:47 AM
Jan 2018

I would say that there were TWO main points - one that Sanders could send an email inviting people to join the main Democratic lists. The other was that there is an advantage to having this parallel outreach under Sanders name. I used the example of the Kerry list which raised a huge amount of money for candidates in 2006. I also know that in 2005, allies of the DSC tried to (unsuccessfully) publicly pressure (using Daily Kos) Kerry into giving all his PAC money to the DSC - even as they ignored that DSC head, Schumer, actually had more money in his PAC.

Sanders has supported individual Democratic candidates and there were many DU threads on that. As to my comment being wrong, neither of us have any proof that could definitely decide who is right. I would argue that it comes down to the meaning of the word "significant" and I think it is very hard to argue that the proportion is insignificant. Because Sanders did NOT become the nominee, his list never expanded to get people for whom he was not the preferred candidate. Therefore, that list contains ONLY the portion of the population who supported a candidate who was pretty far from the organized center of the party. In addition, there might be many on that list who saw the DNC as against their nominee - even before the email hack.

What is known is that - at one time - these people liked Sanders enough to sign up for his email list AND they have not yet unsubscribed. This suggests that they either want or are at least not annoyed to get emails from him. It seems obvious to me that this is a self selected group of people for whom Bernie Sanders is the best messenger of a Democratic message. Consider that in addition to the Sanders list, there are MANY independent activists groups that are also messaging people. Move on and Bold Progressives are two of them -- should they also give their lists to the DNC and disappear?

Your post seems to assume that it would be best if the DNC was the exclusive messenger to Democrats and independents usually allied with us. I would argue that more is lost by having one voice than is gained.



 

disillusioned73

(2,872 posts)
32. So in other words..
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 03:36 PM
Jan 2018

nothing has changed..people are so easily manipulated and/or disingenuous w/ their faux outrage..

Response to DonViejo (Original post)

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
37. You are accusing DUers are being bots and Russians because they're mad Sanders
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 03:52 PM
Jan 2018

didn't do what every other Democrat did, when they agreed to use the Democratic data base, and share his own data.

Wow.

Weaver is STILL a staffer. As recently as a week ago, Weaver made an official Sanders statement about the Federal investigation of Jane Sanders.

Justice

(7,182 posts)
41. Who made Weaver (or Bernie) the decider about whether people on list would support a Democrat?
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 03:57 PM
Jan 2018

Maybe Weaver is correct and the Bernie supporters would not support a Democrat or the DNC.

Why should Weaver (or Bernie) get to decide that? Shouldn't the people on the list decide? Shouldn't they get an email and be invited to participate - and then decide for themselves?

Response to Justice (Reply #41)

Tarheel_Dem

(31,207 posts)
43. Why is Sanders still protected at DU? These aren't the actions of an ally. They're much more....
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 04:09 PM
Jan 2018

Last edited Tue Jan 16, 2018, 05:41 PM - Edit history (1)

Nader-esque.

 

Wwcd

(6,288 posts)
62. That's a damn good question. Considering his purpose in the campaign was for "Money & Media".
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 05:23 PM
Jan 2018

His words.
And don't get me started on "Rape Fantasy"
Nothing says Democratic Party like some 30 yr old's deep dark thoughts on Rape!
Ya. Go bern.

pecosbob

(7,502 posts)
53. It's 2018, not 2016...
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 04:55 PM
Jan 2018

I'm not voting for Bernie Sanders in 2018...I'm also not voting for Hillary in 2018...can we move on now people?

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
56. Yes... 2018 mid-term just around the corner. Gotta keep focused on flipping
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 05:03 PM
Jan 2018

Congress to Democratic control... first things first.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
72. When Bernie accepted the use of the DNC database, he agreed to share his own database
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 07:05 PM
Jan 2018

with the DNC after the election -- as every other candidate agreed, all the way down the ticket. This is a way to build up the party for EVERYONE.

Bernie has broken the commitment, and we should remember that next time he wants to run under the party banner.

lark

(23,003 posts)
54. Then Sanders should not run for the nomination of the party he's disrespecting.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 04:58 PM
Jan 2018

There is no nominating process for Democratic Socialism. The only question is does he let Putin/drumpf or Stein types push him into running again? While i do like his policies, I am no longer fond of the man. I voted for him in the primaries last time, but highly doubt I'd do that again.

left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
65. Correct
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 05:55 PM
Jan 2018

Was the DNC impartial in 2016,
or did someone have their finger on the scale?



And now they want Bernie's email list of supporters?

Uh, no.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
75. Bernie and all candidates who used the DNC database agreed to share their own databases
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 07:08 PM
Jan 2018

with the DNC to help build the DNC database and help everyone in the party.

Bernie's the only one who reneged on the deal.

left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
87. Maybe Bernie thinks ...
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 07:38 PM
Jan 2018

The DNC didn't play fair with him?

Isn't that what former DNC Chair Donna Brazile said?

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
88. Then he must have forgotten about how his team went tip-toeing
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 07:43 PM
Jan 2018

through Hillary's proprietary data in the database, and even downloaded files of Hillary's into their part of the database.

That certainly wasn't playing fair, which is why he fired the ringleader.

Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #106)

Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #110)

 

Wwcd

(6,288 posts)
117. Sorry won't playback.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 09:15 PM
Jan 2018

I have no idea what this is about & unless its an answer to the data theft, then it's irrelevant.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
118. If he were honorable he would have lived up to his agreement with the DNC
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 09:42 PM
Jan 2018

when the DNC gave him access to its database.

Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #87)

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
103. Was there an agreement to share, specifically, DONOR information?
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 08:36 PM
Jan 2018

I thought the agreement was that the DNC had certain voter database information that it would make available to all candidates. I don't remember an agreement by candidates to provide the DNC with donor information or, indeed, with any other follow-up they made based on the DNC's information.

BTW, that's why there was all this bullshit (repeated in this thread) about Bernie "stealing" the Clinton campaign's information. The Bernie staffer thought that the DNC wasn't properly securing each candidate's info, confirmed this suspicion by ascertaining that the barriers between campaigns could be breached, and reported the problem.

Putting that digression aside, though -- you've made an assertion about an agreement and a charge about Bernie reneging. Your statements don't accord with my memory but it's been a while and I might have forgotten something. Might I trouble you to provide a link for your serious accusation?

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
119. No, the Bernie people EXPLORED Hillary's site, opening the doors, walking in,
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 09:44 PM
Jan 2018

and even copied some items and put them out in the (figurative) garage in a box with their name on it.

Here's a link about the DNC and Bernie's voter/donor info. Look at page 3/16, item e, of the agreement

https://www.fastcompany.com/3061788/even-more-valuable-than-his-endorsement-bernie-may-have-started-sharing-data

On Tuesday morning in a carefully choreographed appearance in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, Bernie Sanders ended his bid for the presidency and endorsed his fierce rival, the “establishment” candidate Hillary Clinton, much to the chagrin of millions of hardcore Bernie supporters.

SNIP

It’s long been the strategy of the Democratic Party to pool the voter data collected by Democratic campaigns in a master voter record so that future campaigns could borrow it, benefit from it, and add data to it.

Both the Clinton and Sanders campaigns started with the DNC voter file, then began adding their own proprietary data to it at the start of the campaign. The campaigns use the same software platform—NGP VAN— for collecting and managing this data; but during the primary the campaigns’ proprietary voter data was kept in separate silos.

Then, on December 16 of last year, a Sanders data staffer got access to some proprietary Clinton voter data (the result of a software bug), and when the DNC found out it cut the Bernie campaign’s access to its voter records in NGP VAN. Bernie sued the DNC for damages and the restoration of access to the voter records. The staffer was fired, and the whole mess was eventually worked out between the parties.

Buried in the court documents is the data agreement between the Sanders campaign and the DNC, which spells out the fate of his voter data. In short, the agreement states that if Sanders drops out of the primary race, the campaign’s proprietary voter data is then joined with the DNC’s master file, which it can then lend it to whatever campaign it sees fit. So, legally at least, and barring any separate verbal agreement between the parties, the Clinton camp can use the data for modeling and targeting right now.

karynnj

(59,475 posts)
167. You may be conflating three different things - the voter records, the email list and the donor lists
Thu Jan 18, 2018, 03:20 PM
Jan 2018

The DNC data base contains the list of voters, updated with information of how they stand on a given election. In the primaries, this usually contained info on whether they intended to vote and in the primary (and was it the Democratic primary) and if so who they favored. Every campaign I called or canvased for had a pretty similar scale where you indicated how strong that preference was. In the general election, it was the information was similar. That information was helpful for GOTV, but it had long term value as well.

( I don't know how well it was used because - at least in Morris County NJ, the number of inaccurate records where people had moved, changed phone numbers etc was pretty high. I wonder if they really did use our info on that to clean the files after the election.)

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
168. No, it was clear from the written contract. The voter contact information that BERNIE collected
Thu Jan 18, 2018, 03:42 PM
Jan 2018

was supposed to be given to the DNC in exchange for renting the DNC database. The DNC database would thus be enlarged, which would help all candidates down the road.

The agreement is in the second document below, page 3 out of 16, and the clause is "e."

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000151-b72f-d1ae-add5-f76f14db0001

karynnj

(59,475 posts)
171. Weaver's comment was about the EMAIL list -- not "voter information"
Thu Jan 18, 2018, 04:27 PM
Jan 2018

Nothing anywhere in the op or in your link says that he did not transfer his "voter information". In fact, as they were using a DNC database, the DNC had all the data collected from everyone. They controlled the "walls or barriers" during the primaries - and I assume they worked to reconcile the info from various campaigns to get a more accurate data base going forward.

Given that the DNC controlled the database - remember when they did not let the Sanders people access it, it was never an issue of Bernie "giving" them the information. It was THEIR system.

What Weaver is speaking of is the email list that supporters added their emails to -- this is NOT what the DNC contract refers to.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
172. No, the DNC only had the original info in the database. Information that Bernie
Thu Jan 18, 2018, 06:42 PM
Jan 2018

and other candidates collected on their own, including contact info (which includes emails) was supposed to be shared with the DNC AFTER the primaries. That's what they failed to do.

karynnj

(59,475 posts)
173. The DNC information was the VOTER database
Thu Jan 18, 2018, 11:15 PM
Jan 2018

They started with the voter information from a state and any past information they had. That info is used to generate the lists that you call from or canvass. This lists is designed to ideally have every voter in the district. (in states like NJ, it includes the registration info - D, R, independent)

The information entered by any campaign included any info on who they would vote for - in the primary AND if the person indicated that they were going to vote Republican. If you ever volunteered that information that you collected is what the campaign inputs into the database -- and that is the information that the contract is speaking about.

The email list that is referred to is the list that received email from Bernie including requests for money. This is a list that people signed up to be on.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
174. The emails were part of Bernie's proprietary information and he agreed to share it all
Thu Jan 18, 2018, 11:30 PM
Jan 2018

with the DNC after the primaries were over.



https://www.fastcompany.com/3061788/even-more-valuable-than-his-endorsement-bernie-may-have-started-sharing-data

On Tuesday morning in a carefully choreographed appearance in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, Bernie Sanders ended his bid for the presidency and endorsed his fierce rival, the “establishment” candidate Hillary Clinton, much to the chagrin of millions of hardcore Bernie supporters.

SNIP

It’s long been the strategy of the Democratic Party to pool the voter data collected by Democratic campaigns in a master voter record so that future campaigns could borrow it, benefit from it, and add data to it.

Both the Clinton and Sanders campaigns started with the DNC voter file, then began adding their own proprietary data to it at the start of the campaign. The campaigns use the same software platform—NGP VAN— for collecting and managing this data; but during the primary the campaigns’ proprietary voter data was kept in separate silos.

Then, on December 16 of last year, a Sanders data staffer got access to some proprietary Clinton voter data (the result of a software bug), and when the DNC found out it cut the Bernie campaign’s access to its voter records in NGP VAN. Bernie sued the DNC for damages and the restoration of access to the voter records. The staffer was fired, and the whole mess was eventually worked out between the parties.

Buried in the court documents is the data agreement between the Sanders campaign and the DNC, which spells out the fate of his voter data. In short, the agreement states that if Sanders drops out of the primary race, the campaign’s proprietary voter data is then joined with the DNC’s master file, which it can then lend it to whatever campaign it sees fit. So, legally at least, and barring any separate verbal agreement between the parties, the Clinton camp can use the data for modeling and targeting right now.

karynnj

(59,475 posts)
175. Reading comprehension helps -- look at your top highlighted sentence -
Thu Jan 18, 2018, 11:46 PM
Jan 2018

It speaks of pooling the VOTER DATA. The data that is referred to - the proprietary Clinton and proprietary Sanders data, which were kept in separate silos on VGP VAN. NOTE THIS IS THE DNC's system controlled by the DNC.

Now look at the second highlight. It refers to the proprietary voter data and says that all campaigns agree that after they are out, the data belongs to the DNC.

NOTE: This is NOT their donor or email list.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
74. So you would reneg on a commitment that you made when you accepted the use of the DNC database.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 07:07 PM
Jan 2018

Are you aware that all candidates, up and down the ticket, agree to share their information as a condition for using the DNC database? That works to improve the Database for EVERYONE.

left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
122. "That works to improve the Database for EVERYONE"
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 10:29 PM
Jan 2018

Except Donna Brazile showed us in her book how the DNC was partial to just one candidate.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
123. Donna Brazile's book-selling hype didn't live up to the reality. Hillary had signed TWO contracts
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 10:50 PM
Jan 2018

with the DNC, one before and one after the primary win, and only the second contract gave her a preference.

Hillary and Bernie signed the SAME agreement with the DNC about sharing their data, and only Hillary kept her written, contractural promise. She has donated all her data to the party to use however it wishes.


https://www.fastcompany.com/3061788/even-more-valuable-than-his-endorsement-bernie-may-have-started-sharing-data

On Tuesday morning in a carefully choreographed appearance in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, Bernie Sanders ended his bid for the presidency and endorsed his fierce rival, the “establishment” candidate Hillary Clinton, much to the chagrin of millions of hardcore Bernie supporters.

SNIP

It’s long been the strategy of the Democratic Party to pool the voter data collected by Democratic campaigns in a master voter record so that future campaigns could borrow it, benefit from it, and add data to it.

Both the Clinton and Sanders campaigns started with the DNC voter file, then began adding their own proprietary data to it at the start of the campaign. The campaigns use the same software platform—NGP VAN— for collecting and managing this data; but during the primary the campaigns’ proprietary voter data was kept in separate silos.

Then, on December 16 of last year, a Sanders data staffer got access to some proprietary Clinton voter data (the result of a software bug), and when the DNC found out it cut the Bernie campaign’s access to its voter records in NGP VAN. Bernie sued the DNC for damages and the restoration of access to the voter records. The staffer was fired, and the whole mess was eventually worked out between the parties.

Buried in the court documents is the data agreement between the Sanders campaign and the DNC, which spells out the fate of his voter data. In short, the agreement states that if Sanders drops out of the primary race, the campaign’s proprietary voter data is then joined with the DNC’s master file, which it can then lend it to whatever campaign it sees fit. So, legally at least, and barring any separate verbal agreement between the parties, the Clinton camp can use the data for modeling and targeting right now.

Beartracks

(12,761 posts)
66. Based on this thread, when the shit gets stirred...
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 06:02 PM
Jan 2018

... some want to make sure it gets stirred HARD.

=========

ms liberty

(8,478 posts)
94. This.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 08:16 PM
Jan 2018

Lots of energy involved in venting about what Someone said about what they think Someone Else might do. Mind you, they never reported on what Someone Else said when they asked them about what Someone said about what they might do, so we don't even know if they asked Someone Else about what Someone said. So the piece is all about Someone speculating about Someone Else.

So yea, shit stirring 101, from several directions. Some here are lapping it up because, Bernie.

emulatorloo

(43,979 posts)
97. Bernie would be better served with a spokesperson other that Hothead Weaver.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 08:26 PM
Jan 2018

That incompetent fool’s strategery and hyperbolic bullshit is one of the reasons Sanders lost the primary IMHO.

Cha

(295,903 posts)
68. The chairman of Michigans Democratic Party, Brandon Dillon, in a comment to Politico downplayed.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 06:19 PM
Jan 2018
the importance of obtaining Sanders’s email list.

“The fundamentals are what’s going to be important, not whether we have Bernie’s email list or not,” Dillon told the news outlet."


I agree.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
73. The river flows both ways, Jeff
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 07:05 PM
Jan 2018

And technically, Bernie doesn't even merit discussion until he starts putting a 'D' after his name again...

Eliot Rosewater

(31,097 posts)
76. WHAT the FUCK!
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 07:10 PM
Jan 2018


I tried to act surprised. Cant.

I also noticed today his pal is posting at DU about why isnt the media taking Chelsea Manning seriously.

sigh

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017475403


Wonder why he cares so much.

Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #76)

Response to DonViejo (Original post)

 

Devil Child

(2,728 posts)
90. The hate machine rolls on
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 07:47 PM
Jan 2018

Base on speculation by Jeff Weaver. No where does the article provide evidence that Sen. Sander will refuse to work with the DNC.

Just another anti-Bernie hit-piece.

emulatorloo

(43,979 posts)
100. Weavers a frigging gaffe machine. There would be fewer alledged Hit Pieces if Weaver would stick
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 08:28 PM
Jan 2018

to selling comic books

 

wasupaloopa

(4,516 posts)
105. Sanders lost the primary. His voters
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 08:37 PM
Jan 2018

will be like all of us come November.

Vote or stay home.

This is not the time to play games.

Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #105)

 

OnyxSharpie

(33 posts)
121. Why would he?
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 10:19 PM
Jan 2018

It’s clear he’ll be running in 2020. If he gives up that list, it’ll alienate his supporters more than it did when he supported Hillary’s campaign. Those small donations were what powered his campaign in 2016 - no way could he take that chance. Now if he wasn’t planning to run again in 2020, I’d say he had no reason not to give up the list.

Dawson Leery

(19,348 posts)
126. Then Bernie should not be allowed to run
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 11:36 PM
Jan 2018

on the Democratic Ticket in 2020. You don't support the party, you cannot run under it's banner.

Vinca

(50,170 posts)
142. I was a big Bernie supporter, but this just isn't right.
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 02:37 PM
Jan 2018

Bernie ran as a Democrat and it should be all hands on deck to oust Trump.

haele

(12,581 posts)
149. Only matters in states where the primary candidates could keep their own lists afer the primary.
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 04:32 PM
Jan 2018

In many - if not most - states, if you run in a state party Primary and take party money, your lists of supporters and likely voters are the property of the state party after the primary. That means email lists, also.

Haele

lapucelle

(18,037 posts)
156. One would expect an Outreach Chair
Wed Jan 17, 2018, 09:05 PM
Jan 2018

to do everything in his power to help those who entrusted him with that responsibility to reach out to as many potential voters as possible.

harun

(11,348 posts)
170. Good
Thu Jan 18, 2018, 04:17 PM
Jan 2018

DNC is doing everything they can to thwart Progressives, why would Progressives want them to have our email address?

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