Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Eugene

(61,872 posts)
Thu Jan 25, 2018, 05:07 PM Jan 2018

Justice Dept. sides with conservative groups in free speech lawsuit against Berkeley

Source: Washington Post

By Matt Zapotosky January 25 at 1:00 PM

The Justice Department plans to file a statement of interest siding with two conservative groups who have sued the University of California at Berkeley, alleging that administrators created logistical and other hurdles that forced the cancellation or modification of planned events with right-leaning speakers.

Justice Department spokeswoman Sarah Isgur Flores said Thursday on CNN that the department was getting involved in the case because officials wanted “to protect against universities — the government really, if you’re a public university — deciding which speech is favored, which ideas are too controversial to even allow to be heard on a college campus.”

Attorney General Jeff Sessions has been outspoken about free speech on college campuses, and in advance of his department’s planned court filing, Associate Attorney General Rachel Brand penned a column for Fox News criticizing the practices at some colleges.

“Free speech is under attack at college campuses across the country,” Brand wrote. “The problem is not limited to a few colleges barring radical speakers to avoid a riot. Universities large and small, public and private, are restricting students’ and professors’ speech or enabling others to silence speech with which they disagree.”

-snip-


Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/justice-dept-sides-with-conservative-groups-in-free-speech-lawsuit-against-berkeley/2018/01/25/46f5ced0-01e3-11e8-bb03-722769454f82_story.html

20 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Justice Dept. sides with conservative groups in free speech lawsuit against Berkeley (Original Post) Eugene Jan 2018 OP
BIg surprise. Because of actions a couple years back by some, our new normal is Eliot Rosewater Jan 2018 #1
They are purposely targeting the state/public universities BumRushDaShow Jan 2018 #2
Judith Butler on Free Speech Jim__ Jan 2018 #3
Limiting of free speech on university campuses is unacceptable. tymorial Jan 2018 #4
Better have on your asbestos underware The Mouth Jan 2018 #6
I totally Agree with you. bitterross Jan 2018 #7
I agree Puzzledtraveller Jan 2018 #20
If it were universities suppressing liberal speakers, DU would be outraged Lurks Often Jan 2018 #5
Indeed and this is exactly what happened in the 60s at Berkley tymorial Jan 2018 #14
Most here aren't ignoring the past..... Lurks Often Jan 2018 #16
I didn't write most. I wrote some. tymorial Jan 2018 #19
The DOJ SHOULD Side with them in this case bitterross Jan 2018 #8
Easy solution: don't invite them in the first place. Problem solved. Initech Jan 2018 #9
That is not an option. The students have the freedom to invite them if they choose. bitterross Jan 2018 #10
Your statement is the entire basis of the lawsuit. tymorial Jan 2018 #11
So if you don't invite them, they get mad. Initech Jan 2018 #13
This isn't about that at all. nt tymorial Jan 2018 #15
Then what is it about? Initech Jan 2018 #18
I forgot, the 1st Amendment only applies to people YOU like and no one else. Lurks Often Jan 2018 #17
The Republicans stack the courts and make opposing their ideology illegal machI Jan 2018 #12

BumRushDaShow

(128,891 posts)
2. They are purposely targeting the state/public universities
Thu Jan 25, 2018, 05:29 PM
Jan 2018

in order to do these types of suits, and then bring in the provocateurs to start the riots.

Jim__

(14,075 posts)
3. Judith Butler on Free Speech
Thu Jan 25, 2018, 05:37 PM
Jan 2018

This is a short talk given at Berkeley by Judith Butler in December 2017. An excerpt:

...

We have perhaps all tired of the Milo Yiannapolis lecture invitation that was issued by College Republicans last year. I joined a letter calling for the cancellation of that talk, and I asked that the reference to hate speech be struck from the letter. To my surprise, it remained, and so too did my signature. The problem I had with his planned talk was not that he was expressing conservative ideas; the problem was that he brought cameras into his lecture hall on several occasions, and projected images of members of his audience on a screen against their will and then proceeded to shame and berate people for being fat or for being trans or, indeed, for being ugly in his view. Yiannopolis had posted a photo of Adelaide Kramer, a trans student at the University of Wisconsin – Milwaukee, on the backdrop screen of his lecture and then not only jeered at her, but encouraged others to do the same. Perhaps shaming and berating someone against his or her will, however offensive, is protected speech as long as it does not constitute a physical threat to the person shamed and berated. But it surely does constitute harassment of the kind that all faculty and student instructors know about through the obligatory training we take in compliance with Title IX (or what is now left of Title IX). I will take up that point in a moment.

There are at least two noteworthy dimensions of this story. One has to do with the use of cameras and “trigger cams” that project images of audience members against their will and the direct appeal to those watching or present to mock, harass, troll, the person and to flood that person’s email with insult and to hound that person. The other has to do with whether it is right to say that the first amendment came into conflict with anti-harassment protocols that we learned ought to be honored in the classroom and in all forms of social interaction with students. And further, how the invocation of the first amendment also goes against the core values of the university, ones that are time and again invoked to encourage us to engage in thoughtful conversation about controversial issues.

Let me take each of these issues separately, and then make a final remark. The projection of the image of Adelaide Kramer was not done with her consent, and the appeal to audience members and those watching online to flood the email, expose personal information, and invade privacy seemed to many of us a problem. What do we call what happened to Adelaide Kramer at Milwaukee, the trans student who found her image projected on the wall during the event, and then witnessed “in frozen terror” as the speaker incited the audience to harass her. So I use the word “harassment” and so, too, did President Mone of the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. Maybe we shrug our shoulders and say that this is expressive activity, but arguably it crosses the line between expressive activity and threat; and that line was crossed in a new way because of the way technology is now used tp incite people to engage in forms of cyber-bullying that did not exist before. So the legal vocabulary we have for distinguishing expressive activity from actual threats, or an incitement to engage in illegal activity – those latter two are not protected as expressive freedoms under the first amendment – the way we make that distinction changes when new technologies, or new uses of technology, produce new possibilities for incitement, harassment, and the commission of illegal activities. I am not sure which conservative viewpoints were being expressed at that moment: I could try to find propositional form for those actions, but would I then be generously and speculatively reconstructing the act as an idea, and so drawing attention away from this very specific form of targeting that included screening the image without consent, verbal incitement to harass that person, and calls to invade that person’s privacy.

One reason why in meeting with College Republicans, I and some other signatories of that letter asked whether their group could not invite someone with the same viewpoints but who would neither threaten expose members of the audience against their will through the trigger cam nor incite harassment against targeted members of the audience or the campus community. Although all the signatories opposed the conservative ideas, only some of us opposed the talk on the basis of the ideas expressed, noting the fascism, the racism, the transphobia, even the homophobia – I will return to these. One distinguishing feature of this case, however – and one reason nobody circulated a petition against Ben Shapiro – was the use of invasive visual technology in conjunction with explicit calls to invade privacy. Some of us asked both the student group and the administration to make sure that this technology would not be used by stipulating it as a condition of the contract. Our suggestions were not taken up as far as I know. Given that the university can honor the principle of speech and still regulate the time, place, and manner of the expressive activity in question, can we perhaps understand this form of technology as part of the “manner” and so subject to regulation? Or is it the case that this form of targeting and incitement moves us out of the domain of expressive activity altogether and into a consideration of harms and/or illegal activities.

...

tymorial

(3,433 posts)
4. Limiting of free speech on university campuses is unacceptable.
Thu Jan 25, 2018, 05:48 PM
Jan 2018

I realize that I may be in the minority when it comes to this opinion.

The Mouth

(3,148 posts)
6. Better have on your asbestos underware
Thu Jan 25, 2018, 06:06 PM
Jan 2018

Lots of folks, both right and left, are quite OK with quashing any speech they do not agree with.

I agree with you.

If it's on the public's dime then even if they are calling for the execution of bald headed bassplayers (yours truly) let them speak. Even if they are calling for an Islamic state, let them speak; unless and until it is immediate and unambiguous incitement to riot, or defamation of character (both things that are well defined in common and Constitutional law) let them speak. no exceptions, no 'if's, ands or buts.

Suppression will just entice the curious and increase the fervor and sense of being attacked of the believers.

If NO ONE but the actual idiots themselves showed up for one of these rallies, and the press showed only the barest of interest because it was nothing but a few dozen mental midgets speaking to a nearly empty hall or square, a hundred or two tiki torch bearing losers in bad polyester at the most, it would hurt them far more than a small army of us lefties ready to do pitched battle and create a ruckus. They *NEED* a violent reaction, it's what their very purpose is, for after all they can merely disseminate and reinforce their crap via youtube or the like; if Milo had been merely greeted with a mostly empty hall and a few dozen losers he would shrivel up and blow away.


 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
7. I totally Agree with you.
Thu Jan 25, 2018, 06:20 PM
Jan 2018

It may be unpopular but we have to allow all speech. When we begin to limit speech just because we don't like it we become "THEM"

 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
5. If it were universities suppressing liberal speakers, DU would be outraged
Thu Jan 25, 2018, 06:04 PM
Jan 2018

however the suppression of free speech is perfectly acceptable among some here as long as it is conservative speakers.

tymorial

(3,433 posts)
14. Indeed and this is exactly what happened in the 60s at Berkley
Thu Jan 25, 2018, 07:42 PM
Jan 2018

Obviously DU wasn't around but some here were. I would hope all of us know the history and understand its importance. The left spearheaded the 60s free speech movement and Berkley was the seat. The fact that suppression is happening at all is horrible. That it is occurring at Berkley of all places is extremely troubling regardless of the politics involved.

Clearly, some are either willfully ignoring our past or choosing hypocrisy by actively or silently supporting suppression of free speech.

tymorial

(3,433 posts)
19. I didn't write most. I wrote some.
Thu Jan 25, 2018, 08:49 PM
Jan 2018

Last edited Fri Jan 26, 2018, 09:58 AM - Edit history (1)

Last message was rather confusing. Lol.

 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
8. The DOJ SHOULD Side with them in this case
Thu Jan 25, 2018, 06:22 PM
Jan 2018

If the Universities were putting up road blocks in order to prevent their speech then the universities must be stopped from doing that.

This sounds no better than putting up road blocks to voting for minorities. Same principle. Make it too difficult so they go away.

That is not acceptable.

Initech

(100,065 posts)
9. Easy solution: don't invite them in the first place. Problem solved.
Thu Jan 25, 2018, 06:26 PM
Jan 2018

The alt right is playing a dangerous game of chicken with free speech and when they win, we all lose. Best solution is don't give these clowns a forum to speak in, in the first place.

 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
10. That is not an option. The students have the freedom to invite them if they choose.
Thu Jan 25, 2018, 06:29 PM
Jan 2018

If the students want to invite them they must be allowed to do so.

Initech

(100,065 posts)
13. So if you don't invite them, they get mad.
Thu Jan 25, 2018, 07:35 PM
Jan 2018

If you do invite them, and they don't get enough publicity, they get mad.

If you don't invite them, they sue until you do invite them.

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Fuck these assholes.

machI

(1,285 posts)
12. The Republicans stack the courts and make opposing their ideology illegal
Thu Jan 25, 2018, 07:24 PM
Jan 2018

If an organization refuses to hear conservative propaganda, they will be receiving an action from the Justice Department.

Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Justice Dept. sides with ...