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Thu Feb 1, 2018, 11:01 PM

Tillerson says Venezuelan military may turn on Maduro

Source: BBC

The US State Department Secretary, Rex Tillerson, has suggested Venezuela may face a military coup.
Mr Tillerson said the US was not advocating regime change and that he had no intelligence on any planned action.

But he said that historically the military in Latin America has often intervened in times of serious crises.
He was speaking at the University of Texas ahead of his Latin America tour.

The secretary of state will visit Mexico, Argentina, Peru and Colombia, as well as Jamaica.
Mr Tillerson joked that Venezuela's President Nicolás Maduro should seek refuge in Cuba.

"If the kitchen gets a little too hot for him, I am sure that he's got some friends over in Cuba that could give him a nice hacienda [villa] on the beach," he said.

Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-42913191

84 replies, 8358 views

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Arrow 84 replies Author Time Post
Reply Tillerson says Venezuelan military may turn on Maduro (Original post)
pbmus Feb 2018 OP
Fred Sanders Feb 2018 #1
pbmus Feb 2018 #2
rpannier Feb 2018 #6
Fred Sanders Feb 2018 #12
GatoGordo Feb 2018 #15
Fred Sanders Feb 2018 #83
rpannier Feb 2018 #66
Blue_Tires Feb 2018 #69
lunasun Feb 2018 #3
pbmus Feb 2018 #4
GatoGordo Feb 2018 #20
2naSalit Feb 2018 #31
GatoGordo Feb 2018 #33
Fred Sanders Feb 2018 #84
melm00se Feb 2018 #67
lapfog_1 Feb 2018 #5
Perseus Feb 2018 #7
pbmus Feb 2018 #13
GatoGordo Feb 2018 #17
GatoGordo Feb 2018 #21
7962 Feb 2018 #8
COLGATE4 Feb 2018 #11
7962 Feb 2018 #23
COLGATE4 Feb 2018 #25
7962 Feb 2018 #26
COLGATE4 Feb 2018 #27
Mc Mike Feb 2018 #9
EX500rider Feb 2018 #54
Nitram Feb 2018 #10
Cha Feb 2018 #22
7962 Feb 2018 #42
Archae Feb 2018 #14
yurbud Feb 2018 #16
GatoGordo Feb 2018 #18
7962 Feb 2018 #24
Nitram Feb 2018 #30
yurbud Feb 2018 #35
GatoGordo Feb 2018 #47
yurbud Feb 2018 #70
7962 Feb 2018 #44
EX500rider Feb 2018 #72
GatoGordo Feb 2018 #19
yurbud Feb 2018 #36
GatoGordo Feb 2018 #46
WhiteTara Feb 2018 #28
Cold War Spook Feb 2018 #29
2naSalit Feb 2018 #32
GatoGordo Feb 2018 #34
yurbud Feb 2018 #37
EX500rider Feb 2018 #38
yurbud Feb 2018 #39
EX500rider Feb 2018 #40
Mc Mike Feb 2018 #41
7962 Feb 2018 #43
Mc Mike Feb 2018 #49
EX500rider Feb 2018 #68
GatoGordo Feb 2018 #45
Mc Mike Feb 2018 #48
7962 Feb 2018 #50
Mc Mike Feb 2018 #55
GatoGordo Feb 2018 #60
7962 Feb 2018 #64
GatoGordo Feb 2018 #59
7962 Feb 2018 #65
LanternWaste Feb 2018 #75
7962 Feb 2018 #77
Mc Mike Feb 2018 #81
EX500rider Feb 2018 #82
EX500rider Feb 2018 #80
LanternWaste Feb 2018 #74
EX500rider Feb 2018 #76
7962 Feb 2018 #78
EX500rider Feb 2018 #79
procon Feb 2018 #51
pbmus Feb 2018 #52
Mc Mike Feb 2018 #56
pbmus Feb 2018 #57
Mc Mike Feb 2018 #58
EX500rider Feb 2018 #53
GatoGordo Feb 2018 #61
yurbud Feb 2018 #71
EX500rider Feb 2018 #73
oneshooter Feb 2018 #62
GatoGordo Feb 2018 #63

Response to pbmus (Original post)

Thu Feb 1, 2018, 11:21 PM

1. Tell me again how Shitler and his henchman are not covertly underming yet another too far

to the left for comfort or profit Latin American country!

Seen this play before I think.

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 1, 2018, 11:22 PM

2. Its ugly, and dangerous..

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 2, 2018, 04:38 AM

6. Stupid comments like this prop up gov'ts like Maduro

He can point to what shill-erson said as 'proof' the US is trying to undermine Venezuela

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Response to rpannier (Reply #6)

Fri Feb 2, 2018, 11:28 AM

12. Intelligent comments like mine that insult no one but Shitler recognize history. Sad others

pretend not to!

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #12)

Fri Feb 2, 2018, 02:52 PM

15. Useful idiots, I believe the words that Vlad Lenin used

 

for people so blinded by extremist Marxist ideology that helped him foist his dictatorship 70 years upon the Russian citizenry.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #15)

Sat Feb 10, 2018, 02:27 PM

83. Lenin? Too funny!

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #12)

Mon Feb 5, 2018, 06:18 AM

66. My apologies

I just noticed you responded to my post and I was confused, then I got it
I wasn't referring to your comment being stupid, I was referring to the comment in the original post that shiller-son made
I am sorry for the confusion. In no way did I mean to infer that your comment was stupid. Though, I could easily see why you would.

Again... my apologies

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 5, 2018, 03:34 PM

69. Maduro is a piece of shit

and is NOT someone the left should claim, believe me...

Although the only reason why Tillerson gives a shit is because the oil hasn't been flowing like it should...

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Thu Feb 1, 2018, 11:29 PM

3. Oh please can you say oil ? No knowledge at all ..hmm

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Response to lunasun (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 1, 2018, 11:29 PM

4. LMAO

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Response to lunasun (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 2, 2018, 06:43 PM

20. Venezuela has a lot of shitty oil.

 

Heavy sour. They cannot even refine it themselves. And now because of a crumbling oil infrastructure, they cannot pump it out either.

Basically, it costs more to pump it out than what the oil is worth.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #20)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 11:06 AM

31. How is that?

Or is it that you believe it's true because you said it is?

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #31)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 11:21 AM

33. The vast majority of Venezuelan oil is heavy sour

 

Thicker than molasses and full of impurities that need to be refined out. The only thing more troublesome to lift is tar sand.

The US and Canada have plenty of shitty oil. They don't need Venezuela's shitty oil. Going into Venezuela for oil is illogical.

Or do you know something about lift costs associated with Venezuela oil that the rest of the world doesn't?

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #33)

Sat Feb 10, 2018, 02:32 PM

84. Oil is oil. All oil is processed. Most light crude already tapped out.

Ven can sell oil for decades...that is truth. Not propaganda.

Just ask owners of Alberta TAR Sands!

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Feb 2, 2018, 02:26 AM

5. Glad he can joke about it

There are 60,000 people there who need kidney dialysis and, apparently, there are NO filters anywhere in the country.

People are killing zoo animals for food.

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Response to lapfog_1 (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 2, 2018, 06:04 AM

7. It is amazing

 

that people on DU like to defend the indefensible, which is the Maduro regime.

Venezuela is a very rich country but all the wealth is being robbed by the people on the regime, Maduro and Cabello are narco traffickers, they are worth billions of dollars and all have been stolen from the country and through drug traffic, they have killed thousands of innocent people, many of them students, they torture and for those of you who were outraged by what GW did in Guantanamo, you haven't seen anything, the Maduro regime torture is as sick as one can imagine.

There is no food, no medicines, no freedom, they have armed criminals to protect the regime (Colectivos), you see them all over the place in twos on motorcycles, robbing and killing innocent people in plain daylight.

lapfog_1 is correct, what are you making jokes about? Please inform yourselves, and read about it because the methods employed in Venezuela are the same the man-child and republicans are doing here in the USA, the difference is the Venezuelan regime got in bed with Cuba, but the republicans are in bed with Russia.

Read, learn before you make jokes or defend a regime that merits no defense unless you are a chavista and part of the problem then, of course, you will defend your vile crooked ways.

Take a trip to "El Doral" in Miami and you will find plenty of Venezuelan Chavistas in big houses, driving expensive cars and not one cent made through honest work, its all stolen but because they stole enough they can flee the situation in Venezuela.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #7)

Fri Feb 2, 2018, 11:58 AM

13. You are not looking at the disease...and if you

Look closely, we have a very similar situation here in USA...

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Response to pbmus (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 2, 2018, 03:01 PM

17. The situation in the United States is nowhere near the situation in Venezuela

 

While a very few people eat out of dumpsters in the United States, vast swaths of the population do so out of necessity in Venezuela. Routinely. Maduro's own military has taken to resorting to this. They are being promised all sorts of "benefits" (smoke and mirrors)... but not food to ACTUALLY eat. Promises mean nothing in Venezuela. People are dying because the Chavista regime is only concerned about keeping power. Maduro REFUSES to admit there is a humanitarian emergency, because that would open the door to external interventions... something the Chavistas cannot abide. Maduro and his puppet-masters (Cuba) will NOT allow Chavismo to lose face.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 02:35 AM

21. Maduro's Brown Shirts and Bolivarian National Police

 





"Chavista justice"

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Feb 2, 2018, 06:24 AM

8. The VZ military is likely the last hope of the country. Otherwise the pop will continue to flee.

 

Leaving a shell of a country where only the poorest remain, with little to nothing.
The revolution is a failure, as it was destined to be from the beginning.

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Response to 7962 (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 2, 2018, 08:53 AM

11. The VZ military has, with the help of Cuban 'advisers' been riddled

with Chavez/Maduro sympathizers. It's possible that they might still step in but their loyalties have been bought and paid for during the years of Chavez/Maduro's kleptocracy.

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Response to COLGATE4 (Reply #11)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 07:58 AM

23. Well, that figures I guess. I really don't know whats next. Famine? nt

 

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Response to 7962 (Reply #23)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 08:01 AM

25. i think they're already in the famine stage. When you have

crowds wading into the ocean to intercept fishermen coming home with a catch of sardines so they can loot the ship before it reaches land, it's a pretty good indication of a condition very like 'famine'.

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Response to COLGATE4 (Reply #25)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 08:05 AM

26. Wow, didnt know it had sunk to that level.

 

Its really looking like an assassin will be the end result. But then is there another Maduro who would step in and nothing change?

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Response to 7962 (Reply #26)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 10:04 AM

27. There are several. My money (in the event that this were to

happen) would be God-given Hair (Diosdado Cabello). Every bit as venal as Maduro but a lot smarter.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Feb 2, 2018, 08:08 AM

9. I was just thinking how quiet it seemed to be, in the media, about Latin America.

Thank goodness the dRump admin is attempting to ramrod a coup through, just what was needed.

If we can destabilize that oil producing nation, whose production only kicks into viability when Standard Oil OPEC prices get high, Rex's buddies can really rape us at the pumps.

Price of gas just took a big jump, already, before this coup thing appeared.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 4, 2018, 03:00 PM

54. No one needs to destabilize Venz., they have done that just fine on their own.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Feb 2, 2018, 08:43 AM

10. That's Venezuela's only hope. But can we believe anything Tillerson says?

His statement might be a signal to the military that the US would back a coup.

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Response to Nitram (Reply #10)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 04:44 AM

22. So Maduro turned out to be corrupt?

Sounds like here.. only we knew it before trump was rigged in?

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Response to Cha (Reply #22)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 04:16 PM

42. Chavez was corrupt. He picked Maduro, so what would you expect?

 

Their corruption & socialist fantasy has ruined the country

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Feb 2, 2018, 12:11 PM

14. If it happens, it'll be like I predicted.

The corruption and brutality of Maduro and his goons will lead to a far-right coup.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Feb 2, 2018, 02:55 PM

16. we already tried this trick on Chavez. Most of the military AND people backed Chavez

and undid it.

Chavez was far too kind and let most of those behind the coup go.

If someone plotted to overthrow the US government and temporarily succeeded, we would rightly expect at minimum to see them in prison for the rest of their lives.

But Chavez did not do that.

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Response to yurbud (Reply #16)

Fri Feb 2, 2018, 03:03 PM

18. Unfortunately for Venezuela....

 

Venezuela was too kind to Chavez when he pulled the same stunt in 1992.

Bot don't let the facts (or hyperbole) get in your way.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #18)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 07:59 AM

24. Thank you. Odd how different HALF a story can sound!

 

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Response to yurbud (Reply #16)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 10:42 AM

30. Things have changed a great deal since Chavez departed the scene.

The country is in a state of emergency.

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Response to Nitram (Reply #30)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 01:41 PM

35. because of the collapse of the price of oil. I suppose common folks wouldn't have noticed

if all the wealth had been funneled to the 1% as it had before, and they were left as dirt poor regardless of the windfall or lack thereof their country got.

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Response to yurbud (Reply #35)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 06:32 PM

47. Maduro and the Chavistas are the 1%. Chavez' daughter Maria is worth over $4 billion.

 

And she was a low level UN bureaucrat for Venezuela during her dads years as president.

Where are you getting your information on Venezuela?

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #47)

Tue Feb 6, 2018, 12:28 PM

70. Maduro was a bus driver then a union leader oddly, I had to get through a lot of right wing sources

before I found a semi-mainstream one that mentioned her net worth.

But I guess that makes sense when we're pursuing a neoliberal/neocon foreign policy there.

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Response to Nitram (Reply #30)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 04:21 PM

44. It was well on its way before Chavez died. This would have resulted if he'd lived.

 

Because the same failed policies were continued. As well as the theft of foreign assets. Chavez started the fraud of not paying for goods and services from foreign countries. Thats the beginning of the downfall. Maduro merely continued the fantasy of "revolution".
Meanwhile, he and his cronies steal the money.

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Response to yurbud (Reply #16)

Wed Feb 7, 2018, 11:30 AM

72. Maduro had his own successful coup in 2017.

After he lost control of the Parliament in the last elections he had hand picked Supreme Court rule the Parliament illegal, he then forced a July 30 2017 vote (rigged by the government) to select 545 Maduro supporters for a Constituent Assembly that will “legally” revise the constitution and make Maduro a legal dictator. He then set the date for presidential elections (April 30th) and had the Supreme Court (full of Maduro loyalists) ban any of the major candidates or their political parties from participating.

Wow, what a great stand up guy some of you are supporting!

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Feb 2, 2018, 04:21 PM

19. The military is fully infiltrated over the last 18 years with Cuban advisers and sympathizers

 

Last edited Sat Feb 3, 2018, 04:02 AM - Edit history (1)

Over 4000 generals (who are highly paid with oil money... which now the military controls entirely) who are loyal to the paradigm that keeps them in the loot. You won't find them too keen on overturning the gravy train. If there is even a whiff of a coup, Maduro will know about it very quickly and it will be put down very efficiently. He has surrounded himself and the rest of the Chavista hierarchy with a praetorian guard.

While the troops are barely fed and their uniforms hang on them due to borderline starvation, groups* specifically loyal to The Revolucion are well paid and well fed, in addition to well armed. (see well fed paramilitary colectivo pallbearers below)




*PNB (Bolivarian National Police), GNB (Bolivarian National Guard), SEBIN (Bolivarian Intelligence Service), and Chavismo's version of Hitlers Brown Shirts, the colectivos. You will kindly notice that the word VENEZUELA does not occur in their titles, as they do not serve Venezuela. They serve... the Revolucion.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #19)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 01:42 PM

36. and troops that support the oligarchs are motivated by what?

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Response to yurbud (Reply #36)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 06:28 PM

46. A primer on Venezuela

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=S1gUR8wM5vA

Here you will discover what motivates the Chavista military. At about 4:30.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 10:19 AM

28. Sounds like Rex is fomenting a coup.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 10:26 AM

29. Maduro doesn't need to worry,

 

he should ask Allende. Woops

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 11:10 AM

32. Yup...

and with the help of erik prince....

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 11:30 AM

34. Tillerson knows nothing about the Venezuean military

 

Over the last 18+ years, the professional soldiers have been purged and replaced with infiltrators from Cuba, and Chavista loyalists hold rank in every officer class above lieutenant. There is ZERO chance that if a military coup occurred, things would turn towards the better. New jefe of the old order. Vlad Padrino is as much Chavista as Maduro. They still would be taking orders from Cuba.

Look for more despair in the coming weeks. Until Maduro loses control of his well fed GNB/PNB, the masses are rising up, and colectivo starts fighting colectivo in the streets for scraps of food, don't expect any meaningful change.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #34)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 01:42 PM

37. so...we don't like oligarchs in Russia, but we should like them in Venezuela?

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Response to yurbud (Reply #37)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 02:10 PM

38. The current oligarchs in Venz. are Maduro and his cronies.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #38)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 02:28 PM

39. not quite

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Response to yurbud (Reply #39)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 02:35 PM

40. Yes, quite.

The top government officials have enriched them selves with all kinds of perks and special currency rates while the rest of the country has gone broke and hungry.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #40)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 02:53 PM

41. Nuh uh. Fraid not.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #41)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 04:17 PM

43. Oh, ok. And why is he wrong?

 

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Response to 7962 (Reply #43)

Sun Feb 4, 2018, 09:48 AM

49. Because he's attempting to spin our heads, by backing the people who always back oligarchs,

in their open attempt to promote a coup.

I always find it hard to work up a good hate against world leaders that our Standard Oil & OPEC nazis (and right wing intel old hands) are telling me are 'bad guys'.

Fuck Tillerson, Standard Oil, OPEC, dRump, and those nazi latin american desk old hands in our intel.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #49)

Mon Feb 5, 2018, 02:08 PM

68. Anybody who thinks Maduro and the Chavistas are the "good guys"..

....knows almost nothing about current events in Venz.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #41)

Sat Feb 3, 2018, 06:23 PM

45. OK... I'll bite. Who are the oligarchs in Venezuela these days?

 

It has been 18+ years since anyone but Chavez/Maduro has had any power. The country is bankrupt and sinking into an abyss.

Who is culpable?

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #45)

Sun Feb 4, 2018, 09:42 AM

48. You got my assessment, in post 9, which you breezed on by, GG.

I noticed you posted umpteen times all over this thread, but you missed that one, waaay at the beginning.

Let me make this simple. I don't respect your interpretation of history, geopolitical reality, or social forces on the ground in Venezuela. I don't like it, don't agree with it, and find it suspiciously close to that of the people who I pegged as culpable in my post 9.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #48)

Sun Feb 4, 2018, 12:46 PM

50. But your "assessment" is laughable. You skip over the reasons for oil being higher.

 

The high prices won't last, by the way, so your theories fall apart as well. Most of the world economies are improving, and with that higher oil usage. Inventories have dropped, as well as production. With an increase in prices, alternative oil sources become profitable once again. That results in a stabilizing of prices, before another increase in supply brings a price drop. Its very simple.
How you can say the media has been "quiet' about the fiasco in VZ is also off the mark. There are stories every week about the desperation there.
The fact is that the party in power has been there nearly 2 decades. In that time, the nation has become a cesspool. the blame is on those in charge, not some spooky conspiracy involving Trump, Obama & Bush.
The "revolution" is a failure, as it was destined to be from the start. Just like it ALWAYS fails and has failed in every other country that tries this fraud.
Next theory, please.

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Response to 7962 (Reply #50)

Sun Feb 4, 2018, 03:14 PM

55. Your 'assessment' of my assessment isn't laughable, it's pitiful.

It's all a matter of perspective, I suppose, and yours is way over there, on the far right.

You mean nothing to me, Mr. 7962, so laugh away. And you dismissing my theory, from on high your lofty authoritative perch, means as much to me as the rest of your balderdash.

Stick your macroeconomic 'expertise' back up from where it came. Ditto for your strawman where I blamed Prez O for anything.

Very sincerely,
Mc Mike

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #55)

Sun Feb 4, 2018, 09:39 PM

60. Your "assessment" isn't based on anything close to factual.

 

Not one thing relating to your assessment is valid. It isn't logical, nor reasonable.

There will be no military coup, because it would be only a different head of the same viper. No changes with Maduro gone. Delcy, Diosdado, Jorge, Aristóbulo and Vlad all remain as committed Chavistas. The entire military has been infiltrated by Cubans, and the military already controls PdVSA. Maduro is nothing but a figurehead, and will likely be the patsy should Chavismo fall.

There is no desire for Venezuelan crude, because their crude is shitty. Its full of sulfur and the lift costs are outrageous. Venezuela cannot lift it on their own, and it cannot refine it. Curiously, Bolivia has embraced Socialism and has oil... yet they seem to be doing a heck of a lot better than the corrupt Maduro regime. Why the dichotomy?

I sense a Useful Idiot. The Latin America forum has more than a few, who excuse any malfeasance by Chavismo as acceptable, even if millions flee or die, because ANY PRICE isn't too high for a Marxist revolution.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #55)

Mon Feb 5, 2018, 05:49 AM

64. Of course I "mean nothing to you". Neither do the people of VZ apparently.

 

As for your silly "straw man" nonsense, the actions going on now are little different from what was happening under Obama or bush, so yes, you WERE pointing a finger at him too

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #48)

Sun Feb 4, 2018, 09:29 PM

59. Your analysis is waaaay off... but lets examine it.

 

Thank goodness the dRump admin is attempting to ramrod a coup through, just what was needed.

There will be no military coup, as I mentioned, because replacing Maduro with Vlad Padrino is replacing one Chavista with another. Tillerson (and Trump) are morons who know NOTHING about what is going on in Venezuela. But, it appears these uninformed morons are in good company... let us continue with your next point!

If we can destabilize that oil producing nation, whose production only kicks into viability when Standard Oil OPEC prices get high, Rex's buddies can really rape us at the pumps.

It is already destabilized, and it didn't need a bit of help from the United States. The shitstorm in VZ started years ago, long before oil prices dumped and any sanctions on Chavistas were imposed. The sanctions on Venezuela are against 40 Chavistas, and the only other sanction is the prohibition of US citizens to refinance PdVSA debt. PdVSA sells to its affiliate Citgo in Houston, which is unaffected currently. Your analysis is wrong again. But even if it were partially correct, the US is already flush with more heavy oil than it needs. We don't need to import Maduro's sludge.

Price of gas just took a big jump, already, before this coup thing appeared.

The price of gas? Funny you should mention that! Seems Venezuela, despite sitting on the worlds largest reserves of oil, cannot lift its own shitty oil (heavy sour) and cannot refine it if it could. Lift costs of light sweet run about $37 per barrel. It costs about $60 per barrel to lift heavy sour, and it STILL can't be pumped without diluants that it has to import. Venezuela essentially imports in own gas, which it sells at a loss. It essentially loses money on every barrel it lifts and refines.

Where are you getting your information on Venezuela? it certainly isn't grounded in fact, and it appears to be based in hyperbole.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #59)

Mon Feb 5, 2018, 05:51 AM

65. Now THIS is an analysis based on FACTS. Thank you. nt

 

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Response to 7962 (Reply #65)

Wed Feb 7, 2018, 01:46 PM

75. That's often what we say when we read an editorial that validates our biases.

 

That's often what we say when we read an editorial, lacking any objective evidence that validates our biases.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #75)

Wed Feb 7, 2018, 03:19 PM

77. Its what I say when I read FACTS. Do you dispute them? Then provide contrary evidence. You wont.

 

He provided an intelligent response. Something others could learn!

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #75)

Thu Feb 8, 2018, 06:43 PM

81. Lantern, please don't interrupt the Latin American political experts.

They're offering a wealth of information on economics, geopolitics, oil scarcity and energy policy, Latin American history, political economy, social movements, US covert interventionalist foreign policy, current events, etc. It is a real privilege for this political discussion board to hear their learned views.

Unless it's just one guy, who sometimes forgets who he's logged in as. In which case, this post should be read as:

Reply title: Lantern, please don't interrupt the Latin American political expert.

Message text: He's (?) offering a wealth of information blah blah blah ... blah blah his learned views.


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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #81)

Thu Feb 8, 2018, 11:08 PM

82. I guess if I couldn't refute anyone's post & info I might post that too..

Last edited Fri Feb 9, 2018, 02:47 PM - Edit history (1)

....but probably not.
(responding to post#81 by McMike)

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #41)

Wed Feb 7, 2018, 05:38 PM

80. If that is your idea of a well thought out rebuttal I would ask your schools for a refund.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #34)

Wed Feb 7, 2018, 01:45 PM

74. I especially liked how you supported your premise with objective evidence

 

I especially liked how you supported your premise with objective evidence and cited peer-reveiwed sources to validate your conclusion.

Oh, wait... that was someone else entirely.
You simply made allegations.
Again.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #74)

Wed Feb 7, 2018, 01:51 PM

76. Anyone familiar with with current events in Venz knows that.

Venz & Cuba have been in bed for a long time now.
The Maduro government has set the date for presidential elections (April 30th) and had the Supreme Court (full of Maduro loyalists) banned any of the major candidates or their political parties from participating.
Welcome to the one Party State! Food optional.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #76)

Wed Feb 7, 2018, 03:23 PM

78. Some would do well to read up on a topic, wouldn't they?

 

But then some just like to denigrate others without providing useful information.
I love how opposition parties are banned, THEN schedule elections! Which im sure will be touted as "free & open"

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #74)

Wed Feb 7, 2018, 05:03 PM

79. Here:

From military advisers to aid workers, thousands of Cubans form an information network across Venezuela's economy.
Defence specialist Rocío San Miguel believes Cuba really does influence policymakers in Venezuela. She recalls the way Chávez's illness was managed, his hospitalisation in Havana clothed in secrecy, and the transfer of power to Nicolás Maduro (pictured), who was educated in Cuba. "Cuban officers attend strategic planning meetings for the armed forces," she says, basing her claim on insider sources.
"It's not a myth, it's the reality," says General Raúl Baduel, minister of defence under Chávez and now in custody at the Ramo Verde military prison. The Cubans have modernised the intelligence services, both the Sebin (Bolivarian National Intelligence Service) that reports directly to the president, and military intelligence. They also set up a special unit to protect the head of state.
Furthermore Cubans have computerised Venezuela's public records, giving them control over the issue of identity papers and voter registration. They have representatives in the ports and airports, as well as supervising foreign nationals. They took part in purchases of military equipment and work on the Maracaibo airbase.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/27/cuba-expats-maduro-caracas-venezuela-protests

Venezuelan strongman Nicolás Maduro is responding to mass demonstrations by selectively killing civilians. If, as a result, some branch of the military breaks with the regime, the country will descend into civil war. But until then it’s a one-sided slaughter.
It’s also a Cuban proxy war. More than a dozen high-ranking Cuban officers are said to be in Venezuela, along with thousands of Cuban intelligence agents. Their job is to keep Venezuelan army officers under constant surveillance to prevent the feared military uprising to restore democracy. If the international community wants to head off disaster, a good place to start would be in Havana.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/cubas-proxy-war-in-venezuela-1495403403

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Sun Feb 4, 2018, 01:36 PM

51. If we had a real State Department, the secretary would be working with

Venezuela, its neighboring states, and the other latin american countries to shore up Venezuela. Letting Venezuela collapse will affect every other country in the region and pose a threat to our own national security. By staying on the sidelines and lobbing spitballs at Maduro, Trump is once again abdicating our authority as a world leader and creating a power vacuum that China, Cuba or Russia will be happy to fill.

Letting our enemies establish an unchecked beachhead for influence in South America, on our back door, is not in anyone's best interest.

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Response to procon (Reply #51)

Sun Feb 4, 2018, 01:39 PM

52. That is called diplomacy...not in the Big Con playbook

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Response to pbmus (Reply #52)

Sun Feb 4, 2018, 03:18 PM

56. You really brought them out of the wood work, with this o.p.

Already recced, just feel it's worth mentioning.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #56)

Sun Feb 4, 2018, 03:26 PM

57. Thanks...our diplomacy is very important

And as we already know, every American institution is being degraded under this criminal President

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Response to pbmus (Reply #57)

Sun Feb 4, 2018, 03:28 PM

58. Agreed, keep up the fight, pb. nt.

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Response to procon (Reply #51)

Sun Feb 4, 2018, 02:58 PM

53. "shoring up" a economy that is set up to fail is a losing proposition

Last edited Sun Feb 4, 2018, 08:25 PM - Edit history (2)

Unless Venz does away with the insane currency controls (1 low rate for govt officials, 1 med rate for some vendors, and and high rate for everybody else...that's if you can get dollars) and gets rid of the price controls which during hyperinflation (caused by the govt over printing money) insures the shelves will be empty because selling under costs does not work for long, fires the govt toadies running the oil industry into the ground and rehires experienced oil workers, stops seizing foreign property and assets so there is foreign investment again, stops the govt money giveaway to buy votes and puts the money in the failing oil industry and infrastructure, stops jailing opposition politicians and bypassing the elected parliament so there is democracy again,
anything done will just be a band-aid on a mortal wound.

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Response to procon (Reply #51)

Sun Feb 4, 2018, 09:51 PM

61. There is no shoring up Venezuela

 

It is a kleptocracy, and that's the way that the Chavistas like it.

They will do anything to hold onto power. To quote the Game of Thrones, "He would see this country burn if he could be king of the ashes."

Millions flee. A huge brain drain. Do the Chavistas care? NO! They say, "Good riddance! Who needs doctors, teachers, nurses, and engineers anyway!"

Thousands are dying. Malaria, diphtheria, typhus... disease that most countries rarely have more than a few cases each year. Children dying of malnutrition. No insulin. No antibiotics. No ASPIRIN? Women giving birth on filthy floors... or donkey carts. God forbid, you look at what has happened to mental health facilities in Venezuela. IT IS SICKENING. But Chavismo says, "No! This is all propaganda! Led by the CIA and Colombia, who is jealous of Maduro's dancing prowess!"

Cuba has been in Venezuela since 1999. Venezuela is huge in debt to China (who is now cutting its losses) and Russia (who won't lend another ruble) There is no beach head. Even Nicaragua has had enough. Outside of Bolivia, Maduro's only friends are Iran and Syria. There is ZERO threat to our national security.

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Response to procon (Reply #51)

Tue Feb 6, 2018, 12:29 PM

71. Venezuela is too socialists for our 1%'s taste, so they must suffer

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Response to yurbud (Reply #71)

Wed Feb 7, 2018, 11:45 AM

73. The Venz. govt has ruined their economy so the people of Venz. are suffering.

Since Hugo Chavez gained power in 1999 Venezuela, once the wealthiest country in the region has become one of the poorest. Only twenty percent of the population are able to obtain adequate food and other commodities. The currency is worthless, most commercial enterprises have been driven out of business or simply shut down by the government. In GDP terms the economy is about half what it was in 2013.
If that what Socialism is you can keep it.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Sun Feb 4, 2018, 10:46 PM

62. If I remember correctly

Venezuela does not even have the money coming in from CITGO. They used CITGO as collateral on a cash loan from Russia, and last year they defaulted on the loan.

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Response to oneshooter (Reply #62)

Sun Feb 4, 2018, 11:08 PM

63. 60% of the oil they lift goes to Russia and China for debt payments to those countries for services

 

previously rendered. Venezuela gets no cash for these transfers.

The remainder previously was used to pay off the $60 billion in debt owed to its creditors. They made their interest payments up until last October on time, but recently have not been paying. Standard and Poors, and Fitch have put Venezuela into default, and its only a matter of time before creditors start seizing ships and facilities.

Yes, Citgo was put up as collateral. Soon, they will have no place to refine their heavy sour oil. Not many places can do it, and Amuay is in shambles right now. They have explosions there once a month due to no maintenance and crumbling infrastructure. They haven't paid their workers (PdVSA) in months. Most ships are barred from international ports, as their hulls are so contaminated with oil that they are not allowed to dock. Several ships with Venezuelan crude were recently seized by creditors.


What Venezuela has... only thicker and with more impurities. Hard to pump.

There is no need for a coup initiated by the United States. Chavismo is doing it all on their own.

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