Oklahoma teachers to lawmakers: Raise pay by April 1 or we shut schools

[Eugene]

Source: Reuters

(Reuters) - The largest union for teachers in Oklahoma gave lawmakers in the cash-strapped state an April 1 deadline to approve pay raises for some of the lowest-paid educators in the country or face a shutdown of public schools, its president said on Wednesday.

The move came a day after teachers in West Virginia ended a nine-day strike that closed schools statewide, with officials approving a 5 percent pay raise for all state workers.

Alicia Priest, president of the Oklahoma Education Association, said the union was putting Oklahoma lawmakers on notice that they needed to pass an education budget by April 1 that contained significant pay hikes.

“If that budget doesn’t include a meaningful pay raise for teachers and support professionals, and additional funding to restore cuts to Oklahoma classrooms, OEA calls for statewide school closures beginning April 2,” she said in a message posted on the union’s Facebook page.

-snip-

U.S. MARCH 7, 2018 / 4:54 PM / UPDATED 2 HOURS AGO
Jon Herskovitz
3 MIN READ


Read more: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-oklahoma-education/oklahoma-teachers-to-lawmakers-raise-pay-by-april-1-or-we-shut-schools-idUSKCN1GJ35S

[avebury]

1. First of all, the existing education budget is not

being utilized in the most effective manner. Oklahoma has far too many school districts and spend way too much money on administrative expenses. The result is to few dollars going to teachers and/or their classrooms. A while back I pulled information off of the OK Dept. of Education website and while I don't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head, the overwhelmingly majority of school districts from areas with a population of less then 500 people and include districts with way less then 500 people.

Oklahoma needs to look at school consolidation in areas where there population is low. But people act like that is an evil incarnate idea. But what they fail to see is that larger school districts are able to provide a lot more academic opportunities then teeney tiny schools.

As an aside, as a State Employee who hasn't seen a raise in over 5 years and is hardly likely to see one in any time in the future I find it hard to sympathize with the teachers. You could literally give education 100% of the state budget and they would still complain that they didn't get enough money. Teacher pay is a very sore subject with a lot of state employees.

I corrected my post because I should have been talking about town population size not student numbers.

[dhol82]

4. Interesting to hear another version of the problem. n/t

[avebury]

7. Then you have to look at the retirement funds.

There are two retirement funds: 1) State Employees (+Legislators who are included in our fund) and 2) Teachers. The Teachers tend to draw higher retirement checks then State Employees. As a result the State Employee fund tends to be healthier because the Teachers are draining theirs at a faster rate. Once in a while the State Legislature will consider consolidating the two funds (which causes State Employees to think HELL NO!!!!! KEEP THEM OUT OF OUR FUND). It never happens, most likely because if it ended up damaging the State Employee side it would also hurt the Legislator's retirement.

[dhol82]

8. Interesting

Not being involved in any of this, I don’t ever think about it.
Good to know.

[peaverok]

13. Not True Again

So my mother is a retired teacher in Oklahoma. She has had ONE cost of living increase in about 15 years. Yet somehow they are just abusing their pension system. Do you mean paying the retired teachers what was promised to them? How about the REPUBLICAN controlled state legislature do their jobs and shore up the pension system by raising taxes on large corporations and the wealthy.

Either way this is supposed to be the DEMOCRATIC underground and you are obviously a REPUBLICAN shill that needs to be removed. This post and the TWO about consolidating districts are so very obviously non-Demoratic that I think your account needs to be banned because you obviously aren't a Democrat.

I mean how dare you say that the teachers drawing their pension retirement checks is "draining" their pension fund. They worked hard and are only getting what they were promised (less in fact since they have gotten virtually no cost of living increases in over a decade). In fact they are actually getting less than what they deserve you REPUBLICAN shill.

[avebury]

16. I am not a Republican but a liberal Democrat. That does not mean q

that I cannot expect that a school or a state agency to use their money wisely. I grew up in a rural state and guess what, we didn't have teachers protesting every year for more money. Consolidated school districts are highly successful and provide rural students the same level of education that you would find in an urban area. Maine also adjusted the funding to that more wealthy areas would help to fund the poor parts of the state. I grew up in a well off suburb of Portland and I can tell you for a fact that our town did not keep all of our own education dollars because some of money when to other parts of the state that needed it. Did anybody complain about it? No. Maine does what it needs to in order to have decent schools. I benefited from a top notch public school. Schools used their budget wisely. Teachers weren't having to use their own money for their classrooms nor was there any public complaints regarding pay during the time I lived there.

And guess what, all Maine has are state taxes, state sales tax, real estate taxes and various excise taxes, licensing fees and so on. Maine does not have anywhere near all the different taxes that we pay in Oklahoma. Not even a single city sales tax. Real estate taxes are higher of course because there are a lot fewer types of taxes. And there is only one turnpike road. Of course with Paul LePage as Governor I am not sure how things are now.

Whether you work in the public sector in state, county or city government or education or you work in the private sector the fact is you get a certain budget and that is the figure that you have to work with. You have to be just as responsible with your employer's and/or taxpayer's money as you are your own. It is called fiduciary responsibility. As a tax payer do you really want your money to be wasted? Wasted money is money that is not being put to good use.

[peaverok]

20. Yep you're a Democrat!

Yeah, sure you're a liberal Democrat. A liberal Democrat talking about "wasteful" spending in a state with the largest education cuts in the country over the past decade.

Yep, a liberal Democrat complaining down below in this post about how the teacher's pension in OKLAHOMA is TOO MUCH even though they have had 1 cost of living increase in a DECADE.

Yep, a liberal Democrat who believes massive education cuts aren't the problem but wasteful spending. If only Oklahoma spent that money wiser, there is plenty to go around in the budget. Nevermind the near billion dollar budget hole we have had for the past several years due to tax cuts!

Go peddle your REPUBLICAN BULLSHIT somewhere else.

I would like to just say you know nothing about education and the state of spending in Oklahoma and to take some time to educate you, but I know you are just a troll. * sigh *

Mods please remove this person from our board.

[marble falls]

32. How in the hell did this not get alerted?

[Yupster]

23. Isn't the pension supposed to pay for itself?

Don't teachers contribute to it each month they work?

[mpcamb]

26. No raise in 5 years and no squawk? Geez, I dunno.

[Scruffy1]

11. It sounds like both of teachers and state employees are getting screwed to me.

In Minnesota the teahcers make about 40% more than in Oklahoma and we don't have a budget problem. Consolidating schools might help some, but I doubt that it would make such a huge difference when you started to add in the cost of transportation in the sparsley populated areas. It seems to me that having a maximum income tax rate of only 5% no matter how much you make part of the problem. However, the strategy of dividing the workers seems to be working well. I don't see the connection between giving the actual classroom worker a raise and the adminstrative problems..

[peaverok]

12. Not True

Sorry, I am a lurker here from Oklahoma and my mother is a retired teacher.

This REPUBLICAN talking point needs to be shut down quickly. It has been going around for years. Administrative costs are not excessively high. It is ALWAYS the go to point of Republicans in this state to shut down arguments about fixing the schools. It is simply not true:

https://www.okedcoalition.org/get-the-facts.html

http://oklahomawatch.org/2014/06/28/is-oklahoma-spending-too-much-on-school-administration/

https://www.ossba.org/advocacy/oklahoma-education-facts/

http://texhoma61.weebly.com/uploads/4/8/4/1/4841343/understanding_administrative_costs_in_oklahoma_schools.pdf

This is the game that they play. They find something that isn't true and convince the public of it. Then when people fight back with facts they make the side with facts look unreasonable. They are doing the same thing with the mass shooting stuff. They have found their issue (the fact that Democrats don't want to arm teachers) and now anytime a mass shooting happens they will say that Democrats won't arm teachers so what are you going to do?

They are doing the same thing here. Democrats won't reduce administrative costs (because they aren't excessive) so what are you going to do? This way they can blame the Democrats for not fixing the schools in Oklahoma.

Either way this post is nothing but a Republican talking point that Democrats in Oklahoma have been fighting for years.

[avebury]

15. You have to look at the math.

The is a huge volume of state employees that get paid a lot less than teachers. Retirement pay is calculated at 2% times the average of your 3 highest earning years * the number of years worked. If your pay is incredibly low, based upon the math, your retirement check will be low. I have know state employees who qualify for food stamps.

As much as teachers don't like their pay they get paid a lot more then a lot of state employees. As a result they will have a hire retirement check because their pay is more then a lot of state employees.

If you look at the payouts from each retirement fund, the fund which pays out larger retirement checks will decrease at a faster rate. Each groups is given the retirement check that they earn under their system. The higher the retirement check, the more money that drains the fund. The state employee fund has been changed so that new employees are not included in our retirement fund but are on the Sooner Save system instead. This forces newer employees to take more of a role in preparing for their retirement but may have a negative impact on our fund at some point in the future.

Any solvency rates that I have seen for each fund has always shown the state employee fund to be the more solvent of the two funds.

The majority of school districts are in towns with populations less than 500. Do you really think that one of these school districts can actually provide the same opportunities that a school district in a larger demographic and tax base? There is no reason that you cannon consolidate administrative costs when it comes to small population areas. Do you think that the State Legislature has allowed small state agencies to handle aspects of their administration? No. There are administrative costs that have been given to OMES because it is more cost effective and the small agencies benefit from the greater experience that a large entity has they they don't. Take purchasing for example, that is a function that has been incorporated at OMES for smaller agencies and a similar function could be done for small school districts to gain the benefit of reduction in purchase price by gaining the benefits of larger purchasing power then they could obtain on their own. Human Resources could be consolidated on a regional basis. Training could be consolidated on a regional basis. There are a lot of administrative areas that could result in reduced costs if handled on a consolidated basis.

Maine is a rural state and there are consolidated school districts which provides far better academic opportunities for the students because there are more students per school. School consolidations can put rural areas on a par with more urban areas. It has worked quite well in Maine.

You might discover that consolidating administrative expenses and school districts in rural areas might actually free up money for teacher pay and funds for the classroom.

[peaverok]

21. Wow what a solution!

So your solution is what?

Since teachers get paid more than some state employees that somehow they don't deserve a raise? Since teachers get paid more than some state employees they don't deserve their PROMISED pension?

Or is this just about you being bitter because you are one of the state employees that get paid even less than a teacher so you are trying to bring them down?

'You might discover that consolidating administrative expenses and school districts in rural areas might actually free up money for teacher pay and funds for the classroom."

And you might discover you are wrong!

I have provided you direct evidence in the links above refuting this. Yet still you peddle it. If we cut administrative costs IN HALF it would save less than 2% of the budget. How would you like to fire every other principal, vice-principal, superintendent, and every other administrative support staff in the state? That's what happens when you cut the administrative budget in half.
Along with reducing the administrative budget for other things that are still necessary. The number of students doesn't shrink you know.

The answer is you would actually probably like that because you are a Republican troll.

Also:

https://www.okedcoalition.org/get-the-facts.html

Oklahoma ranks 43rd nationally on per-student administration spending.
Oklahoma has the highest student-to-administrator ratio in the region.
Oklahoma's student-to-administrator ratio is 42nd the nation.
Oklahoma could hire 300 more administrators and still not reach the national average.
All administration includes superintendents, assistant superintendents, principals and assistant principals.

http://oklahomawatch.org/2014/06/28/is-oklahoma-spending-too-much-on-school-administration/

Gene Perry, policy director for the Oklahoma Policy Institute, a Tulsa-based think tank, said if Oklahoma were to cut its 3.2-percent rate of spending on district oversight to that of Hawaii’s, the lowest in the nation at 0.5 percent, it would have relatively little impact. The savings would amount to $249 per student, or $165 million, a year. If all of the savings went to the classroom, Oklahoma would move up only one spot, to fourth from last, in classroom spending per student.

http://texhoma61.weebly.com/uploads/4/8/4/1/4841343/understanding_administrative_costs_in_oklahoma_schools.pdf

Oklahoma law clearly defines “school administrative costs” and sets caps on
the amount of funds schools can use for administrative positions. Last year
Oklahoma schools spent less than 3.6% ($234 million) on legally
defined administrative costs.

In FY 2013 Oklahoma ranked 47th in the nation on the amount of money used
to support school district administration.

https://okpolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/oklahomas-public-schools-have-relatively-low-administrative-costs.pdf?x43134

However, even under a highly optimistic
estimate, we could not find enough
savings out of district administration
to significantly improve funding for
instruction. Hawaii, which has only one statewide school district, spends the least on district
administration ($31 per student). If we somehow reduced our spending to match that and put
all of the savings into the classroom, we would increase spending on instruction by less than 3
percent ($226 per student). The next highest state in the spending rankings (Mississippi) spends
$4,754 per pupil on instruction. The addition of $226 would bring Oklahoma to $4,664. That’s
not enough to change Oklahoma’s ranking by even one spot, and we would have restored less
than a third of the $706 per pupil that schools have lost since 2008.

Yep sure looks like Oklahoma is top heavy in that administration spending!

[mpcamb]

27. Oklahoma is scaping the bottom on teacher salaries.

https://articles.niche.com/teacher-salaries-in-america/

West Virginia gets higher starting pay!

[Fla Dem]

31. You can make your points effectively without name calling.

Your posts are filled with credible information and you are indeed passionate about this issue, but personal attacks are not acceptable. They take away from your message and may cause your posts to be hidden.

[CreekDog]

28. What percentage of state staff making less than teachers are have the same job requirements?

Same requirements as those required of teachers:

This is what's required to become a public school teacher in Oklahoma:

Now tell us what jobs require these same qualifications but pay less than a teacher would be paid.

Graduated from an accredited institution of higher education that has an approved teacher education program for the certification area sought
Successfully completed a higher education teacher education program approved by the Office of Educational Quality and Accountability (OEQA);
Meets all other requirements as established by the Oklahoma State Board of Education;
Successfully passed the three required competency examinations; and
Has on file with the Oklahoma State Board of Education a current clear Oklahoma criminal history record search from the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation as well as a current clear national criminal history record search from the Federal Bureau of Investigation;
Applied to Teacher Certification and submitted the appropriate processing fee

http://sde.ok.gov/sde/traditional-path-oklahoma-teacher-certification

[GulfCoast66]

17. You have fallen into their trap!

Get one group of fucked over to fight against another fucked over group who might find a way to do better.

So you have not seen a raise in 5 years and seem distressed that the teachers in your state might actually fight to get what the should be paid? Maybe all the state employees in OK should go out. Because that is what happened in WV. The republicans caved not because the teachers were on strike. But because the public supported them and the rest of the state employees were about to join them.

So all public employees got a raise.

[avebury]

19. The problem with handing over the state budget to education

is that it won't be much help when your infrastructure fails, businesses leave and you can't get new companies to come in.

Having grown up in Maine and attending a really good public school system where teachers didn't have to buy supplies for their school rooms and never protested over their salaries and rural consolidated school districts operated on a par with the urban areas it is disgusting to see how really crappy the public Oklahoma school systems are. You have to live in the real world. Your state budget is X which has to cover A, B, C, D, E, F, and so on. Unless you can find a way to increase your revenue with tax increases, or attract new business with your infrastructure, schools and so on, your budget will remain X based upon revenues that come in from various types of sources.

If all you have is X, all you have is X. You need to suck it up and learn to work with X. If you can't deal with X then you have to find a way to get to a number that you can work with. But if you cannot find a way to get past X then you have to suck it up and deal with X.

As much as the teachers (and state workers as well) want more money, if the money is not there it is not there. You cannot get blood out of a stone. And frankly, I think that Republicans would be totally happy to tank public education in favor of for profit schools.

It is called living in a real world. I have witnessed how state government operate for almost 20 years and the chances of things changing in Oklahoma are pretty non existent.

[Tatiana]

2. I like the fact that this is happening in so-called "red states."

This is the type of thing that may cause Republican union members (I know - sounds like an oxymoron) to sit out an election or vote for a non-Republican.

[Aristus]

3. My cousin is a teacher is Oklahoma.

She's a little too conservative for my liking, but she's the sweetest, nicest person in the world. And I think she's starting to consider dating another political party. The repukes are just too damned awful on education issues.

[callous taoboy]

5. May this spread to Texas, where the Tea Party leg. wants us to dry up and blow away.

And one of the biggest tea bagger asshole Reps just won his primary and will likely soundly defeat our Democratic primary winner.

[LeftInTX]

25. Which rep is that?

[callous taoboy]

29. Kyle Biedermann

He is receiving big money from the Empower Texans group.

[LeftInTX]

30. Arghhh!!! He's nasty.....

[SoCalMusicLover]

6. I Predict A Strike On April 2

The lawmakers won't do jack shit until the walkout actually takes place and holds.

repubs usually wait for Shit To Hit Fan, before doing anything, or acting concerned.

[avebury]

9. Every year the teachers have shut down the schools for one day so that they can all

travel to OKC and protest outside the Capitol. I don't know why they don't fight to have the existing budget used a lot more wisely. There is a lot of waste.

There is only so much money in the state budget and education is not the only thing that has to be funded. Until they work on creating consolidated school districts in the vast areas of the states with populations of under 500 (per town), consolidate administrative costs and reallocate more money to teachers and the classrooms I am not interested in increasing the education budget. It would give the Dept. of Education absoutely no incentive to revist their existing budget and make appropriate changes. Instead, money would continue to be wasted.

[Egnever]

14. I predict union busting.

[dlk]

10. Oklahoma is Out of Funds Because they've Given Away too Many Tax Breaks to the Wealthy

If anything, blame the free-lunchers.

[avebury]

18. Not only that but the State Legislature wastes way too much

time passing unconstitutional bills which are then defended by the State AG when the inevitable law suit is filed. Scot Pruitt was involved in his share of cases when he was AG.

It seems like no bill is worth passing unless it is unconstitutional.

[appalachiablue]

22. This new Vox article is on mounting frustration with GOP tax cuts, trickle down promises,

and a growing backlash in Oklahoma and Arizona by teachers and public employees, especially after the success of the WV Teachers Strike. The piece is a bit long, but interesting with many good points and facts. That some people are out of patience is clear...

*The West Virginia Strike May Be Over. But Oklahoma and Arizona Could Be Next*, Vox, March 7, 18.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/3/7/17081826/teacher-strike-west-virginia-oklahoma-arizona

[Yupster]

24. How much is OKlahoma's budget

is reliant on oil?