Trumps Lawyer Raised Prospect of Pardons for Flynn and Manafort as Special Counsel Closed In

[brooklynite]

Source: New York Times

WASHINGTON — A lawyer for President Trump broached the idea of Mr. Trump pardoning two of his former top advisers, Michael T. Flynn and Paul Manafort, with their lawyers last year, according to three people with knowledge of the discussions.

The discussions came as the special counsel was building cases against both men, and they raise questions about whether the lawyer, John Dowd, was offering pardons to influence their decisions about whether to plead guilty and cooperate in the investigation.

The talks suggest that Mr. Trump’s lawyers were concerned about what Mr. Flynn and Mr. Manafort might reveal were they to cut a deal with the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, in exchange for leniency. Mr. Mueller’s team could investigate the prospect that Mr. Dowd made pardon offers to thwart the inquiry, although legal experts are divided about whether such offers might constitute obstruction of justice.

Mr. Dowd’s conversation with Mr. Flynn’s lawyer, Robert K. Kelner, occurred sometime after Mr. Dowd took over last summer as the president’s personal lawyer, at a time when a grand jury was hearing evidence against Mr. Flynn on a range of potential crimes. Mr. Flynn, who served as Mr. Trump’s first national security adviser, agreed in late November to cooperate with the special counsel’s investigation. He pleaded guilty in December to lying to the F.B.I. about his conversations with the Russian ambassador and received favorable sentencing terms.

Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/28/us/politics/trump-pardon-michael-flynn-paul-manafort-john-dowd.html

[OliverQ]

1. Trump is going to try and pardon his way out of this.

And stupidly, the pardon power is nearly absolute.

[flibbitygiblets]

2. Sounds like a Quid Pro Quo for Obstruction of Justice

Also sounds like a "constitutional crisis". Imagine: A sitting president, being investigated, pardons those who refused to testify against him.

Even if all that goes unchallenged (unlikely), it doesn't stop the states from prosecuting.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

5. If he pardons them before proceedings are finished, then they have no 5th and must testify. . nt

[flibbitygiblets]

8. What are the penalties for failing to testify after pardoned? I'm guessing less than whatever they

were originally charged with?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

9. Unlimited. Because the court can keep him in jail until he does testify.

As a practical matter, it may be less and the court may give up and declare the testimony moot at some point.

[grantcart]

12. Wouldn't failure to testify after pardoned open up a completely new obstruction of justice

liability and require yet another pardon? lol

[George II]

3. Not sure about Flynn, but Manafort can/will be subject to NYS charges, not pardonable.

[Dave Starsky]

14. And accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt.

So he would be hosed at the state level.

[brooklynite]

4. I hear that "coffee boy" George Papadopoulos spilled some on Trump and said "pardon me...".

[Gothmog]

6. It is too late to pardon Flynn

As part of his plea deal, Flynn has been interviewed and have given the Mueller team every fact that he has on trump. If pardoned, Flynn would still have to testify and the facts given in the interviews would be used if Flynn is not cooperative

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. Sounds like another attempt at obstruction of justice.

"If you promise not to tell Mueller what I did, I'll pardon you later. If you do tell him what I did, I won't pardon you and you'll go to prison."

[grantcart]

10. Dowd is going to need an attorney lol

[Wellstone ruled]

11. After Yesterday's Mueller Filings,

and what we can glean from it. We have two key Person's facing Treason Charges. If the Republicans and Trump think they can Pardon their way out of that,their Party will be DOA.

The last time I recall Treason being charged was the Rosenberg's. Others have been charged with giving info to a Hostile Power but never Treason.

[Cosmocat]

16. Wait

I missed these filings, can you link them?

[Wellstone ruled]

17. As per msnbc and huff post web page.

If you have the time,there are some thirty pages of filings,principally focused on Gates,you will notice the connection to Manafort.

[Botany]

13. Too late now

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210424464

Flynn has pleaded guilty and Manafort's #1 man, Gates is singing like a bird.

[Gothmog]

15. Boom

Link to tweet

[dreamland]

18. Can you pardon treason?

To pardon them means they are guilty. You can't pardon someone who is not guilty. Can treason be pardon?