Neighbors express concern about home situation of children who died in California crash

[LovingA2andMI]

Last edited Thu Mar 29, 2018, 04:25 AM - Edit history (1)

Source: KGW 8 News

WOODLAND, Wash. — Neighbors called Child Protective Services to visit the Woodland home where two married women who died in a California crash lived with their six adopted children.

The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services confirmed to KGW that Child Protective Services opened an investigation on March 23, which identified the children as "potential victims of alleged abuse or neglect."

CPS tried to make contact with the family on three separate occasions in the past week, but were unable to reach them.

Three of the children who lived in the home died in Monday's crash when the SUV driven by Jennifer Hart navigated onto a dirt turnout on Highway 1 in California and then didn't stop, falling over the cliff and plunging about 100 feet. Jennifer and Sarah Hart, who were in the front seats, both died.

Three children, 19-year-old Markis Hart, 14-year-old Jeremiah Hart and 14-year-old Abigail Hart, were found dead after the crash.

An ocean search effort is underway for the couple's other three children, 12-year-old Sierra Hart, 16-year-old Hannah Hart and 15-year-old Devonte Hart. Mendocino County Sheriff Tom Allman said Wednesday afternoon that investigators "have every indication to believe" that all six children were in the SUV during the crash.

The cause of the crash remains under investigation.

This past Friday, neighbors say they called child services, who responded to the home. The Clark County Sheriff's Office confirmed the visit happened because of reports that the children weren't being fed. A few hours after the visit, neighbors said the family took off.

Neighbors told KGW that one of the children, Devonte, made a daily habit of sneaking next door to ask for food, often multiple times per day. The neighbor said Devonte said his mothers didn't feed them, withholding food as punishment, and that they weren't allowed to go outside.

The six adopted kids were all homeschooled.

Read more: http://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/washington/neighbors-express-concern-about-home-situation-of-children-who-died-in-california-crash/283-532961241

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If The Initial Details on WHAT MIGHT HAVE Caused The Death of Devonte Hart and His Siblings are true... #LordHelpUs.

Who Was Devonte Hart -- The Young African-American Boy Who After Standing Right After FERGUSON with the #FREEHUGS Sign, Greeted a Police Officer and Offered Him A Hug.

#SAYHISNAME - DEVONTE HART!!

[LovingA2andMI]

1. The Neighbors CONFIRMED It Was Devonte Asking For FOOD...

Link to tweet

[JI7]

8. how sad, they did the right thing and now they feel guilt . the thing is if they did nothing

even that would have resulted in something bad.

[LovingA2andMI]

2. There's More Information...

However, it's likely too much for DU and will not post the direct link here -- However, a report from 2014 questions why Devonte was crying BEFORE taking the photo and why one of his Guardians/Parents came prepared with a camera...

[woundedkarma]

3. You don't know, I don't know.

My daughter goes to a neighbors house and begs for popsicles all the time. She begs for food at her friend's house. Not because we don't feed her, but because we don't have the kinds of junk food other people have.

We've had cps calls, always unfounded.

And homeschooling kids, when you don't know whether your child's school will be the next horrible massacre seems like the smart way to do things if you have the choice.

Look at the pictures. They looked awfully d*** happy.

This is a horrible tragedy. These people will be forgotten by almost everyone in a day or two. Don't drag them through the mud when you just don't know.

[LovingA2andMI]

4. Not Buying This Was A "Horrible Tragedy"

With a 2011 Abuse Report for the then Six-Year-Old Daughter. It's Linked (As In The Report) above with the KGW Article.

Also, there were no skid marks and the car was seen by a passerby on the cliff area (not on the road --- the cliff) before going off the cliff - 75-100 Feet below.

These people will be forgotten by almost everyone in a day or two.

-- Just don't know what to say about this.

[JI7]

9. the kids in that fucked up Turpin Family looked Happy in the Pics they had also. pics like that

don't tell the whole story.

[LovingA2andMI]

25. Exactly...

Thank You.

[alphafemale]

5. If you want to exit the world in drama like Thelma and Louise...your choice.

Let the screaming kids out of the car first. OK?

[LovingA2andMI]

6. Thank You...

IF this was intentional... There would be literally, NO WORDS.

[alphafemale]

32. I'm pretty sure it was intentional

None of them had on seat belts.

Not that a crash like that would be survivable anyway.

But without seat belts that road would have the kids sliding back and forth into each other on the seats.

[JI7]

7. if this is true it puts another light on the pic of him hugging the cop

he was looking for someone to save him.

[SunSeeker]

10. Another child abuse disaster enabled by homeschooling.

Who lets anyone adopt 6 kids and keep them out of school?

[Lonestarblue]

11. I am not in favor of most home schooling.

I confess to being a public school advocate but readily agree that there are reasons to home school, such as an illness like an autoimmune disorder that prevents children from being in public or super athletes who need to accommodate training schedules or just gifted children who need to advance at a faster pace than the public schools. Parents who refuse to innoculate their children against childhood diseases should be required to home school because their children are a danger to children in school. Parents already have the option to enroll their children in private schools if they do not like the public schools though some cannot afford it. Home schooling for religious and other reasons should only be allowed if there is strict oversight by local school authorities with reviews of the curriculum being taught and tests that every other student takes. We have a public interest in what homeschooled children are being taught if they are being homeschooled to hide abuse or to hide anti-government teachings. We need to get behind public education and support it as the path to accomplishment and economic security for kids from all backgrounds.

[MichMary]

14. If homeschooling is going to be allowed

for some reasons, it must be allowed for all reasons. To discriminate on the basis of religion is wrong, and probably unconstitutional.

I'm amazed that in the age of Trump you think " anti-government teachings " should be a reason to prohibit homeschooling.

[MichMary]

13. Most abused children

sit in public school classrooms.

Homeschooling has nothing to do with this.

[SunSeeker]

18. Homeschooling allows concealment of abuse.

Outside of medical necessity or unavailability of public schools, I think homeschooling is itself child abuse. It amounts to social isolation and instruction by a non-educator parent. But it also allows more lethal types of abuse, most commonly food deprivation. It certainly keeps abused children away from prying eyes, thus enabling the abuse.

As one researcher recently noted:

I had a reporter ask me earlier this morning if I was surprised by [the California] case. My answer was no, not in the least. The case fits themes that we've seen over time, many other cases that we've seen just like it: food deprivation, imprisonment.

It's really hard to starve your children to death if they're in school. Somebody is going to see something. Somebody is going to say something. A teacher is going to notice that the kid is always hungry and at the very least they are going to feed the child.

Also:

A researcher at the University of Wisconsin, Barbara Knox, looked at cases that were so severe she called them child torture. And she found that 47 percent of the kids were pulled [out of public school] to be home-schooled. And another 29 percent were never enrolled. You can't torture kids if they attend school, somebody is going to notice.

...home schooling is clearly overrepresented in severe and fatal cases of abuse.

http://mobile.edweek.org/c.jsp?cid=25920011&item=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.edweek.org%2Fv1%2Fblogs%2F129%2F%3Fuuid%3D75024

[MichMary]

19. Homeschooling is NOT child abuse

I'm willing to bet that I have known a lot more homeschooling families than you have. While there are some homeschoolers who isolate and abuse their children, the vast majority do not. They are concerned about their children's education and development, and do the best they can to meet their needs. They make opportunities for social interaction, and the opportunities those kids have are far more positive than what goes on on a public school playground.

You can't torture kids if they attend school, somebody is going to notice.

Except that many parents do. Don't have time to do the Googling right now, but links to chilling cases are available.

[SunSeeker]

22. It was in every case of homeschooling I have encountered..

Research shows it conceals child abuse. I gave you the stats.

[MichMary]

23. Actually, no you didn't

You gave me one researcher who threw out a couple of percentages that had nothing to do with percentages of homeschooled kids who were abused.

How many actual homeschooling families have you encountered? And what did you do to report the abuse you witnessed?

[SunSeeker]

26. I cited two different studies at that link.

Sadly, social isolation is not actionable child abuse, otherwise homeschooling would not exist. Nor is teaching the child crazy conspiracy theories about the government and the world. But it is abuse none the less.

[MichMary]

27. From the article:

there is no evidence that child abuse is rampant among the 1.7 million-strong home-schooling community,

Again, I don't want to make it sound like this is a problem in every case, most home-schooling families this is not a problem at all. Their kids eat plenty of food.

We can't know that abuse is more common home schoolers overall, it may not.

The other part that's tough to quantify is: how many cases of haven't come to light? It's extremely difficult to quantify.

We do have 381 cases in our database—most of those cases are from 2000 to present. And these are severe and fatal abuse cases.

So, in 18 years there have been 381 cases of abused homeschooled kids. I wonder how many child abuse cases (even fatal ones) there were over the same 18 years where the kids sat in public school classrooms every day?

[SunSeeker]

30. Considering what a tiny percentage of kids are homeschooled, they comprise a disproportionate share.

A researcher at the University of Wisconsin, Barbara Knox, looked at cases that were so severe she called them child torture. And she found that 47 percent of the kids were pulled [out of public school] to be home-schooled. And another 29 percent were never enrolled.

http://mobile.edweek.org/c.jsp?cid=25920011&item=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.edweek.org%2Fv1%2Fblogs%2F129%2F%3Fuuid%3D75024

[LeftInTX]

29. I homeschooled my son for a few years

He had some learning disabilities....public school was too easy, private school was too hard....

It worked out very well for him.

[SunSeeker]

31. That's very different. You only did it for a few years.

And it was essentially due to medical necessity/lack of appropriate schools for what his learning disability needed.

Your son was not denied socialization. He started out in school and went back to school. You did not do it to extract him from the real world and inculcate him with damaging paranoid delusions.

None of the families I know who homeschooled did so out of necessity like you. They did it for wackadoodle religious reasons. They all used corporal punishment, and they all denied their kids socialization and interaction with diverse environments. And the kids' math skills never got much above basic arithmetic.

[Igel]

20. Absolutely true.

Except that if these were right-wingers we'd be looking at every aspect of their personalities, practices, and home life we didn't like or approve of and attributing this to those traits.

Instead, we tip-toe around all of that to a large extent because there are aspects of their personalities, practices, and home life we don't want to criticize.

Even yesterday, when this was in the stories in the OPs, people were calling the two women who adopted these kinds loving, kind, wonderful people because they were so open-minded and progressive.

If they'd been a conservative traditional couple who adopted across race lines, homeschooled, and then were accused of running the kids of the cliff the group-affirming rhetoric against them would have been amazing.

Homeschooling per-se had nothing to do with this. But it's possible that this and the homeschooling are due to the same factors.

[MichMary]

21. It's often hard to defend

homeschooling because of the stereotype of the Bible-thumping, authoritarian, misogynistic parents who "own" their children and don't want them to be exposed to the evil of the world.

Truth is, I have known lots of homeschooling families, most for religious reasons, and they simply don't fit the stereotype. They socialize, usually with other homeschooled kids, they get along with people of other age groups, they are usually a lot more mature because of their exposure to different age groups, and they are mostly successful learners.

I had one friend who embraced the John Holt method, and no one understood what they were doing. One of her daughters taught herself to read at three, the other struggled, and was much, much older before she learned to read. She eventually did learn, and went on to graduate from college.

Ironically, the one homeschooling friend I had who was controlling and thought she could force her kids to learn by terrorizing them had a degree in public education, and actual experience as a teacher.

[MaryMagdaline]

12. I oppose most homeschooling, too, but my eyes were

Opened by friends who have a child with behavior issues. No aggression, just can't take noise, can't take crowds, really nice kid. The public schhool told the parents to put him on medication or he could not go school. The parents did not want to give their 7 year old behavior modification drugs, not knowing what it would do to his brain, liver, etc. They home school him, paying a tutor out of their hard earned money. The mother is a teacher but knows she cannot teach her own son. She uses all state resources to gauge her son's academic progress. He is smart and does well. The other 2 children go to regular school.

These parents are not against vaccinations or the government; they were at their wit's end. It is very hard for them, but the kid is doing well and he is happy. I have since learned that there are a lot of pseudo-psychiatrists within the public school system pushing boys to be on drugs so that they are easier to control.

Also my new age cousin home-schooled her children. Oldest son got into West Point. I guess it didn't kill him.

[MichMary]

15. I had a friend whose daughter

had problems learning in her public school. The teacher was baffled, so the mom pulled her and her sister out of school, did a lot of research about learning styles, and proceeded to teach to her daughters' needs.

This was probably about 25 years ago, and homeschooling was a controversial concept here in Michigan, and there had been threats of lawsuits and imprisonment. One day some official-looking person pulled into her driveway and just sat there for some time, looking into the front windows. The house was very out-of-the-way, so it wasn't a matter of someone being lost. It scared the heck out of my friend, but didn't deter her, if that was the intention.

[MaryMagdaline]

16. Parents have to do what they can for their kids

Hope your friend's experience turned out well.

[MichMary]

17. We both moved

and I lost track of her, but I know that the girl was much happier and was learning better than she had been in school. I'm sure that had she stayed in school she would have been labeled "learning disabled," and I really believe that labels are terrible for kids.

I've known lots of homeschoolers, different styles, from extremely hands-on to the John Holt method, and have come to the conclusion that happy, healthy kids are going to learn, no matter what.

[appalachiablue]

24. Some more info. and video for this awful tragedy.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/family-famed-for-protest-photo-die-when-suv-goes-off-cliff/ar-BBKMJ2k

[Clarity2]

28. This says it all

“In 2011, Sarah Hart pleaded guilty to a domestic assault charge in Minnesota. Her plea led to the dismissal of a charge of malicious punishment of a child, online court records say.”

And the fact they were kept indoors at all times - that is a form of abuse too.

So sad these kids had a tough life that came to an abrupt ending.