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Mon Apr 30, 2018, 02:49 PM

Parkland students criticise NRA for gun ban at Pence event

Source: BBC

The National Rifle Association (NRA) has drawn the ire of gun-control advocates over a weapons ban at a forum attended by Vice-President Mike Pence.

Survivors of the Parkland, Florida school shooting have criticised the powerful gun lobby for the weapons ban, saying schools deserve the same.

The NRA has long been against gun restrictions of any kind, but cites Mr Pence's safety for the weapons ban.

Mr Pence will speak at the NRA's annual meeting in Dallas, Texas on Friday.

Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43952652



Typical hypocrisy by the supporters of mass murderers:
"Due to the attendance of the Vice-President of the United States, the US Secret Service will be responsible for event security at the NRA-ILA Leadership Forum," the NRA said in a blog post about the event.

"As a result, firearms and firearm accessories, knives or weapons of any kind will be prohibited in the forum prior to and during his attendance."

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While the NRA said the policy was due to US Secret Service protocol, survivors of the deadly Marjory Stoneman Douglas high school shooting in February called out what they said was hypocrisy.

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Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply Parkland students criticise NRA for gun ban at Pence event (Original post)
erronis Apr 2018 OP
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #1
erronis Apr 2018 #2
Iliyah Apr 2018 #3
erronis Apr 2018 #8
Marengo May 2018 #24
Sailor65x1 Apr 2018 #4
LanternWaste Apr 2018 #5
Sailor65x1 Apr 2018 #7
dflprincess Apr 2018 #20
erronis Apr 2018 #6
AncientGeezer Apr 2018 #11
dflprincess Apr 2018 #21
Yavin4 Apr 2018 #14
Sailor65x1 Apr 2018 #15
Yavin4 Apr 2018 #16
mwooldri Apr 2018 #9
AncientGeezer Apr 2018 #10
MichMary Apr 2018 #12
Igel Apr 2018 #22
3Hotdogs Apr 2018 #13
Igel Apr 2018 #23
Nash Teeth Apr 2018 #17
erronis Apr 2018 #18
bluestarone Apr 2018 #19

Response to erronis (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 02:51 PM

1. The hypocrisy at all levels from the right is finally exposed for what it is.

They do not believe in what they say, they believe in enriching themselves no matter what while protecting themselves, no matter what.

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 02:54 PM

2. Why don't we just let the Secret Service take care of our schools?

Oh, wait. They have the same personal control issues as most LEO types.

Why do we keep looking for more "security" when we should just be looking for more "sanity"?

Sanity means getting rid of means of hurting/killing a lot of people quickly.
Sanity means dealing with some root causes of why these events happen.
Sanity means not allowing hate-filled speech to be treated as normal. And that applies to the current pResident*

*in name only

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 03:21 PM

3. It's my understanding that the NRA does not allow weapons

(guns, etc.) at their headquarters. I also read where the NRA said that Shaw (Waffle House) hero needed a "gun". Crazy bullshit stuff. So why not allow guns where Pence who is a hard core gun advocate into the area where he is speaking. Because he's important and we are not.

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Response to Iliyah (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 03:36 PM

8. Yes - that's my understanding too. Years ago I took some small-arm training in their basement

In DC.

Of course arms back then were pistols and rifles with no semi-automatic actions.

Something changed around the 1980 time-frame which made them much more interested in politics than hunting. Probably to do with power and, of course, money.

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Response to erronis (Reply #8)

Tue May 1, 2018, 11:00 AM

24. There were no semiautomatic arms in circulation when you took small arms training?

 

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 03:25 PM

4. It wasn't the NRA that put the ban in place

 

It was the Secret Service.

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Response to Sailor65x1 (Reply #4)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 03:28 PM

5. The kids didn't argue the origin of the ban, only the inherent irony.

The kids didn't argue the origin of the ban, only the inherent irony.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #5)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 03:35 PM

7. No, they are specifically calling it hypocrisy,

 

not irony. And the Secret Service does not have discretion here either. They are professionals working to their rule set. So what does more of this sky-screaming accomplish other than to make them (The screamers) look foolish?

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Response to Sailor65x1 (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 10:00 PM

20. So the NRA is admitting that there are times when the gub'mint can regulate guns without violating

the Second Amendment. And that there are venues where it is not appropriate for every yahoo with a carry permit to have a gun on their person.

That's the hypocrisy.

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Response to Sailor65x1 (Reply #4)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 03:32 PM

6. Well shouldn't the NRA get all over the Secret Service's case?

Since when did a branch of the federal government not follow the whims and whishes of the executive?

Cant he fiat that the Secret Service allow any weapons to be carried at any events including his royal plumpness and other consorts?

He's working at overriding every other common-sense and legal ruling made before him, especially any made by that non-US-born good-looking and smart person who graciously occupied our once leading position.

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Response to erronis (Reply #6)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 04:45 PM

11. Would you want that "fiat" if it were VP Biden attending? SoS Clinton?

 

"Cant he fiat that the Secret Service allow any weapons to be carried...."
Simple answer.....No... and it's silly to suggest so.

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #11)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 10:02 PM

21. So there are times and circumstances when the strict regulation of guns

is not a violation of the 2nd Amendment.

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Response to Sailor65x1 (Reply #4)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 05:24 PM

14. And Pence could over rule the Secret Service or not attend out of principle

Be consistent.

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #14)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 05:41 PM

15. No, he can't

 

I don't know why so many people think there is this magic wand to switch off the Secret Service. Although Presidents have tried to stifle protection for personal reasons in the past, they and the VP are required to submit to protection.

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Response to Sailor65x1 (Reply #15)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 06:59 PM

16. Okay. Then don't go.

Say, you would love to go but you don't want to deny the audience their 2nd amendment rights.

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 04:25 PM

9. Nearly every school kid in the USA is a future President.

Give them the same amount of safety afforded the present Resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 04:40 PM

10. It's a Secret Service issue....

 

If VPOTUS Biden were to attend.. the same rules would apply.

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 05:02 PM

12. But,

aren't most schools gun-free zones?

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Response to MichMary (Reply #12)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 10:10 PM

22. Absolutely.

And the NRA's views (at least its president's view) is mangled.

He called for armed guns in schools.

He called for schools to be gun-free zones.

You can make those two sentences into a contradiction if you strip out the context. That's a typical debate/rhetorical device. It has no place in sound logical argumentation.

I work in precisely such a place. It's weapon free. Period. Not only guns, but knives and various other kinds of weapons are banned. Even if a kid brings one to school and turns himself in, he's got out-of-school suspension and a disciplinary hearing that might result in days of in-school suspension, 6 or 9 weeks at alternative school, and possible criminal charges. One of those three options will happen--even the threat triggers one of those three punishments.

But no restriction is absolute.

If a police officer openly carries his gun on school property while on duty, it's perfectly legal. That includes school cops, which wear police uniforms and are licensed or certified (or whatever the term is) police officers. But the way the law defines 'on duty' for this purpose all police are on duty 24/7. In fact, I've been told it's against state law for him to leave his weapon on school property and unattended. So last year a cop with a daughter on campus came in for a parent meeting during his lunch break; he couldn't leave the gun locked in the trunk in his police car because that would have been illegal. So he had no choice but to do the legal thing and wear his service revolver.

I wonder if the 'survivor' in this case really wanted all the police that showed up at the Parkland shooting to leave all their weapons in lockers at the police station. That's what a gun-free school would look like, wouldn't it? (No, that's probably not what was meant. But the likely answer to that rhetorical question would lead to the exact same contradiction. Which is why the sentence's meaning, in context, is what's required here. Not what it could mean when decontextualized or recontextualized.)

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 05:20 PM

13. Presidents and V.P.'s do sometimes go against the recommendations of the Secret Service.

I believe this is the case where presidents, such as Truman liked to go for walks in public.

I believe Pence should stand up for the 2nd Amendment that he loves so much.

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Response to 3Hotdogs (Reply #13)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 10:11 PM

23. There's a difference.

Truman had possession of his person. The SS would be unlikely to tackle him and handcuff him to his desk. That might ruffle a feather or two.

But as for securing the area in a planned visit, it seems unlikely that the president would even be informed about most of it.

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 06:59 PM

17. Busted! To no effect, tho

The MAGAs don't have a logic gene when it comes to this stuff.

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 07:11 PM

18. I know this is another "dead" (as in innocents) issue. But the Secret Service isn't to blame

It is the congress and the executive branch.

Trying to foist responsibility on why Wayne LaPierrre won't allow weapons inside of his headquarters in Fairfax Va to some "government agency" is exactly what's wrong.

Every time corporate and corporatist responsibility is called into question, it's always "well, the damn government made us do it".

Everyone knows that the reason the NRA has control over gun laws is because they have scared the shit out of lawmakers.

Most know that the NRA doesn't really represent gun enthusiasts or hunters. They represent the armaments industry.

Some know that the NRA has taken millions of dollars in "contributions" from Putin's government.

Not many of us know what Putin wants to gain in return for his investments.

Including his investments in Kushner, Trump.

Sad.

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2018, 07:16 PM

19. They always say

We need good guns to take care of bad guns!! SO WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY AFRAID OF!!!!!!!!!

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