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pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
Fri May 4, 2018, 05:14 PM May 2018

Connecticut court reverses conviction of Michael Skakel

Last edited Fri May 4, 2018, 07:08 PM - Edit history (9)

Source: NY Times

The Connecticut Supreme Court, in a surprising reversal of its own decision less than two years ago, ruled on Friday to vacate the conviction of Michael C. Skakel, who had been found guilty of bludgeoning his neighbor with a golf club in 1975.

The ruling is not only the latest of the many twists in a legal battle that has been drawn out over decades, but could stand as the conclusion of a case that has attracted the attention of tabloids and television newsmagazines with its blend of a cold-case murder with celebrity and wealth.

Mr. Skakel, a nephew of Ethel Kennedy, had been convicted in 2002 of killing Martha Moxley, a 15-year-old in his Greenwich, Conn., neighborhood. Mr. Skakel, also 15 at the time of the killing, was not arrested until he was in his late 30s. He was convicted after a three-week trial that brought to light details including his drinking and drug use.

He had initially been sentenced to 20 years to life for murder. He had spent more than a decade behind bars before he was released in 2013, when a judge vacated his original sentence after finding that his lawyer had not provided effective representation. In a 2016 decision, the Supreme Court ruled to reinstate the conviction, disagreeing with the lower-court judge's finding. Prosecutors will now have to decide whether they will try the case again.

Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/04/nyregion/michael-skakel-conviction-reversed.html



I'm glad. There were at least two other much stronger adult men who were in the area that day. The idea that the scrawny youth had been physically able to move the body never sounded logical to me. There was no forensic evidence tying Michael to the crime. And the alibi witness (who this court found "highly credible) should have been included in the original trial.

I hope the prosecution gives up on this.

ON UPDATE: The ruling turned on a fact that may have ramifications for other defendents in the state. The judges ruled that it was incompetent representation for Skakel's attorney not to seek out the alibi witness whose existence should have been clear from reading the Grand Jury transcript. Miles away from where the murder occurred, in a house where Michael Skakel claimed to have been, there weren't only relatives there that night -- there was an outsider who described spending time with Michael. But the defense never looked for or called on this visitor for the trial.


Much more here:

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-kennedy-cousin-michael-skakel-supreme-court-decision-20180504-story.html

"The sole issue now before us in this appeal by the respondent, the Commissioner of Correction, is whether the habeas court properly concluded that the petitioner, Michael Skakel, is entitled to a new trial because counsel in his murder case, Michael Sherman,rendered ineffective assistance by failing to obtain certain readily available evidence that Sherman should have known was potentially critical to the petitioner's alibi defense, that is, the testimony of a disinterested alibi witness whom the habeas court found to be highly credible," the majority wrote. "Because we agree with the habeas court both that Sherman's failure to secure that evidence was constitutionally inexcusable and that that deficiency undermines confidence in the reliability of the petitioner's conviction--a conviction founded on a case, aptly characterizedby the habeas court as far from overwhelming,that was devoid of any forensic evidence or eyewitness testimony linking the petitioner to the crime--we affirm the judgment of the habeas court ordering a new trial."

SNIP

Sherman was aware of, but ignored, a credible witness, Denis Ossorio, who would have confirmed Skakel's alibi if called to testify. Skakel has claimed since his first interview with police in 1975 that, close to the time Moxley is believed to have been killed, he and two of his brothers were 20 minutes away in what is known as the Greenwich back country, watching Monty Python's Flying Circus on television with a cousin in the cousin's home.

Had the jury heard Ossorio, who - unlike Skakel's brothers and cousin - had no ties to the Skakel family and could not be accused of bias, the verdict might have been not guilty, the court said.


ROBERT KENNEDY JR.'s piece here:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/01/a-miscarriage-of-justice/304759/

SOME PHOTOS AS A TEEN HERE:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/campyskakel/michael-at-15-t4671.html
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Connecticut court reverses conviction of Michael Skakel (Original Post) pnwmom May 2018 OP
My wife and I disagree on this - she thinks he did it, I think he was railroaded. George II May 2018 #1
I'm not saying this about your wife, of course, but I think a lot of the guilters pnwmom May 2018 #2
The Skakels were Kennedy wanna be s... jodymarie aimee May 2018 #6
Michael Kennedy was a child.n/t pnwmom May 2018 #7
He was 15 and already in trouble. Demsrule86 May 2018 #61
Who else could it be? There were lots of people around that night, but how about pnwmom May 2018 #67
Yeah they tried to convince the cops the tutor did it...but there was never any evidence... Demsrule86 May 2018 #73
That's what I told her about 15 minutes ago. The thing is he's not even a real "Kennedy".... George II May 2018 #8
That's true. He was a cousin in Ethel's family. n/t pnwmom May 2018 #21
Love the Kennedys, still think Skankel is guilty as hell. Also think that twelve years is enough.... marble falls May 2018 #40
There is truth in that...had he been caught at the time...I doubt he would have spent that long in Demsrule86 May 2018 #62
Most likely true. All that waste, starting with the victim, dodging justice. marble falls May 2018 #82
The family stonewalled...and I can't blame them...I don't think I would ever turn in one of my kids Demsrule86 May 2018 #83
I don't know that I would turn them in past hiring an attorney who would then... marble falls May 2018 #85
It had to be either a Skakel or the tutor... Demsrule86 May 2018 #86
I think they maybemighthavepossibly gotten the wrong Skakel. One out of five chance. marble falls May 2018 #87
Yes. And yet some guilters here have been acting like they're interchangeable. pnwmom May 2018 #89
That attitude just plain wrong. That is not justice. marble falls May 2018 #95
The two boys were the proper age...the older one passed a lie detector test. Demsrule86 May 2018 #94
But, lie detectors. marble falls May 2018 #96
Littleton, the tutor, FAILED multiple polygraph tests. pnwmom May 2018 #97
You can't go by that...the family and police wanted it to be him...but he was seen at the time the Demsrule86 May 2018 #98
He didn't dodge justice. The system failed and he spent 12 years in prison pnwmom May 2018 #88
I am a Kennedy fan...love Joe III in fact. I think he is guilty. Demsrule86 May 2018 #52
He's just another wealthy white male .. MicaelS May 2018 #16
He was a 15 year old who wasn't given a fair shake pnwmom May 2018 #29
Those two views aren't inconsistent. Jim Lane May 2018 #45
Between the alibi witness, the white hair with the root on the body, pnwmom May 2018 #50
I thought myself when I read this that although I think he is guilty maybe he didn't receive a Demsrule86 May 2018 #63
And shouldn't that be the most important thing to all of us? pnwmom May 2018 #90
I am not saying it is not important...but I do think he is guilty...and maybe with modern forensics, Demsrule86 May 2018 #93
Wasn't he 15 juxtaposed May 2018 #3
yup jodymarie aimee May 2018 #5
Once. George II May 2018 #10
Only the littlest bit snippy. marble falls May 2018 #41
Ok, correction noted. But he was a skinny kid -- the size of my 12 year olds. n/t pnwmom May 2018 #9
you guys have to do some research jodymarie aimee May 2018 #11
who is the "boy" you're referring to onetexan May 2018 #12
Tommy and Michael SKAKEL jodymarie aimee May 2018 #13
You should look stuff up before you post. Michael was a scrawny 120 pound kid. pnwmom May 2018 #15
You should do some research. The fifteen year old didn't wield that golf club. pnwmom May 2018 #14
post a link of a 15 year old kennedy being the size of a 12 year old juxtaposed May 2018 #17
Skakel (who wasn't a Kennedy) was 120 pounds at 15. When I was 12, I was 5 feet 6 and 120 pounds. pnwmom May 2018 #18
post a link to how much she weighed juxtaposed May 2018 #19
She was 5 feet 5 and 120 pounds. So they were about the same size. pnwmom May 2018 #20
Skakel, not Kennedy dflprincess May 2018 #26
Just don't know about this guy. Crutchez_CuiBono May 2018 #4
Let's not forget who was pushing this conviction. dawn frenzy adams May 2018 #22
Right. Also, I doubt if he wasn't connected to the Kennedys that there would have been pnwmom May 2018 #23
Skakel was suspected long before Furhman's book melman May 2018 #30
Martha's mother and brother believed the evidence they heard at the trial, pnwmom May 2018 #39
So you know what they think and exactly why melman May 2018 #47
They don't know anything more about what really happened than anyone else pnwmom May 2018 #48
BS. marble falls May 2018 #42
He is said to have confessed during his 4th and 5th steps in Alcoholics Anonymous. Lil Missy May 2018 #24
No, it was not alleged that he confessed in AA. pnwmom May 2018 #25
You left out the part about where he claimed he was masturbating in the tree melman May 2018 #33
So? That was connected to one of the most ridiculous prosecution claims: pnwmom May 2018 #34
So? melman May 2018 #37
It's irrelevant. Masturbating in a tree isn't murder, and it doesn't place him at the scene. pnwmom May 2018 #38
Thats not so hard as you'd think. Dragging, especialy. marble falls May 2018 #43
Does it really matter? Bradical79 May 2018 #99
No it doesn't. 12 years in jail is enough, innocent or guilty. There is no way at this point to ... marble falls May 2018 #100
I could not have convicted him on the evidence presented JenniferJuniper May 2018 #27
I hope they won't bother with another trial. Between the lack of forensic or eyewitness evidence, pnwmom May 2018 #28
They will almost certainly try him again melman May 2018 #31
LOL. Not if they have any sense. pnwmom May 2018 #32
lol nothing melman May 2018 #35
Then you know about Dominick Dunne's unhinged campaign to influence public opinion pnwmom May 2018 #36
Twelve years in prison is enough for the crime. Its is time to move on. marble falls May 2018 #44
What? He beat a girl to death with a gulf club...and confessed multiple times in various places. Demsrule86 May 2018 #46
He didn't confess. At the most he said he didn't remember and he couldn't pnwmom May 2018 #49
They first suspected his brother. The golf club came from the house...it was because He confessed Demsrule86 May 2018 #51
He didn't confess. There was some hearsay evidence that was paraphrased pnwmom May 2018 #54
I am talking about before that... Demsrule86 May 2018 #55
The school's owner denied that the "confession" had occurred, pnwmom May 2018 #57
Actually, he refused to testify about it...and I don't trust him. You have to understand Demsrule86 May 2018 #58
I lived in a neighboring state and understand the culture. pnwmom May 2018 #59
This has nothing to do with the Kennedys ...the Skakels hads a bad reputation even when Ethel Demsrule86 May 2018 #60
It didn't have to be a Skakel. Lots of people had access to the golf clubs in the open garage. pnwmom May 2018 #64
Yeah they tried to pin it on the tutor. do you think a stranger would not have been noticed? Demsrule86 May 2018 #66
The tutor lived on the property. And he told the state investigator pnwmom May 2018 #68
No melman May 2018 #72
Yes. The reason Littleton was called to testify is because FIRST he told the state investigator pnwmom May 2018 #76
There is more to that actually... Demsrule86 May 2018 #75
The white hair with the root on her body does NOT point to a kid murderer. pnwmom May 2018 #81
She was found in an empty lot ...which was frequented by what passes for criminals in Greenwich... Demsrule86 May 2018 #84
Somebody clue me in. Cold War Spook May 2018 #53
He was tried at 40. Demsrule86 May 2018 #65
Under the circumstances, I'm glad of this decision, PNW, Hortensis May 2018 #56
No new DNA evidence but a disinterested alibi witness who wasn't interviewed for the first trial. n/ pnwmom May 2018 #69
Yes, that's huge and sickeningly outrageous. Hortensis May 2018 #70
It was a lazy or incompetent attorney. He didn't notice that in the Grand Jury transcript pnwmom May 2018 #71
Where was the judge in this? They're supposed Hortensis May 2018 #74
This was not a unanimous decision, btw melman May 2018 #77
Doesn't matter. It's over. The majority disagreed, and this opinion will benefit pnwmom May 2018 #80
Dorthy Moxley: "I have no doubts at all that Michael Skakel is the one who murdered my daughter" melman May 2018 #78
She's thought so ever since the first trial. It means nothing. Meredith Kercher's parents pnwmom May 2018 #79
If anyone still thinks Skakel did it . . . ucrdem May 2018 #91
Thanks for pointing that out. I'd read the article long ago and forgotten that detail. pnwmom May 2018 #92
It's an awesome article ucrdem May 2018 #101
In 1998, Richard Blumenthal was the CY AG and he is well respected. karynnj May 2018 #102

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
2. I'm not saying this about your wife, of course, but I think a lot of the guilters
Fri May 4, 2018, 05:26 PM
May 2018

are influenced by Kennedy hate. They're sure that he's guilty because Kennedys do bad stuff and get away with it.

Demsrule86

(68,469 posts)
61. He was 15 and already in trouble.
Sat May 5, 2018, 10:29 PM
May 2018

Who else could it be...you think a vagrant wandered into the Skakel's house and stole a golf club and then murdered Martha who had been hanging out with the Skakels most of the night?

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
67. Who else could it be? There were lots of people around that night, but how about
Sat May 5, 2018, 10:40 PM
May 2018

Kenneth Littleton, the tutor who once admitted telling a state investigator that he confessed the murder to his wife?

He's a possibility, for sure. Another possibility is the older brother, Tom, who admitted having sex with the victim.

Too bad the police screwed up so badly on collecting and keeping DNA evidence.

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/14/nyregion/skakel-tutor-once-a-suspect-says-his-admission-in-the-moxley-killing-was-wrong.html

The judge in the murder trial of Michael C. Skakel allowed jurors to hear conflicting and confusing testimony today from another longtime suspect about whether he had ever confessed to the crime.

The suspect, Kenneth W. Littleton, started working as a live-in tutor for the Skakel family just hours before Martha Moxley was bludgeoned to death in 1975. On the witness stand today, Mr. Littleton denied killing Miss Moxley, but he also acknowledged telling a state investigator that he had confessed to his wife.

Mr. Littleton, who has a history of psychiatric problems, is crucial to both sides of the case. Lawyers for Mr. Skakel, 41, a nephew of Ethel Kennedy, hope to convince jurors that Mr. Littleton was actually the killer. Prosecutors are counting on the testimony of Mr. Littleton to provide an alibi for both himself and another longtime suspect in the case, Mr. Skakel's older brother, Thomas.

Demsrule86

(68,469 posts)
73. Yeah they tried to convince the cops the tutor did it...but there was never any evidence...
Sat May 5, 2018, 10:53 PM
May 2018

although his life was ruined and he drank...his wife was used to trap him...telling him he had confessed to her in a black out...I don't know we will ever know for sure.

George II

(67,782 posts)
8. That's what I told her about 15 minutes ago. The thing is he's not even a real "Kennedy"....
Fri May 4, 2018, 05:55 PM
May 2018

....he's a "Kennedy" by family marriage.

marble falls

(57,013 posts)
40. Love the Kennedys, still think Skankel is guilty as hell. Also think that twelve years is enough....
Sat May 5, 2018, 07:56 AM
May 2018

for a crime by a fifteen year old.

Demsrule86

(68,469 posts)
62. There is truth in that...had he been caught at the time...I doubt he would have spent that long in
Sat May 5, 2018, 10:30 PM
May 2018

jail.

Demsrule86

(68,469 posts)
83. The family stonewalled...and I can't blame them...I don't think I would ever turn in one of my kids
Sun May 6, 2018, 10:51 AM
May 2018

for any reason.

marble falls

(57,013 posts)
85. I don't know that I would turn them in past hiring an attorney who would then...
Sun May 6, 2018, 11:24 AM
May 2018

advise him that turning himself in spoke more about his innocence than running away out the country would.

More needs to be made known about his family history.

At any rate if he is not guilty, fighting this thing the way he and his family did, its too late to even begin to find the guilty party. Truly justice delayed and justice for Miss Moxely at least, denied.

I believe guilty or innocent, he's spent enough time behind bars.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
89. Yes. And yet some guilters here have been acting like they're interchangeable.
Sun May 6, 2018, 02:14 PM
May 2018

The reasoning apparently goes: the Skakels are bad. So as long as they got a Skakel, it's okay.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
97. Littleton, the tutor, FAILED multiple polygraph tests.
Sun May 6, 2018, 05:50 PM
May 2018

Michael offered to take a lie detector test, and they never took him up on it. That was because they were so focused on the older Skakel at the time.

For some reason they decided that it couldn't be the tutor -- even though another investigator linked him to a series of bludgeoning deaths in towns where he'd lived.

And they never investigated Franz Wittine, the gardener/chauffeur/handyman who lived in the basement of the house, who was one of those suggesting 120 pound Michael had carried out the violent murder. (The gardener was old enough to have been the donor of the white hair that was found on the body.) Shortly after the murder, he retired and left the Skakel employ -- even though that meant missing the 20-year benefits he would have had if he had stayed a few more months.

http://www.marthamoxley.com/news/051301gt.htm

In addition to those whom authorities publicly identified as suspects prior to Skakel's January 2000 arrest - most notably former Skakel family tutor Kenneth Littleton and Skakel's older brother, Thomas Skakel - Greenwich Time has learned the defense also may target Skakel handyman Franz Wittine, who died in 1997, even though the lead investigator in the case says he is not a suspect and never has been one.

Wittine, who worked for the family as a chauffeur as well as doing odd jobs, was living in a basement apartment at the Skakel residence at the time Moxley was killed with a golf club owned by the Skakels.

SNIP

Although Sheridan had once thought Wittine a strong possible suspect, and his memo may be used at trial to show Wittine in an unfavorable light, Sheridan said he no longer believed the former Skakel handyman could have killed Moxley.

Among other things, the memo states that Wittine behaved in a way that could be considered inappropriate when the Skakel brothers had visitors to their Otter Rock Drive home before Moxley's death. The memo also said Moxley wrote in her diary that she was afraid of someone who could have been Wittine.

While following up on the diary entry, according to the memo, Sheridan learned that prior to Moxley's slaying, another neighborhood teen had an encounter with Wittine that Sheridan interpreted as having possibly been inappropriate.


http://www.marthamoxley.com/news/050502gt.htm

By March, the family gardener, Franz Wittine, told police he had retired and would appear for an interview. He felt everyone in the house had been treating Michael as if he knew something, Wittine said. Michael's brothers and sister had been exceptionally nice to him since the incident, the police report said. Wittine told police he had a "gut" feeling about the connection.

SNIP

In October 1976, a year after the murder, Littleton failed a polygraph test. He told police what they already knew: He had spent the summer in Nantucket, where he was arrested on burglary and larceny charges. Those incidents distracted him during the polygraph, he said.

Following his criminal charges and his failed test, police did an extensive background check on Littleton. People who knew him in Nantucket said he made a turnaround between the summers of 1975 and 1976; that he had begun drinking heavily and acting aloof. Some told police they feared him.

Demsrule86

(68,469 posts)
98. You can't go by that...the family and police wanted it to be him...but he was seen at the time the
Mon May 7, 2018, 09:25 AM
May 2018

murder is though to have happened.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
88. He didn't dodge justice. The system failed and he spent 12 years in prison
Sun May 6, 2018, 02:12 PM
May 2018

on a conviction that has now been vacated.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
29. He was a 15 year old who wasn't given a fair shake
Sat May 5, 2018, 12:45 AM
May 2018

Last edited Sat May 5, 2018, 01:28 AM - Edit history (1)

because he was a cousin of an in-law of the Kennedy's, and Dominick Dunne used his platform to take him down.

There was no forensic evidence, no eyewitness, there were logical difficulties (how a 120 pound boy managed to drag a 120 pound body almost 100 yards), and there was a disinterested alibi witness who wasn't interviewed or brought to the trial.

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
45. Those two views aren't inconsistent.
Sat May 5, 2018, 12:46 PM
May 2018

It depends on your definition of "railroaded" -- but it's quite possible for a guilty person to be arrested and then unfairly convicted.

Based on the brief summary in the OP, it seems to me that there's a strong case for ineffective assistance of counsel. That's a well-established basis for setting aside a conviction. If the prosecution does decide to retry him, the jury might hear the alibi witness who wasn't called at the first trial, and nevertheless decide to find Skakel guilty. The difference is that, in that scenario, he would have had a fair trial.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
50. Between the alibi witness, the white hair with the root on the body,
Sat May 5, 2018, 04:24 PM
May 2018

the lack of eyewitnesses, the lack of a confession (Michael never said he remembered killing her, despite how some people still characterize the hearsay), and the unlikelihood of a 120 pound kid being able to drag a 120 pound body for almost a hundred yards, trying him again is a waste of the state's resources.

But you're right, a guilty person can be railroaded and no one should support that.

Demsrule86

(68,469 posts)
63. I thought myself when I read this that although I think he is guilty maybe he didn't receive a
Sat May 5, 2018, 10:31 PM
May 2018

fair trial...

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
90. And shouldn't that be the most important thing to all of us?
Sun May 6, 2018, 02:16 PM
May 2018

It affects ALL of our rights to a fair trial.

Demsrule86

(68,469 posts)
93. I am not saying it is not important...but I do think he is guilty...and maybe with modern forensics,
Sun May 6, 2018, 03:29 PM
May 2018

we will know once and for all.

 

jodymarie aimee

(3,975 posts)
11. you guys have to do some research
Fri May 4, 2018, 06:07 PM
May 2018

I go way back and followed every minute of this case...the 2 brothers were big horny teens who used to sit in a tree outside Martha's bedroom and stalk her. The Daddy was a mean drunk and let the kids drink. The mom died and they were pretty reckless....

This "boy" was big enough to wield a golf club hard enough to leave 1/2 of it in her body.

onetexan

(13,020 posts)
12. who is the "boy" you're referring to
Fri May 4, 2018, 06:10 PM
May 2018

one of the big drunk brothers, or Kakel (who it was documented as pretty scrawny at the time)?

 

jodymarie aimee

(3,975 posts)
13. Tommy and Michael SKAKEL
Fri May 4, 2018, 06:17 PM
May 2018

they both had crushes on Martha...first Tommy was charged, then the cops changed it to Michael..you got to look this stuff up before you post !! Peace and OUT>

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
15. You should look stuff up before you post. Michael was a scrawny 120 pound kid.
Fri May 4, 2018, 06:27 PM
May 2018

And he was the one convicted, not his bigger older brother or the tutor, an adult who was also in the area and much stronger than Michael.

Also, there was a white hair, pulled out by the root, on the victim's body. That didn't come from a 15 year old.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
14. You should do some research. The fifteen year old didn't wield that golf club.
Fri May 4, 2018, 06:20 PM
May 2018

There wasn't a speck of forensic evidence or eyewitness testimony that connected him to the crime.

And he was miles away, according to a disinterested witness who wasn't interviewed or called to be a witness at trial. The fact of this witness's existence was made known in the Grand Jury transcript, which the defense attorney apparently didn't notice.

The Supreme Court said it was the defense attorney's obligation to seek out that witness and interview him. The defense failed.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
18. Skakel (who wasn't a Kennedy) was 120 pounds at 15. When I was 12, I was 5 feet 6 and 120 pounds.
Fri May 4, 2018, 07:01 PM
May 2018

Last edited Sat May 5, 2018, 12:46 AM - Edit history (1)

And most of the boys were half a foot shorter.

Many boys are still very underdeveloped at the age of 15, whether they are related to Kennedy's or not.

There are some pictures of him around that age here, including one playing tennis at 15. Does he look like a strong man in any of these? Someone capable of dragging or carrying the victim's body for a hundred yards?

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/campyskakel/michael-at-15-t4671.html



pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
20. She was 5 feet 5 and 120 pounds. So they were about the same size.
Fri May 4, 2018, 07:49 PM
May 2018

And there was no forensic evidence linking Michael to her death, but there was a white hair, pulled out by the roots, found on her body.

And there was a non-family witness who placed Michael at a home several miles away at the time of the murder, but who wasn't called -- or even interviewed -- by the incompetent attorney. That's why the conviction was vacated.

https://www.nytimes.com/1975/12/23/archives/friends-and-a-fund-recall-the-murdered-girl-in-greenwich-hey.html

The murderer then dragged the 5‐foot 5‐inch, 120‐pound girl across the thick leaf‐cover to a pine tree nearly 100 yards away and hid her body under low branches that touched the ground.

dawn frenzy adams

(429 posts)
22. Let's not forget who was pushing this conviction.
Fri May 4, 2018, 09:57 PM
May 2018

It was none other than crooked, racist, cop, Mark Furhman. How anyone would take his word for anything shows the corrupt cliques that exist among the police.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
23. Right. Also, I doubt if he wasn't connected to the Kennedys that there would have been
Fri May 4, 2018, 10:03 PM
May 2018

so much hate directed toward him.

 

melman

(7,681 posts)
30. Skakel was suspected long before Furhman's book
Sat May 5, 2018, 12:52 AM
May 2018

And Martha's mother and brother are convinced he did it.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
39. Martha's mother and brother believed the evidence they heard at the trial,
Sat May 5, 2018, 02:37 AM
May 2018

which didn't include the alibi evidence, and they were influenced by the heavy media coverage led by Dominick Donne.

And it's much more comfortable for them to believe that their daughter's murderer had been convicted and put in prison than to think the murderer is still at large.

Fortunately, we don't have a justice system that's supposed to convict whoever the victim's family thinks or hopes is guilty.

 

melman

(7,681 posts)
47. So you know what they think and exactly why
Sat May 5, 2018, 03:56 PM
May 2018

They believe Skakel did it because Dominick Dunne and because it's more 'comfortable' for them.

I don't really know what to say to that. Except that it's kind of unbelievable that you think you know more about this case than the victim's family.

The victim's family who are not only, you know, the victim's family but who have been living with this for 43 years.

When did you first hear about this case? I'm guessing it wasn't 1975.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
48. They don't know anything more about what really happened than anyone else
Sat May 5, 2018, 04:07 PM
May 2018

who reads the papers.

They weren't there. And yet they doggedly held on to the belief in his guilt even though there was never any forensic evidence, it was absurd to think a 120 pound boy could have dragged the 120 pound body for that distance, and it was discovered that there was a "highly credible" (according to the magistrate judge) alibi witness who put him miles away at the time of the murder.

I think they were subject to confirmation bias, which is understandable given the painfulness of having the murder remain unresolved decades later.

I don't know when I first heard about it, but if the NY Times covered it in 1975, that's when I read about it.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
25. No, it was not alleged that he confessed in AA.
Fri May 4, 2018, 11:04 PM
May 2018

There were other witnesses, one of whom said Michael wasn't sure if he had done it, that he had been drunk and couldn't remember what happened that night. The others both denied he said he'd done it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/17/nyregion/a-witness-from-skakel-s-past-says-he-confessed-to-the-moxley-killing.html

Mr. Higgins testified that Mr. Skakel was ''sobbing and crying'' and that ''through a progression of statements, he said that he didn't know whether he did it.''

''He thought he may have done it. He didn't know what happened. Eventually he came to the point that he did do it. He must have done it. 'I did it.' ''

But under cross-examination by Mr. Skakel's lawyer, Michael Sherman, Mr. Higgins acknowledged that he had no way of knowing if Mr. Skakel had killed Martha Moxley. ''It would be fair to say that you really didn't know if he did it or not,'' Mr. Sherman asked.

''That's absolutely correct,'' Mr. Higgins replied.

Evidence of possible confessions by Mr. Skakel was expected to be among the strongest components of the state's case. But two other former students at the Elan School, Charles Seigan and Dorothy Rogers, testified that they had never heard Mr. Skakel admit to the killing.

Mr. Seigan testified that he had attended numerous group therapy sessions in which Mr. Skakel was pressed to say he had killed Martha Moxley. He said Mr. Skakel sometimes became angry and at other times cried and said he did not know if he had killed her. ''He never admitted it,'' Mr. Seigan testified. ''He never denied it.''

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
34. So? That was connected to one of the most ridiculous prosecution claims:
Sat May 5, 2018, 01:07 AM
May 2018

That a 120 pound kid could have dragged the 120 pound body for almost 100 yards.

As it was, there was zero forensic evidence connecting him to the crime. Also a disinterested witness (along with family members) gave a statement to the police that he had been with Michael during the time of the murder, in a house miles away.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
38. It's irrelevant. Masturbating in a tree isn't murder, and it doesn't place him at the scene.
Sat May 5, 2018, 01:16 AM
May 2018

People like Dunne used it to make people hate him. But it won't be enough to convict him today.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
99. Does it really matter?
Mon May 7, 2018, 10:12 AM
May 2018

This was all way before my time, but a credible witness putting him somewhere else, and no forensics (assuming the others commenting here are accurate), would seem to make anything else irrelevant.

marble falls

(57,013 posts)
100. No it doesn't. 12 years in jail is enough, innocent or guilty. There is no way at this point to ...
Mon May 7, 2018, 10:25 AM
May 2018

reliably assign guilt to anyone involved. But odds are he did it. Now we all need to move on, remembering the one person who got no justice in any sort of way: Ms Moxley.

In some way that was the problem here - the arc of Skakel's travails overwhelmed the memory of the victim.

JenniferJuniper

(4,507 posts)
27. I could not have convicted him on the evidence presented
Sat May 5, 2018, 12:18 AM
May 2018

and his older brother was just as good a suspect.

I think the new trial is warranted.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
28. I hope they won't bother with another trial. Between the lack of forensic or eyewitness evidence,
Sat May 5, 2018, 12:40 AM
May 2018

and the presence of a disinterested alibi witness, and the logic problems (e.g., how a 120 boy dragged or carried a 120 pound body almost a hundred yards), I think they're going to have trouble finding guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
32. LOL. Not if they have any sense.
Sat May 5, 2018, 12:57 AM
May 2018
Prosecutors will now have to decide whether they will try the case again. On Friday, they said they were reviewing the decision, but they would face significant obstacles, such as witnesses who are dead and hazy memories more than four decades after the crime. As it was, it took 25 years for Mr. Skakel to be charged after an investigation that had long been stalled for lack of physical evidence.
 

melman

(7,681 posts)
35. lol nothing
Sat May 5, 2018, 01:09 AM
May 2018

I live in CT and did at the time of the trial and also at the time of the murder itself. So I know a bit about this and in my opinion they won't let this go. Certainly if Dorthy Moxley and John Moxley have anything to say about it they won't.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
36. Then you know about Dominick Dunne's unhinged campaign to influence public opinion
Sat May 5, 2018, 01:13 AM
May 2018

against Michael Skakel. Well, he isn't around anymore.

This is over.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
49. He didn't confess. At the most he said he didn't remember and he couldn't
Sat May 5, 2018, 04:19 PM
May 2018

be sure what happened that night, because of his drinking, but he had no memory of killing her. And there was a disinterested alibi witness, a witness the magistrate judge said was "highly credible" who said he was NOT there on the night of the crime -- that he was watching TV with a group of young people, in a house miles away. (Where he told police he thought he was.)

Unfortunately, his original attorney didn't bother to interview the witness or call him to trial, which is why the conviction has now been overturned.

Also, there was zero forensic evidence linking him to the crime (although they found a white hair with a root on her body), no eyewitnesses, and the prosecution's claim was that the 120 pound boy dragged the 120 pound body almost a hundred yards. Meanwhile, there were other much stronger adult men around that night who could have been guilty -- but the police for some reason picked out the skinny kid.

So this man spent over a dozen years in prison for a crime in which there was a great deal of reasonable doubt.

Demsrule86

(68,469 posts)
51. They first suspected his brother. The golf club came from the house...it was because He confessed
Sat May 5, 2018, 05:14 PM
May 2018

that the case was reopened.


https://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/17/nyregion/a-witness-from-skakel-s-past-says-he-confessed-to-the-moxley-killing.html

The Skakels tried to pin it on the tutor...this was a disturbed kid.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
54. He didn't confess. There was some hearsay evidence that was paraphrased
Sat May 5, 2018, 05:45 PM
May 2018

as a confession, but it wasn't. People were prodding him to confess, but he couldn't remember what happened while he was drunk.

I'm sure you're aware of the existence of false confessions. This one is classic.

From your link:

Mr. Higgins testified that Mr. Skakel was ''sobbing and crying'' and that ''through a progression of statements, he said that he didn't know whether he did it.''

''He thought he may have done it. He didn't know what happened. Eventually he came to the point that he did do it. He must have done it. 'I did it.' ''

But under cross-examination by Mr. Skakel's lawyer, Michael Sherman, Mr. Higgins acknowledged that he had no way of knowing if Mr. Skakel had killed Martha Moxley. ''It would be fair to say that you really didn't know if he did it or not,'' Mr. Sherman asked.

''That's absolutely correct,'' Mr. Higgins replied.

Evidence of possible confessions by Mr. Skakel was expected to be among the strongest components of the state's case. But two other former students at the Elan School, Charles Seigan and Dorothy Rogers, testified that they had never heard Mr. Skakel admit to the killing.

Mr. Seigan testified that he had attended numerous group therapy sessions in which Mr. Skakel was pressed to say he had killed Martha Moxley. He said Mr. Skakel sometimes became angry and at other times cried and said he did not know if he had killed her. ''He never admitted it,'' Mr. Seigan testified. ''He never denied it.''


Demsrule86

(68,469 posts)
55. I am talking about before that...
Sat May 5, 2018, 08:59 PM
May 2018

"For two years, Michael Skakel attends the Elan School in Poland Spring, Me., a private institution which, at the time, catered to children with mental health and substance abuse problems. According to numerous accounts, Mr. Skakel blurted out during a group therapy session that he had killed Ms. Moxley. But Joe Ricci, the school’s owner, denied that such a confession had occurred.'

"Two witnesses who were both former classmates of Mr. Skakel’s at the Elan School testify. One of them, John D. Higgins, describes a confused and tearful admission in which Mr. Skakel said he had only fragmented memories of the crime. The other witness, Gregory Coleman, says Mr. Skakel brazenly told him: “I am going to get away with murder. I am a Kennedy.”

So now there is an alibi? His friends and family tried to cover for him years ago but it fell apart same thing will happen again. I doubt this alibi very much. But if the case is retried...as the article I gave you points out... they can use DNA and modern forensic evidence unavailable at the time. I think he is guilty. I hope they retry him. Also, he was Ethel Kennedy's nephew. He is not a Kennedy. It is my opinion that Michael is responsible...his brother passed a lie detector test and because he was wealthy he got away with it back in the day. Ironically, He was a disturbed person and would not have faced the years in prison, he did being tried 25 years later if only his faily had come clean.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/04/nyregion/michael-skakel-martha-moxley.html



I should also add the older brother and another kid passed a lie detector test.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
57. The school's owner denied that the "confession" had occurred,
Sat May 5, 2018, 09:19 PM
May 2018

and Higgens himself made it clear that Skakel hadn't really confessed. "I can't remember that night, I must have done it, I did it" doesn't count as a confession.

None of the other witnesses said he actually confessed, except for Gregory Coleman. Why should we believe him? With no forensic evidence, a white hair left on the body, and a 120 pound murderer supposedly dragging a 120 pound body for 100 yards.

And the alibi that you doubt came from a person not in the family who didn't know Michael, and was considered "highly credible" by the magistrate judge who heard it.

He is not going back to trial. Between the alibi evidence, the non-existent forensic and eyewitness evidence, and the overall weak case, it would be a waste of the State's resources to do so. The alibi should have been presented and he'd never have been convicted in the first place. There would have been too much reasonable doubt.

Demsrule86

(68,469 posts)
58. Actually, he refused to testify about it...and I don't trust him. You have to understand
Sat May 5, 2018, 10:14 PM
May 2018

Greenwich and the politics of wealth.In my Connecticut town, three high school boys raped a 13 year old mentally challenged girl at a dance...lured her outside...they were sent to a prep school and faced no consequences...you see she couldn't testify...it was always so. I have seen these sort of kids sent to prep schools or schools for troubled kids multiple times...rarely did they face any consequences. I went to high school Ridgefield Connecticut...heard about this case for years...I am not old enough to remember the case but it was discussed. My folks felt Michael got away with it. I am hoping that they will use DNA and modern forensics to determine the truth and give Martha's mom closure.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
59. I lived in a neighboring state and understand the culture.
Sat May 5, 2018, 10:20 PM
May 2018

I also understand the animosity many directed toward anyone connected to the Kennedys, and the sense that Kennedys got away with too many bad things. I also remember Dominick Dunne's dogged campaign against Michael.

So I think Skekel was the unfortunate 15 year old who bore the burden of a couple decades of accumulated resentment (some of it justified) toward Kennedys. I don't think he was the one who left the white hair on the victim's body. I hope that hair was kept and someone can run a DNA test now.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/01/a-miscarriage-of-justice/304759/

Michael, too, never hesitated to help police investigators. Last year, when it was reported that the state attorney's office had DNA from scrapings taken from under Martha's fingernails at her autopsy, Michael was perfectly willing to comply with the request for his own DNA for testing. The old evidence could not be linked to anyone other than Martha, however, so the prosecution withdrew its request for Michael's samples.

SNIP

The police repeatedly lost or mishandled evidence that might have exculpated Tom, including a piece of the golf-club shaft that was found with the body, a white hair pulled by the roots and found on Martha's body, and vaginal swabs taken by the Connecticut medical examiner.

Demsrule86

(68,469 posts)
60. This has nothing to do with the Kennedys ...the Skakels hads a bad reputation even when Ethel
Sat May 5, 2018, 10:26 PM
May 2018

was young according to my Mom...wild as they come and always in trouble. This happened in Greenwich Connecticut...she was last seen with with the Skakels...late at night. It was shocking in this wealthy town...and I think if the family had not had money...the truth would have come out. I think Michael did it because the brother passed a lie detector test...it had to be a Skakel...they had a golf club from the house.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
64. It didn't have to be a Skakel. Lots of people had access to the golf clubs in the open garage.
Sat May 5, 2018, 10:32 PM
May 2018

And a tutor was living on the property.

The police screwed up with the DNA. Michael offered to give his, but they didn't take it. Would he have offered if he thought he was guilty? And where did the white hair come from? It had a root, so they should have been able to do DNA testing.

ON UPDATE: I realize your parents knew the Skakels. But a great deal of the publicity was against Michael as a Kennedy cousin. Dominick Dunne led the charge in framing it that way. And whether he was smeared because "all Skakels are bad" or "all Kennedys are bad" doesn't matter. There was a very flimsy case against him and he wouldn't have been found guilty if the alibi witness had testified at trial.

Michael, too, never hesitated to help police investigators. Last year, when it was reported that the state attorney's office had DNA from scrapings taken from under Martha's fingernails at her autopsy, Michael was perfectly willing to comply with the request for his own DNA for testing. The old evidence could not be linked to anyone other than Martha, however, so the prosecution withdrew its request for Michael's samples.

SNIP

The police repeatedly lost or mishandled evidence that might have exculpated Tom, including a piece of the golf-club shaft that was found with the body, a white hair pulled by the roots and found on Martha's body, and vaginal swabs taken by the Connecticut medical examiner.



https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/01/a-miscarriage-of-justice/304759/



pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
68. The tutor lived on the property. And he told the state investigator
Sat May 5, 2018, 10:42 PM
May 2018

that he confessed the murder to his wife.

 

melman

(7,681 posts)
72. No
Sat May 5, 2018, 10:51 PM
May 2018

He said his wife told him he confessed. She later testified that he never had, and that she had made it up.


from CNN:

Littleton and Baker were both called as witnesses in Friday's hearing. Littleton said his wife told him he admitted the murder during an alcoholic blackout in the back of his car during a 1984 road trip from Baltimore, Maryland, to Connecticut. On Friday he said he could not recall any of the conversations.

Baker took the stand and said Littleton had never confessed to the murder. She said investigators Jack Solomon and Frank Garr had come to her house in Ottawa in 1992, asking her to help in the case -- to either clear Ken Littleton or to contribute to the investigation.

--

Baker said she tried to coax Littleton into confessing by telling him that during blackouts, he had made damaging statements about the murder, talked about stabbing Moxley, and said he was worried that authorities would find a pair of pants that might incriminate him.

She was asked by Prosecutor Jonathan Benedict if her statement to Littleton about the pants was untrue. "Yes, it was untrue," Baker said.

"Has Ken Littleton ever made any confession to you in regards to murdering Martha Moxley?" Benedict said.

"Never," Baker responded firmly

http://edition.cnn.com/2002/LAW/05/10/trial.skakel/index.html

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
76. Yes. The reason Littleton was called to testify is because FIRST he told the state investigator
Sat May 5, 2018, 11:15 PM
May 2018

that he'd confessed the murder to his wife. So they followed up by talking to her. Later Littleton said he didn't remember, and she denied the confession.

But none of the "confessions" are as important as the reasonable doubt of Michael's guilt brought in by the "highly credible" witness who would have testified that Michael was across town, watching TV with him and others.

At this point, I think it's too late to find out whether the real murderer was Littleton, Thomas, or someone else who came upon a passed out Martha. But Michael Skakel should never have been convicted.

Demsrule86

(68,469 posts)
75. There is more to that actually...
Sat May 5, 2018, 10:57 PM
May 2018

but he didn't know Martha...the evidence points to a kid murderer and the Skakels blocked the investigation...Michael ends up in a school for troubled kids-classic.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
81. The white hair with the root on her body does NOT point to a kid murderer.
Sun May 6, 2018, 12:52 AM
May 2018

Too bad they didn't test the DNA.

And neither does a theory that the 120 pound Skakel could have moved the 120 pound body almost 100 yards.

And the Skakels cooperated in the investigation. They didn't block it.

What they should have done is investigate whoever left the semen in her vagina -- who wasn't Michael.

Demsrule86

(68,469 posts)
84. She was found in an empty lot ...which was frequented by what passes for criminals in Greenwich...
Sun May 6, 2018, 10:54 AM
May 2018

mostly drugs... and if she was murdered on the golf course...might not even be the killers I think he did it. But was it proven...don't know.

 

Cold War Spook

(1,279 posts)
53. Somebody clue me in.
Sat May 5, 2018, 05:35 PM
May 2018

He was 15 at the time, why was he tried as an adult? They tried an adult for a child's felony whether guilty or not.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
56. Under the circumstances, I'm glad of this decision, PNW,
Sat May 5, 2018, 09:07 PM
May 2018

though I know nothing about the murder. Way too much doubt and irregularity in this imprisonment, just shouldn't happen. No new DNA evidence I take it.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
69. No new DNA evidence but a disinterested alibi witness who wasn't interviewed for the first trial. n/
Sat May 5, 2018, 10:43 PM
May 2018

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
71. It was a lazy or incompetent attorney. He didn't notice that in the Grand Jury transcript
Sat May 5, 2018, 10:47 PM
May 2018

there was a clear mention of another, unrelated person in the house where Michael was said to have been. No one bothered to find him or interview him -- and he was considered to be a "highly credible" witness by the judge.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
74. Where was the judge in this? They're supposed
Sat May 5, 2018, 10:53 PM
May 2018

to make sure all is according to law, and attorney negligence is a violation. Well, he has this latest decision. Let's hope it holds.

 

melman

(7,681 posts)
77. This was not a unanimous decision, btw
Sun May 6, 2018, 12:35 AM
May 2018

from the dissenting opinion written by Justice Denis G. Everleigh:

“I continue to believe that the performance of defense counsel, Michael Sherman, was not deficient and, therefore, that the petitioner, Michael Skakel, was not denied his constitutional right to the effective assistance of counsel,” Eveleigh wrote. “Moreover, even if defense counsel’s performance in failing to identify one additional alibi witness, Denis Ossorio, was so deficient as to warrant reconsideration of that decision, I am not persuaded that this alleged shortcoming prejudiced the defense.”

Eveleigh said that Ossorio, in his view, may not have covered Skakel for the entire window of a time in which experts believed Moxley may have been killed, and he accused the majority of twisting facts to suit its purposes.

“Although it recognizes that we are required to engage in a comprehensive, objective review of the factual record, the majority repeatedly minimizes or overlooks evidence and inferences that fail to comport with its narrative of the case, while exaggerating or overstating the strength of the petitioner’s arguments,” Eveleigh wrote. “Barely acknowledging that the state’s evidence was sufficiently compelling to persuade 12 jurors beyond a reasonable doubt of the petitioner’s guilt, the majority takes it upon itself to make credibility determinations with regard to trial witnesses whose testimony bore no direct relationship to the alleged deficient performance of defense counsel. Perhaps most worrisome, the majority refers throughout its opinion to evidence from outside of the trial record, much of which is not even arguably a proper subject of judicial notice.”

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-kennedy-cousin-michael-skakel-supreme-court-decision-20180504-story.html

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
80. Doesn't matter. It's over. The majority disagreed, and this opinion will benefit
Sun May 6, 2018, 12:49 AM
May 2018

future defendants, because it puts prosecution and defense lawyers on notice that they must at least attempt to interview possible alibi witnesses.

 

melman

(7,681 posts)
78. Dorthy Moxley: "I have no doubts at all that Michael Skakel is the one who murdered my daughter"
Sun May 6, 2018, 12:37 AM
May 2018

“I really thought he would go back to jail because it seemed so simple, so obvious to me,” Moxley said in her New Jersey apartment, which she has decorated with portraits of her family, including Martha. “I have no doubts at all that Michael Skakel is the one who murdered my daughter.”

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-kennedy-cousin-michael-skakel-supreme-court-decision-20180504-story.html

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
79. She's thought so ever since the first trial. It means nothing. Meredith Kercher's parents
Sun May 6, 2018, 12:47 AM
May 2018

were equally certain Amanda Knox was the murderer -- for the same reason. The prosecutor convinced them.

In truth, Mrs. Moxley knows no more about the real killer than anyone else who reads the newspapers. She had no inside information that she didn't convey in her testimony.

There was no forensic data linking him to the crime, or previous problems between him and Martha, or eyewitnesses to the attack. And there is a "highly credible" alibi witness, according to the magistrate judge, who placed Michael miles away from where the crime occurred.

Martha's mother, not surprisingly, wanted someone to be convicted so she could put it all behind her. So when the prosecution picked out Michael as the killer, so did she.

But she says she's done with it now. Enough. She's put it behind her, and so should everyone else.

Connecticut won't be retrying the case, unless it's with a different defendant. Unlikely, after all these decades.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
91. If anyone still thinks Skakel did it . . .
Sun May 6, 2018, 03:11 PM
May 2018

read the RFK Jr. article linked in the OP. I hadn't before, and figured he was probably guilty. No more. Lots of very weird sh#t in this case, and weirdest of all is the lifetime immunity granted to the prime suspect by the Connecticut attorney general:

In the summer of 1998 Connecticut's attorney general granted Littleton lifetime immunity and removed him from the suspect list in exchange for his testimony before a rarely invoked one-man grand jury called to indict Michael Skakel.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/01/a-miscarriage-of-justice/304759/




Something smells really bad here.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
92. Thanks for pointing that out. I'd read the article long ago and forgotten that detail.
Sun May 6, 2018, 03:13 PM
May 2018

Yes, that was very strange.

karynnj

(59,498 posts)
102. In 1998, Richard Blumenthal was the CY AG and he is well respected.
Mon May 7, 2018, 09:57 PM
May 2018

I was curious because it seemed odd he was not named, given it would be easy to know given the position.

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