Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 11:25 AM Jul 2018

Austrian State May Require Jews to Register to Buy Kosher Meat

Source: Haaretz



Gottfried Waldhäusl, a cabinet minister in the state government of Lower Austria, defended the plan as necessary 'from an animal welfare point of view'

Jul 18, 2018 12:03 PM

A regional politician in Austria defended a plan to limit access to kosher meat, conditioning its sale on permits that would be individually issued to observant Jews.

The Wiener Zeitung daily reported Tuesday about the draft decree in the state of Lower Austria, one of nine states that make up the federal Republic of Austria. Gottfried Waldhäusl, the cabinet minister in the state government of Lower Austria who is in charge of animal welfare and several other portfolios, defended the plan as necessary “from an animal welfare point of view.”

Oskar Deutsch, the president of the Jewish Community in Vienna, warned that, in practice, the plan would require compiling a list of Jews, which he called “like a negative Aryan clause,” referencing racist laws passed by Nazi Germany and implemented in Austria after its merger with Germany in 1938.

The American Jewish Committee’s Berlin office also referenced Nazi decrees in opposing the plan. “Soon with a star on the chest?” a spokesperson for the group wrote on its official Twitter account. “This is an attack on Jewish and Muslim life! #Anti-Semitism.”




Read more: https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/austrian-state-may-limit-kosher-meat-sales-to-registered-jews-1.6289229?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Austrian State May Require Jews to Register to Buy Kosher Meat (Original Post) DonViejo Jul 2018 OP
The Cheetolini effect. sandensea Jul 2018 #1
Actually I'd say it's more the Putin effect. Initech Jul 2018 #16
You're right. sandensea Jul 2018 #17
Very anti-semetic and awful beyond words...k and r nt Stuart G Jul 2018 #2
Unless the gentleman proposing this is a vegetarian, I call bullsh*t Coventina Jul 2018 #3
Malcolm Nances new book pretty much outlines white nationalist and anti-semitic turbinetree Jul 2018 #4
I find myself referring here to Nance's book constantly. Dave Starsky Jul 2018 #15
Well when you do the job like he did..........he then knows how it works, and who is working it turbinetree Jul 2018 #18
He was on Stephanie Miller's show this morning... Dave Starsky Jul 2018 #21
Which is why we need to "demand" from each and every state election person controlling the turbinetree Jul 2018 #24
and if i'm not Jewish and want that same Kosher meat, do I have to register? Javaman Jul 2018 #5
More detail: Towlie Jul 2018 #6
Thanks for providing the context. That's illuminating. Jim Lane Jul 2018 #25
Austria is so beautiful, but it is certainly headed in a dark direction. lark Jul 2018 #7
I was planning a trip to Austria and Italy in the Spring. OliverQ Jul 2018 #12
I'll never have another opportunity to go, so glad I got to see it before it gets completely bad. lark Jul 2018 #20
"from an animal welfare point of view." BumRushDaShow Jul 2018 #8
No, kosher killing it's not humane at all DavidDvorkin Jul 2018 #10
Any animal killing-for-food is "grotesque" BumRushDaShow Jul 2018 #11
Temple Grandin has written about humane kosher slaughter. moriah Jul 2018 #22
Thanks for that info! BumRushDaShow Jul 2018 #23
like in Nazi germany heaven05 Jul 2018 #9
This had better get nipped in the bud. truthisfreedom Jul 2018 #13
Damn Solly Mack Jul 2018 #14
Adolf, is that you? Nt raccoon Jul 2018 #19
Never forget that Hitler was Austrian nt COLGATE4 Jul 2018 #26

sandensea

(21,529 posts)
1. The Cheetolini effect.
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 11:28 AM
Jul 2018

Other countries are quickly stepping up harassment of minorities, Jewish or otherwise.

Initech

(99,914 posts)
16. Actually I'd say it's more the Putin effect.
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 02:58 PM
Jul 2018

Putin has been stirring up this kind of shit with his troll army for the last 8 years. He's been stirring shit up all over the world stroking the hardcore racists and white supremacists. Dump is just a side effect of this.

Coventina

(26,855 posts)
3. Unless the gentleman proposing this is a vegetarian, I call bullsh*t
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 11:37 AM
Jul 2018

As someone who doesn't eat animals, I am appalled by kosher and halal slaughter practices.
That being said, I'm appalled by ALL slaughter practices.

This is a very suspect "concern" for animals.

turbinetree

(24,632 posts)
4. Malcolm Nances new book pretty much outlines white nationalist and anti-semitic
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 11:41 AM
Jul 2018

rise coming in from a country that was the birth of Hitler and how these politicians and leaders and groups are being funded by Russia in other countries in the region as well to invoke nationalism .......................

Dave Starsky

(5,914 posts)
15. I find myself referring here to Nance's book constantly.
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 02:51 PM
Jul 2018

It's insane how he has predicted everything that is transpiring before us right now. He did the same thing with The Plot to Hack America, which he wrote several months prior to the 2016 election. He was dead right about all of that.

For all of those reading this on the sidelines, read The Plot to Destroy Democracy by Malcolm Nance. It's on the New York Times bestseller list.

turbinetree

(24,632 posts)
18. Well when you do the job like he did..........he then knows how it works, and who is working it
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 03:00 PM
Jul 2018

and it is not pretty........................he is like the canary in the coal mine sort of speak...................he is warning everyone how the criminal gangs and traitors in the world are doing it................and he put 2+2= 4 together, so that we can all understand.................

Dave Starsky

(5,914 posts)
21. He was on Stephanie Miller's show this morning...
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 04:06 PM
Jul 2018

And he said that he reread his own book a week ago, and he started to actually panic over the implications of everything that he lays out. He is not kidding when he says we have to do everything we legally can to get this asshole out of office--which includes, at the very least, finding two or three people that you know didn't vote in the last election and doing whatever to make sure that they VOTE this time. It doesn't matter if you live in a red or blue state. Just get the word out and help them vote!

turbinetree

(24,632 posts)
24. Which is why we need to "demand" from each and every state election person controlling the
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 07:02 PM
Jul 2018

voting machines, that "We the People" demand paper ballots...............as an example there is a "guy" if Georgia by the name of Kemp ( who is running for the top spot to further the disenfranchisement voters has governor), he is currently the sec of the state, a lawsuit was filed about the voting machines and he is denying that experts have access to the machines to see if they were hacked in the last election...........................

https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/election?p0=263&iso=20181106T12&msg=2018%20Midterm%20Elections

Javaman

(62,439 posts)
5. and if i'm not Jewish and want that same Kosher meat, do I have to register?
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 12:07 PM
Jul 2018

antisemitism takes many forms.

fuck this nazi prick.

Towlie

(5,308 posts)
6. More detail:
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 12:33 PM
Jul 2018
https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/austrian-state-may-limit-kosher-meat-sales-to-registered-jews-1.6289229

Jewish and Muslim religious laws require animals be conscious when their throats are cut for the mean (sic) to be kosher or halal, respectively. Judaism imposes stricter limitations on how animals should be slaughtered to ensure a swift dispatching. Critics of the production of kosher and halal meat say it is cruel, though advocates of the practices argue they cause less suffering overall because they are designed to be as painless as possible and cannot be fully mechanized.


It could be argued that a better solution would be to ban such meat altogether for the sake of the animals, but this clumsy measure seems intended to allow freedom of religion to have precedence over animal rights.
 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
25. Thanks for providing the context. That's illuminating.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 12:01 PM
Jul 2018

It should be undisputed that the government ought to prohibit certain practices on the grounds that they're inhumane. NFL star Michael Vick spent 21 months in prison for his involvement in a dog-fighting ring. People apparently disagree about the particular practice of kosher slaughtering.

If the government decides to prohibit it, then it makes sense to try to accommodate the people whose free exercise of their religion depends on it, and to make an exception for them. But that necessarily requires that the people entitled to the exception be identified.

We have something similar in the U.S. The Amish have a religious objection to Social Security. When Social Security was extended to agricultural workers, at least one Amish farmer went to jail rather than pay FICA taxes. As a result, the law was amended to provide an exemption for the Amish, but it had to be narrowly tailored. If a bunch of libertarians were to start a "church" that hails Ayn Rand as a prophet, they wouldn't qualify.

Accommodating minority religious views leads to difficult problems sometimes. Governments could just say "the hell with it" and imprison Amish farmers while making it impossible for some Jews to get meat. Or they could go to the other extreme and say that anyone can get an exemption just by asking, meaning that the laws mandating FICA taxes and prohibiting kosher slaughtering are, in effect, dead letters. The only way to avoid those unreasonable extremes is to give some people a preferred status, based on their religious views, and to couple that discrimination with a mechanism for identifying the ones who are chose (pun intended). Of these three bad solutions, the last one is the least bad.

lark

(23,003 posts)
7. Austria is so beautiful, but it is certainly headed in a dark direction.
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 12:38 PM
Jul 2018

I could see it and feel it when I was there in March. The tour guides talked a lot about how the direction of the country was changing so much and they were separating themselves from EU, made little snide remarks about immigrants and the Peace Way had been vandalized. They, Slovenia & Poland are all moving to quickly to the right and have formed their own little coalition. It's still great to visit the Alps in Austria and the orchestras in Vienna are top notch, but I would never even consider moving to any of those countries which are going backwards swiftly.

 

OliverQ

(3,363 posts)
12. I was planning a trip to Austria and Italy in the Spring.
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 02:04 PM
Jul 2018

I really wanted to see Vienna and Salzburg, but now I'm thinking I should change it to Switzerland.

lark

(23,003 posts)
20. I'll never have another opportunity to go, so glad I got to see it before it gets completely bad.
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 03:56 PM
Jul 2018

I've retired so this was a last hurrah, can't afford to go to Europe now. After seeing this article, I've heard Switzerland is very beautiful.

BumRushDaShow

(127,301 posts)
8. "from an animal welfare point of view."
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 12:42 PM
Jul 2018

WTF?

The processing of animals to be deemed "Kosher" is more humane than what happens in the typical meat processing plant.

The Upton Sinclair book "The Jungle", about the meatpacking industry and unsanitary practices, is what lead to this country's food and drug laws.

It's sad that all the cries for "Never Forget" have meant nothing. None of it is "forgotten" because so much of it was written about and filmed at the time, and taught and discussed ever since. Yet the cycle begins anew.

DavidDvorkin

(19,404 posts)
10. No, kosher killing it's not humane at all
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 01:38 PM
Jul 2018

I've seen it done. My father was a shochet, among his other jobs. It's grotesque.

But of course what's going on in Austria has nothing to do with concern for animal welfare.

BumRushDaShow

(127,301 posts)
11. Any animal killing-for-food is "grotesque"
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 01:46 PM
Jul 2018

but the slaughterhouses are notably worse.

In any case, definitely agree that what that Austrian Minister is claiming is complete bullshit.

moriah

(8,311 posts)
22. Temple Grandin has written about humane kosher slaughter.
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 04:14 PM
Jul 2018
http://www.grandin.com/ritual/rec.ritual.slaughter.html

Essentially her opinion on all humane slaughter practices has been to reduce stress on the animal prior, and her only issue is the restraint systems some people use.

There are ways to perform kosher or halal slaughter that don't involve such methods such as upside-down-by-the-legs restraint. After that, it's mostly about the cut for the best outcomes.

http://www.grandin.com/ritual/kosher.box.variables.time.lose.sensibility.html

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
9. like in Nazi germany
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 01:24 PM
Jul 2018

Last edited Thu Jul 19, 2018, 09:24 AM - Edit history (1)

it started with 'small' hardly noticed decrees and ended up with Dachau, Auschwitz. So it starts....the worldwide nazi movement now with trump as one of it's leading white supremacist proponents is ever so slowly gearing up for genocide. I watching Charlottesville next month on this one-year observance by the Nazi/KKK idiots of their murder of Heather Heyer and injuring of many with life-changing injuries.

Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Austrian State May Requir...