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highplainsdem

(48,973 posts)
Wed Sep 19, 2018, 09:51 AM Sep 2018

Tightening Texas race boosts Democrats' hopes of taking Senate: Reuters poll

Source: Reuters

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The Democratic congressman aiming to unseat Republican U.S. Senator Ted Cruz in Texas has pulled even in the race, a Reuters poll found, a spark of hope for a party seeking a Senate majority to curb President Donald Trump’s agenda.

-snip-

Among the bright spots for Democrats: U.S. Representative Beto O’Rourke of Texas had a 2-percentage-point lead over Cruz among likely voters in the state and U.S. Representative Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona had a 3-point lead over Republican congresswoman Martha McSally in the race to succeed U.S. Senator Jeff Flake, one of Trump’s most vocal critics from within his own party.

Both leads are within the poll’s 4-percentage-point credibility intervals, a measure of precision, meaning the candidates are drawing about the same level of support.

The finding suggests that O’Rourke has a shot at becoming the first Democrat to represent Texas in the U.S. Senate in a quarter century.

-snip-

Read more: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-statepolls/tightening-texas-race-boosts-democrats-hopes-of-taking-senate-reuters-poll-idUSKCN1LZ18B

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Tightening Texas race boosts Democrats' hopes of taking Senate: Reuters poll (Original Post) highplainsdem Sep 2018 OP
Man I hope this can happen BumRushDaShow Sep 2018 #1
I hope this is accurate, rsdsharp Sep 2018 #2
But from the poll that you linked to BumRushDaShow Sep 2018 #7
Both the Quinnipiac and Reuters polls rsdsharp Sep 2018 #8
Yes but you wrote this - BumRushDaShow Sep 2018 #9
Because Texans know Beto can be what Ted Cruz never was bucolic_frolic Sep 2018 #3
And even Republicans hate Ted Cruz TexasBushwhacker Sep 2018 #5
Big difference this and Quinnipiac's 9-point Cruz lead marylandblue Sep 2018 #4
The Quinnipiac poll heavily sifted for "likely" voters Dopers_Greed Sep 2018 #6
From a down and out Texan here... hamsterjill Sep 2018 #10

BumRushDaShow

(128,896 posts)
1. Man I hope this can happen
Wed Sep 19, 2018, 10:06 AM
Sep 2018

Although there needs to be some umph put into the Nevada race too because of all the races, that one was the easiest pickup and suddenly the Democrat (Rosen) has fallen behind Heller. The same goes for the Florida race with Nelson vs Scott (with Nelson being the (D) incumbent).

BumRushDaShow

(128,896 posts)
7. But from the poll that you linked to
Wed Sep 19, 2018, 12:06 PM
Sep 2018

they did what Gallup had done in 2012 - suddenly switch from reporting "registered voters" to now reporting "likely voters". I.e. (from your link), -

A major difference may be that the previous poll was conducted among registered voters, while the new survey is the first that Quinnipiac did this year of likely voters. (As Quinnipiac notes: “This is the first survey of likely voters in this race by the independent Quinnipiac University Poll, and can not be compared to earlier surveys of registered voters.”)


I remember during the 2012 Presidential election when Gallup did their switch from "registered" to "likely", which caused a similar significant shift, and eventually a later big fail because of who they considered "likely voters", not taking into account that their methodology of using the same old thinking of who was "likely" to vote, could not be carried over and accurately applied in that instance.

This is where pollsters are going to really have to make some decisions and not just go with "past practices" which introduce an automatic bias. The same thing happened (outside of the Russian meddling that had some impact) in 2016, where there were a group of voters who were not factored in as "likely" (those disaffected deplorable Drumpsters, many of whom had never voted before or had even previously voted for Democrats).

After the 2012 fiasco (where Gallup no longer does this poll), Huffington summarized what Gallup said happened -

Misidentification of Likely Voters. Like most other media pollsters, Gallup attempts to determine which respondents are likely to actually vote in November, using a procedure developed in the 1950s that involves a battery of questions, such as how often they’ve voted in the past and how much attention they’re paying to the election. Last year, this likely voter model moved Gallup’s estimate of the margin separating Obama and Romney 4 points in Romney’s direction.

“That, in and of itself,” Newport said, “was at least 1 point more towards Romney than the average of other polls that were using some time of likely voter model.” Thus, “on that sense alone,” he concluded, “they moved things too far in moving the sample towards Mitt Romney.” While Gallup is continuing to investigate its likely voter procedures with a series of experiments in the fall 2013 state elections, it pointed out one big issue in 2012: that many Obama voters said they hadn’t given much thought to the election, removing them from the likely voter pool even though they intended to cast a ballot. Gallup is researching whether it needs to majorly overhaul or even replace the way it identifies likely voters.

Under-Representation of Regions. Gallup also weights its data by a variety of factors, including broad geographical regions such as the Midwest and the South. But each region contains several time zones. Due to differing response rates, Gallup didn’t interview enough people in certain time zones within some regions, effectively undersampling states that vote more Democratic.

Faulty Representation of Race and Ethnicity. As HuffPost first reported in June 2012, Gallup in recent years has used an unusual method to ask about race that distorted the racial composition of its samples when the data were weighted. Unlike most other pollsters, who ask respondents to select from a list of racial and ethnic categories, Gallup asked respondents whether they identified with each racial and ethnic group one by one. This led to a disproportionate number of people who said they were multiracial, and that in turn distorted the weighting procedure, effectively giving too much weight to some white voters.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/04/gallup-poll-2012_n_3384882.html


From Gallup's report (PDF) -

Conclusion: The fundamental assumption justifying likely voter models is that a broad national adult sample, or even registered voter sample, does not reflect the demographic or political profile of the real electorate. As long as the underlying sample is representative of the U.S. public, applying a likely voter model makes sense. Also, historical turnout patterns show that likely voter models should have the effect of increasing support for the Republican candidate. This is how Gallup’s model worked in 2012, and apparently how other firms’ models worked but to a lesser degree.

Nevertheless, nearly all firms underestimated support for Obama. Gallup’s likely voter analysis largely speaks to the difference between Gallup’s likely voter model and other firms’ models, indicating the need for improvements that might be made based on further research. By making the vote choice less Democratic/more Republican, Gallup’s likely voter model performed in the same general way as the models that all other election polling firms used. Gallup’s four-point shift toward Romney, however, was greater than other polls’ shifts. And, various combinations of the use or weighting of likely voter questions would have changed Gallup’s final estimate of the presidential vote to be more in line with other firms’. Thus, Gallup will continue to investigate the model’s performance, both with upcoming validation studies of the 2013 gubernatorial elections, and in the context of additional research on the underlying sample. If changes in the research and election environments have shifted national samples closer to likely voters than has been the case historically, then the likely voter model needs to be adapted to correct for it.

https://news.gallup.com/file/poll/162887/Gallup%202012%20Presidential%20Election%20Polling%20Review.pdf


So bottom line is that we'll have to hope that aggregate polls give a better idea of what is going on. But even then all you have to do is look at what happened in 2016 (although most said it was "close" but the actual result produced literally polar opposite outcomes of what was supposedly "close" when comparing the actual electoral votes vs the popular vote).

And a real tell-tale sign of misjudging "likely voters" and "actual voters", was what happened in Alabama with Doug Jones. Blacks in general would have definitely not been considered "likely voters" - particularly during a special election based on "past practice" (bias). Yet here we are with Doug Jones elected out of Alabama thanks to an enhanced turnout of black women.

rsdsharp

(9,168 posts)
8. Both the Quinnipiac and Reuters polls
Wed Sep 19, 2018, 12:12 PM
Sep 2018

are of likely voters. How Quinnipiac polled previously does not change that. On successive days, one poll of likely voters has Cruz up by 9 points, and the next day another poll of likely voters has Beto up by 2.

BumRushDaShow

(128,896 posts)
9. Yes but you wrote this -
Wed Sep 19, 2018, 12:27 PM
Sep 2018
but yesterday the story was that a Quinnipiac poll had Cruz with a nine point lead.


And it needed to be clarified that the article you linked to uses the term "shot up" and does other things to compare it to a previous Quinnipiac poll -

A new Quinnipiac University Poll found Cruz leading in his reelection campaign 54 percent to O’Rourke’s 45 percent. O’Rourke’s standing in the survey is up from 43 percent in an August poll, but Cruz has shot up from 49 percent to 54 percent—one of his highest reelection numbers this year. A major difference may be that the previous poll was conducted among registered voters, while the new survey is the first that Quinnipiac did this year of likely voters.


I.e., THAT article was trying to characterize it as being significantly different from the previous Qunninipiac poll because of some magic... and they even speculate in their subtitle "Undecided voters finally developed an opinion of O’Rourke—and it is unfavorable", yet they should have really highlighted the fact that the poll has switched from "registered voters" to "likely voters". I.e., the article is overall biased. The question at this point with Quinnipiac is who they consider "likely voters" (which is what brought up my thing about Gallup and their problems determining "likely voters" ).

I was not comparing the Quinnipiac to the Reuters/Ipsos poll from the OP because you will probably have these polls all over the map initially now that they have started reporting "likely" voters. I was just noting the issues that I had with the article about the Quinnipiac poll you linked to.

bucolic_frolic

(43,141 posts)
3. Because Texans know Beto can be what Ted Cruz never was
Wed Sep 19, 2018, 10:38 AM
Sep 2018

a viable candidate for President, and if there's anything Texans want it's their man in the White House!

TexasBushwhacker

(20,180 posts)
5. And even Republicans hate Ted Cruz
Wed Sep 19, 2018, 10:43 AM
Sep 2018

He's a jerk and has done nothing while in the Senate except bloviate and obstruct. O' Rourke, on the other hand, is a reach across the aisle and get things done kind of guy. He recently worked on a bill with John Cornyn to increase funding for the ports of entry so that immigrants can be processed through LEGAL channels. What a concept!

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
4. Big difference this and Quinnipiac's 9-point Cruz lead
Wed Sep 19, 2018, 10:42 AM
Sep 2018

But this one is more in line with other recent polling.

Dopers_Greed

(2,640 posts)
6. The Quinnipiac poll heavily sifted for "likely" voters
Wed Sep 19, 2018, 11:00 AM
Sep 2018

Going to be a close race.

Make sure every person you know is registered.

hamsterjill

(15,220 posts)
10. From a down and out Texan here...
Wed Sep 19, 2018, 12:49 PM
Sep 2018

Beto is awesome and I want desperately for him to win. But we just last night lost a Texas Senate seat in a special election to yet another crazy-ass-religious-jerk. We lost because Democrats didn’t show up at the polls.

What in the hell is it going to take?

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