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eppur_se_muova

(36,259 posts)
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 04:58 PM Sep 2012

Egypt retires 70 army generals

Source: BBC

Seventy generals in the Egyptian armed forces are to be retired, the government has announced.

The move comes weeks after President Mohammed Mursi replaced the defence minister and the chief of staff.

However, six of the generals will keep their positions on the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (Scaf).

Some analysts say Mr Mursi is asserting his authority over the army. There has so far been little adverse reaction from the military establishment.



Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19456182



Gen Sisi ? SRSLY ?
28 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Egypt retires 70 army generals (Original Post) eppur_se_muova Sep 2012 OP
That's a lot of stars Posteritatis Sep 2012 #1
The Muslim Brotherhood has tightened its control of Egypt and Libya. With US help they can add Syria jody Sep 2012 #2
Oy. (nt) Posteritatis Sep 2012 #3
Amazing how a two letter word can contain so much truth. nt jody Sep 2012 #5
Their choice onwardsand upwards Sep 2012 #4
Agree "their right if they vote" iff all adults are allowed to vote their conscience and unalienable jody Sep 2012 #6
I don't think the woman obliviously Sep 2012 #7
Who is Egypt is stripping away the rights of women??? It is NOT the Moslem Brotherhood happyslug Sep 2012 #28
It is sad, but we have not offered a believable alternative for Egyptians. JDPriestly Sep 2012 #8
wasn't the military dictatorship kind of 'encouraged' by the US? azurnoir Sep 2012 #9
I had that impression too. And we still seem to be encouraging it. JDPriestly Sep 2012 #22
We like authoritarian governments, and aspire to be one ourselves. bemildred Sep 2012 #25
Just listen to our expert statesman, Dubya: eppur_se_muova Sep 2012 #27
"what would you suggest" plagues me. IMO neither Obama nor Romney nor their advisers have a clue. jody Sep 2012 #10
This is patently false. The Muslim Brotherhood resoundingly lost in Libya. joshcryer Sep 2012 #11
"Libya elections: Muslim Brotherhood set to lead government" see jody Sep 2012 #12
"Muslim Brotherhood fell 'below expectations' in Libyan elections" joshcryer Sep 2012 #13
A country the size of Egypt should only have about 70 generals. n/t tabasco Sep 2012 #14
I have read that Egypt's military is considerably top-heavy, which may part of the motive here. bemildred Sep 2012 #15
let's guess how many of them are women! Skittles Sep 2012 #17
That'd be about right Posteritatis Sep 2012 #19
More might still be reasonable. sofa king Sep 2012 #21
Yeah, that's true. I was ballparking it off a guess of the number of brigades. Posteritatis Sep 2012 #24
U.S. Army has a lot of generals too Joey Liberal Sep 2012 #16
And that despite the codified limits Posteritatis Sep 2012 #20
Military Coup MagniPeter Sep 2012 #26
I am impressed. aquart Sep 2012 #18
In unrelated news, 70 Egyptian Army Colonels opened Swiss banks accounts yesterday. bluedigger Sep 2012 #23

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
1. That's a lot of stars
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 05:47 PM
Sep 2012

One retired general for every 13,000 or so personnel if you include the reserves. I wonder how many are still around, and whether the result's top-heavy or not.

 

jody

(26,624 posts)
2. The Muslim Brotherhood has tightened its control of Egypt and Libya. With US help they can add Syria
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 05:55 PM
Sep 2012

and Lebanon.

That would be a giant leap toward establishing Sharia law in the Middle East.

 

jody

(26,624 posts)
6. Agree "their right if they vote" iff all adults are allowed to vote their conscience and unalienable
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 06:30 PM
Sep 2012

rights of a minority are protected by the state including those specified in The Universal Declaration of Human Rights adopted in 1948.

obliviously

(1,635 posts)
7. I don't think the woman
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 06:44 PM
Sep 2012

of the country are voting to have their right to drive stripped away, to be locked in their own homes and to be treated like property.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
28. Who is Egypt is stripping away the rights of women??? It is NOT the Moslem Brotherhood
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 09:51 PM
Sep 2012

Egypt is a Sunni Islam Nation. One of the chief sources of Sunni sources on Mohammad is Aisha, his youngest wife. The Marriage between Aisha and Mohammad appears to be Political, she was the daughter of one of Mohammad's followers and the marriage was done to strengthen the relationship between the two (In fact Aisha's Father would succeed Mohammad as leaders of Islam at the death of Mohammad).

During Aisha’s entire life she was a strong advocate for the education of Islamic women especially in areas such as law and the teachings of Islam. Aisha, the mother of the Muslims, was known for establishing the first madrasah for women in her home. Attending Aisha’s classes varied from family relatives to orphaned children. Men also attended Aisha's classes, and a curtain simply separated the male and female students. One of her most mentioned and outstanding students was her nephew, Urwah, who eventually became one of the greatest scholars of his generation. Umrah bint Abdur was also one of Aisha’s famous women pupils who was not only regarded as a trustworthy narrator of the Hadith, but became Aisha’s secretary.

Aisha's scholarly intelligence and motherly figure allowed for important contributions in the emergence of Islam and an important dignitary to the Muslim women.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha

On the other hand, the Shiite hate Aisha (for the simple reason she opposed Ali as the successor of Mohammad, Shiite is translated into English as "Party of Ali&quot but they hold Mohammad's only daughter, Fatima, in high esteem, for she was also the wife of Ali (and in turn hated by Aisha, which has been one of the points of division between Shiite and Sunni Islam, i.e. two women are the centers of both Sunni and Shiite Islam).

The Shitte attitude to Fatima is tied in with her being the only child of Mohammad to actually bear children herself. While Mohammad was alive, Fatima tended to be in the background, but at his death, she demanded her inheritance, not just once, but at least twice, including interrupting the Successor of Mohammad as Caliph, while he was giving a speech in a Mosque. When her inheritance was refused, she refused to recognize Mohammad's successor as his successor. Her refusal to accept the new Caliph was her decision not her husband's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatima_bint_Muhammad
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shi%27a_view_of_Fatimah

Mohammad's relations with women were complex, his first wife, Khadīja bint Khuwaylid, he married at age 25 and lived with till her death when he turned 50. Mohammad did not have any other wives till she was dead, and then only for the last 12 years of his life.

More on Khadīja bint Khuwaylid:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khadijah_bint_Khuwaylid

Khadīja bint Khuwaylid was the only wife to bear Mohammand's children, his other wives seems to be more political marriages OR marriages to the widow of followers then anything else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad%27s_wives

As to the Moslem Brotherhood, while they want women to wear the "Viel", i.e. traditional arabic dress for women,

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/08/03/egypt.muslim.sisterhood/index.html?&hpt=hp_c2

The Moslem Brotherhood has even accepted the idea that women can serve in the cabinet, through NOT the Presidency of Egypt:

http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=28077
http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/brotherhood-sticks-ban-christians-and-women-presidency

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
8. It is sad, but we have not offered a believable alternative for Egyptians.
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 06:56 PM
Sep 2012

We sided with torturers and dictators in the view of the Egyptian people.

And our War on the people of Iraq did not give our benevolent language much credibility.

Many people in Egypt are well educated and liberal, but who did we support for decades? Folks like Musharraf.

I hope that the Egyptian people will take another look at their political leaders and support liberal ones. But we have only our own conservatives to blame for the horrible distrust that many Egyptians have for all that is American and Western. Because our conservatives, those among us who were obsessed with fighting socialism and Communism set in place our policy of supporting conservatives in Egypt. And ultimately, the real conservatives in Egypt are the Islamic extremists, so you may be right that shariah law is on its way.

But what would you suggest we do about it?

Fight another war? Insult them? Those are usually the conservative responses for every foreign policy issue.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
9. wasn't the military dictatorship kind of 'encouraged' by the US?
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 07:06 PM
Sep 2012

that was when it became obvious that Mubarak was going to have to step down and to keep Iran from becoming Egypt's new best friend

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
25. We like authoritarian governments, and aspire to be one ourselves.
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 09:02 AM
Sep 2012

Much easier to cut deals that way, no need to lead, you just give orders.

eppur_se_muova

(36,259 posts)
27. Just listen to our expert statesman, Dubya:
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 09:57 AM
Sep 2012

"You don't get everything you want. A dictatorship would be a lot easier." Describing what it's like to be governor of Texas.
(Governing Magazine 7/98)

-- From Paul Begala's "Is Our Children Learning?"

"I told all four that there are going to be some times where we don't agree with each other, but that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator," Bush joked.

-- CNN.com, December 18, 2000

"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question about it, " [Bush] said.

-- Business Week, July 30, 2001

 

jody

(26,624 posts)
10. "what would you suggest" plagues me. IMO neither Obama nor Romney nor their advisers have a clue.
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 07:28 PM
Sep 2012

I've traveled like so many others and seen poverty and starvation. I've seen slavery and near slavery of woman and poor in other countries in the name of religion and enough dead and destruction to make me ask why do humans exist?

I love to tweak the ultra religious by quoting from the Torah that Christians translated into the King James version as "And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart." Genesis 6:6

God may not make many mistakes but when she does it's monumental!

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
11. This is patently false. The Muslim Brotherhood resoundingly lost in Libya.
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 08:06 PM
Sep 2012

Libya still has its problems but the Muslim Brotherhood is not it.

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
13. "Muslim Brotherhood fell 'below expectations' in Libyan elections"
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 09:13 PM
Sep 2012
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/10/muslim-brotherhood-expectations-libyan-election

You're posting pre-election spin based on Tunisia and Egypt. Libya did not follow their lead and the Muslim Brotherhood was heavily marginalized in Libya thanks to the women who voted in numbers never before seen in the Muslim world.

edit: another link: National Forces Alliance wins more than double the seats of Muslim Brotherhood party, as final results confirmed: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/17/mahmoud-jibril-party-elections-libya

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_General_National_Congress_election,_2012

Total defeat in Libya for the Muslim Brotherhood. Libya had an entire year to set up revolutionary councils and spread the revolutionary spirit. Neither Tunisia or Egypt had that opportunity.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
15. I have read that Egypt's military is considerably top-heavy, which may part of the motive here.
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 09:31 PM
Sep 2012

And of course, it's also an opportunity to retire people whose loyalty to the new regime seems questionable.

This guy moves fast. Edit: politicians who move fast worry me.

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
19. That'd be about right
Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:41 PM
Sep 2012

In proportion to their population the Egyptian military's about as large as the American one, and could get away with being much smaller than it is. It's a half million now - a million if you include reservists - and seventy generals of different ranks would imply something in the quarter-million range instead.

Say what you will about the US military, but I do like the fact that there's limits on how many generals its armed forces can have actually written into the law. (The current limit's 498, three-quarters of whom can 'only' be one- or two-star officers, and only eighteen of which are full four-star generals.) I wonder if Egypt might see something similar in the next few years as people attempt to nail down civilian control of the armed forces.

sofa king

(10,857 posts)
21. More might still be reasonable.
Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:02 PM
Sep 2012

A look at their Wikipedia page suggests they have around 60 standing combat brigades organized into three armies, but it isn't a perfectly triangular organization and I can't guess the total number of combat generals without counting, which I ain't gonna do. That also assumes that brigades are commanded by brigadiers, which may not be so.

So the combat command structure alone might require at least 70 generals. If that doesn't include reserves, then it could be twice that. And then there is the air force and the navy, and the logistics, engineering, and administrative wings....

... It is amazing that they get anything done at all!

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
24. Yeah, that's true. I was ballparking it off a guess of the number of brigades.
Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:44 PM
Sep 2012

And militaries that evolve out of Warsaw Pact doctrines tend to be quite top-heavy. (Of course, again, as a Canadian, I don't have much room to comment on top-heavy armies.)

Egypt's army being around a million overall suggests a few hundred generals at various levels anyway, especially if they don't nudge older ones out the door or into odd positions. Given the army's history there they could probably stand to put at least seventy out to pasture though.

Joey Liberal

(5,526 posts)
16. U.S. Army has a lot of generals too
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 10:18 PM
Sep 2012

We have way too many generals and colonels and not enough grunts. No wonder we can't win a war anymore.

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
20. And that despite the codified limits
Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:43 PM
Sep 2012

I keep hearing the US has more colonels than machinegunners.

Of course, as a citizen of a country whose military has more generals than combat aircraft I can't snark too hard. And I do like that you guys have managed to put actual legal limits on the number of generals, even if the result is still top-heavy at the lower levels.

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