Cherokee Nation: Warren's use of DNA test 'inappropriate,' 'wrong'

[Jose Garcia]

Source: The Hill

The Cherokee Nation on Monday afternoon called out Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) for attempting to claim Native American heritage by releasing the results of a DNA test.

The test, conducted by a Stanford University professor Carlos Bustamante, showed that Warren has a Native American ancestor going back six to 10 generations ago, making her somewhere between 1/32nd and 1/1,024th American Indian.

The Cherokee Nation in a statement said using a DNA test to claim connection with a tribal nation is "inappropriate" and "wrong."

"Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong," said Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin Jr. "It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is proven."

Read more: https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/senate/411521-cherokee-nation-warrens-use-of-dna-test-inappropriate-wrong%3famp

[Squinch]

1. Whether the Cherokee Nation accepts DNA test results as an indicator of whether someone

has indigenous ancestors or not, DNA testing does show whether someone has indigenous ancestors or not.

[grantcart]

46. Their interest is maintaining control of tribal census

The more that they can restrict the census the more money existing census holders have of gambling revenue

This has nothing to do with Warren but the hundreds of people who are trying to get on a tribal census.

[obamanut2012]

70. Tell that to the legal black freemen members they kicked off the rolls

Because of greed.

[sfwriter]

83. I thought the same.

[grantcart]

84. That was my point

Except it isn't just the black Freeman



Now to be fair most tribes (don't know about Cherokee) require a minimum residency requirement to get dividend check which is understandable.

[Blue_Tires]

141. +1

[dembotoz]

152. follow the money..if a cheek swab can get me annual gambling proceeds...hell yes swab away

mouth cheek butt cheek,,,,any cheek you want

[yurbud]

120. I don't think Warren plans to claim anything other than some distant ancestry

[Lithos]

130. The DNA test does not prove her ancestry is Cherokee

It could be one of a number of other indigenous tribes. The markers came back very broad for just Native American. Who is to say she's not Choctaw, or Chickasaw, or one of any other tribes? While her family history says Cherokee, many people claimed Cherokee because of the size and awareness people had vs the other tribes. Ie, you are "Native American" so you are Cherokee.

I get that he Indian tribes today have a very specific and legal definition of who belongs to their specific rolls. However, I'm sad that they are being jerks about accepting this rather scientific proof she has some Native American ancestry in her heritage. In essence, they are denying her birth right. Even if she were interested in claiming Cherokee ancestry, which she is not, the burden would prevent her from claiming explicit Cherokee ancestry which I believe is ok with her.

This could be a win-win, but this jerk has put his blinders on.

[Squinch]

138. Did she ever say that the test did sat that? Well, no.So what is your point.

[Lithos]

145. Point is the Cherokee Elder is being a dick...

And you are right - she never said the test said she was Cherokee. That's just family lore. She said the test said "Native American" which is about as accurate as it can get, especially given the number of generations back.

[fantase56]

2. OFFS. nt

[janterry]

133. +1000

n/t

[Adrahil]

147. You got that right. NT

[agincourt]

3. Wonder if the vote suppression is North Dakota is wrong too?

Wonder if Repigs blowing out of piehole about her heritage was wrong too? Defending herself was wrong but those assholes pushing the narrative were NOT wrong? Sounds like a talking Trump apple to me.

[Vinnie From Indy]

4. Fuck this jackass named "Chuck Hoskins"

Who the fuck is he to claim ownership over anyone's lineage?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

24. Seriously!!

[CountAllVotes]

154. He's probably 1/32nd Cherokee or some such thing himself

There are few Cherokees left that are full-blooded.

In fact, John Ross, from the Trail of Tears scenario was 1/8th Cherokee and he was the head of the tribe during this time (c. 1840).

[NanceGreggs]

5. Just saw this guy on CNN earlier ...

... and he is way off base.

Warren took a DNA test for the sole purpose of confirming her ethnicity, and the family stories she'd been told about her background.

It has nothing to do with "laying claim" to any connection with a tribal nation.

[still_one]

7. Of course that is the real story, but not one that The Hill would push because that would not dis or

divide Democrats

[leftofcool]

26. He is a tribal Elder, Nance

This is Cherokee law and honor, not what we think, but what they think.

[LiberalFighter]

36. Until Elizabeth Warren attempts to apply for Cherokee status he should STFU.

He does not have any authority until then. It appears that he was trying to stir something up that he has no jurisdiction.

[Coventina]

43. It's called science. She has a Native American ancestor.

Unless she is demanding tribal rights and privileges, there's nothing for them to complain about.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

103. That's right. It was done to win a bet. Nothing more. The 1 million don ivan refuses to pay

to the tribes seems to be totally forgotten. Seems the indians may be just a scosh scared of old numb nuts. Slapping around EW doesnt seem like the correct thing to do.

[NanceGreggs]

54. This has nothing to do with what they think.

Anyone discovering Native American ancestry through DNA testing has the right to state the fact of that finding.

Chuck Hoskin Jr. stated that "using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong."

Warren is not "laying claim" to any benefit, privilege, or official recognition of her ancestry under tribal law. She is merely stating the fact that her DNA test revealed Native American as part of her background.

Mr. Hoskin seems to be stating that if someone finds evidence of such ethnicity, they are prohibited from ever saying so without his permission.

I think we can agree that he has no right to prohibit anyone from revealing their ethnicity under any law, including tribal law.

[George II]

97. I found out about five years ago that along with being an American (born in Brooklyn 70 yrs ago)....

....I am a Canadian citizen due to my mother's ancestry.

I don't expect to be permitted to gain any benefit from it other than pride for being a citizen of Canada, as of today a MUCH more tolerable country than the US.

I doubt that Justin Trudeau will go on television and claim that I'm not Canadian.

[Ms. Toad]

142. Not quite the same thing.

Your citizenship is derived from a specific person's citizenship - and the rules of citizenship that extend down to you.

The DNA test chief is complaining about does not tie Waren to a specific person - it is a generic assessment of whether her DNA suggests she has native american ancestry.

The nations I'm aware of tie membership to the ability to trace your lineage to someone who was a member in the period during which the rules were set. Your situation would be more like this - except that you likely traced person to person, rather than measure by how much Canadian DNA yours included.

As I mentioned in another thread - my sister's membership in her nation has been shut of by her vindictive birth mother. My sister cannot register with the nation becuase (as long as her mother is alive), her acknowledgement can only come through her mother (not a blood test determining maternity, not through a generic DNA test establishing she is 50% native american).

From what I can gather, you are talking about the former kind of ancestry tracing (recognized but limited in the native nations I'm aware of), not the latter - which is more of a conversation starter than anything creating legal rights.

[obamanut2012]

71. That is not what it is at all

[jberryhill]

77. Under Cherokee law and tradition, does the dealer have to hit or stand on 16?

[Raster]

81. Ding! Ding! Ding!

[Raster]

80. Senator Warren HAS NOT tried to claim tribal status or benefits...

...and only sought to verify her heritage. Senator Warren verifying her DNA has nothing to do with Cherokee "law and honor," and EVERYTHING to do with the Tribal government seeking to limit anyone they deem not Indian enough.

[George II]

94. Then he should confine his concerns to the Cherokee nation. Her heritage traces back to the...

...Tsenacommacah nation.

[grantcart]

47. Seec46 above

[Oneironaut]

139. Doesn't matter. CNN got their outrage ratings.

No one cares what’s true anymore. They want the embellished version of everything, which tells them that they should be angry and why.

The MSM is all entertainment. It’s only slightly better than TMZ. Cable news is a flashy product full of lies that is more about entertaining people than informing them.

[still_one]

6. Two stories from The Hill to either dis or divide Democrats. The first one was that

Stormy Daniels lost her case, and that "Democrats believe Avenatti" is hurting Democrats chance at the midterems

The second is this one.

Gee, I guess I don't need to buy the national enquirer anymore

[George II]

10. Day by day The Hill is becoming more like Breitbart.

[still_one]

13. That is true George, and it isn't just The Hill

[George II]

8. She wasn't claiming to be a member of any nation. What does this guy have to say about....

....trump spending years calling her "Pocahontas" in a derisive way? He's more concerned about this test than that blatant ethnic slur.

By the way, Pocahontas wasn't a member of the Cherokee nation, she was a member of the Tsenacommacah nation.

[Yellowdog88]

9. Somebody please...

Post this guy's condemnation of 45 when he hosted code talkers and invoked the Pocahontas slur.

I'm sure it's out there.

[George II]

12. Here you go:

[brush]

45. Sounds like somebody got paid.

[mr_lebowski]

11. Wow, brother ... it's not like she's trying to license a casino, nor to get 'benefits'

of any kind that may be conferred by 'membership' in your tribe.

Other than to get the dipshit POTUS to stop mockingly call her (thus denigrating all Natives, indirectly) 'Pocohontas' all the damn time.

I guess it's not so important that this shitbird POTUS heads the party trying to disenfranchise your Native brothers and sisters in places like N. Dakota? You'd rather 'take his side' in something like this? Same party as the one Duncan Hunter's family takes advantage of your people from? Any words for him, while you're at it?

BTW, have you even CHECKED the records you're speaking of, to see if there is one of her ancestors? If not ... maybe there is?

Lastly, claiming 'some Cherokee Blood' ... not the same thing as 'claiming to be Cherokee', btw.

[Ferrets are Cool]

14. One of two "chucks" that

I wish would just STFU.

[RHMerriman]

15. Well said ... worth asking, does Mr. Hoskin have any comment on GOP Leader McCarthy's brother-in-law

Well said ... worth asking, does Mr. Hoskin have any comment on GOP Leader McCarthy's brother-in-law using a questionable self-identification of Native American ethnicity to qualify as a minority-owned business and both pursue and win federal contracts?

Not to get into whataboutism, but seems like there are actual issue$ for Mr. Hoskin, in his role as a NA leader, might wish to be concerned with...

[left-of-center2012]

16. making her somewhere between 1/32nd and 1/1,024th American Indian

[alittlelark]

17. Uh, yeah .... quite divisive....

[Amimnoch]

18. Perhaps they could muster outrage for

Perhaps they could likewise muster some outrage for the constant, continuous “Pocahontas”, ?

Or, on this exact same subject, the President’s call to TAKE this test as proof? Let’s be clear here, she isn’t using the test as a means to prove heritage, or claim benefits from heritage. This test was taken as a result of a DIRECT CHALLENGE from a sitting president, and said orange Hitler is the one who qualified this test as an acceptible result in HIS own words.

[left-of-center2012]

19. About 'The Hill', from the Media Bias website

(For those saying The Hill is like Breitbart)

"Overall, we rate The Hill slightly Left-Center biased based on story selection
and High for factual reporting."

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-hill/

[LanternWaste]

122. You're certainly doing your part to see this one stuck to walls.

[left-of-center2012]

144. Correcting misconceptions that the Hill is like Breibart

Thank you for your support.

[Mike Nelson]

20. Apology to the Cherokee...

… but I would be proud to have some Native American heritage!

[Bradshaw3]

21. By the Cherokee's rules there is a chance she could be listed on the tribe's membership rolls

The report said that she could have an ancestor going back six generations which, accoridng to the rules listed in the link, make it possible though unlikely she could be eligible for tribal membership. The ancestor would have to have been on the Dawes' Final Rolls, as stated below, in 1907 so they would have to have been old at that time, at least by my non-scientific reckoning.

"Cherokee Nation citizenship law is set by tribal law. There is no minimum blood quantum required for citizenship. Tribal citizenship requires that you have at least one direct ancestor listed on the Dawes Final Rolls, a federal census of those living in the Cherokee Nation that was used to allot Cherokee land to individual citizens in preparation for Oklahoma statehood in 1907."

http://www.cherokee.org/Services/Tribal-Citizenship/Citizenship

BTW, I lived in Oklahoma and knew several people - some of them blonde-haired and blue-eyed - who were on the Choctaw rolls and eligible for free medical care, etc.

[ooky]

57. This is what Republicans want everyone to talk about instead of

health care, Medicare, Social Security, Tax Scam, etc.. They are thrilled that this bullying of Elizabeth Warren has gone off the rails against a viable POTUS candidate which has always been their objective. They love to get their smear campaigns going against our most visible candidates.

She has never claimed anything, of course, and was trying to push back on classic Donald Trump bullying, which is all the hell this is. They will go on with their bullying as we all well know. So whenever it comes up from now on just call out their bullying and move the conversation back to the things Republicans don't want to talk about.

[nini]

22. Mexicans show as Native Americans also

Every Mexican I know loved that

[a la izquierda]

72. Then you must know some enlightened Mexicans.

Racism is a real and serious issue down here.

[beachbum bob]

23. Lol, she isn't laying claim to be an Cherokee...only claim is ancestry...

Chill out

[WhoWoodaKnew]

132. Exactly

[leftofcool]

25. As much as I love Liz, I agree with my Elders on this

It is a dishonor to the People to use DNA testing to try to prove NA ancestry. Here is why. Anyone can use DNA testing to prove some NA blood going back 8-10 generations. Certifiable proof of Cherokee blood is on the Dawes Rolls only which is set by Cherokee law only. No one has the right to claim tribal affiliation, tribal blood, or tribal anything unless your ancestor is on the rolls. That is the way and the laws set by the Nations, not by white folks.

[delisen]

32. she is not claiming to be descended from the someone on the Dawes rolls is she?

She has the right to publish her DNA test, does she not?

How would she be interfering with Cherokee law?

I think we all have the right to speak freely.

[leftofcool]

35. She is free to do as she likes.

My Elders are free to feel dishonored.

[delisen]

40. so be it.

[LiberalFighter]

42. I suppose he was not dishonored

when Trump referred to Warren as Pocahontas?

[brush]

48. My grandmother is half Native American. She doesn't mind and neither do I.

Warren is trying shut trump's vile mouth and I like it.

[True Blue American]

59. Elders?

So far it is only one man.

[leftofcool]

60. Not exactly

[jberryhill]

87. The only two native American Congressional Reps are Republicans from Oklahoma

http://www.indianz.com/News/2016/08/12/second-native-american-in-congress-backs.asp

The only two enrolled tribal citizens in Congress are from Oklahoma. Both happen to be members of the Republican Party.

They are also parting ways with Indian Country and backing Donald Trump, their party's presidential nominee. Rep. Tom Cole (R-Oklahoma), a member of the Chickasaw Nation, already said he supports the controversial real estate mogul and now Rep. Markwayne Mullin (R-Oklahoma), a member of the Cherokee Nation, is doing the same.

This "Elder" is another local red-state political hack in the reddest of red states.

[True Blue American]

93. Thank you.

[LanternWaste]

123. People are also free to feel that two plus two equals twenty-two.

[LiberalFighter]

34. Was there anything in her statement in which she was claiming to that degree? No!

She was providing DNA to show she has Native American blood.

[humbled_opinion]

27. Why is this issue even

taking up any oxygen, talk healthcare, immigration, marriage equality, fixing the prison system etc.. enough of the B.S. issues.

[DoctorJoJo]

28. I'm Generally Pretty Pro-Native American, But I Call BS Here!

What do they want, for the tribal witch doctor to taste her urine or something?

[leftofcool]

29. Seriously?

First of all, the term "tribal witch doctor" is not only racist it is offensive. Secondly, do some research on the Cherokee Nation, the Dawes Rolls, Trail of Tears etc... Third, what Native Americans want, is to be honored, nothing more, nothing less. Fourth, until you know what you are talking about, be quiet.

[EllieBC]

91. Do not be shocked.

As soon as you displease some people they immediately throw you under the bus. Ask any of us who are Jewish. We are at best useful tokens to some on the left.

[LexVegas]

33. Jesus Fucking Christ. Take this shit elsewhere. nt

[catsudon]

39. wow

that is kind of offensive....

[LiberalFighter]

30. Chuck Hoskin Jr is off base.

Did he even understand what the test showed? Apparently not. I did not see anything saying definitively stating she had Cherokee blood. Only that she has a connection to Native American. And apparently he is also trying to talk on behalf of other tribal nations.

I am questioning his motives.

[leftofcool]

31. He is an Elder, you have no right or authority to question.

[LiberalFighter]

38. I have a right to challenge when his authority exceeds his jurisdiciton.

I agree he is an Elder. But only for the Cherokee Nation.
Warren was not making any attempt to claim any material benefit under his control.

[jberryhill]

79. Warren is a US senator

And as a US citizen I will opine on any local politician’s statement I deem fit in whatever manner I deem fit.

Not a SINGLE COUNTY in Oklahoma ever went for Obama. I don’t expect their elected officials to be any different.

And, please, go ahead and make a stupid assumption about my ancestry....

[ProfessorGAC]

82. Read Your Own Post Title

Are you kidding? He has a status that is beyond reproach? How does one achieve such a status? Answer: Nobody does achieve a status that makes anything they saw immune from criticism.

[LanternWaste]

126. What specifically leads you to that conclusion?

"you have no right or authority to question..."

What specifically leads you to that conclusion? And does it apply to all government spokespeople, or merely in this instance? If the latter, what is the relevant difference?

[JCMach1]

37. Pretty damn arrogant, some of us found out about our NA heritage ONLY from research

DNA and historical because our people were genocided and forced to repress our heritage...

Our culture was stolen from us...

In recent years doing genealogy research, I found I was much more NA than I ever imagined (didn't think I was at all).

[Kaleva]

41. It's a sad day when DUers are slamming a tribal elder about tribal customs and laws

White people know best I guess.

[LexVegas]

44. +1. nt

[grantcart]

50. lol this has zero to do with tribal customs or Elizabeth Warren

This is 100% about not giving Cherokees who aren't on the official tribal census a mechanism to claim enough Cherokee blood to qualify for a cut in the gambling revenues.

Every tribe has regulations about who gets on the official census which can include both percent of blood relations and residency. Unfortunately there are lots of clan divisions in tribes where one clan gets control and eliminates others off the clan. It can mean hundreds of thousands of dollars per family and those that are in control don't want to lose control to other factions so they don't want outside factors, like DNA tests to gain a foot hold.

Exacerbating the problem is that gambling revenues always decline after a casino opening, partly due to exhausting a pent up demand and partly to other casinos opening in the area.

The Cherokee Harrah's just had a $ 600 million up lift and yearly dividend payments are still declining. For that reason they don't want to add more people to the census and see their revenue decline even further.

https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/local/2014/03/27/revenue-growth-slows-cherokee-casino/6971123/

“There’s only so much gambling that can be done, only so much disposable income,” Meister said. “You’re adding more and more gambling competing for the same dollars.”

There are 468 Indian gambling facilities in 28 states, the report said. But there are no casinos in states surrounding North Carolina. The Cherokee casino draws 3.6 million people a year.

The casino was helped in 2012, when the tribe was given permission by the state to introduce live table games — blackjack, craps and roulette.

But there could be competition.

The Catawba Indian Nation is trying to develop a casino that promises to bring 4,000 jobs to a site off Interstate 85 near Kings Mountain in Cleveland County. The Catawbas want to build a gambling hall after South Carolina laws blocked the tribe’s effort to build a casino in its home state. The tribe continues to challenge the laws

Not only are the Cherokees trying to control and limit their census (which is perfectly legitimate) they are using their power to block other tribes from opening more casinos in the surrounding area.

The comments about DNA are not about customs but about limiting the number of people who can claim to be on the census and their method for proving it, which of course Senator Warren is not doing. If they go along with her DNA claim then it could have an impact on others who are bringing legal action to get a piece of the action.

[Kaleva]

109. Living near two reservations, IMHO, I think it best to stay out of this.

[LanternWaste]

128. Other than telling white people what to say, you're doing a splendid job of staying out of it.

Other than telling white people what to say, you're doing a splendid job of staying out of it.

[shellyleit]

53. Everyone has the right to know their genetic history

And she doesn't want to join their tribe. That wasn't the point.

[Hekate]

58. It's a sad day when a Tribal Elder buys into Trump's latest Birther smear, & I mean that.

Divide divide divide.

Senator Warren has claimed nothing more that what millions of us claim: not that we are Native American, but that we are Americans with a distant NA in our lineage. As far as I can determine, my own teeny-tiny strand of DNA dates back over 300 years. It's mentioned in a list of "begats" collected from family Bibles that I saw at my grandma's when I was 13, and there is no doubt more in my late mother's very carefully researched genealogy.

But for crying out loud, to say that a 17th or 18th century ancestor having married a woman who was "part Pequot" makes no more of a claim on anything than to say I am a descendent of Charlemagne (I'm not).

Nor has Senator Warren.

[leftofcool]

61. + 1

[jberryhill]

78. It's a sad day when we give a shit about red-state local politicians' opinions

Because that’s what this is.

Let’s not pretend that the Oklahoma Cherokee are some sort of liberal voting block in deep red Oklahoma, because they are not.

You can indulge in whatever “noble savage” fantasy stereotypes you like, but this Creek descendant isn’t buying.

[Kaleva]

104. Nbody here is arguing that the Oklahoma Cherokees are a liberal voting block

Doesn't matter if they are or not as that has no bearing on the issue being discussed.

You may attempt to denigrate Chuck Hoskin Jr. as some kind of "local politician" but he's the Cherokee Nation Secretary of State.

[jberryhill]

108. Yeah, and Rep. Markwayne Mullin is a Cherokee elected official too

And, also an asshole.

So what?

I do not owe anyone's opinion any degree of respect because of what their ancestry is. Being an asshole is an equal opportunity gig.

[Kaleva]

110. And what does that have to do with what Cherokee SOS Chuck Hoskin Jr. said?

Nothing.

[jberryhill]

112. What Hoskin Jr. said is bullshit

And you know it is bullshit.

He is responding to the FAKE notion that Warren is trying to make some sort of membership claim. It is a dishonest and false framing of what is going on, and you know that.

That makes Hoskin's statement obvious partisan hackery, and not a reflection of any actual reality in terms of the context in which she made these results known.

If someone wants to get a DNA test and publicize the results, they are free to do so whether this duly-elected jackass likes it or not.

I think there is an element of the reaction at DU which reflects an expectation that Native Americans are supposed to conform to some set of political preferences as a group. That is, of course, patronizing.

[Kaleva]

116. Being white, it's not for me to judge what they think is important or not.

The more this is argued about, the more it divides and maybe that's the purpose.

The best thing to do is to just let it go.

Warren will still remain Senator and Trump will continue to use this issue to fire up his base and to mock Warren. Warren's release of the DNA results just gave Trump more ammo.

[jberryhill]

117. Being human, I can smell political bullshit when it is nearby

[Kaleva]

119. The enemy is Trump and not leaders of the Cherokee Nation.

[Coventina]

121. When they side with Trump they become my enemy.

YMMV.

[Kaleva]

124. Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin Jr. also criticized Trump

So why do you think he sided with Trump and is now your enemy?

[Coventina]

127. I'm basing that on what I've learned about him on this thread.

I'm willing to entertain that this information might be inaccurate, but I tend to trust my fellow DUers.

[Kaleva]

149. You'd probably not like Hillary if you based your opinion on her by what DUers said back in 2008

It's always best to read the full article linked to instead of just some excerpts posted in the OP.

[Coventina]

150. I did read the full article. Didn't change my opinion of him. N/T

[EllieBC]

92. It happens all the time.

Any minority group. First Nations, AA, Latino, Jewish, Asian, Muslim...the white Saviors and gatekeepers will throw you under the bus in a heartbeat if you don’t do and say as they want.

[Squinch]

101. Except none of that is happening. But nice try.

[Kaleva]

106. There's several posts here doing such.

There's a thread in GD now doing it.

[treestar]

146. That is not called for.

It is science If he wants to feel “dishonored “ and announce it to the world he can do it. And we can say we think that is taking it too far.

[Demonaut]

49. sorry but they're wrong

on edit, i'm 21% Native American

[RandySF]

51. This whole thing is ridiculous

[shellyleit]

52. She didn't do it for them

She did it for herself, and to prove DJT wrong. Everyone has the right to do that.

[Hekate]

55. Oh FFS I am sick of this. She never claimed tribal status and has lived her life as a white woman...

...with a distant NA ancestor, as millions of Americans do.

I have no respect for people who buy into Trump's latest Birtherism slur without knowing the first thing about the woman herself -- and that includes the spokesman for the Cherokee Nation.

Oh, and Obama's birth certificate from Hawai'i is totally fake, because Trump told us so.

Christ on a trailer hitch, will we ever learn?

[DURHAM D]

56. I miss Wilma Mankiller. nt

[leftofcool]

62. I do too!

[JCanete]

63. It feels like this tribal leader doesn't udnerstnad the context in which Warren's claimed heritage

has been used as a tool to discredit her, and that the only capitalizing being done here is shutting those critics the fuck up already. I'm not sure I get the beef.

[JonLP24]

66. I wonder too if he is missing out on the context

[maxrandb]

74. Oh, I think he understands

but I also think he's a Retrumplican, as evidenced by his silence regarding the Pocahontas smear.

Just another Retrumplican trying to equate taking a DNA test to using a racist smear so we can all get gaslighted and play a never ending game of "both-sidism"

Just another example of how we've not only smashed through the Looking Glass...we're using the broken shards of glass to slit our wrists

[jberryhill]

85. The check cleared

[SunSeeker]

64. Warren is NOT "using a DNA test to claim connection with a tribal nation."

She is just proving she has Native American ancestry. Chuck Hoskins is misrepresenting what is going on here. She's not trying to claim she's part of the Cherokee Nation, or any other Native American nation. She said that who is a member is up to tribal governments and that she respects that.

[JonLP24]

65. She can't win no matter what she does on this issue

[Voices Of Reason]

67. Why now???

My question is why she is bringing this up before an election, that she?, is not running in???. I know all politicians have an angle as to what they do and when, but if she wants to run for president, she surely has enough name recognition and stature for this. I hope she does run.

[RandiFan1290]

73. Warren is running for reelection to the Senate.

Welcome back to DU

[YOHABLO]

68. The Republicans think they have something detrimental about her that will stick.

It's really a ridiculous discussion in that we've got bigger fish to fry here. I think she got tired of having them deride her about the issue and I'm taken aback by the Cherokee Nations statement. Whose side are THEY ON!

[obamanut2012]

69. One of the very Native groups that tend to vote straight R

Especially in NC and OK.

This is also a group who broke their generations-long agreement and kicked their freemen black members off the rolls.

Notice they don't attack TRump.

They can stfu.

[DURHAM D]

75. Totally

[CountAllVotes]

115. +1

It is plain wrong the way the Cherokees dumped the Freedmen from their rolls

It is two-pronged IMO.

Part of it is indicative of a racist mindset and the other is all about money.

Before the casinos became part of the picture, the Cherokees would take many people into the tribe as they could get. Many were not necessarily of Cherokee descent, i.e., persons that were adopted by a member of the tribe were taken in. The belief at that time (c. 1990 or so) was that there was power in numbers, hence the reason for broadening their criteria for tribal affiliation.

I contacted them myself after finding my grandmother (she was orphaned) on the Dawes Roll c. 1920.

I was baffled by this find so I called Talequa, OK to ask a few questions.

The woman I spoke with on the phone was rather rude and said to me, "Lots of people are claiming to be Indian these days!". The phone went dead = end of conversation.

I find this to be a disgusting situation as many of the Freedmen were on the Trail of Tears as they had no way to get out of the places they were living so that is why they ended up on the Trail of Tears. The same thing applies to others that ended up on the Trail of Tears; they had nowhere to go and no way to get to nowhere!

This whole thing is rather gross IMO.

I think that Elizabeth Warren likely knew the results would show as they did. Perhaps a member of her immediate family had their DNA tested and the small amount of native blood showed up so she went for it to intimidate tRump.

I don't think it is a great idea to use ANY particular group to gain self-worth or identity but many do just that in order to attempt to get on the rolls and obtain any other benefits that may come with it or dare I suggest even political gain.

This should not be a political issue but it has become just that.

[raging moderate]

76. It is the right wing Republicons who keep bringing it up.

Last edited Tue Oct 16, 2018, 09:29 AM - Edit history (1)

It is the right wing Republicons who insisted that Elizabeth Warren MUST get a DNA test and publish the results. She was only chatting about her family, not claiming any Native American affiliation. I am sure she will be happy to drop the subject as soon as they do. Please, will the Cherokee Nation ask the right wing Republicons to shut up about it? Maybe the Trumpkins will listen to THEM. You never know.

[blue-wave]

86. I would expect this kind of reaction

from the tRump gang. Not a Native-American leader. Can it be that there are some tRump supporters in the Native-American community?

[jberryhill]

88. Well, duh, the only Native Americans in Congress are Oklahoma Republican Trump Humpers

http://www.indianz.com/News/2016/08/12/second-native-american-in-congress-backs.asp

The only two enrolled tribal citizens in Congress are from Oklahoma. Both happen to be members of the Republican Party.

They are also parting ways with Indian Country and backing Donald Trump, their party's presidential nominee. Rep. Tom Cole (R-Oklahoma), a member of the Chickasaw Nation, already said he supports the controversial real estate mogul and now Rep. Markwayne Mullin (R-Oklahoma), a member of the Cherokee Nation, is doing the same.

Can we please dispense with the patronizing Noble Savage bullshit and accept the fact that people are people?

And, in Oklahoma, the overwhelming majority of those people support Trump.

[blue-wave]

89. Go Figure

Another example of individuals working against their own people. There are obviously puddles of tainted Kool-Aid and those drinking from them, throughout the country.

Thanks for the research and quick response.

[Kingofalldems]

90. Not really a good try there.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

96. Honest question - why/in what context did she bring this up in the first place, and why is it of any

more significance than if she was 3% German, Greek, Azerbhajan, Tibetan, or anything else? I certainly don't have a problem w genetic testing or anything but if she is claiming some kind of authority or status based on native heritage then yeah some native americans might be a little touchy about that.

[ProfessorGAC]

98. PINO Said She Was Lying About Her Family History

She did it to shut him up.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

111. Yes I know that - I mean why was her family history and 1 distant relative

even a matter of public discourse in the first place? Why is it of any significance? Did she bring it up herself and in what context?

I have no idea what Hillary Clinton's family history is - and don't really care. Why is it of any importance to Ms. Warren that we know or believe that she have a distant native Am ancestor?

Bear with me, Im just being devils advocate here seeing if I can understand where the elder was coming from - I don't know if its the dna test alone that's offensive but the element of someone publicly claiming bragging rights based on having native Am ancestry (if that's whats going on) and profiting from that in some way (either rmaterially or otherwise).

[jberryhill]

113. You seem to have walked into the middle of the movie, demanding to know what is going on

You could, with the help of the internet, catch up on the long backstory here.

[ProfessorGAC]

114. She Brought It Up Once Before As A Statement of Pride

Nothing more was really made of it until PINO started babbling about her being a liar.

The elder comes from a council that is DEEP red and votes as a consistent R bloc. So, this statement is just political nonsense to take a shot at a dem.

[Paladin]

99. Bad call, Cherokee Nation.

trump and his thugs now get to run wild with your criticism of Senator Warren. How much has the trump regime done for you lately?

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

100. fyi - white people expropriating or exploiting native Am culture/spirituality is a thing - ranging

from outright fraud (academics whove faked being indian, fake Indian spiritual practitioners/authors etc.) to the more benign (profiting either materially or otherwise from claiming native heritage ). Its particularly offensive to some native americans because after so much was taken so much from them - now their spirituality/heritage is being taken and profited from. And from their point of view, apparently theres a lot more of it going on than we non-Indians might imagine. Not sure what other factors are involved but that could be one aspect of this statement from the elder.

.

[kimbutgar]

102. I wonder if it is a Cherokee nation repuke group putting this out this statement?

[jberryhill]

107. Oklahoma is as red a state as they come

The only Cherokee member in Congress is a Trump supporter.

Why does this surprise anyone - they are local politicians in, surprise.....

[andym]

105. Cherokee elder can only speak for his tribe

but not for all of the others. Each tribe can have one or many spokesman and can accept as native American who they want to.

Moreover, what the spokesman may or may not understand is that using DNA and then heritage sites to compare distant cousins, it should be possible to track down a person's actual ancestor in many cases (just like the Golden State killer was caught because of his 3rd and 4th cousins' DNA). But even if science proves that a person, such was Warren, has a named ancestor or relative on the Dawes final rolls, will the Cherokees still deny him/her? Perhaps, because there will be too many new additions to the official tribe. This is a scenario that will come up frequently in the future as more and more people get tested and put their DNA on heritage sites.

[Bengus81]

118. Bet there's a HELL of a lot more behind this guy........

He should be telling Trump to STFU and applauding Warren for embracing her Indian heritage enough to take SHIT from an Orange hair POS "leader" and willing to take a DNA test to shut his ass up and get a million $$$ for an Indian charity.

This clown is BS,and I'll bet in the coming days something big will be announced about him.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

125. Very disappointed the Cherokee Nation chooses to disregard the content

Entirely.

This reminds me of the twisting of #metoo when Kirsten Gillibrand used the energy of Women’s Lives against a not very evil man (Al Franken). The result was a terrible blow to the best of the Democrats in the Senate.

Similarly, the Cherokee Nation is doing themselves and us all a real disservice in this case by focusing on purity rhetoric to slime Elizabeth Warren for a not very evil personal fact about her, rather than the truly evil bigot who slimes all Native American Nations regularly for political vendetta points.

[mountain grammy]

134. Exactly! Well said!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

140. 💙

What is up with them that they can’t see, Senator Warren was directly defending herself against Native American slurs thrown at her by trump and the rest of the evil echo chamber! It wasn’t some gratuitous political bloviation.

[mountain grammy]

151. It's hard for me to understand where they're coming from on this.

Hi Blanche..

[tenderfoot]

129. Divisive bee ess

eom

[The Wizard]

131. When are the

administrators going to shut down this thread as divisive?

[Runningdawg]

135. Speaking as a card carrying member of the Cherokee tribe

IMO they should have stayed the hell out of it. Completely. Only IF she applied for benefits should it have been discussed and then only among the tribe, behind closed doors. The only people a blood quantum matters to are bureaucrats.

[lark]

136. Grr, thanks a fucking lot.

She was proving she had Cherokee ancestry, not that she is a member of a tribe. This is just pure stupidity and wonder if it's because she's a woman and they would have no problem if Lyndsey Graham did this and they didn't complain about Trump saying he wanted yo personally test her.

[mainer]

137. By attacking Warren, they're giving Trump permission to use "Pocahontas"

Are they really going to support Trump over Warren?

[hunter]

143. My wife has substantial Native American heritage...

... but she was born in Los Angeles not of any Indian nation.

My wife has worked for Indian Health Services and her heritage has been well respected by the people she has served, but that's as far as it goes. Culturally my wife embraces her Indian, just as she quietly endured the "Pocahontas" taunts in middle school, but she has never claimed to represent Native American culture.

A daughter-in-law, and one of my nieces (who was adopted by my brother and his fractionally Native American ex-wife) are dual citizens of U.S.A. and tribal "First Nations" governments (as per the respectful Canadian nomenclature) yet this never comes up as a political issue in our hyper-political dinner table family discussions.

There's no splitting of hairs who is most Indian, or white boy like me allied among us.

Se how does it become an issue about Elizabeth Warren?

Looks to me her opponents are just stirring shit.

[ileus]

148. I know maybe 5 or 6 individuals that have paid out bucks for these type tests.

And somewhere down the very vague list is always the 1-5% NA...I believe everyone that has ancestry going back 100 or so years in America will have some percentage of Native American in their blood.

I always tell everyone I'm Native American because my Grandmother on my Mums side was supposed to be 1/4 something but I honestly can't remember. I always tell my school aged kids to put Native American on any and all questions asking about race hopefully they can score college scholarships of at least favoritism of some sort.

[GatoGordo]

153. Trump taunted her and she bit

How many times do we make that mistake?

Growing up, the neighbor kid taunted me and my siblings, saying that our Dad wasn't our Dad, and that our Mom was a slut. It used to send me into rage. Finally, my Dad said to the kid, "STFU, you little piece of shit", and he did... for about 0.004 seconds. It then continued on for YEARS. Only because we acknowledge the little prick. He had gotten under our skin and he now knew it.

Ignore the MF. He is a schoolyard bully and once you start defending yourself by acknowledging their verbal onslaught, they dig all the harder. Best to keep questioning Trumps intellect and sanity. Which is something he cannot defend.