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Judi Lynn

(161,405 posts)
Wed Oct 17, 2018, 11:55 PM Oct 2018

Trump takes aim at Cuba, holds Havana responsible for Venezuelan crisis

Source: McClatchy


BY FRANCO ORDOÑEZ

fordonez@mcclatchydc.com
October 17, 2018 04:04 PM

Updated 6 hours 33 minutes ago

WASHINGTON
The White House plan to turn up the pressure on Cuba for its role in what a senior administration official on Wednesday said was its efforts to subvert democracy in Venezuela and propping up President Nicolás Maduro.

The senior administration official said Maduro would be out of power if it wasn’t for the Cuban intelligence operatives who help him control restless Venezuelans and block efforts to replace him.

“The issue of Cuban involvement in Venezuela is a fact. It’s not a theory,” said the official, briefing reporters on condition of anonymity per administration policy.

President Donald Trump’s national security adviser, John Bolton, will unveil more details on the work of Cuban operatives in Venezuela, but the senior administration official said the United States plans to ratchet up its pressure on Cuba, especially the Cuban military that assists with Venezuela’s intelligence and counterintelligence efforts.

Read more: https://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/world/article220177985.html



(Clearly the Orange Prince knows the public will not support an attack on Venezuela, so he's going to try the back door to an attack by claiming Cuba is responsible for Venezuela's problems, and create an opening for a Bay of Pigs II.)
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Trump takes aim at Cuba, holds Havana responsible for Venezuelan crisis (Original Post) Judi Lynn Oct 2018 OP
yes please attack cuba - cuban americans right before a huge florida election. thanks! nt msongs Oct 2018 #1
Got to blame somebody, House of Roberts Oct 2018 #2
Venezuela's largest trading partner is causing most their troubles? EX500rider Oct 2018 #5
Who refines Venezuela's sulfur-heavy crude? House of Roberts Oct 2018 #8
The US still take twice as much of their oil as any other country. EX500rider Oct 2018 #12
The only place that can handle the sludge being pumped out of the Orinoco belt is Citgo in Houston GatoGordo Oct 2018 #17
Have you picked up a paper and read about what is going in in Venezuela? GatoGordo Oct 2018 #15
Divert attention from Saudi Arabia ? left-of-center2012 Oct 2018 #3
This makes me literally laugh the fuck out loud. No Venezuelan has anything but love for Cubans. ancianita Oct 2018 #4
Butt "our" President is a style setter, he has people trying to follow his naturally cool styling! Judi Lynn Oct 2018 #6
All due respect, Ms. Lynn... ancianita Oct 2018 #7
Once you see it, it won't go away! Sorry. n/t Judi Lynn Oct 2018 #10
Clearly, the dude on the left is joking around. Dave Starsky Oct 2018 #14
Undoubtedly you're right. I'm sure he did it to make people laugh, or vomit! He did a good job. n/t Judi Lynn Oct 2018 #18
It is comedy genius. Dave Starsky Oct 2018 #21
You clearly haven't been to Venezuela GatoGordo Oct 2018 #16
Uh, huh. You've posted these bogus photos before. Any sane person can spot them a mile away. n/t Judi Lynn Oct 2018 #19
True, I haven't. But I went to Cuba last year, visited Havana and environs for 10 days, ancianita Oct 2018 #22
Your "proof" they love the Cubans is a government propaganda billboard? lol EX500rider Oct 2018 #35
I see how you think here, but my readings by and about Cubans, my watching their daily TV news, ancianita Oct 2018 #47
The point isn't what the Cubans like but how much the Venz's enjoy Cuban agents in their country,, EX500rider Oct 2018 #50
It was just my first reaction, obviously. These billboards are all over, and Cubans love them. ancianita Oct 2018 #48
another tRumped up charge elmac Oct 2018 #9
He's just looking for more support to continue to kick both countries sinkingfeeling Oct 2018 #11
Cuba is responsible for the genocide in Venezuela GatoGordo Oct 2018 #13
"Cuba is responsible for the genocide in Venezuela" LOL. n/t Judi Lynn Oct 2018 #20
You need to cite some sources here to back up your claims, and how YOU come to know so much ancianita Oct 2018 #23
If you spent some time in the DU Latin forum you would know Gato is Venezuelan EX500rider Oct 2018 #25
You say that simply being Venezuelan makes his claims valid? No corroborating links? I think not. ancianita Oct 2018 #28
I spend time there and have never had any belief he has any normal Venezuelan connections. Judi Lynn Oct 2018 #30
That's fine. GatoGordo Oct 2018 #37
You said: "and how YOU come to know so much about Venezuela" EX500rider Oct 2018 #32
Never been to Cuba. Been all over Latin America. GatoGordo Oct 2018 #34
Simply repeating the same allegation over and over again doesn't make it any more true. LanternWaste Oct 2018 #62
It is quite well known the Cubans are helping make Venz a police state. EX500rider Oct 2018 #24
Thank you. At least Trump isn't driving this report. ancianita Oct 2018 #29
Nearly swallowed my tongue seeing your author refer to Petkoff as a "leftwing opposition figure." Judi Lynn Oct 2018 #31
Just because you don't like him does not invalidate the rest of the Guardian story. EX500rider Oct 2018 #33
Your "wikipedia" definition doesn't explain how right-wing propagandists get published there. n/t Judi Lynn Oct 2018 #40
TeleSur and Colombia reports more your cup of tea? GatoGordo Oct 2018 #46
Nice movement of the goalposts on your part. LanternWaste Oct 2018 #63
Thank you. Any info for U.S.citizens who want to be good neighbors helps. And Cubans know this. ancianita Oct 2018 #52
Got it, you trust "rebelion.org" more then the Guardian.. EX500rider Oct 2018 #64
Consider the source of that article published in the Guardian. Judi Lynn Oct 2018 #41
Feel free to google "Cuban agents in Venezuela" multiple sources will verify the fact.. EX500rider Oct 2018 #42
Remarkable Marxists those Cubans. To be able to thrive despite "the blockade"? GatoGordo Oct 2018 #45
You haven't dived into the principles of Solidarity. 70% who were born after The Revolution ancianita Oct 2018 #54
Good Democrats care about this. ancianita Oct 2018 #53
In terms of human cost, this is appalling and truly sad. Because of a belief in ... SWBTATTReg Oct 2018 #26
Objective lesson on why to reject Nationalist. Both left and right. GulfCoast66 Oct 2018 #27
WSJ has a similar story about Cuba's hold on Venz: EX500rider Oct 2018 #36
The story is the same all over Central America GatoGordo Oct 2018 #38
Are you referring to the right-wing business-directed "news" publication owned by Rupert Murdoch? nt Judi Lynn Oct 2018 #39
I also posted a left wing Guardian link....there are multiple sources you can google. EX500rider Oct 2018 #43
Remind us again what sources you consider "reliable and objective non-partisan news"? GatoGordo Oct 2018 #44
"By my estimation?" How much is that worth? Most certainly did NOT call them ""right wing" rags". Judi Lynn Oct 2018 #49
"Since the Chvez government got control over the national oil" EX500rider Oct 2018 #51
A similar thing happened when Angolans took over their government with Cuban military and ancianita Oct 2018 #55
The Angolan civil war was after the Portuguese left. EX500rider Oct 2018 #56
After all that, Chavez came to Castro, not the other way around, in 1994. ancianita Oct 2018 #57
You mean Cuba helps Venz maintain a efficient Police State. EX500rider Oct 2018 #59
Before Trump was anti-Cuba, he wanted to open a hotel in Havana Brother Buzz Oct 2018 #58
He's still obsessed with Cuba's hotel business, for sure. From last year: Judi Lynn Oct 2018 #60
He's obsessed with throwing up roadblocks to American hotels trying to make a go of it Brother Buzz Oct 2018 #61

EX500rider

(11,009 posts)
5. Venezuela's largest trading partner is causing most their troubles?
Thu Oct 18, 2018, 01:05 AM
Oct 2018

Except Venezuela's problems are all home grown.

The US didn't tell then to:
Have price controls during massive inflation.
Over print money to cause the inflation.
Jail and frame opposition politicians.
Take over companies and drive away foreign investment.
Neglect infrastructure and oil field maintenance.
Not diversify the economy away from oil.
etc.

"The contraction of national and per capita GDPs between 2013 and 2017 was more severe than that of the United States during the Great Depression, or of Russia, Cuba, and Albania following the collapse of the Soviet Union.[20][21] In recent years, the annual inflation rate for consumer prices rose hundreds and thousands of percentage points, while the economy contracted by nearly 20% annually.[22] Hunger escalated to the point that the Venezuela's Living Conditions Survey (ENCOVI) found nearly 75% of the population had lost an average of at least 8.7 kg (19.4 lb) in weight due to a lack of proper nutrition.[23] According to a study published in 2018 by three main Venezuelan universities, almost 90% of the Venezuelan population now lives in poverty.[24] In fact, for the first time, extreme poverty is higher than non-extreme poverty; more than half of the country’s population does not have enough income to meet their basic food needs.[25]

The crisis has affected the life of the average Venezuelan on various levels. Political corruption, shortages in Venezuela, closure of companies, unemployment, deterioration of productivity and high dependence on oil are other problems that have also contributed to the worsening crisis. Regarding crime, Venezuela is one of the most violent countries in the world, with a murder rate in 2015 of 90 per 100,000 people according to the Observatory of Venezuelan Violence (compared to 5.35 per 100,000 in the US and 1.68 per 100,000 in Canada)"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_in_Venezuela

House of Roberts

(5,365 posts)
8. Who refines Venezuela's sulfur-heavy crude?
Thu Oct 18, 2018, 01:40 AM
Oct 2018

Who keeps pumping Canada Tar Sands sludge down through over a thousand miles of rickety pipeline to keep those refineries busy while they refuse to purchase Venezuelan crude to make things worse? Who has been working overtime to increase worldwide production to crash the price of oil in general, which is what started ALL of the symptoms your source states?

EX500rider

(11,009 posts)
12. The US still take twice as much of their oil as any other country.
Thu Oct 18, 2018, 01:19 PM
Oct 2018


And Venezuela's problems predate the drop in oil prices, that just made it worse.


They have declining production due to lack of investment in oil facilities and driving off the expertise needed to keep the oil production up.


And no outside source told them price controls during rampant inflation was a good idea, no one can buy a product and then sell it under cost, resulting in empty shelves.

And their currency controls are even worse, resulting in no dollars to buy imports as no one will take Bolivars.

"A Very Complex System of Exchange Rates
Currently there are four exchange rates: First is the official one, called CENCOEX, and which charges 6.30 bolivars to the dollar. It is only intended for the importation of food and medicine.

The next two exchange rates are SICAD I (12 bolivars per dollar) and SICAD 2 (50 bolivars per dollar); they assign dollars to enterprises that import all other types of goods. Because of the fact that US dollars are limited, coupons are auctioned only sporadically; usually weekly in the case of SICAD 1 and daily for SICAD 2. However, due to the economic crisis, no dollars have been allocated for these foreign exchange transactions and there hasn’t been an auction since August 18, 2015. As of November 2015, the Venezuelan government held only $16 billion in foreign exchange reserves, the lowest level in over ten years, and an amount that will dry up completely in four years time at the current rate of depletion.
The last and newest exchange rate is the SIMADI, currently at 200 bolivars per dollar. This rate is reserved for the purchase and sale of foreign currency to individuals and businesses.

There are many problems in Venezuela as a result of this complex system. The most obvious is the near impossibility to actually get assigned to these rates due to the complex bureaucratic process one must navigate to apply for them. In response to these difficulties, Venezuelans must rely on the black market to meet their demands for foreign currency. Therefore, people naturally rely on the black market rate, which although it is much less advantageous (at 900 vs. anywhere from 6.3 to 200 bolivars per dollar on the “official” market), at least offers the possibility to procure the much needed foreign exchange."
https://mises.org/library/venezuelas-bizarre-system-exchange-rates

And all that's with out even raising the one party state they have developed.
And it's well know that they import Cuban expertise to run a police state.
 

GatoGordo

(2,412 posts)
17. The only place that can handle the sludge being pumped out of the Orinoco belt is Citgo in Houston
Thu Oct 18, 2018, 04:17 PM
Oct 2018

The Venezuelans cannot even pump it without diluants purchased elsewhere, such as naphtha. Their heavy-sour oil is the equivalent of asphalt. So they have to import thinning agents. Their heavy-sour sludge is full of salt and water (from neglect) and sulfur, that must be removed. Once it gets to a refinery, it has to be processed and diluted further until it can be shipped. The problem being only 2 refineries are open any longer due to neglect.

The lift costs alone make it nearly unfeasible to pump their sludge. But, Chavismo knows no limits when it comes to greed, so they pump it out regardless. Their light crude from Lake Maracaibo is thinner, but the wells are tapped out or neglected. It is estimated that it would take over $20 billion to get them up to 2 million b/d (where they were 4 years ago) and $50 billion to get them up to 3 million b/d.

Russia and China will not invest another non-secured ruble or yuan with the Chavist thieves.

 

GatoGordo

(2,412 posts)
15. Have you picked up a paper and read about what is going in in Venezuela?
Thu Oct 18, 2018, 03:56 PM
Oct 2018

The Marxists in Venezuela (puppets of the Castroists) cannot bring themselves to believe that their Utopian dream is crashing down all around them. They don't lack at all for excuses... the hallmark of their depravity. Any time something breaks (neglected over the last 19 years) they blame saboteurs. GOD FORBID they understand the concept of preventative maintenance, or the the meaning of the word "update". Is the United States responsible for routine maintenance in Venezuela?

The golden goose (PdVSA, the state oil company) has been plucked and now, the carcass is about to be devoured by creditors. Did the United States drive Chavismo into debt to the point of 200 billion dollars?

Venezuela manufactures NOTHING. Not food. Not clothing. Not medicine. What was at one time profitable was "nationalized" (confiscated) and ruined. Did the United States confiscate those farms, those industries and bankrupt them?

The educated flee for other countries. A skeleton crew of teachers, doctors, nurses and engineers. Most skilled electricians and oil workers have left for Brazil, Mexico or Colombia. Women give birth on filthy hospital floors, with NO RUNNING WATER and spotty electricity. Is the United States responsible for the rampant teenage childbirth epidemic, when kids are taught all about Chavez, but NOTHING about pregnancy? (Not that birth control of any kind can be found)

In the country with the worlds largest proven oil reserves, they cannot pump their own oil. They buy gasoline from Mexico. (90% of the oil they pump goes to pay back old debts to China or Russia.) What little left over they "give in solidarity!" to Cuba. Their refineries cannot even produce motor oil for buses. Not that many run any longer. No new cars in Venezuela over the last 4 years, and rare is the spare parts to fix the old ones. Is the United States responsible for Venezuelan well upkeep? For upgrades to its refineries?

But, to hear the Chavistas, things are about to change for the better! They keep coming up with new and improved "plans for economic growth and recovery" that are as fraudulent as the Venezuelan cryptocurrency. Which is handy, because their entire recovery program is built around a crypto that nobody can even buy, let alone redeem. Fraud is what Chavismo does best.

But none of that is important. What is important is The Revolution. People will always dies, but the Revolution MUST live on.

ancianita

(37,152 posts)
4. This makes me literally laugh the fuck out loud. No Venezuelan has anything but love for Cubans.
Thu Oct 18, 2018, 12:56 AM
Oct 2018

And vice versa.

Venezuela saved Cuba's oil crisis after the fall of the Soviet Union. Cuba sends its world-renowned doctors to Venezuela and other countries.

Trump thinks Americans are THAT stupid. That he can throw any shit at anyone, like the shitgibbon he is, and make it stick.

THAT. That's what makes him a shithole leader.

And the backwater KS Star thinks that's newsworthy BWAhahahaha

Judi Lynn

(161,405 posts)
6. Butt "our" President is a style setter, he has people trying to follow his naturally cool styling!
Thu Oct 18, 2018, 01:15 AM
Oct 2018


The other presidents got "nuttin'" but millions of people who loved them.

Thank you, ancianita!

Dave Starsky

(5,914 posts)
14. Clearly, the dude on the left is joking around.
Thu Oct 18, 2018, 03:34 PM
Oct 2018

This has got to be his Halloween costume. If it is, it's absolutely brilliant.

(He IS joking... right?l

Dave Starsky

(5,914 posts)
21. It is comedy genius.
Thu Oct 18, 2018, 05:18 PM
Oct 2018

Self-deprecating and funny as hell. This could only have been done for comedic purposes, and it succeeds spectacularly.

 

GatoGordo

(2,412 posts)
16. You clearly haven't been to Venezuela
Thu Oct 18, 2018, 04:06 PM
Oct 2018

Maduro sends oil and gas (that it cannot refine in-house... it is imported from Mexico and Brazil) without cost to Cuba. While Venezuelans die of malnutrition and illness. He also "gifted" Cuba a refinery.

In return, Cuba sends G2 agents to infiltrate every vital industry and the GNB, PNB and FANB. They also send their fake "doctors" into Barrio Adentro missions to offer their "expert advice"... which usually results in high numbers of poor young Venezuelan women becoming pregnant courtesy of their "Cuban doctors".








This what Venezuelans "Best Friend" Cuba has brought to Venezuela.

ancianita

(37,152 posts)
22. True, I haven't. But I went to Cuba last year, visited Havana and environs for 10 days,
Thu Oct 18, 2018, 05:28 PM
Oct 2018

spoke with Cubans everywhere and never heard any of your bad news about how Venezuelans view them. Then again, since the embargo some 60 years ago, the U.S. and its former pro-Batista Cuban capitalists in Miami have controlled the narrative about Cuba.

I'll be going again in November to visit the southern provinces, Cienfuegos, Santiago and Trinidad. I'll be sure and ask Cubans if they are aware of your take on how Venezuelans view them.

I still laugh at how this shitgibbon president wants to openly pit two suffering countries against each other. That's the evil globalist playbook, as a globalist wrecking crew now publicly train their eye of mordor on Central and South America. Trump's silliness can no longer hide their murderous practices from way back in the United Fruit Company days.

I hurt for both countries, who've suffered from the corporate machinations of their stupid neighbor of the Norte.

Thanks for your sad and beautiful photos. I hope to go there when my country stops doing horrible things down in South America in my name. Desperately poor people of that hemisphere have floundered with fast fixes, and dragged anyone down in their panic to survive.

I'd like to think that if they knew how to keep away the corporate imperial machinery that compelled their leaders to make unfortunate decisions, they would have preferred to be left alone by propagandist globalists who have cared nothing for them, corporatists and their mercenaries who, now, only want to clear millions out of South American countries to rid themselves of people whose land base resources are all they have ever really cared about.

EX500rider

(11,009 posts)
35. Your "proof" they love the Cubans is a government propaganda billboard? lol
Fri Oct 19, 2018, 01:04 PM
Oct 2018

Yes they love them as much as the Eastern Europeans loved the local KGB and Soviet Commissars.

ancianita

(37,152 posts)
47. I see how you think here, but my readings by and about Cubans, my watching their daily TV news,
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 12:30 AM
Oct 2018

talking to them, well, those sources just don't corroborate what Cubans say about their neighbor countries.

Believe what you wish.

 

elmac

(4,642 posts)
9. another tRumped up charge
Thu Oct 18, 2018, 02:26 AM
Oct 2018

if anyone is to blame its US and decades of sabotaging elections and overthrowing governments.

sinkingfeeling

(51,802 posts)
11. He's just looking for more support to continue to kick both countries
Thu Oct 18, 2018, 04:33 AM
Oct 2018

to the curb. Next will be full blown reversal of American travel to Cuba and more sanctions.

 

GatoGordo

(2,412 posts)
13. Cuba is responsible for the genocide in Venezuela
Thu Oct 18, 2018, 03:28 PM
Oct 2018

Cuba's G2 has fully infiltrated every sector of government and important industry.

Trump is right on this one. (Hey. Even the blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then!)

ancianita

(37,152 posts)
23. You need to cite some sources here to back up your claims, and how YOU come to know so much
Thu Oct 18, 2018, 05:57 PM
Oct 2018

about Venezuela OR Cuba, and their relationship.

You need to cite for your above claims about their shit oil, refining, etc., and then for your claim that Cuba has had designs to exploit them.

ancianita

(37,152 posts)
28. You say that simply being Venezuelan makes his claims valid? No corroborating links? I think not.
Thu Oct 18, 2018, 10:34 PM
Oct 2018

Whether I spent every day on the Latin forum wouldn't invalidate my post for two reasons.

First, I daresay most DUers don't spend time on the Latin forum, either. That larger audience has can also reasonably expect that it's incumbent upon him to establish evidence beyond his personal experience to corroborate one red state newspaper. Cubans haven't wanted either Bolton, Trump or others to meddle in their struggle who don't already have a trusted relationship with Venezuelans.


Venezuelans understand that, too. Either country might be desperate for help to get their economies working, but Trump or Bolton would be the last leader either of them would believe. They can both easily see Trumpian meddling, divide-and-conquer Latino voters here in the U.S.; they can both see a binary trap that negates the history of those countries' mutual friendship over all the decades they've tried together to keep outside players from controlling their land bases.

Both countries' history of solidarity is more complicated, as Bolton will learn, if he cares.

Second, I daresay that most of DU are Americans in America. Any claims we make about our country's economic or political problems still require more fact-based, corroborating sources than one news report or our particular life experience. Most DUers appreciate that they get to read links that thread through the major forums.

Though I don't pretend to speak for the larger community, this isn't an unfair expectation to be better informed about news that shows us what promotes or endangers Venezuelans' freedoms.

Gato can believe what he wants to.

Cubans, as I know them, have no such designs on Venezuela.

Judi Lynn

(161,405 posts)
30. I spend time there and have never had any belief he has any normal Venezuelan connections.
Thu Oct 18, 2018, 10:40 PM
Oct 2018

Anything said already could have just as easily been posted by a Cuban "exile" or an "exile's" offspring, or an ordinary person interested in restoring the US corporate/military rule via violent puppet dictators to all the Presidencies of the Americas, to literally "make LatAm (and the Caribbean) subservient again." They all rant the same way on Latin America and Cuba, etc. We've seen so many stomp through here already.

 

GatoGordo

(2,412 posts)
37. That's fine.
Fri Oct 19, 2018, 02:41 PM
Oct 2018

I don't believe for a second you have been to Latin America at all. EVER. I have put feet on the ground countless, doing actual work with the poor, the sick and disenfranchised.

I am confident your worldview comes from the everything you have ever read about Marxism. Because that is the only place that Marxism works... in theory. In a book.

Tell us about the last time you were in Venezuela? Colombia? Nicaragua? Honduras?

EX500rider

(11,009 posts)
32. You said: "and how YOU come to know so much about Venezuela"
Fri Oct 19, 2018, 12:20 AM
Oct 2018

And I said because he is from Venezuela.

 

GatoGordo

(2,412 posts)
34. Never been to Cuba. Been all over Latin America.
Fri Oct 19, 2018, 09:14 AM
Oct 2018

Wife is Venezuelan. Been there, and LA about 50+ times over the last 30 years on mission trips to build schools and clinics, and as part of various medical missions. (Operation Smile, etc)

99% of my information on Venezuela comes from first hand sources in Maracay, where the last of my family in Venezuela lives. Information isn't real time, because electricity isn't "real time" in Venezuela. Its on for about 6 hours per day outside of Caracas where the Chavista elite like to live. Internet is hit or miss. No land lines for phones... they haven't been serviced in 18 years or more. No spare parts, as nothing is manufactured in Venezuela. Everything is imported. Every time something breaks, the Chavistas blame sabotage. As if nearly 20 years of neglect in tropical heat/humidity has no effect on infrastructure.

There is no running water in the domicile where my relatives live. They get their filthy water from a truck that only shows up once per week. There is literally sediment in the water, which has to be boiled. The TUY 1 and TUY 2 lines are constantly blowing up from neglect, and there is no spare parts. (an ongoing theme). First the Chavistas blamed Capitalism for "bad construction". Then saboteurs. Then corruption. Then drought (during the wettest season on record). Then the sun being too close to Venezuela.

The local hospital is a wreck. It has no running water, and like the rest of the town, spotty electricity. No back up generators (no spare parts). No insulin, no antibiotics and no dialysis units. One operating room that doesn't do operations because there are no anesthetics or sutures. No autoclaves for sterility. Few doctors and nurses. They left.

Food is by CLAP for the well connected and faithful Chavistas only. If you don't have the Fatherland Card (Chavista Loyalty Card) you get nothing from the Chavistas. All of the food that is supposed to be price regulated at "agreed" prices are impossible to find. The rest of what is found is at real world prices. (based on the dollar, as almost all food is imported)

Schools are almost empty. No teachers, as they spend most of their time looking for food. No students because they have better things to do, like dig through garbage to find food. Besides, schools only teach Bolivarian History and Chavismo. Reading and writing and addition and subtraction? Please... who needs that?

Transportation is abysmal. No buses. People ride in open air trucks called "dog kennels". Gas is very cheap if you can get it. (You need to be a faithful Chavista to get gas now) No new cars. Old cars have no spare parts. No motor oil in a country with the most oil reserves in the world. Most airlines don't fly into Simon Bolivar airport anymore.

And the only people getting paid anything more than minimum wage is the military, which Maduro has blessed with running the PdVSA, which is being bankrupted. They are everywhere. You can't go 5 miles on any major road without being pulled over at checkpoints, where the citizen is usually shaken down. Venezuelans traveling by bus routinely have their suitcases stolen by these thugs. Clothes are precious because nobody can even afford shoes. Strangely enough, you can find red t-shirts with Chavez Eyes logos on them everywhere, for free.

Is there anything specific in the way of information that I can offer you?

FYI. I would be very careful about believing anything that the "LA Forum Spammer" has to offer on what is actually going on in LA. I doubt seriously they have stepped on foot in any Latin American country.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
62. Simply repeating the same allegation over and over again doesn't make it any more true.
Mon Oct 22, 2018, 11:33 AM
Oct 2018

Regardless of your blind squirrel and nut problems.

Judi Lynn

(161,405 posts)
31. Nearly swallowed my tongue seeing your author refer to Petkoff as a "leftwing opposition figure."
Thu Oct 18, 2018, 11:19 PM
Oct 2018

Good grief!

That told me all I needed to know about the writer of your reference. Anyone in the US who has followed Venezuelan politics in the last 18 years is well aware of that professional spinner and liar.

Will never forget his article he ran in his filthy rag, Tal Cual, in which he photoshopped a picture taken of Hugo Chavez giving a speech to a women's association, in which he held aloft a red rose. Petkoff had his minions substitute a GUN so it appeared Chavez was holding a gun in the air as he spoke to the women, as if he was threatening them, or something.

So damned shabby.

Here we go, I'm posting the photo again, after having posted it repeated times over the years:



Here's the photo they screwed with:







"Le Monde" and journalist Paulo Paranagua at war without truce against Venezuela

Tarik Bouafia
Investig'action


The indignation to variable geometry of some journalists is a fact worth mentioning. Paulo A. Paranagua, journalist of the newspaper Le Monde, is a test. The Brazilian professional allegedly had been imprisoned in Argentina between 1975 and 1977 by a military man in an extreme left Peronist movement.

If the above were true, Paranagua seems to have turned the page in the same way as his Venezuelan colleague Théodore Petkoff, a former guerrilla turned Liberal and now runs the opposition newspaper Tal Cual.

Paranagua, regular columnist of Le Monde, is the perfect caricature of the dominant journalism in permanent crusade against the progressive governments of Latin America and in particular against the Bolivarian revolution in Venezuela.

Criticize these countries and their political processes with which the dissent is clearly their fundamental right. However, his evident media frenzy against countries that have decided to liberate themselves to a greater or lesser degree from US tutelage and start deep social transformations has become obsessive.

Venezuela, at the head of this resurrection of a part of South America, often pays a high cost for it. The work of this alleged journalist is to spread a sea of ​​lies, approaches and errors of all kinds in addition to some "analysis" of shoddy.

In an article on Venezuela published on February 26, 2015 on lemonde.fr and entitled Au Venezuela, the stratégie de la tension du président Maduro (1), the author is positioned as a defender of the opposition and of "human rights." This article begins: "The violent arrest of the mayor of Caracas, Antonio Ledezma, on February 19 is the tangible sign of a repressive escalation in Venezuela. Ledezma will accompany another opposition figure, Leopoldo López, imprisoned a year ago in the sinister military prison of Ramo Verde. " A reader with little knowledge of the current situation in Venezuela might think, reading these lines, that Venezuela has transformed into a dictatorship in which opponents are imprisoned without charge or due process. Without a doubt, this is the message that Paranagua seeks to convey.

Some sentences later Paranagua returns to the charge addressing the "summary dismissal" in reference to the dismissal of the deputy and leader of the opposition Maria Corina Machado. The situation is presented without making any mention of the reasons for his dismissal or imprisonment. As if President Nicolás Maduro had risen one morning and, by not having to do, had ordered the forces of order to attack his opponents. Reality is a bit more complex than it seems.

This supposed journalist tells the facts without contextualizing them, which prevents us from understanding how this situation is reached. The truth is that Antonio Ledezma, Leopoldo López and María Corina Machado are not ordinary or peaceful opponents as Paranagua presents them. They are really coup leaders and enemies of democracy, peace and freedom.

In fact, since the dawn of the Bolivarian revolution they have repeatedly tried to create the favorable conditions to overthrow first President Hugo Chávez and then his successor Nicolás Maduro Moros.

More translated from French:
http://www.rebelion.org/noticia.php?id=198636

~ ~ ~



http://paranaguafanclub.over-blog.com/2015/03/paulo-paranagua-n-est-pas-un-agent-de-la-cia.html

We all know better than that, or we would, if it weren't for ignorance and apathy in some cases.

EX500rider

(11,009 posts)
33. Just because you don't like him does not invalidate the rest of the Guardian story.
Fri Oct 19, 2018, 12:22 AM
Oct 2018

The Guardian is not right wing.

"The paper's readership is generally on the mainstream left of British political opinion. The newspaper's reputation as a platform for liberal and left-wing editorial has led to the use of the "Guardian reader" and "Guardianista" as often (but not always) pejorative epithets for those of left-leaning or politically correct tendencies."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guardian

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
63. Nice movement of the goalposts on your part.
Mon Oct 22, 2018, 11:35 AM
Oct 2018

And the pretense of civility give it that excellent Splenda aftertaste.

ancianita

(37,152 posts)
52. Thank you. Any info for U.S.citizens who want to be good neighbors helps. And Cubans know this.
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 01:03 PM
Oct 2018

Last edited Sat Oct 20, 2018, 01:46 PM - Edit history (1)

EX500rider

(11,009 posts)
64. Got it, you trust "rebelion.org" more then the Guardian..
Mon Oct 22, 2018, 04:12 PM
Oct 2018

...and your own source calls him: "....as his Venezuelan colleague Théodore Petkoff, a former guerrilla turned Liberal."

Judi Lynn

(161,405 posts)
41. Consider the source of that article published in the Guardian.
Fri Oct 19, 2018, 06:39 PM
Oct 2018

Then, if it isn't too much trouble, consider HIS sources.

If it's not too much to ask, take the time to learn how the US, under Richard Nixon, "make the economy scream" as he instructed Richard Helms, his CIA guy, overthrew Salvador Allende, installed Augusto Pinochet, who kidnapped, tortured, murdered, disappeared so many people, and do take the time to find out about Reagan's invasion of Grenada, and all the other collapses of other leftist governments throughout all the Americas.

You don't just throw an article out and expect everyone to swallow it. There are people who may not know much about it and they will take the time to look more closely. Ignorance has always been appreciated by right-wing power-seeking nutballs who intend to keep the U.S. in control of the entire Western Hemisphere, one way or another.

I invite anyone who has questions about anything to take the time to DIVE IN, and start giving yourself the education which has been denied you through official sources and corporate media for generations. It's there to discover. Once you have found it you will not be able to return to your earlier state of ignorance. It can't happen. Good luck to people who have started seeing through the brain-washing, or suspecting there might be a real truth, rather than what happens through perception management by the fascist elements among us.

EX500rider

(11,009 posts)
42. Feel free to google "Cuban agents in Venezuela" multiple sources will verify the fact..
Fri Oct 19, 2018, 07:24 PM
Oct 2018

....all which have zero to do with anything that happened back in the '70's under Nixon, might as well bring up the War of 1812 while your at it. And yes there has definitely been some brain washing going around...lol

So the police state of Cuba will send medical assistance but no political assistance to the country that gives it free oil? lol..I have a bridge for sale too!

 

GatoGordo

(2,412 posts)
45. Remarkable Marxists those Cubans. To be able to thrive despite "the blockade"?
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 12:06 AM
Oct 2018

Except its not a blockade... its an economic embargo levied by ONE COUNTRY. Many non-US citizens visit Cuba regularly with no problems.

Everyone lives in relative squalor (except the elite) with everything from sugar to coffee to rice being rationed. Yet in a nation where material wealth isn't important, what do the Castroists crave more than anything? CASH. But how to get hard currency???

1. Send their fake doctors out all over the world, and these countries pay the Cubans $200/month, plus room and board for their services. These doctors MAYBE see $30, which they send back home (to be exchanged at the official rate in Castroist exchange houses) Because it is illegal for Cubans to have foreign currency... only Cuban currency. CUP or CUC.

2. Medical "tourism". Cash only, please. And if you don't like the outcome, you can sue the Castroists in a Havana court. Jajajajaja!

3. Remesas, aka remittances. Overseas relatives send their money to their relatives (via the Castros,) who (again) exchange the currency at the Castroist rate. Pennies on the dollar for the Cuban relatives.

4. Tourism. Your cash MUST be exchanged. It is illegal to pay for any good or service in any currency other than the CUC or CUP.

Oh... and good luck exchanging your CUC or CUP back into hard currency when you leave Cuba... its a "one way street". Dollars/Euros flow in, but the Castroists won't exchage it back to you. (BTW, your CUC or CUP is worthless outside of Cuba. Nobody exchanges it)

So why does Cuba have such issues, when ANY country other than the US can legally do business with them? Why can't Cubans buy cars, Twinkies and skateboards like anyone else???

Because the Cuban currency has ZERO value. Anything they used to get from the Soviet Union prior to 1991 was either in barter or out of benevolence. The Cubans complained that they couldn't get spare parts for a leased plane that recently augered at Jose Marti airport. That is false. They could get parts... they just didn't want to pay for the parts. Their currency is worthless and the Cuban hierarchy has better things to do than worry about air safety.

How is that for diving in?

ancianita

(37,152 posts)
54. You haven't dived into the principles of Solidarity. 70% who were born after The Revolution
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 01:45 PM
Oct 2018

still live by those principles.

A better dive is more reading, more movies.

Try Marc Frank's Cuban Revelations -- Behind The Scenes In Havana. He's the longest living American journalist in Cuba, sent his daughters to their schools and universities, still lives there.

Also, Netflix's The Cuba Libre story, with full episodes available on YouTube, for interested DUers.





What you'll find out, and what Cubans have told me, is why Cuba did not follow the Eastern European Communist countries into the dustbin of history.

Young Cubans told me (2017) what the difference is between Cuba and the Soviets. Young people, post-Castro, under their new president, Diaz-Canel, believe that the Soviet-style system -- put in place in the heat of battles that unfolded on their island between the U.S and Soviets -- no longer serves their interests.

The embargo you speak of was broken by Australia -- which our country fined for doing so -- and other countries for humanitarian reasons. It's been eroding since other countries couldn't respect it.

Clinton and Bush also allowed food trade from 2000 on. In 2001 -- 17 years ago. Riceland Foods, Archer Daniels Midland, Cargill and other companies signed commercial contracts with Havana. Castro turned down NGO aid but took a one-time deal with Castro to sell food and medicines with cash after Hurricane Michelle.

The cash Cubans get from tourism? It pays for their military. Good idea, if you ask me.


SWBTATTReg

(22,741 posts)
26. In terms of human cost, this is appalling and truly sad. Because of a belief in ...
Thu Oct 18, 2018, 09:46 PM
Oct 2018

a broken economic system and being ridden roughshod over by their leaders, this is a horrible human tragedy in the making. Perhaps the UN can do something?

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
27. Objective lesson on why to reject Nationalist. Both left and right.
Thu Oct 18, 2018, 10:28 PM
Oct 2018

There is always some ‘enemy’ to blame for your problems.

Trump, Maduro and Castro. 3 peas in a pod.

 

GatoGordo

(2,412 posts)
38. The story is the same all over Central America
Fri Oct 19, 2018, 04:23 PM
Oct 2018

I have a friend who works for a non-profit in Honduras. After the recent close elections, there was a lot of protests breaking out. Certainly in a close LA election, this is going to happen. (Look at our own disaster in the US with the Orangutan in Chief).

However, things took a turn when some unusual suspects started showing up. Loud and very angry "peasant organizers" who had a very non-Honduran accent to their Spanish language. One could even say... a Cuban accent. All of a sudden, the peasants had money and logistics and radios and information...

And thing were pretty rowdy until.... Ortega in Nicaragua put his foot into it. The old, the poor, the educated/uneducated, the business persons all had a problem with Ortega's heavy handedness. All of a sudden, these "peasant organizers with a Cuban accent" were LONG GONE from Honduras and popped up in Nicarcagua.

And then the troubles started up like clockwork in Nicaragua! A coincidence, perhaps? People being harassed by armed gangs of Ortega supporters (Sandinista Youth) and the FSLN shock troops... in a country that only recently had been named (The Nation) one of the safest in the hemisphere for gun violence?

Coincidence?

Judi Lynn

(161,405 posts)
39. Are you referring to the right-wing business-directed "news" publication owned by Rupert Murdoch? nt
Fri Oct 19, 2018, 06:05 PM
Oct 2018
 

GatoGordo

(2,412 posts)
44. Remind us again what sources you consider "reliable and objective non-partisan news"?
Fri Oct 19, 2018, 11:32 PM
Oct 2018

By my estimation, you have accused the Guardian and the NY Times of being "right wing" rags.

Please, offer us some news sources you trust for objective news reporting?

Judi Lynn

(161,405 posts)
49. "By my estimation?" How much is that worth? Most certainly did NOT call them ""right wing" rags".
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 01:06 AM
Oct 2018

Sometimes a person will take liberties normally cautious people wouldn't consider when he's desperate.

Here's a conspicuous case having nothing to do with the Americas, but illustrating incredible pro-right spin which drove the news for years:

Judith Miller Carried Water for the USA’s Worst Debacle Since Vietnam
A publicity blitz aimed at reputation rehabilitation revives a telling personal memory for one journalist
By Jesse Kornbluth • 04/08/15 2:38pm

The Tibetans are said to believe that if you have a dark thought about someone and the thought does not directly strike that person it will travel around the world and hit you in the back of the head. On this theory, I have spent almost a decade not thinking dark thoughts about Judith Miller, the former New York Times reporter whose reporting about Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction was so useful in the Bush Administration’s campaign to sell an Iraq invasion.

But in the last few days, Miller has published a piece in the Wall Street Journal, “The Iraq War and Stubborn Myths, “ and The New York Times has reviewed her just-published book, The Story: A Reporter’s Journey, and I find myself thinking again about the 4,400 American dead, the hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis, the untold wounded and maimed, the waste of $4 trillion, the connection between the shattering of Iraq and the rise of ISIS, and not least, the fact that no one involved in the greatest American disaster since Vietnam has been held remotely accountable. So when I read Judith Miller saying, yet again, that a journalist is only as good as her sources, I found my blood pressure redlining.

And when I read, in the pathologically cautious Times review by a non-Times employee, that “the agenda that comes through most strongly [in the book] is a desire to land on the front page,” I find myself transported to an earlier time, when citizens like me ate rage for breakfast. And then I recall an interaction I had with Ms. Miller in 2005 and the question that forced me to write about her.

For those who have had the good fortune to know nothing about Ms. Miller and her role as an enabler of the Bush Administration’s marketing of the Iraq invasion, here’s the briefest of primers.

. . .

A few hours after that piece was published, Dick Cheney went on “Meet the Press” and quoted Miller. Others followed. Bob Simon of “60 Minutes” was quick to see through the kabuki. “You leak a story to the New York Times,” he told Franklin Foer of New York Magazine, “and the New York Times prints it, and then you go on the Sunday shows quoting the New York Times and corroborating your own information. You’ve got to hand it to them. That takes, as we say here in New York, chutzpah.”

More:
https://observer.com/2015/04/judith-miller-carried-water-for-the-usas-worst-debacle-since-vietnam/

~ ~ ~

An article posted by a DU'er in earlier days, before the fascist right seized control of the Americas again, taken from an interesting thread:

Surprisingly, NYT is on board with this

Why Chávez Was Re-elected
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/10/opinion/why-chavez-was-re-elected.html?ref=global-home&pagewanted=print

For most people who have heard or read about Hugo Chávez in the international media, his reelection on Sunday as president of Venezuela by a convincing margin might be puzzling.

Almost all of the news we hear about him is bad: He picks fights with the United States and sides with “enemies” such as Iran; he is a “dictator” or “strongman” who has squandered the nation’s oil wealth; the Venezuelan economy is plagued by shortages and is usually on the brink of collapse.

Then there is the other side of the story: Since the Chávez government got control over the national oil industry, poverty has been cut by half, and extreme poverty by 70 percent. College enrollment has more than doubled, millions of people have access to health care for the first time and the number of people eligible for public pensions has quadrupled.

<snip>

These leftist presidents and their political parties won reelection because, like Chávez, they brought significant — and in some cases huge — improvements in living standards. They all originally campaigned against “neoliberalism,” a word used to describe the policies of the prior 20 years, when Latin America experienced its worst economic growth in more than a century.

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/11086225#post2

EX500rider

(11,009 posts)
51. "Since the Chvez government got control over the national oil"
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 11:30 AM
Oct 2018

Venz. nationalized their oil back in the '70's. All that has happened since the Chavistas got ahold of it is a huge drop in production since they fired all the competent workers and drove off the international companies lending expertise:

Venezuela's oil industry is in crisis.
What was once the backbone of Latin America's most prosperous nation is now a constellation of rundown projects, shuttered infrastructure and empty stillness.

The workers, who years ago enjoyed some of the best benefits among Venezuela's public and private employees, have paid the highest price for their country's spiral into hyperinflation. Their salaries are now worth just a handful of dollars.


https://money.cnn.com/2018/05/09/news/companies/venezuela-oil-industry/index.html

"Since the Chávez government got control over the national oil industry, poverty has been cut by half, and extreme poverty by 70 percent."

That's even more wrong, it went that way at 1st but has swung so far the other way it is not funny:

ancianita

(37,152 posts)
55. A similar thing happened when Angolans took over their government with Cuban military and
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 02:20 PM
Oct 2018

medical help, as I recall. Angola, like Venezuela, is an oil producer.

Angola's Lusaka Protocol decided against a Soviet-style socialism and established democratic socialism.

The problem was wresting their oil control from elites. Angolans did not consider Cuba's help meddling or interference -- there are many monuments in South African countries to Cubans who died during those countries's struggles to throw off colonial controls -- but as helpful as individual member NATO countries' help would be for any other member.




EX500rider

(11,009 posts)
56. The Angolan civil war was after the Portuguese left.
Sun Oct 21, 2018, 01:15 PM
Oct 2018

"The war began immediately after Angola became independent from Portugal in November 1975. The civil war was essentially a power struggle between two former liberation movements, the People's Movement for the Liberation of Angola (MPLA) and the National Union for the Total Independence of Angola (UNITA). At the same time, the war served as a surrogate battleground for the Cold War, and large-scale direct and indirect international involvement by opposing powers such as the Soviet Union, Cuba, South Africa, and the United States was a major feature of the conflict."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angolan_Civil_War

And Venezuela nationalized their oil back in the mid '70's.

ancianita

(37,152 posts)
57. After all that, Chavez came to Castro, not the other way around, in 1994.
Sun Oct 21, 2018, 02:53 PM
Oct 2018

Early on, and as the official story stands, the Angola wars seemed to be between two liberation movements, though one was supplied by supported by former colonial owners and the other run by the people. So yeah, they were proxies. Nearby African nations reported on that.

None of this past diminishes the Venezuelans' and Cubans' stance that their individual country's struggle is in solidarity with the other, and whoever else they stand with in solidarity.

What the Cubans in Venezuela offer the government is better knowledge of who their enemies are when it comes to Venezuelans' land base control. Neither one sees the other as "invasive" or "dominant."

EX500rider

(11,009 posts)
59. You mean Cuba helps Venz maintain a efficient Police State.
Sun Oct 21, 2018, 03:28 PM
Oct 2018

"Enemies" being Venezuelans who don't support the current illegitimate government who cheated in just about every way possible on the last election.

"United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights Zeid Ra'ad al-Hussein stated that the election "does not in any way fulfill minimal conditions for free and credible elections"
The European Union, through the European Parliament, also ruled that it would not recognize the 20 May elections and called the electoral process "fraudulent".
The governments of Argentina, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, France, Jamaica, Panama, Paraguay, Spain,the United States and Uruguay directly criticized the electoral process in various ways, condemning the disqualification and imprisonment of MUD individuals, the lack of advanced notice for the election date and the bias of electoral bodies, describing such actions by the Venezuelan government antidemocratic. Remaining member governments representing countries from the Lima Group, including Brazil, Guatemala, Guyana, Honduras, Mexico, Peru, and Saint Lucia, denounced the elections in a joint statement through declarations made by the organization.

Meanwhile, the governments of Antigua and Barbuda, Bolivia, Cuba, Nicaragua, North Korea and Russia reacted to the call for elections positively, showing support for the process and demanded that there be no intervention."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_election,_2018#International

Judi Lynn

(161,405 posts)
60. He's still obsessed with Cuba's hotel business, for sure. From last year:
Sun Oct 21, 2018, 04:55 PM
Oct 2018

Trump Tightens Cuba Embargo, Restricting Access to Hotels and Businesses
By Gardiner Harris
Nov. 8, 2017

Leer en español

WASHINGTON — The Trump administration on Wednesday tightened the economic embargo on Cuba, restricting Americans from access to hotels, stores and other businesses tied to the Cuban military.

A lengthy list of rules, which President Trump promised in June to punish the communist government in Havana, came just as Mr. Trump was visiting leaders of the communist government in Beijing and pushing business deals there. Wednesday’s announcement was part of the administration’s gradual unwinding of parts of the Obama administration’s détente with the Cuban government.

Americans wishing to visit Cuba will once again have to go through authorized tour operators, and tour guides will have to accompany the groups — making such trips more expensive.

. . .

Among the hotels left off the banned list was Marriott International’s Four Points Havana Hotel, owned by the Cuban government, while a competitor operated by a foreign rival, the Gran Hotel Manzana Kempinski La Habana, is on the banned list.

More:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/08/us/politics/trump-tightens-cuba-embargo-restricting-access-to-hotels-businesses.html

Brother Buzz

(36,750 posts)
61. He's obsessed with throwing up roadblocks to American hotels trying to make a go of it
Sun Oct 21, 2018, 05:51 PM
Oct 2018

Retaliation, retribution, reprisal, punishment, and vengeance from a petty asshole. Did I miss any?

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