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Sat Dec 15, 2018, 12:06 AM

Priest criticized teenager who killed himself at funeral

Source: Associated Press


Updated 7:44 pm CST, Friday, December 14, 2018

TEMPERANCE, Mich. (AP) — The Catholic Archdiocese of Detroit says it regrets that a priest officiating at a teen's funeral questioned whether he would get to heaven after killing himself.

Maison Hullibarger's father tells the Detroit Free Press that he asked the priest to stop talking during the Dec. 8 funeral Mass. But Jeff Hullibarger says the Rev. Don LaCuesta continued giving a critical sermon at Our Lady of Mount Carmel Church in Temperance.

Hullibarger says some mourners left the church crying.

The archdiocese released a statement Thursday saying it's sorry that an "unbearable situation was made even more difficult." The archdiocese says LaCuesta will not preach at funerals "for the foreseeable future."

Read more: https://www.chron.com/news/us/article/Priest-criticized-teenager-who-killed-himself-at-13468083.php

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Arrow 53 replies Author Time Post
Reply Priest criticized teenager who killed himself at funeral (Original post)
Judi Lynn Dec 2018 OP
Gore1FL Dec 2018 #1
marble falls Dec 2018 #10
Raine Dec 2018 #23
marble falls Dec 2018 #27
Kashkakat v.2.0 Dec 2018 #25
marble falls Dec 2018 #28
Raine Dec 2018 #22
dalton99a Dec 2018 #2
47of74 Dec 2018 #7
Cold War Spook Dec 2018 #32
keithbvadu2 Dec 2018 #3
thesquanderer Dec 2018 #4
keithbvadu2 Dec 2018 #5
olegramps Dec 2018 #13
keithbvadu2 Dec 2018 #18
Drahthaardogs Dec 2018 #24
keithbvadu2 Dec 2018 #26
Drahthaardogs Dec 2018 #31
keithbvadu2 Dec 2018 #34
Drahthaardogs Dec 2018 #35
keithbvadu2 Dec 2018 #37
Drahthaardogs Dec 2018 #38
flying rabbit Dec 2018 #6
rickyhall Dec 2018 #8
milestogo Dec 2018 #11
Drahthaardogs Dec 2018 #36
Sgent Dec 2018 #45
Oneironaut Dec 2018 #9
defacto7 Dec 2018 #15
Oneironaut Dec 2018 #16
defacto7 Dec 2018 #20
dembotoz Dec 2018 #12
JudyM Dec 2018 #14
PennyK Dec 2018 #17
JudyM Dec 2018 #19
Duppers Dec 2018 #21
JudyM Dec 2018 #30
vlyons Dec 2018 #29
Cold War Spook Dec 2018 #33
Duppers Dec 2018 #40
Cold War Spook Dec 2018 #41
Farmer-Rick Dec 2018 #53
Crash2Parties Dec 2018 #39
Jedi Guy Dec 2018 #43
Crash2Parties Dec 2018 #49
Jedi Guy Dec 2018 #50
Totally Tunsie Dec 2018 #42
onenote Dec 2018 #47
smirkymonkey Dec 2018 #48
Jedi Guy Dec 2018 #44
JackRiddler Dec 2018 #46
rampartc Dec 2018 #51
akraven Dec 2018 #52

Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 12:34 AM

1. I was at a funeral for a friend's father.

My friend and his mother are Lutheran (LCMS). His father was Jewish.

The presiding Lutheran Pastor saw fit to consider whether there was enough Christianity near him (probably knew some of the songs and such) to get him into heaven despite his being Jewish.

He probably had the best of intentions, but it was insane.

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Response to Gore1FL (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 09:57 AM

10. Missouri Synod. Says it all. We were taught in parochial school that Catholics were going ...

to aich-eee-double-hockeysticks and that dinosaur bones were bunk in fourth grade.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 09:46 PM

23. I attended Lutheran parochial school too but

it was the other branch of the Lutheran church I think at that time it was ACL. ACL was liberal, we had science and did all kinds of experiments, took field trips to the science museum in Los Angeles etc.

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Response to Raine (Reply #23)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 10:18 PM

27. Missouri Synod are the Sunni of the Lutheran world.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 10:14 PM

25. SAY WHAT???? The nuns told us it was the LUTHERANS who were going to the fiery place- they wouldnt

lie to us, would they??

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Response to Kashkakat v.2.0 (Reply #25)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 10:21 PM

28. They were lying to you. Be sure to pack your pockets Hershey bars, marshmallows and graham crackers,

they'll come in handy.

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Response to Gore1FL (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 09:40 PM

22. I was raised Lutheran but not LCMS

it was the liberal branch of the Lutheran church, they would never have allowed that kind of bigotry, disgusting!

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 12:46 AM

2. "They can't go to heaven because they're stuck in purgatory. You can free them by donating money"

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 05:12 AM

7. "As soon as a coin in the coffer rings / the soul from purgatory springs."

 

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 10:36 PM

32. They needed more money

 

to pay for the Crusades.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 01:00 AM

3. "questioned whether he would get to heaven after killing himself"

"questioned"

Is the Catholic faith/religion so weak that it has no solid position on the issue?

Whether it is yay or nay, say it definitively.

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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 03:08 AM

4. Don't assume the news report is perfectly written.

I suspect the priest made himself quite clear.

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 03:14 AM

5. Possible... But the RCC has left in in limbo.

Possible... But the RCC has left in in limbo.

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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 11:31 AM

13. The existence of limbo is not a doctrine. Only speculation at best.

Theologians were hard pressed to find a way out of the dilemma that people, including innocent babies, could not enter heaven is they were not baptized. This nonsense can be traced to what many considered as heresy being propagated by especially Augustine and Jerome. Many opposed their radical views such as predestination and original sin. It is ironic that many of the Protestant Reformation's leading theologians based their opposition based primarily on the writing of some of the most radical of the early third century church leaders as a reaction to the Catholic leadership's moral decline.

Christianity's infatuation with the inherent evilness of human sexuality, except for strictly the propagation of the race, can be traced to the efforts of these same pair of theologians. They actually connected the doctrine of original and its manner of transference to innocent children with the sexual climax which they termed as concupiscence. They were not without opposition, but their concepts did prevail. Most people don't realize the doctrine of original sin and the need for apologetic teaching such as limbo, were never part of the beliefs of the Jewish theologians. They have have consistently determined that sin is something you commit not something that is inherited. I didn't mean to start a theological discussion, but these facts have bearing on the present situation. The death of the young boy must be regarded as tragic and not used to bolster asinine heretical teachings. People who make themselves Christian authorities should ask the simple question. What would Jesus do? I think they will find the answer to very simple.

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Response to olegramps (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 01:39 PM

18. That's Purgatory. I mean limbo as a vague, unspecified doctrine.

That's Purgatory. I mean limbo as a vague, unspecified doctrine.

I understand Purgatory to be a way station on the way to Heaven.

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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 10:10 PM

24. Catholic doctrine states that only God knows who goes to Heaven vs. Hell

But the position would be that he literally murdered himself, thus Hell a possibility.

The question comes in if the sin was mortal. For a sin to be mortal you must 1) know it is a sin 2)commit it willingly and freely.

We would not know if he was depressed, on drugs, etc. nor do we know if he knew it was a sin.

Basically only God would know the state of his mind and condition of his heart.


Does that help?

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 10:17 PM

26. It's ok either way.

It's ok either way.

The Church does not seem to have a definitive position in explaining their way out of this.

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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #26)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 10:36 PM

31. Huh?

I just told you the Doctrine. Even the Pope would say only God knows who is in Hell.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #31)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 10:58 PM

34. But not definitive enough for the Church to say/support in this case.

That's my point.

The Church is playing public relations.

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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #34)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 11:01 PM

35. What are you talking about, definitive enough in this case?

A priest would even say they assume Hitler is in Hell but can't be sure. That's doctrine.

What the priest did was fucked up, but what were you looking for him to say?

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 11:06 PM

37. I see you are arguing just for the sake of arguing.

I see you are arguing just for the sake of arguing.

"but what were you looking for him to say?"

It's beyond the priest now.

It's what the Church has to say.

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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #37)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 11:10 PM

38. Okay, whatever...

It was a simple enough question. What were you looking for?

You're being cryptic on purpose because you have no idea what you are talking about. "It's what the Church has to say" WTF does that mean?

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 03:28 AM

6. Wasn't he just following his religion?

What is the lack of sensitivity compared to God's will?

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 08:29 AM

8. My mother converted to Judaism

And the rest her life her mother told her she was going to Hell for it

Catholics have always taught suicides go to Hell

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Response to rickyhall (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 10:12 AM

11. The neighbor kids across our backyard fence told us we were going to hell for being Protestants.

Kids repeat what they've heard from authority figures.

I guess Catholics teach that non-Catholics are going to hell.

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Response to milestogo (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 11:04 PM

36. There is no salvation outside the Church...

Yes, that is taught.

But for God, all things are possible is the other part.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #36)

Mon Dec 17, 2018, 01:44 AM

45. I thought that was

abondoned at Vatican II -- although just because the church changed its teaching doesn't mean the individual parishoers changed their understanding.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 08:49 AM

9. Their God is a vengeful psychopath. Is it really worthy of worship?

Murder 50 people, repent? You’re ok - go to heaven
Kill yourself from mental illness - eternal torture

The Christian God is a monster. He’s even worse than Satan.

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 12:34 PM

15. I can't blame a non-existent god, I would have to blame the people

who enable such ideas. One good read through the history of philosophy lays out how and why humans have set such thinking in motion. The book "Doubt" by Jennifer Michael Hecht is a good balanced read on the subject.

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 12:49 PM

16. But isn't the Christian God okay with slavery, murder, genocide, and taking sex slaves as "trophies"

It isn’t just the people, imo. It’s the belief system that people hide behind. It is perpetuated in our culture, and allows it’s followers to justify backwards beliefs.

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 03:00 PM

20. In my understanding the god or belief systems are the people.

I can't separate the people, who have the only mechanism to perpetuate belief or gods, from those systems, that mechanism being their brain. People think and ponder and choose. The systems separated from the person are the system's holy texts written by other people. The books don't ponder, but people and those who they select as teachers do. If people are caught in a system by their culture, background or just exposure, it's still the human that continues the incivility in person and through the intent of the historical texts or visions of their choosing. The only remedy that I can see is fact based education.

This is from the viewpoint of a non-believer. If one believes in a deity then of course that person can marginally blame the deity and its proclamations.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 11:08 AM

12. good friends kid did a murder suicide and they had a hard time getting a priest

they did eventually find one..old semi retired...no connection to the family
he couldn't remember the kids name.......


but he muddled thru and was of some comfort

a funeral is more for the living than the dead.....
has to be priest school 101
guess he slept thru that class

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 12:29 PM

14. A Christian friend at work many years ago 'informed' me that 'some Jews will go to Heaven.'

She was very religious and seemed to be wanting to kindly offer me hope for the ultimate disposition of my soul. I picked my jaw up off the floor and lost interest in the relationship. How do some otherwise intelligent people live so deeply in that reality that they don’t realize their certain ‘knowledge’ is based on pure supposition?!

I had known her for a couple of years, we had fun together and this was what was lurking in her mind?!

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Response to JudyM (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 01:10 PM

17. Wow

You phrased that so beautifully and succinctly that I am saving your quote.

And remember, OF COURSE we can join in the happy Christmas celebrations, because Xmas is for everyone (I find at least one or two people tell me that every year)!

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Response to PennyK (Reply #17)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 02:46 PM

19. Some lack the self-insight and humility to recognize that spoon fed beliefs are not absolute truth.

And they feel it is their responsibility (to wit, privilege) to share the gospel (small g).

This priest no doubt felt both superior and entrusted with a holy responsibility to share what he was certain is the hard truth. His selfish ignorance of the actual big picture fueled by pomposity may have caused lifelong psychic pain for the family.

(Thanks for the compliment, wish we didn’t need to think about these things... let’s hope for better from people in the future.)

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Response to JudyM (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 05:41 PM

21. They're such brainwashed conformists.

And I agree with PennyK above, you said it beautifully.

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Response to Duppers (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 10:30 PM

30. Brainwashed and blinded, yup.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 10:25 PM

29. As a Buddhist, I am appalled, but not surprised,

that some people are totally clueless. In Buddhism, we have this concept, called "right speech." It means that if you can't say something that is beneficial and helpful, don't say anything at all. If their ideology didn't support the belief that a suicide gets to heaven, the least they could have said was the hope that he would rest in peace. That he was at last free of the problems and suffering that burdened him in life were now over.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 10:44 PM

33. Since I don't believe that human beings can die, Biocentrism,

 

I don't believe in Heaven or Hell.

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Response to Cold War Spook (Reply #33)

Sun Dec 16, 2018, 01:23 AM

40. ❓ We do die.

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Response to Duppers (Reply #40)

Sun Dec 16, 2018, 02:02 PM

41. Only our physical bodies die.

 

Our conscience does not die. The universe does not create life, life creates the universe. Do I really understand all of this or even most of this, of course not. I am not a biologist and a physicist which you must be both to begin to understand. Besides, it beats dying.

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Response to Cold War Spook (Reply #41)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 09:32 AM

53. The double slit experiment does imply an observer is required to create a past

So, who was around to watch the big bang?

The universe created an intelligent creature to understand it. Will all that intelligence just go poof in the end? I'm not saying there is a god. I'm just saying that consciousness is somehow tied up with time.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 11:42 PM

39. I feel bad but am not at all surprised by this.

When I was a child the Church taught that suicide was worse than murder.
Families who had a suicide were shamed into not having a Catholic funeral.
No service, no closure. Just shame.
The Church's treatment of bullying, despair and mental illnesses is right up there with their denial of heliocentricity, or the belief that epilepsy is caused by demonic possession.

They are afraid to admit that in the face of actual knowledge, their Canon can be fallible.

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Response to Crash2Parties (Reply #39)

Mon Dec 17, 2018, 12:27 AM

43. Honest question: Do Catholics these days believe that epilepsy is caused by demonic possession?

I was raised in a Protestant household, and we were taught that modern medicine is legit, and that illness isn't caused by demonic possession or spiritual malaise and such. I'd actually be shocked to learn that Catholic doctrine is that epilepsy and similar conditions are caused by possession. Or that they still believe the Earth is the center of the universe, for that matter...

I know that the Church does believe that demonic possession is a real thing, but my understanding is that they generally consider it to be a last resort after possible medical conditions have been eliminated as a cause. I was under the impression that before the Church would grant an exorcism, it must be demonstrated that the sufferer has seen medical professionals and that disease/illness has been ruled out.

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #43)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 04:19 AM

49. Not that I'm aware of.

I intended those as historic examples.

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Response to Crash2Parties (Reply #49)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 08:29 AM

50. Whew, okay.

I was legit scared there for a moment that they actually taught and believed those things in the 21st century.

Also, didn't the Pope (one of them, anyway) acknowledge that evolution is factual, but the process is/was guided by God? If so, I suppose that's progress of a sort.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2018, 07:43 PM

42. Reading this headline, for me the question is, "Doesn't the AP proofread their headlines?".

I highly doubt this teenager killed himself at the funeral.

What has happened to our language?

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Response to Totally Tunsie (Reply #42)

Mon Dec 17, 2018, 12:28 PM

47. Agreed. Every time I see that headline I cringe.

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Response to Totally Tunsie (Reply #42)

Mon Dec 17, 2018, 02:18 PM

48. That was how I read it as well.

That he killed himself at the funeral.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2018, 12:28 AM

44. You stay classy, Father Whoever-You-Are...

Jeez, why would you say something like that to someone's grieving family? Is it not enough that they lost a loved one?

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2018, 11:34 AM

46. OT, but... how does one get that headline right?

 

It sounds like the teenager killed himself AT a funeral.

May not be the most elegant but the correct way would be at funeral first, as in

Priest at funeral [criticizes] teenager who committed suicide

Still not happy about criticizes.

(copyediting neurotic, sorry)

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 08:51 AM

51. catholics who suicide die in a state of mortal sin

and may not be buried in holy ground.

on the other hand, funerals are to comfort the living, and hardly a time for "fire and brimstone."

https://bulldogcatholic.org/the-church-and-suicide/

"Catholics must take an absolute stand against every form of suicide. Suicide is “contrary to the love of God”. It is truly evil. Now, please understand me here. In saying that suicide is evil, I am not saying that a person is evil. Catholics believe that each human person is intrinsically good. But we can choose to do evil actions. There are some actions which are evil in and of themselves, regardless of motivation or circumstance. Of these, suicide is one."

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 09:27 AM

52. Fanatics.

Especially "religious" ones just don't understand compassion or humanity.

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