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Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:23 AM

US warships again challenge Beijing's claims in South China Sea

Source: CNN


(CNN)The United States sailed two warships close to disputed islands in the South China Sea on Monday (Sunday night, ET), a move that is bound to draw the ire of Beijing.
The guided-missile destroyers USS Spruance and USS Preble sailed within 12 nautical miles of the Spratly Islands as part of what the US Navy calls a "freedom of navigation operation."
The operation was carried out "to challenge excessive maritime claims and preserve access to the waterways as governed by international law," Cmdr. Clay Doss, a spokesman for the US Navy's 7th Fleet, told CNN.
"All operations are designed in accordance with international law and demonstrate that the United States will fly, sail and operate wherever international law allows," Doss said, adding "that is true in the South China Sea as in other places around the globe."

Monday's operation was the second in the South China Sea reported by the US Navy this year. In January, the destroyer USS McCampbell sailed within 12 nautical miles of the Paracel Islands.
Shortly after that operation, China accused the US of trespassing in its territorial waters -- and said it had deployed missiles "capable of targeting medium and large ships."
"The US action violated the Chinese laws and international laws, infringed China's sovereignty, damaged regional peace, security, and order," Foreign Ministry spokesperson Lu Kang said at the time. "China will take necessary actions to protect state sovereignty."

Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/10/politics/us-ships-south-china-sea/index.html





Stupid bastard will get us into a war yet...All its going to take is an itchy missile trigger finger on either side...

33 replies, 1488 views

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Arrow 33 replies Author Time Post
Reply US warships again challenge Beijing's claims in South China Sea (Original post)
Maxheader Feb 2019 OP
hack89 Feb 2019 #1
Maxheader Feb 2019 #2
magicarpet Feb 2019 #3
still_one Feb 2019 #4
Cold War Spook Feb 2019 #16
magicarpet Feb 2019 #19
Cold War Spook Feb 2019 #24
still_one Feb 2019 #5
GulfCoast66 Feb 2019 #10
still_one Feb 2019 #14
GulfCoast66 Feb 2019 #15
still_one Feb 2019 #17
GulfCoast66 Feb 2019 #18
still_one Feb 2019 #21
soryang Feb 2019 #6
LawnKorn Feb 2019 #7
JustABozoOnThisBus Feb 2019 #8
sl8 Feb 2019 #9
LawnKorn Feb 2019 #13
hack89 Feb 2019 #12
jayfish Feb 2019 #27
hack89 Feb 2019 #28
denbot Feb 2019 #32
LawnKorn Feb 2019 #33
GulfCoast66 Feb 2019 #11
GatoGordo Feb 2019 #20
Lord Magus Feb 2019 #22
True Dough Feb 2019 #26
Maxheader Feb 2019 #23
sl8 Feb 2019 #31
MicaelS Feb 2019 #25
Sapient Donkey Feb 2019 #29
Maxheader Feb 2019 #30

Response to Maxheader (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:33 AM

1. You have to stand up to illegal territorial land grabs.

We have been doing freedom of navigation operations in the South China sea for a very long time - it is not new under Trump.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:41 AM

2. Sure, I understand that..but like so many things stumpy gets involved in...


whether actually constructive or otherwise...it screws it up...And with
americu and the chinese doing trade talks now..very important constructive
actions, why mess with pulling the dogs tail?

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Response to Maxheader (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:51 AM

3. Funny the same did not apply to Israel when,...

.... it came to bombarding the US ship the Liberty flying the American flag in the Mediterranean Sea international waters.

snip:


Both nations officially attributed the attack by Israel as being due to mistaken identification. The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy motor torpedo boats, on 8 June 1967, during the Six-Day War.

end snip, more see link,..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

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Response to magicarpet (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:11 AM

4. A big difference, it was during an active war, a war I might remind some where Egypt, Syria, Jordan,

etc. were preparing to eradicate Israel entirely.

This is not meant to be a defense on the attack on the Liberty, but present context where Israel's very existence was threatened.

Which you like to discuss Iran Air Flight 655, how about the mai lai massacre, the Hama massacre, or perhaps actually discuss the situation that the OP presented?



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Response to magicarpet (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:48 PM

16. I have never fully grasped what happened.

I figure it has to be one of two ways. One, Mossad's intel was bad. They wanted to attack the Golan Heights and knew that we would stop sending them supplies if we found out about it before they took the land. So they attacked our spy ship figuring that since it was close to Israel it had to have Hebrew translators aboard. They didn't want it to pick up anything about the Golan Heights. That was the bad intel. All translators aboard were Russian translators. Even if there had been Hebrew translators aboard, we also had Hebrew translators at classified land sites so attacking the ship would have been meaningless. Two, it was all a big mistake. The ship had already been identified and it did not look anything like an Egyptian barge. That is my problem, it has to be one or the other, but neither fits. 1963-1967 a Russian translator with the Army Security Agency working for the National Security Agency.

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Response to Cold War Spook (Reply #16)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:17 PM

19. The Liberty was clearly flying an American flag from its tallest mast...

The Israeli pilots dove down into very near the ship to bombard its decks. The American ship sent multiple radio signals identifying itself as an American vessel in international waters with no intent to cause anyone any harm.

It may have been intercepting radio signal traffic but that is not against international laws while in international waters of permissible ship travel.

------

snip....

On 2 October 2007, The Chicago Tribune published a special report[7] into the attack, containing numerous previously unreported quotes from former military personnel with first-hand knowledge of the incident. Many of these quotes directly contradict the NSA's position that it never intercepted the communications of the attacking Israeli pilots, saying that not only did transcripts of those communications exist, but also that it showed the Israelis knew they were attacking an American naval vessel.

Two diplomatic cables written by Avraham Harman, Israel's ambassador in Washington, to Abba Eban, Israel's minister of foreign affairs, have been declassified by Israel and obtained from the Israel State Archive. The first cable, sent five days after the attack, informs Eban that a U.S. informant told him (Harman) that there was "clear proof that from a certain stage the pilot discovered the identity of the ship and continued the attack anyway."[14] The second cable, sent three days later, added that the White House is "very angry" because "the Americans probably have findings showing that our pilots indeed knew that the ship was American."[7]

Documents of the Israeli General Staff meetings, declassified in October 2008, show no discussion of a planned attack on an American ship.[101]

On 30 October 2014, Al Jazeera English broadcast a documentary film containing recent first-hand accounts by several survivors of the incident.[102] The documentary argues that Israel knew the ship was American, and planned to blame its sinking on Egypt in order to draw the US into the war on the Israeli side.

end snip,.. more at link

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

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Response to magicarpet (Reply #19)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 09:13 AM

24. NSA documents.

I have looked up NSA documents over the years. I have a problem with those that have allegedly been declassified. Any report on the attack of a Naval Security Group ship that was important would not have a Secret SAVIN classification. First because it would not have had a SAVIN codeword and second, it would have been TOP SECRET codeword always never just TOP SECRET and not released for a minimum of 50 years after any investigation. Any one on the ship would not have any idea why they were attacked. And since the ships was in contact with NSA and the Israelis would know that NSA was receiving info that they were being attacked by Israelis they knew they could not blame Egypt. Again, I am not taking sides in this because I can not figure out why this took place. Now, I am going to write a sentence that will seem to have no meaning but anyone who served in any branch of the military and worked for NSA will understand and can verify my knowledge of codewords. When I was discharged, I wanted to open a restaurant near NSA headquarters. What would I have called it?

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Response to Maxheader (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:15 AM

5. This is the real danger with this administration, to start a war thinking it will unite the country

behind him, and defuse the Muller and House investigations.

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Response to still_one (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 08:26 PM

10. Did you think that when President Obama did it?

Cause on this issue there has been no change in policy or actions. The Chinese canít be allowed to anex huge amounts of the ocean. Freedom of the seas was one of the first thing this nation fought for.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:15 PM

14. President Obama was sane and I literally mean that. Trump is NOT.

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Response to still_one (Reply #14)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:35 PM

15. Well, I can't disagree there!

But just like I want to remain a strong NATO partner I want us to maintain our 240 year insistence on the freedom of the seas.

If China is allowed to make the South China Sea part of their hegemony they will control one of the busiest trade routes there is.

We would have sent ships in 1800 to challenge that. Not that we had many!

It would be like us declaring that the Pacific between Hawaii and California in our national boundary. Ok, some hyperbole there! But you get the point.

China does not want a war. But if they can get us to back down over this important issue they will move on from there.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:51 PM

17. and I don't disagree with that. My problem is the person in charge, and his negotiating

skills

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Response to still_one (Reply #17)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:57 PM

18. Wow! Agreement on DU!

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #18)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 12:07 AM

21. the sky is falling!!!!!!!!

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Response to Maxheader (Original post)


Response to Maxheader (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 07:11 PM

7. I would not like to be crewing one of those ships

The two ships are serving as bait while the Navy trolls for a fight with the Chinese. The Spruance is a fifty year old hull and is well past its service life expectancy. The Preble is 25 years old and is in the window as a candidate for decommission.

This is a high stakes gambit that will either get the Chinese to pull back or the Navy is going to tweak their face.

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Response to LawnKorn (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 07:23 PM

8. Imagine crewing some Philippine fishing trawler in those waters.

International waters, of course, but with a Chinese warship bearing down on you ...

https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2018/11/05/1866076/fishing-west-philippine-sea-improbable-chinese-occupation-fishers-group

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Response to LawnKorn (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 07:35 PM

9. They're both less than 20 years old.

Last edited Mon Feb 11, 2019, 08:43 PM - Edit history (1)

The Preble was commissioned in 2002 and the Spruance was commissioned in 2011.

The Navy is planning a 45 year service life for them.

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Response to sl8 (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:14 PM

13. You are right, I was thinking of DD-963

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Response to LawnKorn (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 08:40 PM

12. These are new ships

The Preble and Spruance you are thinking of were decommissioned years ago.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #12)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 03:22 PM

27. Not only that but;

I would take the USN, several hundred years of collective blue water combat experience and two old boats over the ChiCom navy any day of the week.

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Response to jayfish (Reply #27)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 03:23 PM

28. I spent a lot of time in the WESTPAC

I agree with you.

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Response to LawnKorn (Reply #7)

Wed Feb 13, 2019, 11:22 PM

32. I'd be proud to once again serve aboard a US Tin Can.

Sadly my time has long passed.

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Response to denbot (Reply #32)

Thu Feb 14, 2019, 06:35 AM

33. It is fun when you are 23



Not so much when you are 60 (and fully aware of the danger).

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Response to Maxheader (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 08:28 PM

11. I am certain there was outrage when we did the same under President Obama.

Guess I just missed it.

The freedom of the seas has been our national policy since the founding of the nation.

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Response to Maxheader (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:56 PM

20. China is the only nation that recognizes its claim

 

It would be akin to me claiming to be an astronaut.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #20)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 01:53 AM

22. Or Republicans claiming to be intelligent.

Or Trump claiming to be loyal to America.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #20)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 03:14 PM

26. I am a certified astronaut

Just look at my avatar. Could you possibly need any further evidence?

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Response to Maxheader (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 08:49 AM

23. A little more data....2/9/19




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Response to Maxheader (Reply #23)

Wed Feb 13, 2019, 07:02 PM

31. That's a recitation of a Washington Post article from October, 2018.

The incident occurred in September, 2018.

The audio appears to be seems to be a computerized, unauthorized, text to speech reading of this Washington Post article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/chinese-warship-nearly-hits-us-destroyer-in-south-china-sea/2018/10/02/877cc788-c5fb-11e8-9158-09630a6d8725_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.db48da10605c

I wouldn't consider this as a reputable source.


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Response to Maxheader (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 03:11 PM

25. Good for the US Navy.

And Fuck China.

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Response to Maxheader (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 09:53 PM

29. This is a necessary move and the blame for causing this danger rests on China this time.

Plenty can be said about the US and our actions around the globe, but this is on China. They are overstepping boundaries and the US is the only power that can really exert enough pressure to get them back down, or at least slow down. This is why the Obama admin did it and why we would still be doing this if Clinton was in the white house at this time.

Hopefully Trump doesn't try to do anything outside the norms, though. That's always a concern with that idiot.

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Response to Sapient Donkey (Reply #29)

Wed Feb 13, 2019, 08:12 AM

30. Hopefully Trump doesn't try to do anything outside the norms, though. That's always a concern.."


We always hope for "clearer heads" within the military establishment..

Whether a winger administration or a liberal..

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