US warships again challenge Beijing's claims in South China Sea
Source: CNN
(CNN)The United States sailed two warships close to disputed islands in the South China Sea on Monday (Sunday night, ET), a move that is bound to draw the ire of Beijing.
The guided-missile destroyers USS Spruance and USS Preble sailed within 12 nautical miles of the Spratly Islands as part of what the US Navy calls a "freedom of navigation operation."
The operation was carried out "to challenge excessive maritime claims and preserve access to the waterways as governed by international law," Cmdr. Clay Doss, a spokesman for the US Navy's 7th Fleet, told CNN.
"All operations are designed in accordance with international law and demonstrate that the United States will fly, sail and operate wherever international law allows," Doss said, adding "that is true in the South China Sea as in other places around the globe."
Monday's operation was the second in the South China Sea reported by the US Navy this year. In January, the destroyer USS McCampbell sailed within 12 nautical miles of the Paracel Islands.
Shortly after that operation, China accused the US of trespassing in its territorial waters -- and said it had deployed missiles "capable of targeting medium and large ships."
"The US action violated the Chinese laws and international laws, infringed China's sovereignty, damaged regional peace, security, and order," Foreign Ministry spokesperson Lu Kang said at the time. "China will take necessary actions to protect state sovereignty."
Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/10/politics/us-ships-south-china-sea/index.html
Stupid bastard will get us into a war yet...All its going to take is an itchy missile trigger finger on either side...
hack89
(39,171 posts)We have been doing freedom of navigation operations in the South China sea for a very long time - it is not new under Trump.
Maxheader
(4,371 posts)whether actually constructive or otherwise...it screws it up...And with
americu and the chinese doing trade talks now..very important constructive
actions, why mess with pulling the dogs tail?
magicarpet
(14,144 posts).... it came to bombarding the US ship the Liberty flying the American flag in the Mediterranean Sea international waters.
snip:
Both nations officially attributed the attack by Israel as being due to mistaken identification. The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy motor torpedo boats, on 8 June 1967, during the Six-Day War.
end snip, more see link,..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
still_one
(92,116 posts)etc. were preparing to eradicate Israel entirely.
This is not meant to be a defense on the attack on the Liberty, but present context where Israel's very existence was threatened.
Which you like to discuss Iran Air Flight 655, how about the mai lai massacre, the Hama massacre, or perhaps actually discuss the situation that the OP presented?
Cold War Spook
(1,279 posts)I figure it has to be one of two ways. One, Mossad's intel was bad. They wanted to attack the Golan Heights and knew that we would stop sending them supplies if we found out about it before they took the land. So they attacked our spy ship figuring that since it was close to Israel it had to have Hebrew translators aboard. They didn't want it to pick up anything about the Golan Heights. That was the bad intel. All translators aboard were Russian translators. Even if there had been Hebrew translators aboard, we also had Hebrew translators at classified land sites so attacking the ship would have been meaningless. Two, it was all a big mistake. The ship had already been identified and it did not look anything like an Egyptian barge. That is my problem, it has to be one or the other, but neither fits. 1963-1967 a Russian translator with the Army Security Agency working for the National Security Agency.
magicarpet
(14,144 posts)The Israeli pilots dove down into very near the ship to bombard its decks. The American ship sent multiple radio signals identifying itself as an American vessel in international waters with no intent to cause anyone any harm.
It may have been intercepting radio signal traffic but that is not against international laws while in international waters of permissible ship travel.
------
snip....
On 2 October 2007, The Chicago Tribune published a special report[7] into the attack, containing numerous previously unreported quotes from former military personnel with first-hand knowledge of the incident. Many of these quotes directly contradict the NSA's position that it never intercepted the communications of the attacking Israeli pilots, saying that not only did transcripts of those communications exist, but also that it showed the Israelis knew they were attacking an American naval vessel.
Two diplomatic cables written by Avraham Harman, Israel's ambassador in Washington, to Abba Eban, Israel's minister of foreign affairs, have been declassified by Israel and obtained from the Israel State Archive. The first cable, sent five days after the attack, informs Eban that a U.S. informant told him (Harman) that there was "clear proof that from a certain stage the pilot discovered the identity of the ship and continued the attack anyway."[14] The second cable, sent three days later, added that the White House is "very angry" because "the Americans probably have findings showing that our pilots indeed knew that the ship was American."[7]
Documents of the Israeli General Staff meetings, declassified in October 2008, show no discussion of a planned attack on an American ship.[101]
On 30 October 2014, Al Jazeera English broadcast a documentary film containing recent first-hand accounts by several survivors of the incident.[102] The documentary argues that Israel knew the ship was American, and planned to blame its sinking on Egypt in order to draw the US into the war on the Israeli side.
end snip,.. more at link
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
Cold War Spook
(1,279 posts)I have looked up NSA documents over the years. I have a problem with those that have allegedly been declassified. Any report on the attack of a Naval Security Group ship that was important would not have a Secret SAVIN classification. First because it would not have had a SAVIN codeword and second, it would have been TOP SECRET codeword always never just TOP SECRET and not released for a minimum of 50 years after any investigation. Any one on the ship would not have any idea why they were attacked. And since the ships was in contact with NSA and the Israelis would know that NSA was receiving info that they were being attacked by Israelis they knew they could not blame Egypt. Again, I am not taking sides in this because I can not figure out why this took place. Now, I am going to write a sentence that will seem to have no meaning but anyone who served in any branch of the military and worked for NSA will understand and can verify my knowledge of codewords. When I was discharged, I wanted to open a restaurant near NSA headquarters. What would I have called it?
still_one
(92,116 posts)behind him, and defuse the Muller and House investigations.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Cause on this issue there has been no change in policy or actions. The Chinese cant be allowed to anex huge amounts of the ocean. Freedom of the seas was one of the first thing this nation fought for.
still_one
(92,116 posts)GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)But just like I want to remain a strong NATO partner I want us to maintain our 240 year insistence on the freedom of the seas.
If China is allowed to make the South China Sea part of their hegemony they will control one of the busiest trade routes there is.
We would have sent ships in 1800 to challenge that. Not that we had many!
It would be like us declaring that the Pacific between Hawaii and California in our national boundary. Ok, some hyperbole there! But you get the point.
China does not want a war. But if they can get us to back down over this important issue they will move on from there.
still_one
(92,116 posts)skills
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)still_one
(92,116 posts)Response to Maxheader (Original post)
soryang This message was self-deleted by its author.
LawnKorn
(1,137 posts)The two ships are serving as bait while the Navy trolls for a fight with the Chinese. The Spruance is a fifty year old hull and is well past its service life expectancy. The Preble is 25 years old and is in the window as a candidate for decommission.
This is a high stakes gambit that will either get the Chinese to pull back or the Navy is going to tweak their face.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,336 posts)International waters, of course, but with a Chinese warship bearing down on you ...
https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2018/11/05/1866076/fishing-west-philippine-sea-improbable-chinese-occupation-fishers-group
sl8
(13,720 posts)Last edited Mon Feb 11, 2019, 08:43 PM - Edit history (1)
The Preble was commissioned in 2002 and the Spruance was commissioned in 2011.
The Navy is planning a 45 year service life for them.
LawnKorn
(1,137 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)The Preble and Spruance you are thinking of were decommissioned years ago.
jayfish
(10,039 posts)I would take the USN, several hundred years of collective blue water combat experience and two old boats over the ChiCom navy any day of the week.
hack89
(39,171 posts)I agree with you.
denbot
(9,899 posts)Sadly my time has long passed.
LawnKorn
(1,137 posts)Not so much when you are 60 (and fully aware of the danger).
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Guess I just missed it.
The freedom of the seas has been our national policy since the founding of the nation.
GatoGordo
(2,412 posts)It would be akin to me claiming to be an astronaut.
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)Or Trump claiming to be loyal to America.
True Dough
(17,301 posts)Just look at my avatar. Could you possibly need any further evidence?
Maxheader
(4,371 posts)sl8
(13,720 posts)The incident occurred in September, 2018.
The audio appears to be seems to be a computerized, unauthorized, text to speech reading of this Washington Post article:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/chinese-warship-nearly-hits-us-destroyer-in-south-china-sea/2018/10/02/877cc788-c5fb-11e8-9158-09630a6d8725_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.db48da10605c
I wouldn't consider this as a reputable source.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)And Fuck China.
Sapient Donkey
(1,568 posts)Plenty can be said about the US and our actions around the globe, but this is on China. They are overstepping boundaries and the US is the only power that can really exert enough pressure to get them back down, or at least slow down. This is why the Obama admin did it and why we would still be doing this if Clinton was in the white house at this time.
Hopefully Trump doesn't try to do anything outside the norms, though. That's always a concern with that idiot.
Maxheader
(4,371 posts)We always hope for "clearer heads" within the military establishment..
Whether a winger administration or a liberal..