Hitler was a 'good leader,' guest speaker tells N.J. students. School says it won't happen again.

[DirtEdonE]

Source: NJ.com / Advance Media

School officials are expressing regret after a guest speaker displayed a picture of Adolf Hitler and described him as a “good leader" with “bad moral character and intentions" during a weekend presentation to Madison High School student athletes.

Madison Superintendent Mark Schwarz did not identify the speaker in a letter co-signed by three other administrators and sent to parents on Sunday, but said his presentation was not screened in advance and was “unnecessarily provocative and insensitive.”

All Madison High School students playing spring sports were required to attend an assembly Saturday aimed at promoting “positive leadership values and a culture of sportsmanship,” Schwarz wrote in his letter.

The guest speaker, who does not work for the K-12 district, showed pictures of George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Derek Jeter and “other notable positive leaders,” Schwarz wrote. “Conspicuous in this list, however, was a picture of Adolf Hitler shown side by side with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.,” Schwarz wrote."

Read more: https://www.nj.com/news/2019/03/hitler-was-a-good-leader-guest-speaker-tells-nj-students-school-says-it-wont-happen-again.html

---

Throw up while reading the rest at the link.

Where the fuck are we? The Twilight Zone?

If this kind of bullshit is happening in "BLUE" NEW JERSEY can you imagine what the fuck is happening in the "red" states?

I can. I can see it coming like a tsunami.

But by the time you see a tsunami coming, it's too late.

WAKE THE FUCK UP PEOPLE!

nm - it's too late.

[GemDigger]

1. "Madison Superintendent Mark Schwarz did not identify the speaker"

We/Schools need to know the name so that he doesn't get to another school.

[DirtEdonE]

4. +11111

And we need to know who booked that speaker.

[Papyro]

2. Typical Trump supporter

[MuseRider]

3. This could happen anywhere

so what makes you think the red states are worse? You think they are planning Nazis as speakers in red state schools?

We are all awake here, what we do not need is panicky crap like this.

[DirtEdonE]

5. Europe in the 1930s didn't need "panicky crap like this" either

And we ALL know how that worked out, don't we?

Nip it in the bud or enjoy the full flower. Your choice. Our choice.

What if anything else did we learn from the 20th Century?

[MuseRider]

8. This was handled. Right?

Shit like this happens everywhere. Some random guy does this or that. Of course we need to stop it but blaming the places it did not happen that day or stoking panic and fear about the other places that as far as I know did not have a Nazi speaking to them is stupid.

It was nipped in the bud. The guy was stopped. What are you going to do? Go to red states and check all our underwear, our ears or our bank accounts? I was reacting to your reaction. Come on this is just dumb. It was handled and the next one will be handled. There is not a single red state that does not have other people there who would not tolerate this and even R's that are not so dumb that they would not tolerate it either.

[DirtEdonE]

13. I'm sorry but "shit like this"

didn't happen everywhere before trump.

Look it up. This is the "new abnormal" and if you don't recognize it you're going to be swallowed up in the nazi tsunami with the rest of the detritus of society. IMO.

[Jedi Guy]

38. Oh really?

When I was in 5th grade my class read Anne Frank's diary. Our teacher decided to try to explain the Nazis' racial ideology to the class, and decided I'd be the perfect show-and-tell item. You see, when I was a kid, I had white-blond hair (alas, it's gone now) and blue eyes (still have those, at least) and very pale skin. She hauled me up in front of the class and said that I was exactly what the Nazis were looking for in their "Aryan physical ideal."

This was in 1990 or 1991, long before Trump was anything other than a colorful buffoon in NYC. So yes, this shit has been going on long before Trump was anywhere near the White House. Just because you personally didn't hear about it doesn't mean it didn't happen, you know. The panic and doom-crying isn't helpful.

[rpannier]

41. A statement I heard from a few people in the 70's through the 90's

Hitler had some great ideas, he just went too far.
Been around for a long time

[ProfessorGAC]

51. Same Here

But, it's a really dumb comment, because the "good ideas" were a prosperous economy, national pride, strong defense, and a happy population.
Well, duh! Those are the same good ideas nearly everyone has had since the late 18th century.
It's always been in the details and Hitler's details were ALWAYS bad.

[Dixc]

17. Brings a memory of a civics class

I had in eighth grade....every Thursday was film day and they were all about the concentration camps for Jews during WWII. I am sure the instructor was directly affected by that time in history. I know I will never forget the horror I felt seeing these films, but I was very proud that our soldiers were there to stop those grievous acts.

[HopeAgain]

6. What makes him think the Red States are worse?

Is that a serious question?

[MuseRider]

7. With this kind of stuff?

Yes I am serious. There are a lot of red states, mine is one. Things happen here but I rarely hear of anything like this. I would say never but I do not trust my memory that well. There are random jack asses all over the world. This one happened in a blue state so we have to get all freaked out about what the hell must be going on in red states? You will hear about it when it does. This is stupid.

[DirtEdonE]

9. Do I understand your question correctly?

What makes me think the red states are worse?

Do you watch the news? The rallies pootin's puppet holds in the red states?

This is history repeating itself in real time.

Time to start scrubbing the "dissident" slogans from the cobblestones, citizen.

[HopeAgain]

19. It was rhetorical

responding to Muse Rider.

[DirtEdonE]

10. +1 - for some it's too late before it begins. nt

[DirtEdonE]

42. trump rallies mainly make me think they're worse

and they voted for trump. So there's that.

And they're red states.

[canetoad]

46. If you don't pay attention

To the history of how this 'panicky crap' caught hold and led to the camps, you need to do some reading.

Hitler served as a corporal during WW1. When the first war ended, the trench soldiers were baffled; they thought (possibly through propaganda from above) that they were winning.

The disaffected WW1 veterans were Hitler's first target for conversion to Nazism. They embraced the philosophy.

No, we are not all 'awake'. Through history, persuasive leaders have embellished their own point of view and the masses have followed them. DU may be 'awake' but we are a semi-closed community.

[DirtEdonE]

48. +1

The "stab in the back", the "lugen presse", Germany first, etc.

More of the past as prologue.

[MuseRider]

52. Of course canetoad.

I think the poster misrepresented what actually happened. What happened was bad enough and it was not innocent, I was in no way supporting it or supporting ignoring it.

I WAS reacting to the crazy panic talk that followed it. It was stated in the same kind of way you see when you read the other side and they react. It is just plain dumb and scary to say that if something like this is happening in a Blue state my god, my god what is going on in the Red states!!!!!OMG!!!!, which is how this reads. You have been here a long time, as have I. When has that kind of posting ended up in a good way?

Nevermind, I should have known that a thread that misstates the article followed by all kinds of statements with explanation points was not a good place to try to clarify anything. I am not talking about you here, I do not want you to think that.

It is always good to read and respond appropriately and after reading the article and being sickened by it I did not find this poster to have done either of those things.

One more time, **I think the poster misrepresented what actually happened. What happened was bad enough and it was not innocent, I was in no way supporting it or supporting ignoring it, but that I think our response better serves us and the actual fight to not over react and make large assumptions without knowing exactly what happened. I'm out, going to a rally and to lobby today so I will not be responding.

[DirtEdonE]

60. Since the other side keeps winning

Maybe we should be adopting more of their own tactics against them.

Fight fire with fire, as they say. Or keep losing. Whatever.

[mathematic]

12. Bad leaders fail to realize leadership is about results

A lot of conventional wisdom by utterly conventional people, bad leaders, and followers is that the 20th century hit list of authoritarian rulers were all "good leaders" because they gained political power and got their countries to do a bunch of awful shit. "And you must be a good leader to be able to do that!" As if leadership is solely about herding cats. NO, if you drive your herd off a cliff it doesn't matter that you herded them it matters that they're all dead.

From this report, this incident doesn't seem like it's racist in nature. Just some dullard that think good leadership is about getting other people to do what you want them to do.

[DirtEdonE]

14. I don't know -

A lot of evil can be shepherded in like sheep.

[Captain Stern]

15. I won't be rending my garments, or gnashing my teeth over this one.

One speaker, at one school in NJ, displayed really shitty judgement by using Hitler as an example of a good leader with bad intentions.....during a presentation that wasn't screened in advance.

After that, everybody else that was involved in even the remotest way, did the right thing. Parents and students voiced their concerns......the school district agreed with them, and has decided to make it a policy to require that any presentation from an outside speaker or vendor be screened in advance by a school administrator.

To say that anyone should be able to logically infer that worse things are happening in 'red' states because one person in a 'blue' state did something dumb is just silly.

[DirtEdonE]

18. I don't know

Many a sailor has been lost to sea ignoring one early sign of doom.

After WWII back in the 50s our teaches all stressed that this type of abnormal human behavior MUST be nipped in the bud.

Or else we wind up back in 1930s nazi germany.

But hey, maybe things will be different this time.

Never forget?

[LanternWaste]

59. Good thing you believe this is the only instance of this type of behavior...

"To say that anyone should be able to logically infer that worse things are happening in 'red' states because one person in a 'blue' state did something dumb is just silly."

Good thing you believe this is the only instance of this type of behavior. Else, you may be compelled to reassess your sentiment, and additionally layer in both critical and rational thought to your premise as well. But I'm sure your teeth and garments will do fine regardless... I'm sure they thrive on the very hyperbole and melodrama you criticize.

[Captain Stern]

62. Good thing I didn't say that.

Good thing I didn't say that.

[Johnny2X2X]

16. These people are sick

And they are wrong.

Hitler was not only evil and sick, he was a terrible military leader and his numerous blunders cost Germany any chance they had at long term victory.

[DirtEdonE]

20. Sounds a lot like trump. lol nt

[mwb970]

21. What if he had called him a "skilled" or "effective" leader? Still bad?

[Mr.Bill]

24. I'll take "Dangerous Leader"

for $500, Alex.

[Ligyron]

30. Yeah, I mean he must have been effective as a leader.

Otherwise he could not have gotten the entire German nation to accept him as Fuhrer, which I'm sure we all know is the same thing as "the leader".

That's a whole different question that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with being a "good" person. Because he sure as hell wasn't.

[mwb970]

35. Exactly. Using "good" implies an overall favorable judgment.

[RobinA]

55. No It Doesn't

To me it means "he was successful at getting people to follow him." It doesn't imply anything at all about the results of the following. Frankly, I think a "beware of false prophets" approach isn't a horrible lesson, although in today's world it's best to leave Hitler out of it. Everybody knows to be careful when they see a guy with horns, a pitchfork, and a forked tail approaching. But people seem to pretty bad at spotting the devil if he doesn't come sporting the typical devil guise. I'm thinking, oh, just pulling an idea out of the air, of a guy coming along claiming to be a billionaire and the people voting for him because "if he's a billionaire he must be smart."

Unfortunately, we don't seem ready to really analyze and learn from the mid-century Germany example. It's taboo to discuss what happened and the reasons it happened, the only acceptable discourse must begin and end with the requisite homage to "pure evil." As if it were all a big inexplicable supernatural event.

[mwb970]

58. Easy now.

I just meant that "good" is a very broad term. When you say that someone is a good boss or a good manager, the implication is that they are a good person. You don't hear "He's a good boss, but he's a terrible person" very often.

[cstanleytech]

33. I would hardly call him "skilled" as he led Germany into another major war and defeat.

Effective? Depends what you think effective means. I suppose if you mean he was effective at murdering millions of innocent men, women and children then yes he was effective.

[sarisataka]

22. That would be

A very interesting topic for a different venue, such as an ethics class.

It is not appropriate for a leadership seminar for high school athletes.

[TNNurse]

23. So a speaker was booked without screening?

Or someone screened and thought this was acceptable???

[ArizonaLib]

26. Either way, more personnel resources and better pay would

reduce the chances of exposing kids to propaganda instead of proper scholastic material.

[louis-t]

25. Sickening.

[tclambert]

27. Hey, Hitler liked puppies. Trump does not like puppies. So, see? Very different.

[DirtEdonE]

49. Plus, hitler had a moustache. trump doesn't like moustaches. nt

[C Moon]

28. Everyone in the room misheard him...he said Hitler wore good lederhosen.

[ancianita]

29. Fire the principal, who's responsible for curricula via advance lesson plans, testing, etc.

The community should wake up and arrange to investigate/interview the principal and all supervisors who act on his/her behalf with faculty.

This was really not only on the teacher but the principal.

[DirtEdonE]

50. "It won't happen again" doesn't cut it, IMO

I was a bit surprised at some of the comments downplaying this.

This is just one more of the many signs we're witnessing. We ignore them at our own risk, IMO.

Here's another:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211933206

[ancianita]

54. If a community underreacts, it allows the growth of what I call the soft bigotry of low expectations

Which allows all manner of normalizations of low valuation of humans ( Hitler was a good leader?? ), unexamined ideas, thought, low performance and a low esteem from others that students don't even realize they accommodate.

More objective oversight by a parent-community-teacher organization can take in complaints, do interviews and help maintain a positive, forward-thinking learning climate in the school. Even develop a flexible model for other communities to use.

No one wants censorship of ideas or visitors in schools. Freedom of speech should be valued.

But the community must also demand that principals, as "instructional leaders" (which I think they rarely are), and classroom professionals notice historically bad language or ideas tossed out in that setting, during any learning event, and immediately examine words like "good" and "leader" with his/her students.

A whole other lesson could have been learned by both students and their visitor.

[cstanleytech]

32. Well he really "was" a good leader.

Or atleast he was if you think being a mass murdering psychopath is "good".

[Dr Vegas]

34. My Old Home Town,

Next up, Madison High School's Spring Production of "Springtime for Hitler".

BTW my old High School "Bayley-Ellard" (also in Madison NJ) was taken down with an Sex Abuse Scandal many years back...,

[Dr Vegas]

36. and "How" was This suppose to reflect Positive Values and a Culture of Sportsmanship?

Sorry don't buy it, .
Was there a mention of Jessie Owens at the 1936 Berlin Olympic Games?
Did the speaker show the clip from "Cabaret" of Germans singing "The Future Belongs To Me"?
Why not just show the Student Athletes the Nazi Propaganda film "The Triumph of the Will"?

The Speaker needs to be identified, but not given a platform to explain himself/ he will just use it promote his own agenda.
The School Board or whoever hired this person, needs to explain their process for selecting people to interact with their students.

In the future ALL materials should be previewed

[Blue Owl]

37. And a very fine person, according to Blump

n/t

[Honeycombe8]

39. Uh-huh. We're not imagining things. They're trying to start another Nazi state. nt

[Joe Bacon]

40. Candace again?

Wouldn't shock me...

[Stuart G]

43. The Guest Speaker has been identified..He is an Athletic Direct of a High School.

Longtime Nutley High Athletic Director Joe Piro

[Stuart G]

44. Speaker is Athletic Director of Nutley High School in New Jersey. JOE PIRO...Where is .Nutley NJ ?

So Nutley High is in some isolated back forest of New Jersey??

Did the Athletic Director Joe Piro get lost in the forest?...or in a swamp? or lost in some kind of corn field ?

NO...NUTLEY HIGH SCHOOL....are you ready?.... IS ABOUT 7 MILES.. DUE WEST OF MANHATTAN, WHICH IS an island in a PLACE CALLED.......................................
..ARE YOU READY?.....IN A PLACE CALLED.......NEW YORK CITY.. .

Manhattan is the most densely populated of New York City’s 5 boroughs. So this fellow works in a place that is 7 miles due west of this country's most populated city and perhaps one of the most famous cities in the world. He can't be very smart..

YES, 7 MILES DUE WEST OF NEW YORK CITY..THAT IS WHERE THIS HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETIC DIRECTOR WORKS....

...so stupid can be found everywhere. ..and there is an extra note that says the Athletic Director, Joe Piro , has apologized for using Adolph Hitler in a speech about .."Good Leaders"

No as many others have said...You can't make this up..

[Denzil_DC]

45. Prominent NJ sports official admits making Hitler remark, apologizes for calling him a 'good leader'

Longtime Nutley High Athletic Director Joe Piro, who admitted Tuesday he was the guest speaker who described Adolf Hitler as a “good leader” during a presentation at Madison High, apologized for his remarks and said he was trying to make a point that badly missed the mark.

Piro’s apology comes three days after he gave a presentation on leadership to student athletes at Madison High and used Hitler as an example of a “good leader” with “bad moral character and intentions.” During the presentation, Piro showed images of notable leaders, including a picture of Hitler shown side by side with Martin Luther King Jr.

Piro said he was trying to “make a point that a leader could have strong leadership skills that influence people in a negative way."

“The presentation was not to offend anyone in or outside the Madison public school district. I am truly sorry if I did,” Piro said. “As a 20-year educator who has worked with a wide variety of students that come from very diverse backgrounds, I fully understand and recognize that Adolf Hitler was an evil man who used his skills in a horrific manner.”

https://www.nj.com/essex/2019/03/prominent-nj-athletic-official-admits-making-hitler-comments-apologizes-for-remarks.html

[ExciteBike66]

53. Hitler WAS a good leader...of a cult.

As others have pointed out, "leadership" is about more than just getting people to do stuff you want.

[RobinA]

56. Isn't That Rather The Point? n/m

*

[DirtEdonE]

61. For all those who are over-thinking/tacitly excusing/accepting this

You have very short memories.

The repubicans when absolutely NUTS when our newly elected Democratic president wanted to give a standard presidential back-to-school speech.

Shoe on the other foot people. Shoe on the other foot - lol - your feet are bare.

The man had to cancel the speech for fuck's sake. But many of you seem to have no problem with hitler next to Dr. King other than to say I over reacted.

There is NO over reacting to this shit. Ask any Holocaust survivor.

Or President Obama.

Many conservatives enraged over Obama school speech

National PTA president calls uproar over President Obama's speech sad
Conservatives object to Obama's speech to schoolchildren, say it's propaganda
Educators find themselves at center of debate over next week's address
White House says speech will urge students to study hard and stay in school

updated 8:32 a.m. EDT, Sat September 5, 2009

By Alan Silverleib
CNN

"CNN -- The White House found itself on the defensive Friday over what would ordinarily be considered the most uncontroversial of events: a back-to-school speech to the nation's children.

The White House said the address, set for Tuesday, and accompanying suggested lesson plans are simply meant to encourage students to study hard and stay in school.

Many conservative parents aren't buying it. They're convinced the president is going to use the opportunity to press a partisan political agenda on impressionable young minds.

"Thinking about my kids in school having to listen to that just really upsets me," suburban Colorado mother Shanneen Barron told CNN Denver affiliate KMGH. "I'm an American. They are Americans, and I don't feel that's OK. I feel very scared to be in this country with our leadership right now."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/04/obama.schools/

Obama’s Back-To-School Address Spurs Mixed Reactions
September 08, 2009 03:00 PM
by Anita Gutierrez-Folch

"Due to parental concern, The Associated Press reports that “[d]istricts in states including Texas, Illinois, Minnesota, Missouri, Virginia and Wisconsin have decided not to show the speech to students,” in spite of urging from Education Secretary Arne Duncan. Other districts are allowing parents to let their children opt out of viewing the speech, according to the AP."

http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/Americas/2009/september/Obama-s-Back-To-School-Address-Spurs-Mixed-Reactions-.html

How's that for over reacting? LOFL

[FiveGoodMen]

63. "There is NO over reacting to this shit."

Couldn't agree more.

We face the same enemy as in WWII.

But now they're inside our borders.

[DirtEdonE]

64. +1 nt