US IDENTIFIES ANTI-MUSLIM FILMMAKER

[kpete]

Source: Associated Press

Sep 13, 9:26 PM EDT

US IDENTIFIES ANTI-MUSLIM FILMMAKER
BY STEPHEN BRAUN AND EILEEN SULLIVAN
ASSOCIATED PRESS


WASHINGTON (AP) -- Federal authorities identified a Southern California man who is on federal probation for financial crimes as the key figure behind an anti-Muslim film that has spawned mob violence against American embassies across the Mideast, a U.S. law enforcement official told The Associated Press on Thursday.

There was no sign of Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, 55, at his family's home Thursday in Cerritos outside Los Angeles, as details slowly began to emerge about his checkered past, his connections among Southern California's right-wing Christian organizations and his central role in the production of the film.

Excerpts from the movie, which the filmmaker said was called "Innocence of Muslims," enraged Islamic protesters in Egypt, Libya and Yemen over its portrayal of the prophet Muhammad.

Attorney General Eric Holder confirmed Thursday that the Justice Department had opened a criminal investigation into the deaths of the U.S. ambassador to Libya and three other diplomats killed during an attack on the American mission in Benghazi. It was not immediately clear whether authorities were focusing on Nakoula as part of that probe.

Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_EGYPT_FILMMAKER?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-09-13-05-55-40

[virgogal]

1. How could the filmaker be part of the probe into the deaths?

[HooptieWagon]

2. Inciting to riot.

Violating probation. Possibly fraud.

[cstanleytech]

12. But since said riot took place in an entirely different country would that even hold up in court?

Also how is making a film a parole violation? Fraud? How did he commit fraud?

[Kablooie]

33. Americans died as a result and possibly on American soil (The Embassy)

[cstanleytech]

38. A crime that started in another country and it could be argued that its not his fault the people

decided to riot and commit acts of murder if his film did not advocate that they do so.

[ehrnst]

66. They were notified that they would likely be inciting riots by American authorities in Egypt

Terry Jones went ahead, and promoted the film wearing a black tee shirt that said "Infidel" in Arabic.

Afterwards, all of them (that could be found) stated that they were not surprised, that all Muslims are "pre-incited" to violence at any criticism of Islam.

Jones has a history of trying to prove that Muslims are violent, and is gloating that this proves his point.

They intended to incite violence, he was told that it would likely incite violence, they willfully and consciously disregarded the warnings, and went ahead. Violence ensued, people were killed, and they are gloating.

Wrongful death suit at the very least, for the known and intended consequences of their actions.

[cstanleytech]

75. Interesting but since it took place in Libya would they still be liable for criminal charges or

do you think they largely face civil ones like in a lawsuit?

[Firebrand Gary]

35. On sentencing he was banned from using the internet or a computer for 5 years! nt

Parole violation!

[cstanleytech]

37. Well now, if thats the case his butt might well be heading back to jail.

[randome]

53. If he coordinated with the rioters, or whoever was behind them, then he needs to be prosecuted.

Otherwise, yeah, I wouldn't see much hope of calling it a parole violation.

[Bluenorthwest]

59. The fraud is an earlier conviction, and he was prohibited from internet use as part of his parole.

He committed fraud using the internet.

[HooptieWagon]

68. Inciting foreigners to riot is a national security issue.

And a condition of probation for check-kiting was to stay off the internet for 5 years, which he broke by posting the video on YouTube. And also for probation, he was ordered to pay $750,000 in restitution. So where did money for film come from?

[joeglow3]

70. How about that pro-choice protestor?

After all, we know the loons on the Christian right will murder an abortion doctor over it. Should we charge all pro-choice protestors for Tiller's death.

This is a stupid, knee-jerk, slippery slope people want to start us down.

[kestrel91316]

4. Prosecutors have the right to investigate to see if any charges are warranted.

That's how it works in the US.

You didn't know this??????

[Aristus]

3. "Inciting a riot".

That's a crime, right?

Throw the book at the bastard...

[trouble.smith]

14. Bullshit. Last time I checked this was America & free speech was protected -even offensive speech.

and; furthermore, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.

[blogslut]

16. About your "furthermore"

Do tell us more.

[trouble.smith]

20. Among other things, congress may pass no law giving preferential treatment to one religion

over another.

[blogslut]

45. I'm fully aware of the 1st Amendment

However, it reads that congress may not establish a religion nor impede a citizen's right to practice his/her religion.

I'm still not sure what point you're trying to make? Are you implying that investigating hatemongers is somehow unconstitutional because those hatemongers hide behind supposed religious beliefs? Or are you implying that by investigating hatemongers, our government is favoring followers of Islam over hatemongers?

[trouble.smith]

48. That's not really how "it reads":

How it reads is: "Congress shall pass no law respecting an establishment of religion which means, among ,many other things, they may pass no law which gives preferential treatment to one religious establishment over another; that being the case, passing a law which prohibits speaking out against Muhammad and Islam means that we may no longer speak out against ANY religion and as far as I'm concerned, that's one giant leap backwards into the middle fucking ages and I don't particularly want to visit that reality because I like being able to call the religious nuts on their bullshit.

[blogslut]

50. Do you really think this man is being investigated because he spoke against Islam?

Really? Do you think it's that simple?

[Missycim]

71. Yes it is that simple

He made a video critical of Islam and the crazies went nuts. He didn't make a video saying "burn down embassies" or I think rioting is grand.

I am really shocked at the level of disrespect that some have here for the 1st amendment if what was said is something you they don't like.

[MrModerate]

18. However, there are restrictions on hate speech . . .

And inciting to riot, and shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre.

So there are subtleties.

That having been said, I don't think those would apply in this case. However, if there are financial shenanigans associated with financing of the firm, that might be actionable, even if that has nothing to to with the offense (but not crime) of being an incredible dickhead.

[trouble.smith]

21. expressing disbelief in the tenets of a religion is not shouting fire in a crowded theater

not by any stretch of the imagination.

[MrModerate]

23. My point exactly.

I believe they're interested because there may be some (unspecified) crime associated with this individual which is unlikely to be to have anything to do with free speech issues.

[trouble.smith]

24. which seems an awful lot like an attempt to supress free speech through intimidation

in other words, we can't arrest you for speaking freely but we can turn your life upside down looking for something we can arrest you for and then make an example out of you to any others who might want to speak freely.

[Zoeisright]

31. Oh bullshit. Inciting violence using religion is called a hate crime.

[trouble.smith]

44. Au contraire, comitting violence in the name of your religion is the hate crime

whereas peacefully expressing one's opinions on the tenets of a particular religion is a halmark of a free and civilized society. You couldn't be more backwards on this.

[Warren Stupidity]

56. Inciting violence.

Brandenburg v Ohio.

The U.S. Supreme Court reversed Brandenburg's conviction, holding that government cannot constitutionally punish abstract advocacy of force or law violation. The majority opinion was per curiam (issued from the Court as an institution rather than as authored and signed by an individual justice). The earlier draft had originally been prepared by Justice Abe Fortas before he was forced to resign in the midst of an ethics scandal, and would have included a modified version of the clear and present danger test. In finalizing the draft, Justice Brennan eliminated all references to it, substituting instead the "imminent lawless action" language.[2] Justices Black and Douglas concurred separately.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio

This film does not even approach the boundaries of a criminal act.

[Xithras]

74. Err...there are no legal hate speech laws in the United States. None.

Many other nations have them, but in the USA speech is not a hate crime. Attempts to pass laws restricting hate speech have been vigorously and consistently slapped down by the courts as violations of the First Amendment. Understand that the courts have SPECIFICALLY RULED that the First Amendment even covers most cases of incitement, and calls for violence against the government or against minorities and specific groups. It IS federally protected speech.

There are only three general exceptions to this:

1) Fighting words/incitement: If I call a black person a n***** to their face and they hit me, my speech can be considered the first assault. Why? Because my speech was specifically designed to provoke a fight. Before you jump on this, understand that the courts have NEVER allowed a conviction over this when speech causes later violence. It can ONLY be applied when the violence occurs immediately and in the presence of the speaker. That's it. Full stop.

2) The 1964 Civil Rights Act carved out an exception for the workplace. Employers have a responsibility to provide a non-hostile work environment to their employees. If one employee is engaging in hate speech and the employer does not intervene, the slandered target has legal standing to take them to court. If it happens repeatedly, the government can take actions against the employer.

3) Hate speech that occurs during the commission of a crime can allow the crime to be upgraded to a hate crime. It's important to note the difference here...the SPEECH isn't a criminal offense, but the seriousness of the OTHER crime they are committing is increased because the speech indicates an illegal motive. Shooting you is one crime. Shooting you simply because you're hispanic is a more serious crime. Hate speech while shooting allows prosecutors to levy the more serious charges, because it demonstrates your motive.

[Heywood J]

55. You should look again.

It's improper to say a lot of things - you can't break an NDA without a world of shit, you can't disclose anything with a classification stamp on it, you can't slander people, you can't have a conspiracy to something, etc. etc. etc.

[ehrnst]

67. His speech was protected - no one stopped him.

But speech is action. If the consequences of one's actions is violence, and that consequence was known and violence occured, then there can be repurcussions, in the way of civil lawsuits for the consequences of the speech.

Free speech is safe if this guy gets slammed for wrongful death by the family.

[trouble.smith]

25. That's called appeasement and it doesn't work or so history tells us.

[SCVDem]

36. Our embassies and consulates

are considered to be U.S. property so I don't think the foreign nation defense will work.

[HooptieWagon]

69. Embassies yes, consulates no.

However, he did endanger US citizens despite being warned of the consequences of the film. He knew it would provoke outrage, that was his intent, and the reason he tried to cover his involvement (aliases,etc.).

[Ter]

72. Way too vague

Suppose you make a pro-abortion movie, and right-wing nuts riot. Are you responsible for inciting a riot?

[4th law of robotics]

73. Is he responsible for the actions of others?

Consider: we have had movies and art that are equally offensive to Jews and Christians.

They did not respond this way. So no crime.

Right?

And yet he is guilty of a crime you say. If so then the standard is not based on any objective criteria of offensiveness but rather the disproportionate response of the aggrieved.

That seems awfully subjective to me. You never know how the public will respond to what you say. And this does sort of reward this kind of behavior. If you do nothing and behave appropriately it is fair to denigrate your beliefs. If you riot and kill people you will be protected.

That seems backwards.

[Firebrand Gary]

5. Where did the funding come from? Who distributed/advertised the film in these Muslim countries?

Surely if the rest of us can live under legislation like the Patriot Act then the United States can know everything about this guy, his friends, family, associates, acquaintances and donors!

His entire communication record should be subject to investigation!

[George II]

11. It was on Youtube, not "distributed" or advertised in ANY country

[Firebrand Gary]

15. I refuse to believe that it caught fire by word of mouth! Whatever!

This film was created for a political purpose, that is a fact and has already been agreed to. So the question is, how did this film catch on in the Middle East?

Unknown authors do not write books so they can immediately become hidden in some old dirty library.

[Bluenorthwest]

60. Much information at this link...

From the piece:
Sheik Khaled Abdalla
"A fiery Egyptian TV host on the Islamist satellite TV channel al-Nas, Abdalla is reported to have set off the outrage when he broadcast a clip of the movie trailer that showed the man playing Muhammad."

Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/09/13/friends-of-sam-bacile-a-whos-who-of-the-innocence-of-muslims-film-project/#ixzz26RtQdHp6

[Bernardo de La Paz]

28. Nakoula just a fall guy. Keyman: Joseph Nassralla. (DU & Kos thread links)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=229142

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/13/1131422/-Nakoula-just-a-fall-guy-Keyman-Joseph-Nassralla

[Democat]

6. And he tried to blame "100 jews" for his own dirty work?

Will Romney be outraged that this guy tried to blame Israel?

[Firebrand Gary]

19. This is where (IMHO) this story really takes flight.

On the surface it almost seems that Israel was supposed to have been blamed for this film. Whats the intent behind that? Was he trying to get a backlash going against Israel? Interesting....very interesting considering the recent language and behavior coming from Netanyahu and Danny Danon.

[leftynyc]

49. Gee - what could it have been

A religious Christian makes a movie deningrating Muslims and allows the news that it was done with the help of 100 wealthy Jews. What possibly could have been his motive? Stretching my brain.

[K8-EEE]

7. "right wing Christian organizations" hmmmm wanna bet he's a GOP operative too.

If he had ties to Romney or one of his PACs that would be the END.

[BlueStreak]

22. I'd be surprised because not many Christian extremists want to associate with Romney

But nonetheless, several things are becoming clear.

a) Romney had all of his facts messed up. There really wasn't a single thing he said in his original release and his following news conference that was correct. He was wrong on every important element of his claim. See http://factcheck.org/2012/09/romney-gets-it-backward/

b) It was right-wing Christian zealots who created the mess that is hitting multiple embassies in that region (but not the Libyan attack), so once again President Obama is having to clean up a big mess created by these right-wingers.

c) It appears the Libyan situation was a well-organized act of terrorism that had nothing to do with the movie or any statement released by the Egyptian embassy. Considering how badly Romney has the essential facts mixed up, and the apparent fact that we have just suffered a deadly terrorist attack, Romney really, really should shut his pie-hole until he can say something intelligent.

[hifiguy]

64. Follow the money.

Somebody bankrolled this asshat. Knowing who might be verrrrry interesting.

[Historic NY]

8. He is just the dupe behind this...

[Bernardo de La Paz]

29. Yup. Nakoula just a fall guy. Keyman: Joseph Nassralla. (DU & Kos thread links)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=229142

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/13/1131422/-Nakoula-just-a-fall-guy-Keyman-Joseph-Nassralla

[Kolesar]

58. Apparently, my voodoo incantations haven't stopped the hearts of Pamela Geller and Daniel Pipes

of the "Ground Zero Mosque" campaign ilk

[Bluenorthwest]

62. You do understand that the choices are not 'the only guilty party' or 'dupe', right?

'Dupe' means 'a victim of deception' and this man, while clearly not the sole participant, was not deceived. Not a victim, a criminal working with other criminals with bad intention. An accomplice is not a dupe.

[Historic NY]

65. Well there is one more word to describe him then but I'll wait for further investigation...

A person who functions as the tool of another person or power is also a dupe.

[SoapBox]

9. Some crazy christians

up to no good.

They didn't do this crap, just for the fun of it.

[sofa king]

10. From the all-caps, we can guess AP is PISSED

[chill_wind]

27. Or that they're just high-fiving themselves

and trumpeting their role in this big "scoop", when it could be the guy's just a dupe.

Serious questions:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=229142

[sofa king]

57. They got snookered pretty bad.

If I recall correctly, AP floated two erroneous and mutually contradictory stories based upon the disinformation first provided by people involved with this film.

They're shouting because they want the record to note the one time that they got it right, not the previous attempts where they carried the US right-wing's water and launched a campaign of disinformation which has been used by the AM dial against the President for days now.

[Ford_Prefect]

13. There is a much larger group of players they need to investigate.

Inside the strange Hollywood scam that spread chaos across the Middle East

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/13/egypt-libya-hollywood-film

Including who financed it and who promoted to online video.

[azurnoir]

34. Thanks for the link Ford

and it also mentioned what I've been thinking since this guys identity(s) were revealed "Mubarak"

Produced and promoted by a strange collection of rightwing Christian evangelicals and exiled Egyptian Copts, the trailer was created with the intention of both destabilizing post-Mubarak Egypt and roiling the US presidential election. As a consultant for the film named Steve Klein said: "We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen."

I'm that among other things these guys are proMubarak kind of like the proShah Iranians in the US

it also mentions their ties to the king and queen of Islamaphobia Pam Geller and Robert Spence

Welcome to DU

[chill_wind]

42. Holy crap! If that's an accurate quote, it almost reads like a confession!

"Produced and promoted by a strange collection of rightwing Christian evangelicals and exiled Egyptian Copts, the trailer was created with the intention of both destabilizing post-Mubarak Egypt and roiling the US presidential election. As a consultant for the film named Steve Klein said: "We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen."

[David__77]

47. Confession? And so...

Just because you think there might be a violent reaction to something does NOT mean that the action itself would be illegal - not by any means. In parts of Mississippi, two gay men holding hands might start some violence, but the gay couple shouldn't be arrested! A democratic society must tolerate provocateurs.

[lexx21]

54. But why would Copts have a part in this...

The Egyptian Muslims actually stood as human shields for the Coptic Christians during their church services because of extremist violence toward them. It's not like the populous of Egypt is slowly marching toward them chanting "Imhotep....Imhotep".

[Bluenorthwest]

61. There is much, much history between the two groups.

Too much to go into, you should read up.

[Live and Learn]

43. Wow, this is some bizarre cast of characters

and they live a little to close for comfort to me.


From the article you cited:

Before Nakoula was unmasked, the only person to publicly claim any role in the film was Klein, an insurance salesman and Vietnam veteran from Hemet, California, who emerged from the same Islamophobic movement that produced the Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik. Styling themselves as "counter-Jihadists", anti-Muslim crusaders like Klein took their cues from top propagandists like Pamela Geller, the blogger who once suggested that Barack Obama was the lovechild of Malcolm X, and Robert Spencer, a pseudo-academic expert on Muslim radicalization who claimed that Islam was no more than "a developed doctrine and tradition of warfare against unbelievers". Both Geller and Spencer were labeled hate group leaders by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Klein is an enthusiastic commenter on Geller's website, Atlas Shrugged, where he recently complained about Mitt Romney's "support for a Muslim state in Israel's heartland". In July 2011, Spencer's website, Jihad Watch, promoted a rally Klein organized to demand the firing of Los Angeles County sheriff Lee Baca, whom he painted as a dupe for the Muslim Brotherhood.

On his personal Facebook page, Altar or Abolish, Klein obsesses over the Muslim Brotherhood, describing the organization as "a global network of Muslims attacking to convert the world's 6 billion people to Islam or kill them". Klein urges a violent response to the perceived threat of Islam in the United States, posting an image to his website depicting a middle-American family with a mock tank turret strapped to the roof of their car. "Can you direct us to the nearest mosque?" read a caption Klein added to the photo.

In 2011, during his campaign to oust Sheriff Baca, Klein forged an alliance with Joseph Nasrallah, an extremist Coptic broadcaster who shared his fear and resentment of the Muslim Brotherhood. Nasrallah appeared from out of nowhere at a boisterous rally against the construction of an Islamic community center in downtown Manhattan on September 11, 2010, warning a few hundred riled-up Tea Party types that Muslims "came and conquered our country the same way they want to conquer America".

[PD Turk]

26. on federal probation for financial crimes

I'm betting this guy's gonna sing like a bird

[chill_wind]

30. And a meth cooker, apparently, by earlier profession.

What a charmer.

[PD Turk]

32. Sounds like a guy who would do anything for a buck

I have little doubt he got some bucks for this and I'd love to see haw far back the money can be followed

[xfundy]

39. Few things pay as well

as promoting hatred and violence through use and abuse of religion. Besides, the date can hardly be a coincidence.

[winstars]

40. All the local news stations in LA-Orange county are camped outside his house...

On the 11:00pm news, it was sorta hard to hear the reporter in front of the house due to the ubiquitous half a dozen news helicopters above...

He wanted to start some bullshit, well he has got it now...

Even if he is the fall guy for that other scumbag in NY...

Oh and the local news said that the other scumbag, Steve Klein has stopped doing his arrogant interviews and has dropped out of sight.

Very good ABC story with new facts:


http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/anti-islam-film-producer-wrote-script-prison-authorities/story?id=17230609

[Kennah]

41. Seems very unlikely the film would meet the Brandenburg imminent lawless action test

[David__77]

46. This doesn't look good. There's no "there" to investigate.

Unless there truly is some Byzantine scheme that itself involves illegal activity or connection to foreign intelligence agencies (which I find doubtful), there's nothing warranting federal investigation.

[Ford_Prefect]

51. He's on parole from doing federal time.

Anything he does can be questioned as if he were still inside. He's under that set of rules until he completes the supervision period.

It seems likely that the people who put this together colluded to achieve the results. They have acted in the past with publicly stated expectations of reaction and civil warfare.

I think it is a fair question to look into the funding and political connections of the producers-given those stated intentions. It would not be the first time agit-prop materials were made here to suit agendas elsewhere. It would not be the first time the Neo-Cons behind a candidate used hate group activity to push their agenda either.

[muriel_volestrangler]

52. He probably broke his federal parole conditions of not using the internet without permission

The article goes into detail about that. Since the trailer was put on YouTube by 'Sam Bacile', it seems there's is something there to investigate.

[Bluenorthwest]

63. I do not agree. To make the film they had to defraud and

misrepresent themselves and the film, the CA guy has prior conviction for and is on parole from check fraud.
There is no way a person could make that film openly in the US and obtain the facilities, the talent (no matter how horrid) and the entire project would have been one fraud after another.