At voter-ID hearing, Pa. justices have tough questions and a surprise

[trailmonkee]

Source: Philadelphia Inquirer

The state Supreme Court's long-awaited hearing on Pennsylvania's voter-ID law was going pretty much as expected when Justice Thomas G. Saylor, a white-haired veteran jurist from Somerset County, brought a new issue into the long-running controversy.

He'd been reading the law himself, Saylor told chief deputy attorney general John G. Knorr 3d, and he questioned whether the commonwealth was actually following the precise requirements of the voter-ID law passed last March – specifically, a provision that requires the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation to provide a nondriver photo ID card to any registered voter who swears that he needs it for voting purposes.

To the surprise of many in the standing-room-only courtroom in City Hall, Knorr agreed with the justice.

The federal government's Homeland Security laws forced PennDot to require some additional proof before providing citizens with identification cards, Knorr explained, so the agency could not comply with that provision of the law.

That was part of the reason the state came up with yet another form of photo ID, never mentioned in the voter-ID law, that became available to the public in late August, Knorr said.


Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/20120914_In_voter-ID_hearing__Pa__justices_have_tough_questions_and_a_surprise.html

[trailmonkee]

9. nicely worded too....

[Surya Gayatri]

2. Thanks, tm, for keeping us up-to-date on this crucial legal battle.

[Hubert Flottz]

3. K&R

[Ian_rd]

4. This is all such theater, but with real consequences

The Republicans know the real purpose of these laws, but will not say it because the truth would expose their nature as undemocratic thugs. The Democrats know the real purpose of these laws, but have a hard time saying it because such a strong accusation against their political opponents is impolite. And the media know the real purpose of these laws, but won't say it because they long ago surrendered their role in our democracy to inform the public and instead settled for the less expensive role of being fact-neutral political commentators.

Meanwhile, many thousands will lose their right to vote this year, to supposedly combat a threat that does not exist.

[stlsaxman]

5. Leave the new bill until this election is OVER!

Chief Justice Ronald D. Castille, regarded as a possible swing vote among the six justices, asked few questions and gave no indication of how quickly the court might reach a decision.

Let us inundate Chief Justice Castille with letters demanding he allows those "legally registered" to vote- to vote. Period.

[Cosmocat]

6. They are craven idiots

They have NO clue what they are doing with this bill and the ramifications of it.

All they are focused on is Philadpelphia and trying to squash the democratic vote, with their underlying rationalization being all these horrible things they think go on in Philadelphia that the bill does not even address.

[CoffeeCat]

7. Something that may be related

I happened to notice the list of states in which Romney is discontinuing ad buys--and the states that he's doubling down on. I started doing a bit of research, and haven't finished, but this is what I preliminarily noticed:

Pennsylvania is one of the nixed states. So is Michigan. Romney is behind in Michigan and is not expected to win. PA gets a bit trickier. Romney is behind -- but, as we all know, this voter-ID legislation is pending.

After looking at this information on the OP, I can understand why Romney may feel that PA is a lost cause. It's highly probable, and I'm sure they know this--that the ruling won't be in favor of voter ID/voter suppression. The Romney campaign knows more about what will likely happen than we do, based on all of the legal and campaign experts with which he surrounds himself. Also, they probably know these judges and how they rule---and if they can be manipulated. All kinds of info. My guess is that they know PA voter ID laws aren't going their way. So they pulled out--because they no longer can rely on voter-suppression to win the day for them.

It looks like most of the states that Romney is doubling down in--are states that have pending voter ID laws. Isn't that incredible??? I'm still looking at this and I'm sure others are as well. It appears that they realize that their only hope is to squeak by in states that that have tight races (or where they're slightly behind) and allow voter suppression take care of the rest.

It's enough to make you want to hurl.

[DavidL]

8. That's quite a good summary of the situation but...

I'm not so sure Romney has any very well informed advisors on his team. They have been doing a poor job of advising him.

I think it's quite probable that the PA supreme court will issue a "STAY" on the enforcement of the law, for two more years, due to the sheer impracticality of properly executing the law effectively in the next 7 weeks. That's a moderate course for the court to take, not exactly thumbing their nose at the PA legislature, but ruling in the direction of fairness for all voters in PA this year.

Perhaps the Romney team has people smart enough to reason that out. But I don't see many smart people on the Romney team.

[happyslug]

10. You are forgetting one of reasons for good Challegner to an incumbent President

That is to get out the vote for people further down the ballot. Thus Romney was picked not only because the GOP thought he MAY win the election, his being on the ballot will bring out GOP voters who will vote for Senators, Members of the House and anyone else on the ballot. In many ways, 2008 was going to be a Democratic Year, thus the GOP ran McCain, not because he was their first choice, but because he was popular enough to help candidates down the ballot (Which can include the local Dog Catcher if he is up for election).

You must also understand Gerrymandering. Ideal Gerrymandering is to put 90-100% of people likely to vote for the opposition into one district and then give the Districts you want to win 60% of people likely to vote for your party. For example, if you had three districts each with 30 voters (90 Total) 45 for GOP 45 for Democrats. You put 30 Democrats into one District, which the Democrat will win handily, but the other two Districts have only 15 Democrats between them, and 45 Republicans, thus the GOP will win both Districts and outvote the Democrat. Now in real life, the numbers used are closer to 90% into Districts you are conceding, but 60-40 in districts you need to win. Thus a drop off in voters for your side AND a pull of voters for the other side can put some of these districts into contention. This election has that Potential for Obama supporters and the GOP knew this from the last election. Thus the concern is NOT the Presidential Election but the Re-election of Casey, how wins the Congressional delegation from Pennsylvania as while as the State House and Senate (The GOP controlled the State House and Senate in 2000 as while as today and thus most seats are gerrymandered to be pro-GOP but not by a safe enough number that many can NOT be lost if Democrats come out in force and Republicans don't vote).

Thus this voter ID is to secure GOP seats in the State House and Senate, as while as the Federal House of Representatives, more then winning Romney Pennsylvania. Romney in Pennsylvania is on the Ballot to get people out to vote for President and then further down the Ballot. In many ways Casey is more the target of Voter ID then Obama, for Casey needs those Philadelphia Votes.

Furthermore, if you remember Florida in 2000, when the Newspapers got together and did a recount on their own (After the election and the Supreme Court's Decision saying no re-count will be considered) Gore picked up the votes he needed to win IN THE RURAL GOP CONTROLLED COUNTIES not the urban Democratic controlled counties. Rural Pennsylvania tends to vote GOP, but a solid 20-33% vote Democratic. In many ways, it is these Rural Democrats that the GOP want to de-enfranchise for their votes can put Casey over the top even while Casey is losing whatever county the rural Democrats are voting in. Furthermore, Western Pennsylvania is made up a huge Rural Area that votes Democratic (Former Steel Workers and Coal Miners know who the enemy is) but the districts are spread out to include huge areas in the North and Central parts of the State to give the GOP a chance of winning these districts. High Democratic Turnout can make these districts Democratic (or remain Democratic). Thus suppressing the votes in these districts make it more likely for a Republican to win these districts.

Just pointing out, voter ID is more then the Re-election of Obama, Casey is directly threaten by it and as Critz (Democrat from Johnstown). Republican Murphy (GOP South Hills of Pittsburgh) was given Greensburg and Washington to get as many suburban GOP voters into one district as the GOP could, but is still more Democratic then GOP. Shuster's Altoona 9th District was given the heavily Democratic Monongahela Valley and Greene County (and the Collage town of Indiana Pennsylvania) for to give them to Murphy's or Critz's district (Which the extensions of the 9th surrounds) would make them to Democratic for the GOP even to have a chance to win them.

Map of Pennsylvania Congressional Districts. Look at Western Pennsylvania. Look how the 9th almost surrounds the 12th, and the 12 stretches along the northern extreme of Metropolitan Pittsburgh to go from Johnstown and northern Somerset Counties (Heavy Democratic) to Beaver County (another heavy Democratic County). Thus keeping the 3rd GOP leaning and the 12th a district the GOP can win if (and they always do) they spend the money. I am less familiar with the Eastern part of the State, but I have complete faith similar stunts were done with the Eastern districts (The middle of the State is heavily GOP so not a factor, just like the City of Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are heavily GOP).


http://www.politicspa.com/pas-new-congressional-maps/30096/

Interesting, tidbit, Center County, where Penn State is, went for Obama in 2008 and I noticed it is NOT in the 9th, but in the 5th district, again to make sure the 9th with its extension into Green County and the Monongahela Valley stays GOP even as those Democratic Strongholds are included,

[Cosmocat]

11. The fifth is the largest congressional district east of the Mississippi River

it is a MORTAL lock for republican's based on its overall make up.

Ds have a massive edge in registered voters, have gone D in the presidential for decades now, and split on the two senate spots most often.

But, of the 19 congressmen in the state, 7 are democrats and 12 are republicans.

The Rs haev a MORTAL lock in the state senate and they control the house comfortably more often than not.

The ridiculous districting for congress that you post is second only to the state senate and house districts.

Just sad.

[livetohike]

13. I live in the fifth CD

It's a physically beautiful part of the state inhabited by extremely redneck voters.

[MadrasT]

12. Holy cats. I hadn't taken a good look at that yet.

I am in District 6, that map has me moving to District 7, with District 6 and 16 in spitting distance either direction. They turned that into a bloody mess, didn't they? (Although 6/7 was kind of a mess already.)