Man angry about virginity pleads guilty to threatening women

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Man angry about virginity pleads guilty to threatening women
Updated 11:27 am CDT, Friday, April 12, 2019

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — A man has pleaded guilty to a felony terroristic threat charge after authorities said he threating to target women in a mass shooting because he couldn't get a girlfriend.

Utah prosecutor Chad Grunander tells the Deseret News that 27-year-old Christopher W. Cleary of Denver was in court on Thursday.

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Police said Cleary wrote on Facebook he was planning to become a mass shooter because he was still a virgin and wanted to kill as many women as possible.

He was arrested during a trip to Provo, Utah, on January 19, the same day women's marches were held around the country. Colorado authorities have said he was on probation after stalking and threatening women there.

Read more: https://www.chron.com/news/crime/article/Man-angry-about-virginity-pleads-guilty-to-13762701.php

[CDerekGo]

1. What is wrong with these men?

Hell, I grew up gay in a straight world and still dated women, lost my virginity to a woman who knew I was gay! Staying home, playing video games, looking like you've been wearing the same clothes for the past 5 weeks, won't get you a date, much less a girlfriend that wants to sleep over in your Mom and Dad's basement apartment that you live in.

I'm so sick of these "Incels" (Involuntary Celibates). Look in the mirror asshole, and see why a woman doesn't want to sleep with you. It's truly sad that our Society has grown into where it's ALWAYS SOMEONE ELSE'S FAULT.

[kimbutgar]

5. My husband has a nephew who just goes to work, plays computer games and smokes pot

He wears the same clothes and smells funky. He’s 35 living at home with his mother. I worry about him.

[TexasBushwhacker]

31. His mother must not want grandchildren

My parents gave us a year after high school to get our shit together. I took a gap year and worked, then went away to college. My brothers got jobs and got an apartment together. No one moved back until I moved back to care for my mother when she got breast cancer almost 20 years later.

[DoctorJoJo]

9. Stephen Miller Is the Poster Boy for Incels. But He Takes It Out On All of America!

[ck4829]

49. Indeed

[Dave Starsky]

11. I don't get it, either. I grew up a straight guy who couldn't get dates.

I was a pathetic, lonely loser. Like these guys are.

So I read a few books about etiquette, and how you can always show your respect to others. I worked out, dressed up, and I tried to make myself, over all, more appealing to women. This got me a few dates, so I started talking to the women I dated and listening to them, and I started sharing my own experiences with them. We communicated. Then my dating life took off.

Long story short: I met and married the woman of my dreams.

This "incel" stuff is bullshit. Incels are lazy whiners, just like their useless, lazy whiner president that they love so much.

[Sherman A1]

16. Precisely

It is Horse Hockey and you have summed them up rather well.

[lostnfound]

18. Your story is a happy one, I'm glad it worked out.

👍
It’s hard for many to overcome their teenage years.

[Dave Starsky]

24. Being a teenager is the toughest time.

That's when I felt the most despondent. I almost gave up on life completely. I wanted to die.

But then I read that etiquette book and a Joe Weider book about bodybuilding, and I realized that I could give it all a shot. I could try their recommendations and do the work and see what happens to me. Before I died, I could try to learn about interacting with others, about exercising and building my body up, I could try to be the best person that I could be, based on the guidance that I got from those books. I didn't know what would happen to me, but I knew it would be better than what I was dealing with at the time.

Well, I did all that, and it all worked out spectacularly, for me.

[mercuryblues]

52. I am happy that gave yourself a chance

You inadvertently hit the nail on the head. You improved yourself, gained self esteem and attracted the woman of your dreams. These men seem incapable of doing that. I mean what woman would want to run into the arms of a man like this willingly? They would rather blame woman for their shortfalls of basic humanity. Treating women with respect. Now they have an online forum where they can feed off each other.

[Dave Starsky]

62. That's exactly right. They are in an endless, terrible loop.

They are lonely losers taking advice from, and seeking solace online from, other losers. They now can steep themselves in lonely losership in a 24/7 loser community.

Here's the other kicker that I can't believe I forgot to mention: Those books that I read on etiquette and bodybuilding? I got them from the local library. I didn't pay a cent for them. I just read those books and utilized their advice. I do recall that I paid $40 for the cheap orbatron weight set I had to buy at the behest of the bodybuilding book. But, other than that, I spent nothing other than the work I put in to try to make myself a more attractive individual, on the basis of the advice I read.

[smirkymonkey]

63. Thanks for your story. I'm glad it had a happy ending!

The other issue with these types of boys/men is that by spending so much time online being egged on and reinforced by other Incels and women-haters, they become even more appealing.

Women can sense that misogynistic hostility a mile away. We may not even know that is the specific reason that these kinds of men are turning us off, but it turns us off all the same, even if they guy is decent looking, well-groomed, gainfully employed and has his own place to live.

[Kind of Blue]

21. +1000!

[murielm99]

25. My husband was painfully shy in high school

and through most of his college years. I am pretty sure he had friends who double dated with him and helped him grow his confidence.

Many girls are just as uncertain. You are on the right track about talking and listening to the women.

You sound like a nice guy. I am glad you married the right woman.

[customerserviceguy]

33. My theory

They're assholes, who scare a woman off in five minutes or less. No wonder they can't find a meaningful relationship, even in a time when the old mores about virginity are effectively dead.

It might be meaningful if somehow, they could get training on how to be decent men, or at least act like one.

[GeoWilliam750]

36. Something I read somewhere...

"The wonderful thing about being professionally aggrieved is that it absolves you of self-reflection. You simply stockpile evidence of your victimhood."

[christx30]

38. I motion we stop calling them incels and

start calling them 'junk males'. Especially the violent ones that under certain circumstances, rape is ok.

Can I get a second?

[Mopar151]

53. You can get an AMEN from me!

Human equivalent of scrap metal. Foot soldiers for white supremacy. Who would their feminine equivalents be?

[shenmue]

2. Incels

[ck4829]

44. Radical Incels are here and they are planning and causing violence

[csziggy]

51. "Involuntary Celebate"

"Involuntary Celebate" - men who are virgins against their will. These guys blame women for not giving them the sex they believe they are due, no matter how obnoxious or unappealing they are.

[Occulus]

65. And I can confirm here and now that they aren't fabulous enough for us queers either

and sometimes that's really saying something. I probably shouldn't make a point of it, because these guys are already unbalanced. I can't begin to imagine how many of them would be pushed over the edge by thinking "I'm not even good enough for fags" (as I'm sure it's phrased in their minds).

Apologies for the wording, but consider the subjects under discussion. Yeeeesssh. Most of them get pity from the ugly stick.

I know that wasn't nice, but these really aren't particularly nice people.

edit: just saw the photo. Speculation verified.

[csziggy]

66. I've read about people having "radar" for certains groups

As a woman, I know there are some men (and a few women) that set of major alarms warning to stay away from them. Some people are simply toxic and being around them make others uncomfortable.

A few are just awkward and could learn to have better social skills but there are those who have the stench of danger - and most women can tell the difference.

[sinkingfeeling]

3. I think if he were neutered he would be less aggressive. Works with dogs.

[rurallib]

4. Maybe Joni Ernst should take up a new cause - castrating incels?

[guillaumeb]

6. Now THAT is brutal.

Ernst might even pay to do it.

[47of74]

8. She can start with the teabilly fornicate sticks

[ck4829]

50. Sounds good to me

[raccoon]

14. Sounds like a good idea. nt

[Pharlo]

7. "Incels" my ass,

Call them what they are "Too Goddamn cheap to pay for a prostitute."

[Kind of Blue]

20. Ha!

[murielm99]

26. That is brutal,

but for some of these assholes, maybe paying for it is the only choice.

Men with a little more humanity can usually figure out how to establish a relationship first.

[TexasBushwhacker]

32. It seems like parents dropped the ball somewhere

My dad and uncles raised my brothers and cousins to act polite around females. Of course, 40 years ago they didn't have video games sucking up kids time.

[MicaelS]

42. That is what they should do...

But they think that is beneath them. Seriously.

[ck4829]

45. Prostitutes aren't safe around them

[Shrike47]

10. Any man can get women to have sex with him if he puts some work into it. Bathing, getting to

know them a little, asking politely...

What these guys want is the magic porn star who shows up, satisfies his fantasies while he denigrates her and disappears. That’s not real, dude.

[getagrip_already]

12. it will be soon....

Sex Bots to the RESCUE!!!!!

They are very close to being very real. Well, real enough to be dream dates for these losers. Obedient, subservient, complimentary, good looking, and good at what they will be made for.

Really.

[customerserviceguy]

34. If sex bots can stem the murder rate of these assholes

then it might be worth a Federal program to provide them for free.

[Dave Starsky]

15. I didn't think about that aspect of this.

These are guys who think that fantasy porn stars should fall in their laps. They think the world should work like online porn does. They have a truly twisted, fantastic view of how real people interact, sexually.

This is disturbing and sad.

[Sapient Donkey]

41. I read some incel forums in the past

and that seemed like a common theme among a lot of them. The problem with just observing them online in an attempt to understand them, is that online people behave in ways they may not in person. So I was never sure if they were actually as aggressive and hateful as they appeared on the forums. Also hard to determine which are legit people and which are just trolls amusing themselves. If there aren't some serious studies on these people, then they really need to get some smart folks looking into them. I want to observe some in the wild while they don't know they are being observed.

[Yavin4]

13. "Utah prosecutor Chad Grunander" HA! Too funny.

In the Incel world, they call men who are "sexually successful" with women "Chad". They have this deep envy of "Chad(s)".

I think that Utah assigned this prosecutor on purpose. Good one Utah.

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. +1 (nt)

[ck4829]

46. LOL

[SergeStorms]

17. These clowns actually want...

the government to provide women for them. Talk about socialism!

Most women don't appreciate guys being aggressive around them. A jerk like this would think women owed him a relationship and even sex. Yeah, good luck with that tack, loser.

[Cold War Spook]

22. He is going to get his wish.

He won't be a virgin for long.

[Judi Lynn]

27. LOL! n/t

[Ms. Toad]

29. Rape is not funny -

even in prison.

[LanternWaste]

57. Relish your fantasies of vengeance and violence.

I'm sure it helps.

[Judi Lynn]

23. Virgin threatened to 'kill as many girls as I see' because he couldn't get a girlfriend

Virgin threatened to 'kill as many girls as I see' because he couldn't get a girlfriend
Chiara Giordano 23/01/2019

. . .

He is said to have added that there was “nothing more dangerous than a man ready to die”.

Cleary, from Denver, in Colorado, was arrested on Saturday after the state’s police raised the alarm with officers in Provo, Utah, where he had checked in to an Airbnb rental a day earlier.

With help from the FBI, officers tracked Cleary down to a restaurant, thought to be McDonald’s, and arrested him on suspicion of a felony threat of terrorism charge.

The Facebook posts did not mention the women’s marches but investigators were said to be concerned since they were happening that same day in Provo and Salt Lake City, along with dozens of other cities.

. . .



© Provided by Independent Digital News & Media Limited Christopher Cleary pictured during a review of a McDonald's meal uploaded to his YouTube channel on 19 January, 2019 - the same day he was arrested by police in Utah

. . .

In a video uploaded to YouTube the day before the massacre, Rodger described his plans to shoot women and promised retribution for his “loneliness and frustration” at never having had a girlfriend and for being a virgin.

. . .

He told investigators he had an impulse-control disorder and was suicidal.

. . .

“The Incel Rebellion has already begun,” the post said. “We will overthrow all the Chads and Stacys.”

‘Chads’ and ‘Stacys’ are said to be used within the Incel community to refer to attractive men and women.

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/virgin-threatened-to-kill-as-many-girls-as-i-see-because-he-couldnt-get-a-girlfriend/ar-BBSD8DT

[ck4829]

47. "We will overthrow all the Chads and Stacys.", I think that was a line also used by Alek Minassian,

Another radical incel.

[TalenaGor]

28. he should have stayed in Provo.. I hear they have a great facility there for people like him

[enid602]

30. Woodwork

Well he should have dates coming out of the woodwork after that Facebook post.

[TexasBushwhacker]

35. This reminds me how badly we need sex education in schools

including the basics about dating and consent and how porn sex isn't like the real world.

[ck4829]

48. We really do, having just abstinence only sex education is quite harmful in many ways

[Kaleva]

60. No amount of sex education would have helped this guy.

[TexasBushwhacker]

61. Perhaps, but it would help a lot of young people

It helps to have an adult who isn't a parent as an instructor. Lots of parents don't want to talk to their kids about sex and the kids aren't crazy about asking them. We need fact based sex ed.

[Collimator]

37. Young men like that are struggling with a mosaic of problems.

Some of those problems stem from social standards beyond their control--which is NOT to absolve them of personal responsibility.

Hell, we all struggle in a world where we have limited control. The realistic and mature among us still know that the world doesn't owe us happiness.

One of the issues that incels have is the struggle for meaningful connections when electronic pseudo-connections pervade our lives. The potentially addictive quality of their gaming activities and echo-chamber social media communities exacerbate this difficulty.

In addition, the physical isolation from their social context does not encourage healthy habits of self-care.

The constant bombardment of unrealistic images of girls and women is an old problem that has been dialed up to 11 by photo-imaging technology and CGI. When incels complain that they can't get a girlfriend, what they mean is that they can't get a gorgeous girlfriend.

Another broad issue is changing gender roles and shifting power structures in the world today. In my anthropology classes, we were taught an axiom that held true in many societies. "Nature makes a girl into a woman, but culture turns a boy into a man." What it means to be a man in our modern world is a rapidly evolving conversation, but there are still lingering ideas about being "less than man" if a fellow hasn't had sex. The concept of "purity" is less important for women these days, but being an older virgin is still less of a "stigma" for a female.

One final problem that is worth mentioning is that a lot of young people-- of both genders -- are being babied these days. I don't know if the parents are all afraid of being the main topic of discussion in their kids' future therapy sessions. Or maybe modern life has gotten the parents so worn out that it's just easier to pick up after their children, let them eat crap food that is quick and easy and keep them home safe and quiet (read: not complaining) playing with the electronics that the kids don't have to pay for or earn by doing chores.

Relating back to the statement about culture turning boys into men, many societies marked the change with a coming of age ritual that required the young men to accomplish something. Nowadays, coming of age seems to mean just getting something.

People who have never been pushed to accomplish something are never truly happy, no matter what the world hands them.

[RhodeIslandOne]

56. This is a reasonable analysis

My fiance and I recently found out our close friend could be labeled "incel" as he has never had a romantic relationship with a woman. He is not the typical dude people tee off on here, he's a good person with a good job, bathes regularly and is actually very well liked by women "as a friend". But he has severe anxiety issues that hinder him, and make him let's say, not a desirable partner. I worry more about him hurting himself than anyone else.

[ck4829]

39. Kick. Let's expose radical incels.

Last edited Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:01 AM - Edit history (1)

[Sapient Donkey]

40. He clearly has a winning personality. I wonder why he's a virgin at 27.

I've never known a real life incel in person. I would like to find one and pick his brain to figure out why they lash out instead of looking inwards to fix whatever the problems are. I can only assume this attitude also creeps into other aspects of their life too.

I am sure I can find some online to study, but that's not really the same. I want to observe it in the wild.

[ck4829]

43. +1. Definitely a social problem that needs to be studied

[Jimbo S]

58. I think it's more nuanced

I have a good friend of about 25 years and could be labeled as this. However, he would not be one to lash out as opposed to the guy in the article.

I think some factors involved could be looks, being an introvert, social awkwardness, limited social network. In my younger days, these factors limited my dating experiences, but never made me resentful. My friend also experiences these conditions, but he's a nice guy and not a sociopath. You could say it was the hand he was dealt.

[Sapient Donkey]

59. I'm a socially awkward introvert who has a weird looking face

I managed to train myself to assume the form of an extrovert when needed, though. I have also somehow managed to have relationships with people who for reasons beyond my comprehension wanted to be around me and know me. I'm far from normal, though. Despite my weirdness and everything that is wrong with me, I've never had an urge to lash out at women in general. I am able look at myself and understand my role in whatever crappy situations I may have been in. Even in cases where I was wronged by a shitty person, I didn't blame all women for that one shitty person.

Your friend, your younger self, me, and many people I know are examples of guys who don't do behave like that despite being in similar boats. It's hard for me to wrap my head around how people become so resentful and/or entitled.

[yellowcanine]

54. Maybe he should get out of Utah if he is trying to lose his virginity?

Just sayin.'

[maxrandb]

55. Gee, maybe threatening women

and his virginity are somehow related

[prodigitalson]

64. Prostitution is legal one state over.

Not advocating it but seems like a better choice than the criminal charge and headline he got.