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Fan of Da Bearse

(75 posts)
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 04:12 PM Sep 2019

Nancy Pelosi Just Sent a Dire Warning About the Whistleblower Complaint to Trump

Source: Mother Jones

Edwin Rios Reporting

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Sunday issued a warning to Republicans: If the Trump administration blocks the disclosure of a whistleblower complaint involving the president’s interactions with his counterpart in Ukraine, then “they will be entering a grave new chapter of lawlessness.”

The letter comes four days before Acting Director of National Intelligence Joseph Maguire is set to testify before the House Intelligence Committee. Trump has refused to release the whistleblower complaint or the transcript of his call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, ignoring demands from Democratic House and Senate leadership. Pelosi first urged the administration to release the complaint on Friday and followed up with a pointed letter to her Republican colleagues on Sunday.

Pelosi, who has not called for Trump’s impeachment, warned that preventing the whistleblower complaint’s disclosure would amount to a violation of federal statute. “The Administration is endangering our national security and having a chilling effect on any future whistleblower who sees wrongdoing,” she noted.

“If the Administration persists in blocking this whistleblower from disclosing to Congress a serious possible breach of constitutional duties by the President, they will be entering a grave new chapter of lawlessness which will take us into a whole new stage of investigation,” Pelosi concluded.

Read more: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/09/nancy-pelosi-trump-whistleblower-impeachment-ukraine/



Check out another MJ article by Pema Levy: Consensus Grows that Ukraine Scandal Is Impeachable Offense
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/09/trump-impeachment-ukraine/
144 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Nancy Pelosi Just Sent a Dire Warning About the Whistleblower Complaint to Trump (Original Post) Fan of Da Bearse Sep 2019 OP
"Oh Good Grief"... Snackshack Sep 2019 #1
The Democrats may be playing this perfectly NewEnglandAutumn Sep 2019 #24
"He is losing the military" Baked Potato Sep 2019 #28
I remember the times when democratic presidents attempted to send our troops to troubled... usaf-vet Sep 2019 #44
Just Friday, I was at our local VA hospital Haggis for Breakfast Sep 2019 #52
Preach On, Brother... or Sister ! Baked Potato Sep 2019 #57
I remember those times very clearly Baked Potato Sep 2019 #54
I, for one, DO NOT want to see our troops sent to defend the Saudis. Haggis for Breakfast Sep 2019 #59
I hear you, luckily Trump has no clue how to rally support Baked Potato Sep 2019 #64
the amount of damage being done disproves this is being "played perfectly" Skittles Sep 2019 #30
Exactly this Orrex Sep 2019 #38
THANK YOU Skittles Sep 2019 #39
:hi: Orrex Sep 2019 #63
dems are reticent because they and the media overvalue the trump base and that is certainot Sep 2019 #46
I think it's called "shit or get off the pot." calimary Sep 2019 #47
YES! Orrex Sep 2019 #62
Absolutely right. Thank you Calimary. Evolve Dammit Sep 2019 #66
Completely agree... HeartlandDem Sep 2019 #67
She wrote the stern letter in all capital letters, isn't that stern enough? beachbumbob Sep 2019 #89
Exactly. As if working with the Russians wasn't a "grave new chapter of lawlessness." SMC22307 Sep 2019 #95
Look, I get you want him out of office.....most of us want that but what do you want Pelosi to do? cstanleytech Sep 2019 #101
We have no reason to believe that she has some kind of master stroke in mind Orrex Sep 2019 #112
Maybe she has the goods maybe she doesn't but what it comes down to is this. cstanleytech Sep 2019 #115
If she has the goods and does nothing, then she deserves to be voted out Orrex Sep 2019 #137
agreed Orrex!!!!!! DENVERPOPS Sep 2019 #124
dems weak anti-repub Sep 2019 #129
+1,000 It is like a Mayor demanding more dead bodies even when the police know who the Maraya1969 Sep 2019 #139
Your thoughts seem to echo mine. I think they (House Dems) are approaching this whole thing with japple Sep 2019 #34
I don't disagree. Snackshack Sep 2019 #56
I agree. Pelosi bashers watch too many fictional television dramas PSPS Sep 2019 #58
Ok, I can get onboard with that Ahpook Sep 2019 #76
Sending American troops to Saudi Arabia is what turned Osama bin Laden against the US.... George II Sep 2019 #78
All your points depend on clean elections. We have major problems with that if we are not Amaryllis Sep 2019 #105
+1 Lulu KC Sep 2019 #117
Amaryllis DENVERPOPS Sep 2019 #140
A lot of people then didnt know enough to know those were stolen. Many people now know 2016 was Amaryllis Sep 2019 #141
You don't think DENVERPOPS Sep 2019 #142
Yes, i do agree with all that. Jsut dont think 2000 and 2004 were worse than 2016. Amaryllis Sep 2019 #143
+1000000! Enough said. KPN Sep 2019 #29
Oh, just impeach him. B Stieg Sep 2019 #103
And the consequences will be what? orangecrush Sep 2019 #2
STERN LETTER TO FOLLOW Grokenstein Sep 2019 #5
Accompanied by LastLiberal in PalmSprings Sep 2019 #7
and it's "dire" don't forget... Ligyron Sep 2019 #19
Consequences would divide the nation. Gore1FL Sep 2019 #85
+1 n/t area51 Sep 2019 #104
Pelosi continually keeps moving the case against trump forward. trump's best hope is . . . empedocles Sep 2019 #3
No. She keep threatening to move it forward. Not moving it forward. Kablooie Sep 2019 #113
A whole new stage of investigation? BeyondGeography Sep 2019 #4
Trump might wonder what that means. Like I am wondering. riversedge Sep 2019 #50
You can't win an impeachment proceeding if you haven't built your case first. George II Sep 2019 #80
Holy Smocks! Orange dump's gonna be shiverin' his timbers! 🙄 sprinkleeninow Sep 2019 #92
Well, if he truly cares about "the chilling effect on any future whistleblower"... SMC22307 Sep 2019 #96
Is there anything to be said for another mass ? OnDoutside Sep 2019 #6
Is the new stage like double secret investigation? Thomas Hurt Sep 2019 #8
Well, we're way past double-secret probation. Haggis for Breakfast Sep 2019 #55
Kinda tired of the bad words against Nancy here! bluestarone Sep 2019 #9
The Speaker needs to do her job Miguelito Loveless Sep 2019 #12
Well excuse me BUT bluestarone Sep 2019 #13
Standing by and watching Trump commit crimes Miguelito Loveless Sep 2019 #16
the process does look slow... Trueblue Texan Sep 2019 #61
I love it that those of us calling for Trump's impeachment Miguelito Loveless Sep 2019 #84
What exactly do you recommend she do? THey can't impeach him wiht the Rs owning the senate. Amaryllis Sep 2019 #106
The impeachment hearing will take months Miguelito Loveless Sep 2019 #119
You seem under the impression she does it alone treestar Sep 2019 #120
The Speaker is giving cover to the Democrats Miguelito Loveless Sep 2019 #126
People still have their own minds treestar Sep 2019 #132
Again, Miguelito Loveless Sep 2019 #135
It's not their constitutional obligation to agree with you 100% treestar Sep 2019 #136
Writing a sternly worded letter is "doing her job"? Dr Hobbitstein Sep 2019 #17
Please justie18 Sep 2019 #36
It is spelled out in the Constitution Miguelito Loveless Sep 2019 #87
people have different opinions.... pangaia Sep 2019 #22
I feel the same as you really. bluestarone Sep 2019 #26
the numbers will never be there in the senate for impeachment not_the_one Sep 2019 #77
I trust her. safeinOhio Sep 2019 #33
I think there is impatience but treestar Sep 2019 #133
We aren't tearing them apart. We are putting pressure on them to KPN Sep 2019 #31
and we need some REAL action Skittles Sep 2019 #42
What exactly do you recommend she do? THey can't impeach him wiht the Rs owning the senate. Amaryllis Sep 2019 #107
No, the House can impeach. It's only that the Senate must have a majority to remove. YOHABLO Sep 2019 #111
try to imagine if it was repukes in this position Skittles Sep 2019 #134
Right, reTHUGS love this. elleng Sep 2019 #48
Sexism gave us Trump, and sexism will give us four more years of Trump. athena Sep 2019 #122
So, Pelosi still refuses to impeach Miguelito Loveless Sep 2019 #10
But justie18 Sep 2019 #37
She moves Miguelito Loveless Sep 2019 #86
Oh yay.. another harshly worded letter Javaman Sep 2019 #11
Yeah but it's a whole other level of letter..... nt Guy Whitey Corngood Sep 2019 #72
yeah, even harsher... Javaman Sep 2019 #116
it is obvious that Edward Bulwer-Lytton never met a fascist when he coined yaesu Sep 2019 #14
In National Lampoon magazine Mr.Bill Sep 2019 #20
... SMC22307 Sep 2019 #98
Another sternly worded letter? PoindexterOglethorpe Sep 2019 #15
Republicans: "Concern noted." Beartracks Sep 2019 #18
Curious: If ignoring rules is the thing now, then why not... Beartracks Sep 2019 #21
Thus far, it appears the Whistle-blower does not want to risk testifying without legal protection. emmaverybo Sep 2019 #109
Oh my! intrepidity Sep 2019 #23
This is our Final Warning Don ritapria Sep 2019 #25
"This is our Final Warning Don ......... LenaBaby61 Sep 2019 #35
and this time we REALLY mean it!!!1! FiveGoodMen Sep 2019 #74
Isn't a MILD chapter softydog88 Sep 2019 #27
Yada yada yada grumpyduck Sep 2019 #32
Nothing will happen extvbroadcaster Sep 2019 #40
Mueller blew it Byte606 Sep 2019 #41
Mueller didn't blow it. people wanted Hollywood movie scenes JI7 Sep 2019 #45
Mueller did not blow it. He did his job... SMC22307 Sep 2019 #100
Mueller did not blow it Lulu KC Sep 2019 #118
Because Mueller's report was pretty damning Bradical79 Sep 2019 #130
By the time the complaint or phone transcription Golden Raisin Sep 2019 #43
"Bowdlerized." What a great word. (n/t) SMC22307 Sep 2019 #102
YES BUT what will SHE DO about it ???? yuiyoshida Sep 2019 #49
I'll just post this article for those who might be interested chowder66 Sep 2019 #51
So Far Timewas Sep 2019 #53
For cristsake the Con has always been a criminal, from the days pbmus Sep 2019 #60
hmmm. EveHammond13 Sep 2019 #65
That'll scare them ... ananda Sep 2019 #68
I'm sure the Diaper Don is absolutely petrified. nt Lucky Luciano Sep 2019 #69
I'm sure it was strongly worded. beachbumbob Sep 2019 #70
A dire warning dkhbrit Sep 2019 #71
"dire" eh? I guess we're up from "strongly worded"... Locrian Sep 2019 #125
Nancy strenuously objects. edbermac Sep 2019 #73
Drip drip drip -- This is all part of turning public opinion so impeachment is tenable to the public Politicub Sep 2019 #75
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Sep 2019 #79
I gotta say, that ain't dire enough for me. Personally. dchill Sep 2019 #81
the Dems will do nothing.... cntrfthrs Sep 2019 #82
Welcome to DU. nt Hotler Sep 2019 #83
"they will be entering a grave new chapter of lawlessness." LudwigPastorius Sep 2019 #88
A majority of House Democrats -- 134 of the 235 -- endorse impeachment!!! reACTIONary Sep 2019 #90
sounds to me like more empty threats jimlup Sep 2019 #91
Well that's much better than impeachment so..... thanks Fullduplexxx Sep 2019 #93
Brace yourself. briv1016 Sep 2019 #94
This is embarrassing. Just for fun, which Dem would be Speaker of the House... SMC22307 Sep 2019 #97
Oh ok vercetti2021 Sep 2019 #99
Actions speak louder than words nt Fiendish Thingy Sep 2019 #108
Let's get Bob Meuller on this ASAP! He's a rock ribbed PATRIOT, afraid of no man, who will uncover BamaRefugee Sep 2019 #110
That's it! Threaten to someday consider investigating. That'll show him! Kablooie Sep 2019 #114
Weak Bayard Sep 2019 #121
I hope this letter was sent bluecollar2 Sep 2019 #123
THIS is saying NOTHING. "they will be entering a grave new chapter of lawlessness." Maraya1969 Sep 2019 #127
one look at this pic Locrian Sep 2019 #138
Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! The famous "sternly written letter"! Grins Sep 2019 #128
I would remind the Speaker that the House Judiciary Committee... LudwigPastorius Sep 2019 #131
It's pretty funny to look at this thread now, just three days later. athena Sep 2019 #144

NewEnglandAutumn

(193 posts)
24. The Democrats may be playing this perfectly
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 05:03 PM
Sep 2019

They have been able to keep backing Donnie into a corner and are keeping his misdeeds in the headlines and THAT may be key to the Democrats winning big next year. Many Democrats; not just the nominee for president.
-Look at how his poll numbers are dropping and how his most vocal supporters are in trouble in the polls.
-Look at how many republicans are not running for re-election.
-If they play it right the GOP could be earning themselves black eyes that will damage them for several years to come.
-I have been watching how the Democrats have been slow walking impeaching Donnie and giving him enough rope to hang himself and it is working.
-Every time another weakness and/or crime is exposed the GOP has people step in to prop him up. This is showing how the entire GOP is the problem not just Donnie.
-He is losing the military. I KNOW this for a fact. I am married to a veteran and because of his health I spend a lot of time at the VA and the local military clinic. They cut military medical forces and forced retirees off military clinics and hospitals and into civilian providers and they are royally pissed. They cut housing and building projects(also =angry vets) and the increase in troops in Saudi Arabia has them angry and they do NOT want to have to spend more time away from family fighting wars for oil.

Baked Potato

(7,733 posts)
28. "He is losing the military"
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 05:18 PM
Sep 2019

I second this! Thank you and your Veteran spouse for your sacrifices and service! I am retired military and my spouse and I see this too. A lot more Military helped President Obama than people think.

IMO, the military is holding this country together while the country experiments with disaster.

usaf-vet

(6,708 posts)
44. I remember the times when democratic presidents attempted to send our troops to troubled...
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 06:03 PM
Sep 2019

...regions in the world as part of a UN deployment. The Republicans would scream b*tch and moan about not allowing our troops to be under the command of UN policing forces.

Yet now Trump is sending troops to Saudi Arabia for a Saudi prince to use as a defense force.

Don't try and justify this move of Trump by saying those forces will have a U.S. Command structure.
REMEMBER Trump threw our intelligent agencies under the bus and took Putin's words over our intelligent service.

He will do the same thing with the Saudi prince the first time the U.S. commander doesn't follow the orders coming from the Saudi's.

The prince will call Trump and the local commander will get fired.


Haggis for Breakfast

(6,831 posts)
52. Just Friday, I was at our local VA hospital
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 06:26 PM
Sep 2019

The talk in the waiting room was explosive. trumpie has shit on the military and the veterans too many times. We hold an oath of loyalty to The Constitution, not the inhabitant of the Oval Office. And that occupant has been wiping his ass with The Constitution since he got there.

If he thinks he has our votes, he is dead wrong.

Baked Potato

(7,733 posts)
54. I remember those times very clearly
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 06:28 PM
Sep 2019

The republicans are creating a huge vacuum and opening the door for the Democrats to own the Military as a voting block. Our troops are intelligent and well-informed. Republicans got smug and cocky with the Military support. I’m so glad I never had to consider that flop my CinC.

If I remember, the republicans were whining about Bill Clinton sending peacekeeping troops to Kosovo in the 90s. I don’t like our troops going to Saudi. I don’t like them on the Mexican borders either.

Haggis for Breakfast

(6,831 posts)
59. I, for one, DO NOT want to see our troops sent to defend the Saudis.
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 06:37 PM
Sep 2019

We have given them BILLIONS in federal aid, in materiel, in the instruments of war (from hand grenades to fighter jets) and have trained their pilots for years.

They can well afford to defend themselves. They have everything they need because we have GIVEN it to them.

I will be burning up the phone wires if ONE US soldier, sailor, airman or marine is deployed there.

Congress should be HOWLING right now about this.

Baked Potato

(7,733 posts)
64. I hear you, luckily Trump has no clue how to rally support
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 06:48 PM
Sep 2019

I’ve said before, we’re lucky he had no charisma or leadership qualities.

I’m emailing both my Red Senators tomorrow. I’ll be sure to call myself a “Patriot “ when addressing them. Democrats need to own that word, too. It’s horror to them, Democrats calling themselves Patriots.

Skittles

(157,395 posts)
30. the amount of damage being done disproves this is being "played perfectly"
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 05:21 PM
Sep 2019

ENOUGH OF THIS MEME ALREADY

Orrex

(63,801 posts)
38. Exactly this
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 05:39 PM
Sep 2019

We've been hearing for months how Strategist Pelosi is executing this brilliant clandestine maneuver and executing that brilliant clandestine maneuver, meanwhile Trump's unanswered crimes continue apace with absolutely zero checks on his corruption.

If they have something on him, then for fuck's sake do something!

If they don't have anything on him, then for fuck's sake let's stop pretending that this is all going according to plan.

Trump cons his base with promises of prosperity and fear of an imagined enemy, neither of which ever materializes.

Democrats con their base with promises of accountability and transparency, neither of which is anywhere close to materializing.


I call bullshit.

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
46. dems are reticent because they and the media overvalue the trump base and that is
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 06:10 PM
Sep 2019

because the dem base and left continues to ignore the only real advantage trump has.

the left/dems are completely missing an opportunity. the only clothes this fucking emperor has is basically what a few hundred asshole limbaugh wannabes on 1500 radio stations the kremlin has probably been feeding for 10 years have been putting on him every fucking day as they scream to 50 mil a week the excuses and alt reality and attacks on the dem reps we are supposed to be supporting.

when dems finally stop ignoring rw radio the media will start factoring it and dem politicians will get more brave and republican reps will be more likely to turn on trump.

attack the rw radio monopoly with boycotts and monitoring with AI and protests at universities and pro teams that support rw radio stations and the ad industry will have to start asking clients if they really want to support trump and global warming denial. that will kill the only advantage trump and russia and the gop have and it will fall apart and we can have a real democracy.

until then complaining about dems bravery and caution while letting a few hundred shits on the radio take free potshots at them all day to 50 mil a week is bullshit.

calimary

(83,669 posts)
47. I think it's called "shit or get off the pot."
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 06:12 PM
Sep 2019

Last edited Sun Sep 22, 2019, 09:24 PM - Edit history (1)

It’s really depressing to watch, gotta say.

“Grave new chapter of lawlessness” my ass. That and a dime will get you two or three minutes on a parking meter. That doesn’t mean squat to donald trump. He doesn’t give a damn about any “grave new chapter of lawlessness.” “Lawlessness” doesn’t mean anything to him. He gains greater and greater advantage from being lawless. It pays. In many cases, literally! Flouting the Constitution actually puts literal dollars into his pocket. What does he care about lawlessness? Besides, there are no consequences for lawlessness. He keeps getting away with it more and more and more and more and more! He’s probably laughing, and thinking some variation of “suck it, lady. Whatcha gonna do about it?” So far she’s done nothing!

Madam Speaker, that statement isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. And it never will be, if you don’t DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!

This means squat unless you DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!

Orrex

(63,801 posts)
62. YES!
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 06:43 PM
Sep 2019

I don't give a shit about stern pronouncements and rigorous scoldings. I'm also not greatly impressed by the numerous, though fruitless (judging from all available evidence) indictments in the wake of the Mueller investigation.

Trump is the murderer still fondling the smoking gun while he squats naked on the face of his victim, and Democrats are urging us to be patient.

Fuck that.
FUCK that.
FUCK THAT!

Madam Speaker, if you value your position and the nation that you serve, then do something already!

The peons and peasants are starving while your powder grows ever more dry.

HeartlandDem

(80 posts)
67. Completely agree...
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 07:09 PM
Sep 2019

so far he has suffered no consequences... so okay, ANOTHER investigation? really? As long as Barr is protecting him, Madam Speaker's statement/letter means squat. NOTHING will be done to hold him accountable.

 

beachbumbob

(9,263 posts)
89. She wrote the stern letter in all capital letters, isn't that stern enough?
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 09:36 PM
Sep 2019

Trump is laughing at all of us.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
95. Exactly. As if working with the Russians wasn't a "grave new chapter of lawlessness."
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 10:33 PM
Sep 2019

What the fuck does that even mean? I'm sure Fat Nixon and his goons are trembling. Jesus, I've been voting Dem since Carter but I gotta say I'm embarrassed...

cstanleytech

(26,863 posts)
101. Look, I get you want him out of office.....most of us want that but what do you want Pelosi to do?
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 10:52 PM
Sep 2019

Impeach him? We both know Orrex that Mitch will make sure it dies in the Senate.
Granted it would hurt the Repugnants but if it happens now I guarantee you the Repugnants would spin doctor the hell out of it and by the time the elections are upon us it will not have anywhere near the impact we need it to have against them.
On the other hand if Pelosi has the goods and waits until just after the Repugnants have their convention and formally choose Trump we might have a shot at taking both him and a significant number of Repugnants out.

Orrex

(63,801 posts)
112. We have no reason to believe that she has some kind of master stroke in mind
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 06:36 AM
Sep 2019

"Let's just let this fire burn for another year or so, and THEN we'll really soak it. Or we'll try, sort of."

If they don't have "the goods" on Trump by now, then they're never going to have "the goods." I'm sorry, but that's the plain truth of it.

And if Moscow Mitch shuts it down, then fuck him in his dusty cloaca. In resisting impeachment (and even in pre-emptively taking it off the table, as Pelosi did), the Speaker is endorsing the width and breadth of Trump's shit show.

I could maybe stomach all of this 27th dimensional chess if there are any reason at all to believe that it was actually happening, but to all observation, it looks unmistakably like Pelosi is doing nothing, notwithstanding the reassurances of her colleagues who tell us "just wait, there's something big coming!"

cstanleytech

(26,863 posts)
115. Maybe she has the goods maybe she doesn't but what it comes down to is this.
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 08:01 AM
Sep 2019

If people keep attacking her it weakens us at a time when we need to stand united if we want Trump out of office.
Not to mention taking back at least minor majority control in the Senate and keep it in the House.

Orrex

(63,801 posts)
137. If she has the goods and does nothing, then she deserves to be voted out
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 05:34 PM
Sep 2019

And if that costs us the majority, then that's Pelosi's fault, not mine.

I'm all for standing together, but right now we're all standing together in a blazing house, while the distinguished Speaker says "Patience! We don't want to trip the sprinklers too soon."

You know it. I know it. Democrats know it. Republicans know it. The entire world knows it, yet here we sit wondering when Pelosi will take action.

DENVERPOPS

(9,750 posts)
124. agreed Orrex!!!!!!
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 12:14 PM
Sep 2019

Oh my........yet ANOTHER stern letter.........now Trump and Minions are REALLY shaking in their booties.......

Truly, by now, we must realize that none of the Dem leaders know HOW to fight, even if they had the will to do so.

It's like the old adage: Don't bring a pea shooter to a gun fight.................

WASF

Maraya1969

(22,934 posts)
139. +1,000 It is like a Mayor demanding more dead bodies even when the police know who the
Tue Sep 24, 2019, 12:35 PM
Sep 2019

serial killer is............because the murderer is a political opponent and the Mayor is afraid of a political backlash.

One thing for sure: Trump has a way of getting people afraid to hold him accountable. How the fuck he does it I don't know.

japple

(10,244 posts)
34. Your thoughts seem to echo mine. I think they (House Dems) are approaching this whole thing with
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 05:26 PM
Sep 2019

eyes open and a readiness to fight. Everyone who is champing at the bit for instant impeachment doesn't understand how things need to move in increments towards a certain point. Take a deep breath. Take a walk. Drink a beer. It is unfolding.

Snackshack

(2,541 posts)
56. I don't disagree.
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 06:32 PM
Sep 2019

With any of your points. A person like DT (hubristic, narcissist) The “give a person enough rope” strategy will eventually pay off.

Having said that political calculations should not a part of this. DT has shredded the constitution and is violating the law in terms of:

Checks and Balance, defying Subpoenas and all request from Congress.

Emoluments, he is pumping millions into his pockets by golfing every weekend, having the Military, Foreign Heads of States and their staff and I have a felling this is just the tip of that iceberg.

Obstructing Justice, multiple issues of this are in the Mueller report.

Enforcement of the Law is not/should not be based on if it is popular or not. If Dems do not impeach / enforce the law the precedent that sets going forward will be disastrous and emboldened a future president as mortally corrupt as DT or worse (Don Jr?) to be even more lawless then DT is.

PSPS

(14,059 posts)
58. I agree. Pelosi bashers watch too many fictional television dramas
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 06:35 PM
Sep 2019

This has sucked up at least four consecutive news cycles already and it will go on, what with trump admitting he lied today. Trump is certainly freaking out now and, with him, the entire criminal/mob enterprise that is the GOP.

Ahpook

(2,763 posts)
76. Ok, I can get onboard with that
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 08:01 PM
Sep 2019

It is super messed up that our country as a whole can't do anything about this nut with laws that are clearly in place. Makes no sense and it pisses me off, but....

So we are down to let his arrogance grow and he hangs himself?

As fucked as it is, that's all there is!

George II

(67,782 posts)
78. Sending American troops to Saudi Arabia is what turned Osama bin Laden against the US....
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 08:12 PM
Sep 2019

People forget that he was our "ally" in the fight against the USSR in Afghanistan.

Amaryllis

(9,744 posts)
105. All your points depend on clean elections. We have major problems with that if we are not
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 11:41 PM
Sep 2019

to have a repeat of 2016.

DENVERPOPS

(9,750 posts)
140. Amaryllis
Wed Sep 25, 2019, 11:53 AM
Sep 2019

So true.

But refresh everyone's memories:

2000 and 2004.

Both of those were far worse than 2016, and the Dems did absolutely nothing......

Amaryllis

(9,744 posts)
141. A lot of people then didnt know enough to know those were stolen. Many people now know 2016 was
Wed Sep 25, 2019, 08:16 PM
Sep 2019

stolen. ALso I don't agree that 2000 and 2004 were worse.

DENVERPOPS

(9,750 posts)
142. You don't think
Wed Sep 25, 2019, 08:38 PM
Sep 2019

You don't think they were a warm up to all this?????????? Even Reagan's administration was composed of the same people as both of "W"s administration..............

There is ONE common theme to the whole scenario......HW Bush. CIA, then he, Cheney, Rumsfeld ran the era of Reagan, then HW was elected. Clinton intervened, but then W got elected. Same cast of characters, cheney, rumsfeld, Pearle, Wolfowitz etc etc etc.

HW & Cheney have been working on this for decades.

The Supreme's illegal and corrupt intervention in 2000 is now a precedent allowing them legal and constitutional power they never had before 2000.

Amaryllis

(9,744 posts)
143. Yes, i do agree with all that. Jsut dont think 2000 and 2004 were worse than 2016.
Wed Sep 25, 2019, 08:54 PM
Sep 2019

THese guys have been working long-range plans for a long time now. I was pretty sure they were going to steal 2004 before they did and was very concerned that they were going to steal this last one even when everyone else was sure Hillary would win. There were too many signs of mischief afoot. Those of us who had been following this for a long time knew the signs.

Grokenstein

(5,798 posts)
5. STERN LETTER TO FOLLOW
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 04:20 PM
Sep 2019

...perhaps another snarky gesture when God Emperor Puppet Sharpie appears before her to declare his dictatorship.

Ligyron

(7,831 posts)
19. and it's "dire" don't forget...
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 04:56 PM
Sep 2019

that's sure to have him trembling and quaking in his Gucci's before he tells her to get fucked.

empedocles

(15,751 posts)
3. Pelosi continually keeps moving the case against trump forward. trump's best hope is . . .
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 04:16 PM
Sep 2019

. . . Impeachment Now - and vote counts.

Kablooie

(18,718 posts)
113. No. She keep threatening to move it forward. Not moving it forward.
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 07:22 AM
Sep 2019

Trump is laughing in her face.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
96. Well, if he truly cares about "the chilling effect on any future whistleblower"...
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 10:42 PM
Sep 2019

he'll do the right thing. Because we know Republicans truly care about "the chilling effect on any future whistleblower."

bluestarone

(17,928 posts)
9. Kinda tired of the bad words against Nancy here!
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 04:28 PM
Sep 2019

The House needs our backing, NOT us tearing them apart. reTHUGS love this!

bluestarone

(17,928 posts)
13. Well excuse me BUT
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 04:43 PM
Sep 2019

She IS doing her job! Maybe not the way YOU want her to BUT I trust HER a lot more than i trust YOU.

Miguelito Loveless

(4,616 posts)
16. Standing by and watching Trump commit crimes
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 04:51 PM
Sep 2019

While she plays games of political expediency is NOT doing her job. It has now reached the point of where one wonders why she refuses to impeach given the overwhelming evidence of multiple felonies. I never asked you to trust me, do not hold public office, and have not taken an oath to defend the Constitution.

Trueblue Texan

(2,792 posts)
61. the process does look slow...
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 06:40 PM
Sep 2019

..and is easy to confuse with political expediency when you're comparing it to the wrecking ball of right-wing crooks. But I believe the object is to preserve Democracy and the Constitution, not to see which side can deliver the most destructive blow. Remember, the slow walking isn't caused by the Democrats. It's caused by the Trump administration and it is by design. Don't help them, please.

Miguelito Loveless

(4,616 posts)
84. I love it that those of us calling for Trump's impeachment
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 08:53 PM
Sep 2019

and congress to do what it has sworn to do (check abuse of power) is now “helping” Trump.

Trump is demonstrating that there is no crime he can commit (and publicly confess to) that will move Pelosi, Schumer. Durbin, et al, to impeach.

Cool. I’ll shut up and wait and see how this plays out.

Miguelito Loveless

(4,616 posts)
119. The impeachment hearing will take months
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 09:16 AM
Sep 2019

and the investigation will drive Trump to a psychotic break. At that point, let the GOP acquit him going into the 2020 election. They will nail their colors to the mast of a ship whose captain, by then, will be a gibbering idiot.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
120. You seem under the impression she does it alone
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 09:37 AM
Sep 2019

There is a vote in the House, not a decision by the speaker.

Miguelito Loveless

(4,616 posts)
126. The Speaker is giving cover to the Democrats
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 01:02 PM
Sep 2019

who refuse to do their job. She is a leader. Why is it wrong to expect her to lead?

treestar

(82,383 posts)
132. People still have their own minds
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 04:30 PM
Sep 2019

and the people in the House are not her employees. She is the Speaker, not the boss. Why not rag on the Ds who are not for impeachment or haven't said anything yet?

Miguelito Loveless

(4,616 posts)
135. Again,
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 05:04 PM
Sep 2019

since she refuses to call for impeachment, she provides cover to those who will not hold Trump to account. Again, if folk want to go on record going into the elections as refusing to impeach Trump, then so be it. At the moment, The Speaker and the Senate Minority Leader are on the record as opposing impeachment. As long as they refuse, why should the rank & file oppose them? They are leaders, and have abdicated their Constitutional obligations.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
136. It's not their constitutional obligation to agree with you 100%
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 05:34 PM
Sep 2019

There is likely more to it.

Still, if they passionately wanted to, they could say so. AOC did.

 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
17. Writing a sternly worded letter is "doing her job"?
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 04:51 PM
Sep 2019

That’s laughable. Pelosi hasn’t done much at all WRT Trump.

Miguelito Loveless

(4,616 posts)
87. It is spelled out in the Constitution
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 09:01 PM
Sep 2019

I would also point out that the “you can’t indict a sitting president” claim, was an opinion, not a law.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
22. people have different opinions....
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 05:00 PM
Sep 2019

to be honest, i have a stronger voice she is making a big mistake, but also I really have NO WAY of knowing what is correct

bluestarone

(17,928 posts)
26. I feel the same as you really.
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 05:08 PM
Sep 2019

I just have faith that she is waiting until the numbers are there! ( i'm just thinking the reTHUGS would really use the vote AGAINST us) if we won BUT some Dems would vote no. Also even if i felt uneasy about it i would NOT discuss it where the reTHUGS could use my words as talking points. I do agree of different opinions for sure though, i just hate seeing Dems bad mouthed.

 

not_the_one

(2,227 posts)
77. the numbers will never be there in the senate for impeachment
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 08:05 PM
Sep 2019

so the take away message is that the democrats have no principles that they will take a stand on UNLESS they think they can win.

Sometimes there is a lot more involved than just winning. (I hate competitive commercial sports, so I will not use a sports analogy here.... )

So what if you don't always win. If you lose the trust of your core support, was it worth it?

The prevailing (Third Way = Centrist) attitude that is being enforced here, and we have seen time and time again how it is NOT a winning attitude to have, is: We're running this show. Where else you gonna go?

Back people into a corner and results may not be what you hoped for.

I will vote. I will vote for whomever has the D behind their name.

But this is the last time I will be put into this position.

And Pelosi MUST go. She is past her expiration date (which has NOTHING to do with her age), and her (alleged) strategy prowess has become, at the most, underwhelming.

The blue wave in 2018 was not due to triangulation and shrewd calculation. It was due to OUTRAGE.

Nancy Pelosi didn't have shit to do with THAT.

I do agree that WE should not hand the repubes the talking points to use against us (which I see being done daily on MSNBC). But we can talk amongst ourselves to focus our OWN strategy for the future of the party. Of course there are trolls here that report back to their masters......

But we must remember, WE are the party. And we don't take kindly to being run roughshod over, and ignored until we toe the (their) line.

My biggest fear is that we have calculated so shrewdly about lining up our ducks, dotting our i's and crossing our t's, so our dry powder can explode at maximum efficiency.... it will be too late.

Remember how efficient Moscow Mitch was at preventing Merrick Garland from getting a vote? If he can use the same argument (it is too close to the election), he will, and what will he get for it?

A stern letter and a wagging finger in his face.

Meanwhile, we are up shit creek.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
133. I think there is impatience but
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 04:32 PM
Sep 2019

there has to be a lot of care taken to have evidence enough in the face of R obstructionism even in the face of a Dotard Brain Dead Moron in the Oval with the nuclear codes.

It is not as easy as it looks. I will hear people talk about jury verdicts they don't like because they made up their minds based on media coverage. But they didn't sit through the whole case like the jury did. People tend to oversimplify things.

KPN

(16,007 posts)
31. We aren't tearing them apart. We are putting pressure on them to
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 05:21 PM
Sep 2019

act according to the wishes of their supporters. We voted them in!

 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
111. No, the House can impeach. It's only that the Senate must have a majority to remove.
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 04:25 AM
Sep 2019

Last edited Mon Sep 23, 2019, 07:49 PM - Edit history (1)

Unfortunately we don't have the numbers to remove Trump from the Presidency.

Skittles

(157,395 posts)
134. try to imagine if it was repukes in this position
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 04:55 PM
Sep 2019

imagine what would happen, for example, if someone refused to honor a subpoena

athena

(4,187 posts)
122. Sexism gave us Trump, and sexism will give us four more years of Trump.
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 11:10 AM
Sep 2019

But sexism just feels so good to sexists that they just can't stop themselves, even if it means throwing away the democracy that protects them.

Every male idiot out there with a keyboard and an internet connection thinks he understands House politics better than the Speaker of the House. This forum really makes me sick sometimes.

Miguelito Loveless

(4,616 posts)
86. She moves
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 08:59 PM
Sep 2019

And Democrats have to decide which side of the law they are on.

What is the alternative? There appears to be no crime Trump can commit that will convince the leadership to impeach. So, we go into the election with Trump claiming that since they never voted to impeach, he is obviously not guilty. And his Russian pals, who will redouble their efforts will help him win, or, if that fails, simply discredit the election.

yaesu

(8,069 posts)
14. it is obvious that Edward Bulwer-Lytton never met a fascist when he coined
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 04:48 PM
Sep 2019

"The pen is mightier than the sword"

Mr.Bill

(24,651 posts)
20. In National Lampoon magazine
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 04:57 PM
Sep 2019

they added: unless you stick the pen in someone's eye. Then they are pretty much the same."

Beartracks

(13,344 posts)
21. Curious: If ignoring rules is the thing now, then why not...
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 04:59 PM
Sep 2019

... ignore those who ignore the rules? If the White House is officially and legally obligated to turn over the whistleblower complaint, then they cannot officially or legally block the whistleblower's testimony.

======

emmaverybo

(8,147 posts)
109. Thus far, it appears the Whistle-blower does not want to risk testifying without legal protection.
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 02:18 AM
Sep 2019

His or her job is on the line and more. Trump destroys.

grumpyduck

(6,617 posts)
32. Yada yada yada
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 05:24 PM
Sep 2019

Sure, Nancy, keep talking.

"A whole new stage of investigation?" Sure, just like the last few: didn't do squatola except maybe make the Dems look like lame ducks.

extvbroadcaster

(343 posts)
40. Nothing will happen
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 05:45 PM
Sep 2019

Trump thinks he is still running his horrible little family business, calling up people trying to arrange to stiff somebody on a bill. Only in this case he is President, and he is calling foreign governments and using taxpayer money for extortion. Impeach him and make the GOP go on the record that Trump is above the law and anything he does is A-ok. Even if it fails, the strength is going through the process. I don't believe that impeaching him makes him stronger, or a shoe in for 2020. The more the alarm bells sound the harder it will be to find those "all Trump all the time" voters. Even his most faithful supporters will have to take a second look. Impeach his ass now.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
100. Mueller did not blow it. He did his job...
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 10:51 PM
Sep 2019

now the Democratic-controlled congress needs to do the same.

Lulu KC

(3,146 posts)
118. Mueller did not blow it
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 09:05 AM
Sep 2019

He did exactly what he was supposed to do and clearly needed his teammates to catch the ball and run with it. The person who appeared to do that is Adam Schiff. I have faith in Adam Schiff. He has the ball.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
130. Because Mueller's report was pretty damning
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 03:21 PM
Sep 2019

He can't force Congress to act on the information contained within.

Golden Raisin

(4,657 posts)
43. By the time the complaint or phone transcription
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 06:01 PM
Sep 2019

is released (if ever) by the Trump regime it will be edited and bowdlerized or Barr will issue one of his hand-tailored "summaries" a la with the Mueller Report.

chowder66

(9,690 posts)
51. I'll just post this article for those who might be interested
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 06:21 PM
Sep 2019

"Nancy Pelosi has been taking a lot of flak over her seeming reluctance to support full-throttle impeachment proceedings. Despite House Democrats' multi-pronged investigation of Donald Trump since taking power last January, their votes to contemn uncooperative witnesses, and their (so far) successful efforts to enforce subpoenas against a "sandbagging" White House -- and even after the House Judiciary Committee let the cat out of the bag by confessing, in a court filing, that the hearings, subpoenas, document requests, etc. they've been engaged in are part of an “impeachment inquiry" -- some pundits continue to chastise the Democratic leadership for “dragging their feet” (and some commentators -- even some Congresscritters -- remain confused about whether or not an “impeachment inquiry” actually is underway. Pro tip: it is.)

There's one thing Pelosi's critics from the left are correct about: even though the impeachment inquiry/investigation/hearings have been underway for several months now, Pelosi is loath to actually call them that. Instead, she seizes every opportunity to minimize impeachment talk -- and, heroically, is shouldering a tremendous amount of abuse for doing so.

Why “heroically”? Because she's right. The inquiry is underway, but the "official" impeachment hearings (and the consequent stirring-up-the-public rhetoric) won't, and more pointedly SHOULDN'T, begin for months -- maybe even a year.

(Ouch. Please stop shouting. You're hurting my ears.)""

Please read the rest of the article to see some of the arguments being made and addressed.

https://crooksandliars.com/2019/07/why-pelosis-right-delay-impeachment

pbmus

(12,433 posts)
60. For cristsake the Con has always been a criminal, from the days
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 06:39 PM
Sep 2019

He and pappy wouldn’t sell to brown people, to the July day he threatened to cut off aid to Ukraine...These facts are on the books and all we get are more threats...

CROSS THIS LINE AND WE WILL .....WHAT

Locrian

(4,523 posts)
125. "dire" eh? I guess we're up from "strongly worded"...
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 12:38 PM
Sep 2019

what's next? super duper dire? ludicrous dire?

Politicub

(12,265 posts)
75. Drip drip drip -- This is all part of turning public opinion so impeachment is tenable to the public
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 08:00 PM
Sep 2019

All of the investigations in the house are related to collecting evidence. And once the crimes fully documented and impeachment hearings begin, there will be no where for Trump and his enablers to hide.

When President Coward is carted away to prison, and hope springs eternal that this will happen, he will look like Saddam Hussien did when he was pulled from his spider hole -- pathetic and decrepit.

Response to Fan of Da Bearse (Original post)

cntrfthrs

(252 posts)
82. the Dems will do nothing....
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 08:26 PM
Sep 2019

except clutch their pearls...and continue to be part of the problem by being complicit in trumps crimes by doing nothing...

LudwigPastorius

(10,496 posts)
88. "they will be entering a grave new chapter of lawlessness."
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 09:35 PM
Sep 2019

And who, Madame Speaker, has not taken away Trump's ink, allowing him to write this new chapter?

Things will only get worse until you follow your Constitutional imperative and impeach him.

reACTIONary

(5,945 posts)
90. A majority of House Democrats -- 134 of the 235 -- endorse impeachment!!!
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 09:37 PM
Sep 2019

A majority of House Democrats — 134 of the 235 — endorse impeachment....

..... out of 435 members of the house. That would make 301 representatives against it. So there's that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/judiciary-committee-democrats-privately-map-out-possible-impeachment-articles-against-trump/2019/09/12/eecbc05a-d442-11e9-ab26-e6dbebac45d3_story.html

vercetti2021

(10,329 posts)
99. Oh ok
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 10:50 PM
Sep 2019

How about impeach the fucker?! Stop acting like the teacher sending home a warning. Get the ruler and beat the son of a bitch

BamaRefugee

(3,661 posts)
110. Let's get Bob Meuller on this ASAP! He's a rock ribbed PATRIOT, afraid of no man, who will uncover
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 04:14 AM
Sep 2019

tons of heinous crimes, and will pursue them TIRELESSLY, and bring the evil-doers to JUSTICE!
Oh, wait, never mind...

I guess another Sternly Worded Letter will work.

Kablooie

(18,718 posts)
114. That's it! Threaten to someday consider investigating. That'll show him!
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 07:28 AM
Sep 2019

What kind of pantywaist talk is that?
that's why Trump is tearing the country apart.
The Dems are too scared to move on him and he knows it.
He will never be held accountable.

Bayard

(23,790 posts)
121. Weak
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 10:44 AM
Sep 2019

We look weaker by the moment for not standing up to a lawless bully. This is NOT the time to be without a sheriff.

bluecollar2

(3,622 posts)
123. I hope this letter was sent
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 12:03 PM
Sep 2019

Certified USPS mail with a return receipt requested and proof of delivery with c/c to the ranking minority members of the appropriate committees...

Maraya1969

(22,934 posts)
127. THIS is saying NOTHING. "they will be entering a grave new chapter of lawlessness."
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 01:43 PM
Sep 2019

What is the point of saying this? It is just another word verbiage with no action behind it.

I am so sick of Nancy Pelosi and her do nothing crap.

I'm sorry but we need a leader who will do something to stop this criminal president and tell the country and the world that we will not accept it anymore.


EVERYONE knows it is a new chapter of lawlessness. What we are shocked about it the new chapter of allowing this lawlessness.

Grins

(7,788 posts)
128. Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! The famous "sternly written letter"!
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 02:10 PM
Sep 2019

There is the “if” he doesn’t comply, but no “then” what Congress will do in response.

Symbolic nonsense all around.

LudwigPastorius

(10,496 posts)
131. I would remind the Speaker that the House Judiciary Committee...
Mon Sep 23, 2019, 03:39 PM
Sep 2019

started impeachment proceedings against Richard Nixon just 6 months before a midterm election. And, that election netted a gain of 53 Congressional seats for the Democrats. (4 in the Senate & 49 in the House)

Not only is there no provision in the Constitution for delaying impeachment because it might hurt your party's election chances, there is historical precedent for it actually helping them.

Do your job!

athena

(4,187 posts)
144. It's pretty funny to look at this thread now, just three days later.
Wed Sep 25, 2019, 11:34 PM
Sep 2019

All those people insulting Speaker Pelosi's intelligence and political instincts sure knew better!

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