HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Latest Breaking News (Forum) » Boris Johnson sends unsig...

Sat Oct 19, 2019, 04:55 PM

Boris Johnson sends unsigned request to Brussels for Brexit delay

Last edited Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:52 PM - Edit history (2)

Source: The Guardian

Boris Johnson has sent a letter to European council president Donald Tusk requesting a further Brexit delay beyond 31 October. Despite the prime minister's insistence that he would not "negotiate" a further extension of the UK's membership of the EU, he confirmed on Saturday evening that he would be seeking such a prolongation.

Shortly after 10pm London time Tusk tweeted: "The extension request has just arrived. I will now start consulting EU leaders on how to react." Reports suggested Johnson had sent three letters: an unsigned photocopy of the request he was obliged to send under the Benn act, an explanatory letter from the UK's ambassador to the EU and a letter explaining why Downing Street did not want an extension.

An EU source said that in the call between Tusk and Johnson at 8.15pm Brussels time on Saturday the UK prime minister had confirmed that the request would be sent within hours. Tusk will now speak to the EU27 heads of state. "This may take a few days," the source said.

Officials in Brussels said there was no doubt that an extension request would be granted, despite the prime minister's attempts to throw doubt on such a decision. A decision on the terms could be taken later in October to allow for events to unfold in London.

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/19/eu-will-grant-brexit-extension-if-johnson-sends-letter-says-brussels



UPDATE: The Guardian updated their headline.

Original headline - Boris Johnson sends request to Brussels for Brexit delay

Here are the letters sent ( to Denzil_DC) -





Tweet at the OP article site which includes an additional letter sent -



TEXT

Mehreen

@MehreenKhn

🔔🔔 Here is the letter Boris Johnson has sent to Brussels tonight saying an extension would "damage" interests of the EU and UK


550
5:20 PM - Oct 19, 2019



18 replies, 1939 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread

Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Sat Oct 19, 2019, 04:58 PM

1. im confused..didnt he say..rather loudly..that he wouldnt?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to samnsara (Reply #1)

Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:12 PM

3. He also said loudly and repeatedly that there'd be no border in the Irish Sea,

which is exactly what the deal he's now so desperate to push through would bring about.

His deal is similar to but worse than the deal Theresa May brokered, which Johnson resigned from cabinet over then spent months trashing, rather loudly.

His words are worth nothing. The fact he can't be trusted is adding to the difficulties in finding a resolution to the situation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to samnsara (Reply #1)

Sun Oct 20, 2019, 06:17 PM

14. He didn't.

He did not sign the letter and argues against the extension in his letter. They are in the OP.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:06 PM

2. Why EU keeps approving these requests?

UK must bear collossal economic consequences or other countries will start leaving EU. When half the country finds itself in poverty, they’ll vote to rejoin EU in no time.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:22 PM

4. I think because

the UK comes in 2nd in EU GDP behind Germany and as a unified bloc, the EU has more negotiating power and leverage with other trade blocs like the rapidly-forming Asian/Pacific trade bloc and the western hemisphere countries and our bloc (that is unfortunately disintegrating before our eyes ).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #4)

Sat Oct 19, 2019, 08:29 PM

10. Yes, exactly.

It's complicated but makes sense if you're paying attention.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #2)

Sun Oct 20, 2019, 03:18 AM

11. A No Deal Brexit would be really bad for Ireland too

Other EU countries would suffer a bit, the UK a lot, and Ireland just as much as the UK, if not even more. A hell of a lot of Irish goods go in and out through the UK, including those going to/from the continent. And the Republic doesn't want a hard border with the Real IRA attacking it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:26 PM

5. The letter you've posted on the OP isn't the extension request.

It's Johnson's little whine about having to send the letter mandated by the Benn Act, purely for his fans and the over-excitable Sunday papers.

They in fact sent three: (1) a covering letter, (2) the letter you've posted above, and (3) the actual extension request. Johnson didn't sign the extension request, but legally that means nothing, and Tusk has accepted receipt of the request, says he's now acting on it, and has seemingly ignored the other one.

Here's the covering letter:



Here's the extension request:



The wording of the request is precisely as stipulated by the Benn Act.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #5)

Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:30 PM

6. Thank you. I just included the tweet that was included in the OP link's article

I had seen mention that something like "3 letters" were apparently sent by Johnson.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:35 PM

7. You're welcome, I completely understand the confusion.

It's rare to see a two-page tantrum on government notepaper. In a 280-character tweet, maybe ...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #7)

Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:53 PM

8. I added the images of those letters to the OP

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Sat Oct 19, 2019, 07:20 PM

9. Like tRUMP, Bo "ya doesn't have to call me Johnson" Jo has a lot of Class. Unfortunately,

it's all of the Low variety

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Sun Oct 20, 2019, 06:39 AM

12. Here are some interesting observations from Mike Hind about framing and PR in politics

and how the headline in the OP plays into Johnson et al.'s hands.

It has some relevance to the situation with Trump in the USA, too.

(Note to moderators: it's a Thread Reader transcript of a Twitter thread, so I don't believe it's subject to the usual four-paragraph limit on quotes.)

Downing St wants you to kick off about him not signing the letter.

This is a perfect example of Lakoffian framing.

The fact is that an unelected Prime Minister has again been humiliated by an elected Parliament.

A short explainer...

To win the PR air war you need to be first, with a fresh message, no matter the setback you just suffered. That's how you manipulate the media. By giving them a new story, to distract from the bad story.
Vote Leave (which is basically now the government) has been very adept at this.

Remember when the Electoral Commission ruled that Vote Leave had broken electoral law? They instantly declared the EC as "politically biased".

The story then? VL accuses EC of political bias?

See?

That is what we call framing.

Today's story is now about Johnson's 'defiance', rather than his humiliating political failure.


In the age of social media, those adept at framing have millions of people to manipulate. Most of us aren't aware of much comms theory, so we are easily manipulated into amplifying these talking points.

I too have been momentarily tempted to post some snarky 'hot takes' on Johnson not signing the extension request & sending a contradictory note. But reality bites when you spot the framing.

Today's story, behind the framing flannel, is that Johnson preferred to die in a ditch than do the thing he has been forced to do.

As ever, well-meaning people will argue the toss on this. Because often the last people to spot skilled manipulation are the skillfully manipulated.

Anyway, this is how to react

David Allen Green
@davidallengreen

Nothing in the latest tactical idiocy to cause alarm

The Benn Act letter is sent, these other reported letters legally inconsequential

Seems clever, and will impress the easily impressed, but nothing to worry about


If you're inspired to better understand framing, a good follow to consider is @dirktherabbit who consistently shines a light on these tactics

Framing is what the best journalists cut through, to bring you the real story. Which is why @BethRigby is one of my go-to sources for insight, rather than gossip

Jenni Russell
@jennirsl

Journalists refusing to be spun by access to the No 10 machine are the ones to read in this latest Brexit crisis - the fearless @BethRigby here.

Beth Rigby ✔ @BethRigby

Unspun version
1) Govt asks for a Brexit extension as legally required by Benn Act
2) PM writes an additional letter saying why he believes a delay is a mistake and he will not negotiate one


I should also recommend @jennirsl, who is calling out the same problem

Jenni Russell
@jennirsl

This is just a stunt by Johnson aimed at his base - but @peston is acting as his megaphone by sending the message Johnson wants out there; that he’s defiant. The truth is: he isn’t. He complied with the law. Peston’s doing No 10’s job here rather than his own.

Robert Peston ✔ @Peston

.@BorisJohnson will tonight stick two fingers up at the Benn Act by sending the letter to @eucopresident it stipulates asking for a three-month Brexit delay but refusing to sign it. He expects to see MPs in court.


What actually happened



Robert Hutton
@RobDotHutton

Narrator: He asked for a Brexit extension.


If you'd like to journey into the deeper subtleties of framing this, by @zephoria, is a brilliant introduction.

“Media Manipulation, Strategic Amplification, and Responsible Journalism” by danah boyd link.medium.com/Y5OvWhqZV0

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1185797486708961280.html

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #12)

Sun Oct 20, 2019, 07:19 AM

13. The fact that he has had defeat after defeat after defeat

to me means this has been nothing more than some kind of "face-saving" gesture ("never admit defeat" ). Compared to the "master" of distortion, obfuscation, and distraction here in the U.S., Johnson's antics are pretty tame. What Parliament does (and notably those in his party and/or in coalition) will be critical regarding how far he can go and where he will go.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Mon Oct 21, 2019, 07:32 AM

15. Two developments on this today.

(1) It's been confirmed by the EU that Johnson's attempt at distraction by not adding a handwritten signature to the request letter is just that - the extension request is valid without it:



Adam Parsons
@adamparsons

EU source tells me “it is of no consequence at all” that Boris Johnson didn’t sign the extension request letter


(2) The Scottish Court of Session has reconvened to hear its earlier adjourned case compelling Johnson to comply with the Benn Act by sending the letter and seeking an extension without trying to subvert the process though any other communication (the Padfield principle).

Although the accompanying signed two-page letter sailed close to the wind by saying Johnson didn't want an extension, it was carefully drafted not to infringe on the principle. As a result, Lords Carloway and O'Neill, who are hearing the case, have decided to continue it, effectively placing Johnson and the government under supervision. If they do appear to violate the Padfield principle during the rest of the extension request process, the court will reconvene again.

This is the best outcome from the case. Johnson's special adviser Dominic Cummings was briefing on Saturday that they were prepared to fight this in the Supreme Court if necessary, and some in the media were very excited at the prospect of more drama. Now they won't have the chance for such a grandstanding, rabble-rousing distraction.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #15)

Mon Oct 21, 2019, 07:40 AM

16. Thanks for the update!

Looks like it will be one of these -



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #16)

Mon Oct 21, 2019, 07:47 AM

17. That's EXACTLY what it is!

These developments didn't seem to be significant enough for a new OP, so this felt like a good place to post them (what's posted in the threads above should be enough to bring people up to speed if they haven't been following all this in detail).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #17)

Mon Oct 21, 2019, 11:16 AM

18. Looks like Bercow said "no" for reintroduction

So now the fuzzy exit needs some details with legislative meat -

Boris Johnson Suffers Another Brexit Setback

By The New York Times

Oct. 21, 2019
Updated 11:21 a.m. ET

LONDON — Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s Brexit plans ran into yet another roadblock, when a parliamentary official ruled that Mr. Johnson could not try again on Monday to win Parliament’s approval for his agreement with the European Union. The ruling by John Bercow, the speaker of the House of Commons, could have cleared the way for a showdown vote Monday evening on the deal that Mr. Johnson struck last week with officials in Brussels.

The prime minister had hoped to win parliamentary approval on Saturday, but he was blocked on a narrow vote, and Mr. Bercow ruled that the Commons could not legally take up the matter for a second time on an identical proposal. “It would be repetitive and disorderly to do so,” he said.

After the vote on Saturday, Mr. Johnson was forced to send a letter to the European Union requesting a further Brexit delay. Having vowed that Britain would leave as scheduled on Oct. 31, with or without an agreement in place, the prime minister also sent a separate letter arguing against a postponement.

The ruling is not a final defeat for Mr. Johnson’s plan. He could still win approval for it by getting Parliament to pass a far more detailed bill laying out the terms of Britain’s departure, though his opponents are likely to attempt to block that proposal as well.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/21/world/europe/boris-johnson-brexit.html


We need this kind of rule here that goes along the lines of “It would be repetitive and disorderly to do so” - notably with the 70+ times the GOP had tried to repeal the Affordable Care Act.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread