U.S. war resister to be deported from Canada today

[Newsjock]

Source: Canadian Press

An American soldier who sought refuge in Canada after she became disillusioned with the Iraq war has been ordered to leave the country by Thursday.

Kimberly Rivera has said she will comply with the Canadian government’s deportation order and leave the country with her family, but that hasn’t stopped her supporters from hoping for a last-minute intervention.

They’re calling on Immigration Minister Jason Kenney to halt Ms. Rivera’s deportation, arguing that the mother of four will likely face a court martial and jail time upon her return to the U.S.

... Nobel Peace Prize winner Archbishop Desmond Tutu and the American veterans organization Veterans for Peace have also spoken out against the deportation.

Read more: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/us-war-resister-to-be-deported-from-canada-today/article4556198/

[iandhr]

1. She volunteered.

People who volunteer should not be given the same consideration as those were drafted. This is not like Vietnam.

[Ash_F]

2. She was lied to just like a draftee /nt

[cstanleytech]

4. That makes..........no sense.

Feel free though to come up with a comparison that actually makes sense though.

[Jumping John]

5. Makes sense to me. Go ask General Stanley McCrystal for clarification. n/t

[cstanleytech]

9. No, I'll ask you to explain how can a draftee be lied to in order to get them to join when

a draftee is pretty much forced to join regardless.

[Jumping John]

15. There were plenty of lies about Iraq and the need for the war. Are you aware of

the fact that many died in the invasion of Iraq thinking that the lie that Blair stated that Saddam could initiate nuclear weapons in a mere 45 minutes was the truth?

They were lied to but died thinking that they could help divert a nuclear holocaust.

Sad thought isn't it?

[adigal]

27. Are you serious??? Recruiters are famous for lying

The recruiter of my friend's son told him that since he was a college graduate, he would go in as an officer and never see Iraq. Two IRAQ tours later, he is still not an officer, and won't be when he leaves. They are evil sacks of lying, the recruiters.

[cstanleytech]

29. OMG!!

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/draftee


Edit: And thats to both of you ^^

[Jumping John]

40. Are you aware that not all who served in Vietnam were draftees? And do you think that those

who sought asylum in Canada had already been drafted into the military?

And do you know why the asylum seekers were going to live in Canada?

It was to escape dictatorial politics and the desire to live on in a free society, and the fear of dying for corrupt politicians war mongering ways.

But I am sure that does not matter to you. I think you only see in black and white.

[cstanleytech]

41. Are you aware you are doing the same thing yet again?

Scroll up and read my damn post, no wait.
I will repost it since clearly its beyond your ability and I will even bold it to make it easier for you to see.

How can a draftee be lied to in order to get them to join when a draftee is pretty much forced to join regardless?

Got it? Good
Now answer the question of quit wasting my damn time.

[Lightbulb_on]

36. Out of curiosity...

Was there OCS in his contract?

One either enlists and then goes green to gold (or its equivalent) some years later... or

One goes straight to the OCS pipeline (Basic, OCS, OBC etc.. etc..)

In any case they are two very different processes and I guarantee he knew which one he was signed up for before he left.

Also, anyone who signs up with the condition of "non-deployable" deserves what they get.

It's the @#$@#ing military...

In any case, everything that he was promised should have been in his contract or it doesn't exist.

[adigal]

45. I know the kid messed up, but he was an honest young man

Who assumed the recruiter was honest too.

[Ash_F]

31. Let me put it another way

"She was crying, but there was no sound, just tears flowing out of her eyes. She was shaking. I have no idea what had happened in her little life. All I know is 1 wasn't seeing her: I was seeing my own little girl. I could imagine my daughter being one of those kids throwing rocks at soldiers, because maybe someone she loved had been killed. That Iraqi girl haunts my soul.'"

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-192099639.html

Good. For. Her.

Good day, fellow message board warrior.

[Jumping John]

3. So did you serve in Vietnam and Iraq for you to be so certain about this lady and

all the circumstances?

I mean both were just lousy attempts at a jobs program, weren't they?

Or you could make the argument that Iraq was indeed a threat to the USA, like the Bush Blatherers stated.

[cstanleytech]

7. I believe that iandhr might be right John and

the fact is that she didnt flee because she was going to be forced to join the military like so many were in the Vietnam era.

[Jumping John]

10. I believe that it was and is her duty to not participate in a war crime. And the trial of

Lt. Ehren Watada proved that the US military is not able to conduct a fair and just court.

[cstanleytech]

11. According to wiki she didnt serve in abu graib nor gitmo but rather she was a gate guard

in iraq and nothing has been shown to prove she was ordered to commit such a crime so I am not sure how that = major war crime.

[Jumping John]

13. The entire war is a war crime. But I am sure that you will never see how that is.

[cstanleytech]

14. OH course, I fully supported the invasion and thought the intel was rock solid

[Jumping John]

17. So which branch of the service did you serve with?

Yea that is a sarcasm too!

[cstanleytech]

19. Much like a good % of the DU here served probably.

[iandhr]

18. No I didn't.

I thought the Iraq war was a horrible mistake that hurt this nation badly. I opposed it when it was a minority position.


There is a big difference between and draftee and a volunteer. A draftee is FORCED to serve against their will. This person VOLUNTEERED. No one held a gun to her head.


Canada was right to shelter people who did not want to go to Vietnam when there was a draft. They are right now in not sheltering people who sign up willingly.

[Jumping John]

23. Many joined because the gun held to their head was not being able to find work. But judge people as

you will.

I think it takes a lot of courage to refuse to deploy after seeing that the war and the lies told about the war results in serving being a crime.

Good on her.

[mike_c]

6. she did the right thing....

The war against Iraq was a crime against humanity. Refusing to participate was the right thing to do.

[cstanleytech]

8. No, the right thing would have been not signing up in the first place.

[Jumping John]

12. She made the decision about Iraq after serving in Iraq. Saying that a person who volunteers to serve

in the military must accept all the circumstances that arise during that service, legal as well as illegal, because she volunteered to serve her country, is tantamount to involuntary servitude - slavery - to be exact.

For shame that someone could argue for this.

[cstanleytech]

16. Thats BS.

She joined in 2006 years after the story about Abu Ghraib broke so she knew she was going into a mess and to say that she thought otherwise is complete and utter BS, I could see if it was just before or as the war broke out because alot of people were fooled by the Bush administrations claims so ya it would make sense if she joined then but not by 2006 which is when she joined.
I'm not saying that she should be imprisoned though, thats a waste of resources imo but she should be given a dishonorable discharge and barred for life from working for the federal government.

[PavePusher]

20. Agree 100%. n/t

[Jumping John]

21. So you make the point that she should have decided that the war was FUBAR and should not have

joined but after she served and saw for herself how FUBARRED the war was she should have served because she volunteered.

And crimes and illegal atrocities was her cross to bear and participate in just because.

Slavery - I said it again.

[cstanleytech]

25. No, I am making the point your excuses arent making sense.

Also you dont need to post multiple replies to my post, learn to edit yours if you have something to add.
In fact I am willing to educate you on how to do it, first click the post you made then look for where it says "Edit post" on the bottom right side of what you posted, click it and then from there edit the post and then save it.
See, simple right?

[Jumping John]

26. No you make no sense. You judge this soldier on selected thinking based

on the reasoning that drafted inductees should be afforded more leniency than those who served voluntarily.

And you think that makes sense.

But the fact is that you feel a person who volunteers must serve without question because that person volunteered.

And I thought you were ignoring those added statements I posted because they made perfect sense.

Silly me.

Care to look at this site and reveal your feelings for these brave soldiers?

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/

It's membership includes a whole bunch of brave souls who you can judge as those who should have known better that to have served in the Iraq war.

Am I right?

Yup

[cstanleytech]

30. No, actually I am actually being pretty lenient to both as

I am not advocating prison time for either of the two and if you had read my posts you would have seen that.

[Jumping John]

22. Ever heard the phrase, "I was just following orders, mein herr" n/t

[Jumping John]

24. And participating in a war is always such a fun endeavor, too. For everyone involved. nt

[Ash_F]

32. It's never too late to start doing the right thing.

I agree that she shouldn't have signed up in the first place, but it is never too late to do the right thing.

There was a big difference between the party line on Iraq and what was actually being done there. First hand experience lifted the rose-colored glasses off a lot of soldiers.

[cstanleytech]

38. You would think that the abu ghraib photos from 2 years before she enlisted would have removed those

those glasses.

[Ash_F]

39. Yeah, but the ridiculous spin and minimizing on tv at the time didn't help.

The tv bots did their best to excuse those events in the eyes of the American people. Shoot, a lot of of DUers tried pretty hard here as well.

I am not going criticize this woman for taking a stand now. More need to do like her and be given our support.

[cstanleytech]

43. I guess I'll never understand how people could have willingly blinded themselves

though to the runup to the invasion let alone to how it was going for years.
I mean the writing was clear as day to me atleast that the whole excuse to invade was BS and we should have just let the sanctions remain in place, in fact if I didnt know any better I would say the same people are trying the same shit now with Iran albeit at a slower pace.

[coalition_unwilling]

28. Even if she volunteered, she is not required to participate in an ongoing war crime

and crime against humanity.

http://www.ivaw.org/wintersoldier

WTF????

[LiberalLovinLug]

33. No one should be forced to kill another against their will

In a different article, author Noah Richler says it best:

"And yet, a survey Angus Reid conducted last year shows that, in every province, a majority of Canadians favours allowing war resisters to stay. What these Canadians know is that it is simply barbaric for a society to force a person to kill when he or she does not want to. God knows there are enough who will do so even when they are not asked."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/dodging-war-whos-the-hero/article1146817/

I share my fellow Canadian's view. I am appalled to read views on this board that would not respect this conviction.
Whether war resisters came to the conclusion that the Iraq war was illegal or immoral.....before or after they enlisted, should not enter the conversation.

I can't believe what I'm reading on this thread. Because they signed a piece of paper all their morals must be thrown out the window?

[cstanleytech]

34. If this was a case where she was ordered so to assist in torturing someone or shooting them

in cold and she refused (as she or any other soldier should rightly do) then yes, of course she should be granted asylum.
But hey show me where she was given an actual illegal order like those above and I for one would fully support her being granted asylum and join the call to see that those who gave the order in the first place be brought up on charges.

[Blue_Tires]

35. I don't get it...

Canada has had a couple of notable cases in the past couple of years where they have granted asylum on pretty flimsy and highly questionable cases...Maybe she just needed a better attorney or something...

[CreekDog]

37. It's Harper

there's your trouble.

[DeSwiss]

42. Canada, you really need to get rid of Harper's ass.

- Thank you. I know you're doing the best you can.

K&R

[Pterodactyl]

44. Is Canada still morally superior to the US? I've lost track.