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Mon Dec 30, 2019, 12:46 PM

 

River Oaks Man Identified as Gunman in White Settlement Church Shooting

Source: NBCFW.com

The man who fatally shot two people at a White Settlement Church on Sunday before he was killed by church security has been identified as 43-year-old Keith Thomas Kinnunen, of River Oaks, according to two law enforcement sources.

The victims in the church shooting have been identified by family members as Anton Wallace, a church deacon, and Richard White.

Kinnunen had a criminal record in Tarrant County including charges of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon in 2009 and theft of property in 2013.



Read more: https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/river-oaks-man-identified-as-shooter-in-white-settlement-church/2283777/



This obvious Trump supporter also had a felony gun possession charge in New Jersey in 2016.

How does he pass a background check for a sawed off shotgun?

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Arrow 33 replies Author Time Post
Reply River Oaks Man Identified as Gunman in White Settlement Church Shooting (Original post)
Sonny Mirviss Dec 2019 OP
mikeysnot Dec 2019 #1
Raster Dec 2019 #2
Lucky Luciano Dec 2019 #5
Sonny Mirviss Dec 2019 #6
Judi Lynn Dec 2019 #16
Igel Dec 2019 #22
braddy Dec 2019 #29
FBaggins Dec 2019 #3
Brother Buzz Dec 2019 #4
brooklynite Dec 2019 #7
regnaD kciN Dec 2019 #12
phandancer917 Dec 2019 #8
NutmegYankee Dec 2019 #9
AtheistCrusader Dec 2019 #13
phandancer917 Dec 2019 #17
EX500rider Dec 2019 #19
AtheistCrusader Dec 2019 #27
safeinOhio Dec 2019 #18
AtheistCrusader Dec 2019 #24
The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2019 #28
raccoon Dec 2019 #10
Igel Dec 2019 #21
AtheistCrusader Dec 2019 #25
Sancho Dec 2019 #11
AtheistCrusader Dec 2019 #15
Sancho Dec 2019 #32
AtheistCrusader Dec 2019 #33
ancianita Dec 2019 #14
Paladin Dec 2019 #20
Igel Dec 2019 #23
Calista241 Dec 2019 #26
NutmegYankee Dec 2019 #30
Vinca Dec 2019 #31

Response to Sonny Mirviss (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 12:53 PM

1. Motive?

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Response to Sonny Mirviss (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 12:57 PM

2. Please clarify: "obvious tRump* supporter"...

... Sorry, but nothing I have read so far indicates that this person was a tRump* supporter unless you have access to other information.

and (2) Sawed-off shotguns are ILLEGAL, and not purchased. They are usually illicitly made by the user.

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Response to Raster (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 01:12 PM

5. White guy in Texas plus a gun nut. I'll take the odds on this one.

Last edited Mon Dec 30, 2019, 01:49 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to Raster (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 01:15 PM

6. Angry white dude

 

Whose 1st target was Anton “Tony” Wallace, a black Deacon of the Church for one thing.
Had to be a racist Trumper, what else explains it.

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Response to Sonny Mirviss (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 02:34 PM

16. Thank you for your post. It's so good he missed. He doesn't sound like any Democrat I've known.

Welcome to D.U.

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Response to Sonny Mirviss (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 03:52 PM

22. And the other guy killed was white.

50-50. As for who he went for first, he may have just picked an easy target. The white guy was apparently on the security team.

Most pictures I can find of the congregation say "old and mostly white." If you're gunning for black congregants it seems like that's a poor choice of venues. Unless there was something between the deacon and his killer.

A cousin church to my old digs had a shooting during services. Guy barged in and started shooting. It wasn't ideological, racial, or doctrine-related; it was strictly personal. Those kinds of things need to be ruled out, unless there's a manifesto or some diary that points to the killer's motives.

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Response to Sonny Mirviss (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 04:20 PM

29. He shot the white man first.

 

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Response to Sonny Mirviss (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 01:05 PM

3. What makes you think that he passed a background check for a sawed off shotgun?

They're already illegal.

Note that he already had a prior history of owning a firearm that he wasn't allowed to have.

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Response to Sonny Mirviss (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 01:07 PM

4. You don't need to pass no stinking background check to bag an illegal sawn-off shotgun

You just have to hook-up with a dude wearing dark glasses and a trench coat in a dark alley. Simple, no?

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Response to Sonny Mirviss (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 01:22 PM

7. Why is it obvious that he was a Trump supporter?

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 01:59 PM

12. Not obvious to me...

For one thing, the Church of Christ down there (not to be confused with the progressive mainstream United Church of Christ) is an extremely conservative fundamentalist denomination. I'd say it's a safe bet that at least 80% of the average CofC congregation would be diehard Trumpers themselves, so it isn't as if the guy shot up a "liberal" church.

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Response to Sonny Mirviss (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 01:38 PM

8. Shotguns

You do not need to pass any checks for a shotgun. You can buy them in most sporting good places and any gun store.


As for the sawed off part -- that is illegal in all states. Only requires a hacksaw to make one....


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Response to phandancer917 (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 01:41 PM

9. A NICS background check is still required from a retail establishment

But this is Texas, and the only requirement to buy a gun from a private seller is a pulse.

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Response to phandancer917 (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 02:11 PM

13. What, of course you do.

There is still a federal NICS check for 'most sporting good places and gun stores', even for a shotgun.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 02:45 PM

17. My mistake on that

I have not purchased a Shotgun in years....did not remember doing anything but paying.

However, like previous poster said -- private sales, online sales etc do not require any checks.

Plus -- unless he had a felony/mental illness hold -- would have passed anyway

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Response to phandancer917 (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 03:13 PM

19. Online sales also require background check unless you are buying it from a private seller..

...who is not a dealer.

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Response to phandancer917 (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 04:05 PM

27. They are currently reporting he had a disqualifying felony conviction.

Online sales require FFL transfer. SOME states don't require FFL transfer for private sales, but some do, and the list of states that don't require it is shrinking year over year.

States that require for private transfer:

California
Colorado
Connecticut
Delaware
District of Columbia
Nevada[a]
New Jersey
New Mexico
New York
Oregon
Rhode Island
Vermont
Washington
Hawaii
Illinois
Massachusetts

(The last three require a firearms license to transfer, so it has the same effect. If you sold a gun to someone with a license, you know they passed the background check. No license, illegal sale, seller goes to jail.)

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 03:12 PM

18. Private sales, garage sales, parking lot of gun shows and

on line.

Back ground checks are only for Fed Gun Dealers. Other than that it depends on the state.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 04:00 PM

24. Also not correct.

Private and Garage sales are legal in SOME states, without background check. (Private transfers)
Gun shows, and the parking lot of same, also, only SOME states.

My state:
RCW 9.41.113
Firearm sales or transfers—Background checks—Requirements—Exceptions.
(1) All firearm sales or transfers, in whole or part in this state including without limitation a sale or transfer where either the purchaser or seller or transferee or transferor is in Washington, shall be subject to background checks unless specifically exempted by state or federal law. The background check requirement applies to all sales or transfers including, but not limited to, sales and transfers through a licensed dealer, at gun shows, online, and between unlicensed persons.


Online sales are controlled by the state in which the buyer/seller are residents of, or if the sale crosses state lines, federal requirements (shipment to FFL, background check before transferring to the recipient) apply.

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Response to phandancer917 (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 04:07 PM

28. They are legal as long as the barrel is at least 18" long.

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Response to Sonny Mirviss (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 01:47 PM

10. Does it seem to anybody besides me, that it took a long time for them to reveal the killer's

identity?

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Response to raccoon (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 03:49 PM

21. 24 hours.

Not out of the ordinary. Don't know if he had ID on him, but they probably didn't want his next of kin to hear about his death from the news.

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Response to Igel (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 04:01 PM

25. I think it's less about the family, and more about time to discover evidence, check the home

and pull any online social media accounts offline.

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Response to Sonny Mirviss (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 01:51 PM

11. People Control, Not Gun Control


This is my generic response to gun threads where people are shot and killed by the dumb or criminal possession of guns. For the record, I grew up in the South and on military bases. I was taught about firearms as a child, and I grew up hunting, was a member of the NRA, and I still own guns. In the 70’s, I dropped out of the NRA because they become more radical and less interested in safety and training. Some personal experiences where people I know were involved in shootings caused me to realize that anyone could obtain and posses a gun no matter how illogical it was for them to have a gun. Also, easy access to more powerful guns, guns in the hands of children, and guns that weren’t secured are out of control in our society. As such, here’s what I now think ought to be the requirements to possess a gun. I’m not debating the legal language, I just think it’s the reasonable way to stop the shootings. Notice, none of this restricts the type of guns sold. This is aimed at the people who shoot others, because it’s clear that they should never have had a gun.

1.) Anyone in possession of a gun (whether they own it or not) should have a regularly renewed license. If you want to call it a permit, certificate, or something else that's fine.
2.) To get a license, you should have a background check, and be examined by a professional for emotional and mental stability appropriate for gun possession. It might be appropriate to require that examination to be accompanied by references from family, friends, employers, etc. This check is not to subject you to a mental health diagnosis, just check on your superficial and apparent gun-worthyness.
3.) To get the license, you should be required to take a safety course and pass a test appropriate to the type of gun you want to use.
4.) To get a license, you should be over 21. Under 21, you could only use a gun under direct supervision of a licensed person and after obtaining a learner’s license. Your license might be restricted if you have children or criminals or other unsafe people living in your home. (If you want to argue 18 or 25 or some other age, fine. 21 makes sense to me.)
5.) If you possess a gun, you would have to carry a liability insurance policy specifically for gun ownership - and likely you would have to provide proof of appropriate storage, security, and whatever statistical reasons that emerge that would drive the costs and ability to get insurance.
6.) You could not purchase a gun or ammunition without a license, and purchases would have a waiting period.
7.) If you possess a gun without a license, you go to jail, the gun is impounded, and a judge will have to let you go (just like a DUI).
8.) No one should carry an unsecured gun (except in a locked case, unloaded) when outside of home. Guns should be secure when transporting to a shooting event without demonstrating a special need. Their license should indicate training and special carry circumstances beyond recreational shooting (security guard, etc.). If you are carrying your gun while under the influence of drugs or alcohol, you lose your gun and license.
9.) If you buy, sell, give away, or inherit a gun, your license information should be recorded.
10.) If you accidentally discharge your gun, commit a crime, get referred by a mental health professional, are served a restraining order, etc., you should lose your license and guns until reinstated by a serious relicensing process.

Most of you know that a license is no big deal. Besides a driver’s license you need a license to fish, operate a boat, or many other activities. I realize these differ by state, but that is not a reason to let anyone without a bit of sense pack a semiautomatic weapon in public, on the roads, and in schools. I think we need to make it much harder for some people to have guns.

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Response to Sancho (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 02:21 PM

15. He was unlawfully in possession of an illegal firearm. I see nothing in this list that would have

helped in any way. That firearm was flat-out illegal for him to possess. As a felon, he could not have passed even a normal background check, let alone an AOW/NFA check for a short-barreled (less than 18" shotgun.

Just holding that gun in his hands was two separate felony counts carrying 10 year/$100,000 fines.

Item 8 in your list would have constrained the number of armed responders in the room. The 'Security guard' that shot him in the head, was just a volunteer dude. It's not like he was Pinkerton or something.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 06:16 PM

32. He would not have easy access to guns or ammunition...

...and it would be much more likely he would have not possessed a gun.

It has nothing to do with "legality". It has to do with EASY access to guns, ammo, transportation, etc.

No law is foolproof, but the US is out of control.

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Response to Sancho (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 06:29 PM

33. Texas may have that issue. I don't know their laws.

An increasing number of states block all transfers without background check.

Not knowing how he got his guns and ammo, I will not speculate on how easy it was for him to acquire.

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Response to Sonny Mirviss (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 02:14 PM

14. Well, he won't anymore. nt

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Response to Sonny Mirviss (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 03:44 PM

20. River Oaks? As in River Oaks, Houston?

Gotta be a story to go with this.

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Response to Paladin (Reply #20)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 03:54 PM

23. I'm thinking not.

I live in Houston, so had to check it out.

Try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Oaks,_Texas for the more likely candidate. DFW-adjacent.

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Response to Sonny Mirviss (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 04:02 PM

26. Frankly, I'm amazed there was no additional shooting by all the concealed carry permit holders.

This video is going to be exhibit number 1 for all the anti-gun control activists in the country. Not only did they stop a mass shooting in progress, but the shooter was taken down by an outgunned pistol armed citizen. And it was all captured on video, so nobody will ever forget it.

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #26)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 05:35 PM

30. Armed citizen who happens to be trained law enforcement and actively serving as a guard.

And one of the guards was shot dead while going for his pistol. Not that clean.

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Response to Sonny Mirviss (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 05:38 PM

31. So I guess it's safe to assume Ken Cuccinelli won't be opining about the guy's immigrant

father and failure to integrate into society. He's just your basic gun humping, hate monger.

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