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Mon Jan 13, 2020, 06:29 PM

Push to ban assault weapons in Virginia meets resistance

Source: Associated Press


Alan Suderman, Associated Press
Updated 11:30 am CST, Monday, January 13, 2020



Photo: Steve Helber, AP
IMAGE 2 OF 14
Gun law advocate, Pam Douchet, of York county, holds a sign during the meeting of the Senate Judiciary committee at the Capitol in Richmond, Va., Monday, Jan. 13, 2020. The Committee passed several gun related bills


RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — Some top Virginia Democratic senators are expressing reservations about plans to ban assault weapons — a key part of the new Democratic majority's gun-control proposals and one that's drawn fierce resistance from gun-rights advocates.

“A lot of people don't really understand assault weapons and how complicated the issue really is," said Democratic Sen. John Edwards. “It's going to be very difficult to figure out a way to do it. But we're studying it, that's all I can say.”

He's one of at least four moderate senators — the others are Sens. Chap Petersen, Creigh Deeds and Lynwood Lewis — who are skeptical of plans to ban assault weapons. None of them has ruled out voting for an assault weapon ban, but all have said they aren't impressed with any of the drafts of proposed bans they've seen.

“I've not seen an enforceable bill that makes sense yet,” Deeds said.

Read more: https://www.chron.com/news/us/article/Push-to-ban-assault-weapons-in-Virginia-meets-14971396.php#photo-18872825

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Arrow 125 replies Author Time Post
Reply Push to ban assault weapons in Virginia meets resistance (Original post)
Judi Lynn Monday OP
turbinetree Monday #1
hack89 Monday #3
turbinetree Monday #4
lunasun Tuesday #27
Jose Garcia Wednesday #64
dware Wednesday #75
NickB79 Monday #9
chowder66 Monday #2
BuffaloJackalope Monday #5
melm00se Tuesday #28
BuffaloJackalope Tuesday #30
spin Tuesday #51
BuffaloJackalope Tuesday #52
spin Tuesday #55
JonLP24 Wednesday #69
spin Wednesday #73
fallout87 Wednesday #72
BuffaloJackalope Wednesday #74
dware Wednesday #76
BuffaloJackalope Wednesday #77
dware Wednesday #80
BuffaloJackalope Wednesday #81
dware Wednesday #82
BuffaloJackalope Wednesday #86
dware Wednesday #90
BuffaloJackalope Wednesday #94
dware Wednesday #96
BuffaloJackalope Wednesday #99
dware Wednesday #101
BuffaloJackalope Wednesday #102
dware Wednesday #103
BuffaloJackalope Wednesday #104
dware Wednesday #105
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply .
BuffaloJackalope Wednesday #106
dware Wednesday #107
fallout87 Wednesday #108
BuffaloJackalope Thursday #112
fallout87 Thursday #116
BuffaloJackalope Thursday #118
Evolve Dammit Monday #6
James48 Tuesday #19
Evolve Dammit Tuesday #32
fallout87 Wednesday #110
Kaleva Thursday #121
Evolve Dammit Thursday #122
Kaleva Thursday #123
Evolve Dammit Thursday #124
Kaleva Thursday #125
X_Digger Tuesday #48
spin Tuesday #54
Evolve Dammit Wednesday #70
dware Wednesday #79
Devil Child Thursday #114
LonePirate Monday #7
Liberalhammer Monday #8
EX500rider Tuesday #34
Liberalhammer Tuesday #47
EX500rider Tuesday #50
dware Wednesday #62
bucolic_frolic Monday #10
oldsoftie Monday #11
maxsolomon Tuesday #40
oldsoftie Tuesday #57
Devil Child Monday #12
maxsolomon Tuesday #38
Devil Child Tuesday #41
maxsolomon Tuesday #44
Devil Child Tuesday #45
maxsolomon Tuesday #46
jayfish Thursday #115
James48 Tuesday #13
Aristus Tuesday #15
James48 Tuesday #17
Archae Tuesday #21
Aristus Tuesday #22
lagomorph777 Tuesday #25
EX500rider Tuesday #36
EX500rider Tuesday #35
maxsolomon Tuesday #43
EX500rider Tuesday #49
EX500rider Wednesday #59
maxsolomon Wednesday #66
fallout87 Wednesday #111
maxsolomon Thursday #119
Kaleva Tuesday #31
maxsolomon Wednesday #68
Kaleva Wednesday #71
maxsolomon Thursday #117
Kaleva Thursday #120
fallout87 Wednesday #109
Aristus Tuesday #14
dware Tuesday #20
Aristus Tuesday #23
dware Tuesday #26
BuffaloJackalope Wednesday #91
dware Wednesday #93
BuffaloJackalope Wednesday #95
dware Wednesday #98
ripcord Tuesday #58
EX500rider Wednesday #63
Archae Tuesday #16
maxsolomon Tuesday #39
liskddksil Tuesday #18
lagomorph777 Tuesday #24
Evolve Dammit Tuesday #33
lagomorph777 Wednesday #60
Evolve Dammit Tuesday #37
Kaleva Tuesday #42
lagomorph777 Wednesday #61
zanana1 Tuesday #29
Calista241 Tuesday #53
underpants Tuesday #56
apnu Wednesday #65
Tom Yossarian Joad Wednesday #67
PoindexterOglethorpe Wednesday #78
Devil Child Wednesday #83
dware Wednesday #84
BuffaloJackalope Wednesday #87
dware Wednesday #88
BuffaloJackalope Wednesday #89
dware Wednesday #92
BuffaloJackalope Wednesday #97
dware Wednesday #100
Devil Child Thursday #113
PoindexterOglethorpe Wednesday #85

Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 06:36 PM

1. If New Zealand can ban guns then this country can ban guns........................

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Response to turbinetree (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 06:41 PM

3. Not really. At least not for a long time

You would have to change the Constitution or overturn Heller first. Besides changing public opinion first.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 06:46 PM

4. Oh yeah, I forgot about the Heller rule...................

................Thanks for the reminder.................it's still a sick law in my opinion.......................

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Response to turbinetree (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:02 AM

27. It will be hard- look at what was resisted in Heller even the part

that lawfully owned rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock" was considered an unconstitutional move
Then the later Supreme Court Chicago ban case and others lawsuits closed any local loopholes to try to stop
We had a AWB that needed to be expanded but instead bush let expire . That would be a start to readdress the AWB at least

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Response to lunasun (Reply #27)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:14 PM

64. Correction: Congress let AWB expire

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Response to lunasun (Reply #27)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 09:54 PM

75. Bush did not let the AWB expire, Congress did,

Bush said he would sign it if it made it to his desk.

Learn the facts before posting please.

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Response to turbinetree (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 08:31 PM

9. New Zealand's ban got around 10% of the firearms it targeted

The buyback program was little used by gun owners.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 06:39 PM

2. The don't "need" assault weapons. They can buy other guns or maybe a security system. nt

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 06:47 PM

5. If you really believe you need an assault weapon, you really shouldn't be allowed any weapons.

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Response to BuffaloJackalope (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:17 AM

28. the differences between civilian AR-15 pattern rifles

and many other semi automatic rifles are almost purely cosmetic.

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Response to melm00se (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 12:47 PM

30. I REALLY DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK!!

Your pedantic inane gunsplaining doesn't do anything to solve the problem of TOO MANY FUCKING GUNS!

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Response to BuffaloJackalope (Reply #30)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 09:29 PM

51. Every time our party pushes for gun control the gun sales skyrocket. (n/t)

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Response to spin (Reply #51)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 09:35 PM

52. And if you're not offering a solution, then you're part of the problem.

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Response to BuffaloJackalope (Reply #52)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 09:55 PM

55. I don't have a solution. I am just pointing out a simple truth. ...

I own firearms but I don’t run out and buy more when new gun legislation is being discussed. For example i don’t own an AR-15 because I have no use for one. I don’t hunt and fortunately the property I am currently living on in a rural area does not have a destructive feral hog population.

I really do not understand why people buy firearms they don’t need because of proposed legislation.

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Response to spin (Reply #51)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 06:30 PM

69. They were out buying guns in droves when Obama was elected

Nothing happened to guns in his entire 8 years but they were buying them like crazy over the election of Obama.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #69)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 09:29 PM

73. A President from the Democratic Party will find it almost impossible to pass gun legislation. ...

However we would have a new Federal Assault Weapons Ban in place if either McCain or Romney had been elected president.

Enough elected Republicans will support gun legislation when a Republican president pushes it to get it to pass. Few if any will vote for gun legislation pushed by a Democrat in the Oval Office.

Trump will never push for strong gun control. He has (or had) one of the extremely rare carry licenses in New York City. I’ll bet he also has a Florida concealed weapons permit.

Ex-cop claims Trump got VIP treatment for gun license
https://nypost.com/2019/01/23/ex-cop-claims-trump-got-vip-treatment-for-gun-license/

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Response to BuffaloJackalope (Reply #30)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 09:14 PM

72. So facts

DOnt matter to you? If we are going to win this fight, we need to be correct about what we say. Interjecting emotion as a response to a person who tried to explain a fact to you hardly helps.

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Response to fallout87 (Reply #72)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 09:53 PM

74. Facts - gun worshipers care more about guns than the human beings who get killed by them.

Facts - distractions about FUCKING GUN FASHION don't do anything to make our horrendous, outrageous & horrific gun death toll go down.

Facts - pretending false concern about "emotion" when faced with that horrific gun death toll shows a complete lack of empathy for those victims. Anyone lacking such necessary empathy does not belong in this discussion.

Facts - America has WAAAAAAY too many guns. Any discussion that does not aim to reduce them is counter-productive.

So go away and polish your pistol.

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Response to BuffaloJackalope (Reply #74)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 09:58 PM

76. So emotions matter more than facts to you?

So go away and polish your pistol?

Yeah, that's the way to win the gun control debate.

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Response to dware (Reply #76)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 09:59 PM

77. 30,000+ facts each year (dead people) count more than gun worshipers emotions.

As they would for any functional adult

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Response to BuffaloJackalope (Reply #77)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:06 PM

80. And 2/3rd's of those 30,000 are suicides, who would have found a

different way to end their life.

Quit with the emotions and stick to the facts, you might actually get somewhere with this debate.

And before you call me a gun worshiper, I don't own a firearm, but I don't have a problem with firearm ownership, including so called "assault weapons".

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Response to dware (Reply #80)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:13 PM

81. As if suicide victims are less-than-human. There's that lack of empathy again.

And if you don't have a problem with assault weapons, you're not addressing the FACTS and succumbing to gun worshipers EMOTIONS.

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Response to BuffaloJackalope (Reply #81)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:14 PM

82. Ok, whatever you say must be true,

because, you know, emotions vs facts.

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Response to dware (Reply #82)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:28 PM

86. But you keep skipping over the facts & clinging to emotions.

Like the gun worshipers, the terrorists at the Russia-backed NRA, and weapons dealers have done a piss-poor job at protecting the general public from their toy hobby. It's an absolute & total failure. Because guns are more important to them than humans.

But you have nothing to say about that.

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Response to BuffaloJackalope (Reply #86)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:36 PM

90. What ever you say must be true. nt.

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Response to dware (Reply #90)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:38 PM

94. And you can't defend your stance anymore, so you're stuck in a loop.

Run out of script?

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Response to BuffaloJackalope (Reply #94)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:39 PM

96. See post #90. nt

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Response to dware (Reply #96)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:40 PM

99. And you're too lazy to even try anymore. Pretty sad...

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Response to BuffaloJackalope (Reply #99)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:41 PM

101. See post #90. nt

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Response to dware (Reply #101)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:43 PM

102. Pathetic when Maria Butina can't help you. In'nit?

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Response to BuffaloJackalope (Reply #102)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:49 PM

103. See post #90. nt

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Response to dware (Reply #103)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:56 PM

104. You're just reiterating the fact that you've lost here.

Driving it home, as it were.

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Response to BuffaloJackalope (Reply #104)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:59 PM

105. i'm on my 34 hour reset,

I can keep this up for hours if you wish, but I won't, you're not a worthy adversary.

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Response to dware (Reply #105)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 11:07 PM

106. .

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Response to BuffaloJackalope (Reply #106)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 11:10 PM

107. See post #105. nt.

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Response to BuffaloJackalope (Reply #74)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 11:30 PM

108. More emotions

The poster above pointed out to you that the difference between an AR-15 and most other rifles are cosmetic features... ones that are hard to legislate. And you respond, once again, void of facts, purely emotion. Where does that get us? You feel all warm n' fuzzy inside?

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Response to fallout87 (Reply #108)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 07:38 AM

112. Anyone who doesn't expedience human emotions when confronted with 30,000+ gun deaths

Isn't qualified to discuss this issue.

Same as with gun worshiper so emotionally attached to their toys that 30,000+ humans being killed doesn't sway them.

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Response to BuffaloJackalope (Reply #112)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 11:43 AM

116. You can experience human emotion

and also care about facts at the same time. Seriously, not that hard.

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Response to fallout87 (Reply #116)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 11:50 AM

118. Gun worshipers don't care about facts.

Like, at all.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 07:17 PM

6. NRA Fascist Assholes. Nobody is taking away HUNTING weapons. Smile on.

It's weapons of war we have a problem with. The Army needs them; you don't.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 12:46 AM

19. AR-15's aren't generally "weapons of war".

They aren’t automatic. They aren’t found on most battlefields.

In the USA, far more people are killed with handguns than rifles. Are you actually interested in reducing gun deaths? Then banning handguns is likely to k ok was to fewer gun deaths.

Just trying to understand here.

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Response to James48 (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:25 PM

32. They also aren't typically used for hunting. If you want home defense a 12 gauge is all you need.

AR's are fun but in the wrong hands, or modified do way more damage than hunting arms. They are also not necessary in a supposedly "civilized" society." That's all I'm saying. For us not to have comprehensive background checks, allow gun show "loopholes" etc. is ridiculous. AR's are not necessary; cool or fun, yeah. Not necessary. And certainly not what the founders could ever have envisioned in the flintlock days.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Reply #32)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 11:34 PM

110. 2nd amendment says nothing about hunting

Not sure where that came along, but there's no constitutional right to hunt... only to keep and bear arms. Agree or disagree, its what the BOR says.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Reply #32)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 01:03 PM

121. You can buy an AR-15 style gun that fires 12 gauge shells.

"The FR-98 12 Ga. Tactical Shotgun. Great firearm for use in Sport shooting or Home Defense."

https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/products/fr-98-ar15-shotgun-fedarm

Maybe you're fine with a pump action AR15 style rifle which can be found here:

"ComGraf's Pump Action Rifle is a conversion of the AR-platform which avoids the provisions of the CT Assault Weapons Ban by changing the rifle to a manually operated (not semi-automatic) system."

https://www.ctlegalars.com/pump-action-rifle

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #121)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 02:52 PM

122. No need. The average number of rounds exchanged when a shotgun is involved is...one.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Reply #122)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 03:02 PM

123. The AR-15 shotgun is a shotgun.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #123)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 03:04 PM

124. Yeah I get it. My point is that a single shot works just as well.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Reply #124)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 03:10 PM

125. For some it might be. My next purchase is going to be a single shot shotgun.

I don't need anymore firepower then that and it's as reliable and simple to operate as one can get. And they can be had for well less then $200.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 08:39 PM

48. Actually, a lot of folks do use them for hunting.

They're light, hard to scratch, easy to maintain, and available in many calibers.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 09:46 PM

54. The AR-15 is definitely used for hunting. ...

A quick search on the net will teach you that.

Here Are 7 Animals Hunters Kill Using an AR-15
https://time.com/4390506/gun-control-ar-15-semiautomatic-rifles/

In many states the number of rounds your clip or magazine can contain is limited while you are hunting game. For example in Florida the magazine for your semi-automatic rifle can only hold five rounds.

Taking Game Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission
https://myfwc.com/hunting/regulations/taking-game/

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Response to spin (Reply #54)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 07:35 PM

70. I don't need teaching. Have been a gun owner since age 10. Thanks.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Reply #70)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:02 PM

79. Apparently you do.

The AR-15 platform is very popular for hunting, it's configured in various calibers, it's light weight, easy to handle, low recoil, etc.

I would say you do need some teaching about the AR-15 platform.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 09:40 AM

114. Second amendment has nothing to do with hunting n/t

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 07:17 PM

7. Dems need to stop being intimidated by a bunch of gun humping, racist, white wingers.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 07:28 PM

8. All i see i a bunch of

Racist old white people.

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Response to Liberalhammer (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:37 PM

34. Wow, you can tell they are all racist? Can you give me the lotto numbers then too please?

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #34)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 07:39 PM

47. The right

Is racist and mostly white.

Have a problem with that?

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Response to Liberalhammer (Reply #47)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 08:59 PM

50. I don't even know they are all right wing in the shot. Not 100% of NRA members are Republicans.

Last edited Thu Jan 16, 2020, 01:57 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to Liberalhammer (Reply #47)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:36 AM

62. What's with the attitude? nt

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 08:33 PM

10. Is that the well-regulated militia?

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 09:47 PM

11. Almost all counties is the state have passed 2nd amendment "sanctuary" laws

This law wont go anywhere

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:59 PM

40. Which are as meaningless as "Sanctuary Cities"

where ICE operates with impunity.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #40)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:16 PM

57. Which cities are those? ICE gets stymied on a regular basis by sanctuary cities!

And the threat of holding back funding will go as far as trump's doing it.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 10:55 PM

12. Shall not be infringed indeed!

Best of luck to those Virginians opposing their liberty being stamped out.

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Response to Devil Child (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:54 PM

38. Already "Infringed". Can't buy an Automatic without a Federal Permit

Did that "stamp out" your "Liberty"?

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #38)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 07:00 PM

41. Yes n/t

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Response to Devil Child (Reply #41)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 07:03 PM

44. very fragile Liberty you got there.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #44)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 07:08 PM

45. Glad you see it as such

Liberty is fragile and is under threat continuously whether its concerning the 2nd amendment, 1st, or any of our liberties for that matter.

Liberty should be treated as fragile and protected as such.

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Response to Devil Child (Reply #45)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 07:14 PM

46. NO ONE IS TAKING YOUR FIREARMS.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #46)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 10:07 AM

115. Exactly!

This is a losing issue that loses the Left votes. Why do we continually push it?

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 12:13 AM

13. I'm just curious-

I’m a Democrat- a Union member, gun owning, pro-life Democrat in Michigan.

Can any of you explain to me what you think the definition of “assault weapon” is, or should be?

Just asking to try and understand. By the way- an AR-15 is America’s most sold firearm. No, nobody “needs” an AR-15, but they are enjoyable to shoot, are reasonably inexpensive to use, and I just don’t understand what this “assault weapon” label is intended to do.

Thanks.

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Response to James48 (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 12:18 AM

15. Oh fuck; here we go.

Someone else 'concerned' over the definition of an assault rifle.

Jesus. Who gives a fuck what Webster's dictionary calls an assault rifle? I think offering the capability to massacre dozens of people very quickly with little effort is definition enough. That's one of the many things I can't stand about gun-fucks. They want the capacity to commit mass-murder, but they don't want their firearm to have a scary name, because people would ban it if it did.

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Response to Aristus (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 12:42 AM

17. You didn't answer the question, you just insulted.

You can kill a lot of people with a car, but nobody is demanding Fords are banned, now are they?

My question was simply- what do you dislike about certain firearms, and what makes it “an assault weapon” that you want to ban ownership of, vs “a hunting rifle” that most folks agree is fine to own?

I’m fine with background checks, with training, with licensing if necessary, but I don’t get what the “ ban assault weapons” crowd is really after here. An AR-15 is much less powerful than most hunting rifles.
Help me understand.

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Response to James48 (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 08:52 AM

21. You'll never get a real answer.

All the gun manufacturers have to do is make a couple cosmetic changes and presto!

Instant non-assault rifle!

This was done during the Clinton assault rifle ban.

Besides, how would a law against "assault rifles" be enforced?

The ATF goes house-to-house ransacking the place looking for the "wrong gun?"

We need to increase the penalties for using assault rifles in crimes.
I say if an assault rifle is used in ANY crime, 20 years, no parole. Period.

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Response to James48 (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 09:58 AM

22. You're question wasn't intended to elicit an answer.

That's the whole point. You're concern-trolling.

What I dislike about military-style weaponry is its ability to give slack-muscled, soft-bellied losers the power to murder large numbers of people without breaking a sweat. And if you think the military styling isn't what attracts these hamhocks to these weapons, then ask yourself why they always dress up in military-style uniforms to carry out their murders.

If I had an inherent dislike of firearms, I wouldn't have joined the military at age 17, or qualified expert on the M-16 and the Beretta 9mm, or shot a superior score on Table VIII of the tank qualification course of the M1 Abrams.

Another hallmark of the gun-crazies is their delusion that gun-control advocates 'hate' firearms. They're trying to make our reasoned, logical approach to gun safety sound as delusional as their irrational, even creepy love of weapons of mass-murder.

I don't know why I bothered to type all that; it's not going to make a difference. It never does with you people...

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Response to Aristus (Reply #22)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:31 AM

25. +1. No more patience with gun extremism. Time to fight back.

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Response to Aristus (Reply #22)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:41 PM

36. "their delusion that gun-control advocates 'hate' firearms"

Last edited Thu Jan 16, 2020, 01:58 PM - Edit history (1)

If you really don't think many of them do you haven't been paying enough attention.

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Response to James48 (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:40 PM

35. Actually it looks like you can kill more people then with guns..

...if what happened in Nice France ever happens here I wonder what people will want to ban?

On the evening of 14 July 2016, a 19-tonne cargo truck was deliberately driven into crowds of people celebrating Bastille Day on the Promenade des Anglais in Nice, France, resulting in the deaths of 86 people and the injury of 458 others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_truck_attack

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #35)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 07:02 PM

43. 1 attack. 1 time. Do you think France has made any changes in response?

CUMULATIVELY, firearms kill more Americans than 19-tonne cargo trucks. 30K per year, 20K of them suicides, as you well know.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #43)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 08:57 PM

49. The point being if Americans switch to U-hauls instead of guns it won't be better. nt

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #43)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:01 AM

59. The unfortunate truth is that firearms don't make anybody kill anybody...

...and without the firearms the deranged just might switch to a more lethal method like arson or trucks, both which have the potential for bigger body counts and are even less able to be restricted then firearms. Concentrating on the WHY instead of the HOW I think would be a smarter outcome for stopping mass murder.
And of that 30k a year what number were killed with assault rifles exactly? 300 or so? And if that seems like a big number in a country of 300 million+ remember over 35,000 Americans die in unintentional falls every year and about 64,000 from unintentional poisoning. When I hear people here say they are afraid to go to a Walmart what they really should be afraid of is their car or their stairs/ladder or what's under their sink or in their medicine cabinet statiscally-wise.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #59)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 04:30 PM

66. You won't find me using the term "Assault Rifle".

I've been on DU too long. I say MSSA. The VA legislature should adopt that terminology too.

Basically, you're espousing the "Wound Collector" theory of Rampage Killings, which I've heard repeatedly from one particular Conservative Gunner on another forum, but I am willing to take that risk: Incels and other suicidal malcontents will NOT simply switch to another method, be it bombs, heavy trucks, or swimming pools. We already know that knife attacks are less lethal en masse.

I think this VA ban idea is a fool's errand: a binary solution won't work except to generate hysteria (OMG CONFISCATION!). I believe REGULATING access to firearms will limit impulsive mass homicides, whether MSSAs or SA Handguns or Muskets. I'm in favor of lengthy waiting periods: 6 months or a year for 1st time buyers.

My psychiatrist always said the opposite of you: concentrate on the HOW, not the WHY. HOW Adam Lanza got access to guns (his idiot Mother) is less important that WHY he wanted to murder children (infamy). Without those guns, yes, maybe he stabs some to death, but 26?

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #43)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 11:38 PM

111. Is it the firearm killing people?

Last I heard, there was a human on the other end. How do you legislate behavior? The suicides.... do you really think gun control will prevent 20k suicides?

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Response to fallout87 (Reply #111)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 11:53 AM

119. Whatever "gun control" is, if it prevents 1,000 out of that 20,000, it is worth it.

No solutions are 100% effective and perfect - there's that good old America binary thinking again.


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Response to James48 (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 02:58 PM

31. Here is a way I came up with back in 2012

"Any semi-automatic weapon that fires a rimless, semi-rimmed, or rebated rim centerfire cartridge that has a bullet of less then 6.5mm in diameter or a metal based case length of less then 50.8mm or caseless ammunition of any dimension or any rimless, semi-rimmedd or rebated Polymer-cased centerfire cartridge of any dimension.

The appearance of the gun has nothing to do with the above definition. The gun could look like a hunting rifle or it could look like something out of a Hollywood war movie. The gun could have a bayonet lug, grenade launcher, flash suppressor, pistol grip or folding stock and it might not be an assault weapon as defined by above. Or it could. It all depends on the action of the gun and the cartridge it fires.

Such a definition keeps things simple. All one has to do is first determine if the gun is a semi-automatic, see if the cartridge it is loaded with is a centerfire round and then measure the cartridge. No fuss. No muss.

If one has an issue with including semi-automatic handguns in the above, then one could refine it further by saying an assault weapon is a semi-automatic firearm that has a barrel length of 16" or longer and fires a rimless, semi-rimmed, or rebated rim centerfire cartridge that has a bullet of less then 6.5mm in diameter or a case length of less then 50.8mm.

A semi-automatic, or self-loading, firearm is a weapon that performs all steps necessary to prepare the weapon to fire again after firing—assuming cartridges remain in the weapon's feed device or magazine.

A centerfire cartridge is a cartridge with a primer located in the center of the cartridge case head.

"The rimmed cartridge is the oldest of the types and has a rim that is significantly larger in diameter than the base of the cartridge. "

"On a rimless case, the rim is the same diameter as the base of the case; it is known as an extractor groove."

"On a semi-rimmed case the rim projects slightly beyond the base of the case, though not as much as a rimmed cartridge."

"Rebated rim cartridges have a rim that is significantly smaller in diameter than the base of the case, serving only for extraction."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rim_%28firearms%29

Rimmed cartridges do not have an extractor groove.

According to the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI), a cartridge is "a single round of ammunition consisting of the case, primer and propellant with or without one or more projectiles." Only the projectile portion is the bullet.

The case length of a 7.62x39mm cartridge is about 38.7mm


Polymer-cased ammunition (or PCA) is the concept applied to define the alternative to use polymer-based casings instead of metal-based (brass, aluminium or steel mainly) in the manufacturing of ammunition.

Caseless ammunition is a type of small arms ammunition that eliminates the cartridge case that typically holds the primer, propellant, and projectile together as a unit."




https://www.democraticunderground.com/117297510

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #31)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 06:27 PM

68. Bravo.

It takes a thief to catch a thief, or a firearm minutiae expert to write firearm legislation, in this case...

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #68)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 07:50 PM

71. There isn't much minutiae about it.

The so-called assault weapons, for the most part, are semi-automatic guns that fire a cartridge that falls between certain specs.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #71)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 11:48 AM

117. then technical expertise.

which I do not wish to acquire.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #117)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 12:59 PM

120. I asked people in the Gungeon if manufacturers' could get around what I proposed

Nobody could come up with a way. Unlike the old AWB which manufacturers easily got around by simply changing the name and/or making some inconsequential cosmetic changes.

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Response to James48 (Reply #13)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 11:31 PM

109. Same here

AS much as many dont like to hear it, there are millions out there, they aren't going anywhere... and belting about confiscation does more to hurt our cause than help it.

but... emotions!

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 12:15 AM

14. Get real, Granny; thirty people are not going to break into your house.

You don't need military weaponry.

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Response to Aristus (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 08:46 AM

20. AR-15's aren't military weapons,

I never carried an AR-15 during my career in the Marines, no one I know of carried one of those in the military, they're semi auto as opposed to the M-16/M-4, which are select fire battle rifles.

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Response to dware (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:00 AM

23. If I put mag wheels on an M1 Abrams tank, is it suddenly no longer a military weapon?

One can change the style all one wants. It's a military weapon.

If you still don't think so, how about I send you into battle with your choice of weapon: a BB gun, or an AR-15 rifle? Go ahead: choose.

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Response to Aristus (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:32 AM

26. I'm not going to argue with you on this,

I just pointed out what is true, the AR-15 is not a military weapon.

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Response to dware (Reply #26)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:36 PM

91. Because, fashion

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Response to BuffaloJackalope (Reply #91)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:37 PM

93. ...

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Response to dware (Reply #93)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:38 PM

95. Yep, you've run out of script.

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Response to BuffaloJackalope (Reply #95)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:40 PM

98. See post #90. nt

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Response to Aristus (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:11 PM

58. Except that you are wrong according to the definition of the AWB

The Colt AR-15 and the Ruger Mini 14 function in the same manner, they are both semi automatic, they are both magazine fed, they fire at the same rate the only differences are the appearance, and the fact that the Mini 14 has never appeared on an AWB. The AWB should just be called the scary looking weapon ban, there is no military force in the world that would consider the AR-15 as an acceptable weapon, not even the USAF.

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Response to Aristus (Reply #23)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:08 PM

63. "...into battle with your choice of weapon: a BB gun, or an AR-15 rifle?"

I'd pick a single shot .22 over a BB gun also, that still does not make it military spec firearm.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 12:31 AM

16. Ok, assault rifles get banned.

How would this law be enforced?

The Feds go house to house ransacking houses and businesses looking for the "wrong guns?"

Buy backs will help, but not solve the problem.

We have to be REALISTIC, and bust felons and nutcases with assault rifles.

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Response to Archae (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:57 PM

39. My guess: MSSAs would not be allowed to be sold in VA.

No one's going to confiscate; that BS is already making the rounds in the Hair-on-Fire Community.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 12:44 AM

18. Leaders lead. Cowards cower nt

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:29 AM

24. My Right To Protect Myself Shall Not Be Infringed.

Therefore I will write to my VA senator and rep, and demand the assault weapons ban.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:32 PM

33. Perhaps more armament will protect you? Have you considered a flame thrower or grenade launcher?

Personally, I am comfortable with more traditional items and don't feel the need to escalate an arms race. Are your neighbors that dangerous?

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Reply #33)


Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:49 PM

37. Sorry. I mis-read your post. Gotta slow down.... My bad. BTW, I agree.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 07:02 PM

42. Handguns pose the far greater threat to you.

The odds of you being shot by someone armed with a so-called assault weapon or someone breaking into your home armed with such are pretty darn slim. Pretty much zilch.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #42)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:04 AM

61. I'd love to ban those too, but I'll take whatever I can get.

Also, the psychological impact of the AR terror weapons and the terror attacks they are designed and used for should not be underestimated. Very powerful political intimidation, disproportionate to the actual death toll.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:43 AM

29. Idiots. nt

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 09:37 PM

53. None of the ideas proposed in these laws, and none of the ideas on this board will pass muster.

The Supreme Court decided in Heller and affirmed in McDonald that a 'common usage' criteria would be used to judge any future gun control regulation. McDonald further incorporated the right to bear arms under the 14th amendment, meaning this applies to the states as well.

If any plaintiff can establish that whatever particular firearm is in 'common usage', then any ban or mandatory buyback will be invalidated. With millions of AR, AK, and other platforms out there, bans of semi-automatic rifles are going to face immediate legal trouble. This limiting criteria is not all bad for people in favor of gun control. The 'common usage' language is also a valid way for the government to prevent ownership of artillery, mortars, chemical weapons, nuclear weapons and so forth.

I realize many here are probably going to insult me ad nauseam for not seeing the issue your way, but the Supreme Court has set up real barriers to the kind of remedies proposed.

Those barriers cannot be overcome by passing a few laws which will be immediately be struck down. In addition, Heller has a daunting comment on registration and licensing for those who think registration will bring relief:

"Respondent conceded at oral argument that he does not 'have a problem with ... licensing' and that the District's law is permissible so long as it is 'not enforced in an arbitrary and capricious manner.' Tr. of Oral Arg. 74–75. We therefore assume that petitioners' issuance of a license will satisfy respondent’s prayer for relief and do not address the licensing requirement."

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 09:57 PM

56. The CDL (Citizens Defense League) is playing this up to the hilt

Numbers vary - I've heard/read anywhere from 50 to 100 - but a sizable number of the 133 localities in the Commonwealth have adopted these Sovereign resolutions. Virginia coiunties and cities are separate - 95 counties and 38 cities.

A friend happened to be at a county board meeting and these jackholes were there. The board gave the. 30 minutes and read paperwork and their phones the whole time.

They are playing this up for fundraising and make squeeze out the NRA just a little bit.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:34 PM

65. So much stupid here. There is no reason any private citizen needs an assault weapon.

Hunting rifles, shot guns, hand guns... OK I can see arguments, but not assault weapons.

You don't need an AR-15 to protect yourself when any other handgun will do. There's a reason why every cop in America goes around on patrol with a hand gun and not an assault rifle. Those things come out only in certain SWAT situations.

No assault weapon is necessary for hunting or self defense in wilderness from any predator, where, again, hand guns, shot guns, and hunting rifles will do the job in every case.

An AR-15 will not help you if the government "comes to get you" Anything the government brings to your door, your AR-15 or AK-47 will be grossly under powered.

Assault weapons are useful in war and that's it.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 04:34 PM

67. Virginia Declares State of Emergency After Armed Militias Threaten to Storm the Capitol

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/939b3y/virginia-declares-state-of-emergency-after-armed-militias-threaten-to-storm-the-capitol?utm_campaign=sharebutton

The governor said law enforcement had intercepted “extremist rhetoric” similar to the lead-up to Charlottesville days before pro-gun activists are holding a rally.

In response to what he described as “credible intelligence” of threats of violence at an upcoming gun rights rally in Richmond, Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam has declared a state of emergency and will temporarily ban individuals from carrying firearms on Capitol grounds.

The governor said at a press conference Wednesday that authorities believe “armed militia groups plan to storm the Capitol” during the January 20 rally.

He also said that law enforcement had intercepted threats and “extremist rhetoric” similar to what was observed prior to the violent Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville in August 2017. “We will not allow that mayhem and violence to happen here,” he said.

/snip

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 09:59 PM

78. Let's state it more accurately:

"My right to kill you shall not be infringed"

What I wish would happen to these people would get me kicked off this board, so I won't say it, but I'll just hint that I wish they'd learn the reality of unlimited guns.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #78)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:16 PM

83. Keep wishing and keep dreaming.

It’s very easy to pick up what you’re putting down. Just curious who’s going to be the one you expect to fulfill your unspeakable wishes?

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Response to Devil Child (Reply #83)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:20 PM

84. Oh I suspect it would be law enforcement kicking down doors

and ransacking residences looking for "assault weapons", or shooting those that refuse to kneel down to the PTB when it comes to firearms.

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Response to dware (Reply #84)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:30 PM

87. That's a RW fascist fantasy you're peddling there.

Gun worshipers would JUST LOVE to start shooting people in uniform.

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Response to BuffaloJackalope (Reply #87)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:34 PM

88. What ever you say must be true,

because you know, emotions vs facts.

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Response to dware (Reply #88)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:35 PM

89. You have no facts, tho

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Response to BuffaloJackalope (Reply #89)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:37 PM

92. Ok. what ever you say has to be true. nt

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Response to dware (Reply #92)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:39 PM

97. And you can't improvise.

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Response to BuffaloJackalope (Reply #97)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:41 PM

100. See post #90. nt

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Response to dware (Reply #84)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 09:36 AM

113. Nailed it dware n/t

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Response to Devil Child (Reply #83)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:27 PM

85. Actually, the presence of guns guns guns everywhere

could take care of it.

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