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Sat Feb 1, 2020, 05:52 PM

Notorious Utah brothel owner's interview eludes historians an hour ago

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Omaha Steve (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: AP

OGDEN, Utah (AP) — Scholars at a Utah university are trying to unlock a mystery after discovering a nearly 70-year-old transcript of an interview with a notorious brothel owner that is written in a shorthand style that few people can read today.

The interview was with madam Rossette Duccinni Davie, who ran the Rose Rooms brothel in Ogden with her husband in the 1940s and 1950s. Today, the location is home to the nightclub Alleged, the Standard-Examiner reported.

The interview with former Standard-Examiner reporter Bert Strand was hidden inside a box of 1970s photos from the newspaper, said Sarah Langsdon, head of the Weber State University’s special collections.

The pages could be a treasure trove of material for historians in Ogden, a city of about 88,000 located 40 miles (64 kilometers) north of Salt Lake City.

But there’s a problem: The 1951 transcription is written in a decades-old shorthand style that few people use today. “It’s definitely a lost art,” Langsdon said.

Read more: https://apnews.com/a47ab8e0cff5b1f0299b412ed99ee5c1

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Response to usaf-vet (Original post)

Sat Feb 1, 2020, 05:55 PM

1. Mom?

My mom was a secretary who took shorthand in those days.

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Response to usaf-vet (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 1, 2020, 06:01 PM

3. My mom taught shorthand in high school. Her after-school notes for me,

shopping lists, to-do lists, all drifted in and out of shorthand and cursive. Speaking of her cursive, her handwriting was used as an exemplar in penmanship textbooks in the '30's and 40's.

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Response to WheelWalker (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 1, 2020, 06:05 PM

4. I was taught (and still use) the Palmer Method for my cursive handwriting...

I was taught (and still use) the Palmer Method for my cursive handwriting, and my sons tell me that it looks like "an old lady's handwriting" or a teacher's handwriting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmer_Method

I think it's kind of amazing that "kids today" can't read cursive script at all. I could be writing in Chinese for all they know.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 1, 2020, 08:05 PM

11. That is still how I write my cursive.

My mother and father were both teachers.

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Response to usaf-vet (Original post)

Sat Feb 1, 2020, 05:56 PM

2. There must be a book from the shorthand class the person took. n/t

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 1, 2020, 06:21 PM

5. Yes, they are not hard to find

Especially with the *Interwebs*. While there aren't many people today sitting around ready to decipher the notes, it's not going to be that difficult to get it done. Not like the Davinci Code level difficulty anyway

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Response to usaf-vet (Original post)

Sat Feb 1, 2020, 06:37 PM

6. There has to be a book or an online translator somewhere.

They made me take shorthand in high school. I never used it at all afterward, so I don't remember any of it, but someone has to.

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Response to usaf-vet (Original post)

Sat Feb 1, 2020, 06:47 PM

7. Gregg Shorthand? My mom has passed, but she learned it and I'd think there are many around

still who did. It was extremely common to learn for business. As I understand it there are four or five versions, but someone versed in one should be able to follow another.

The original version was invented in the late 1800s. It was around a very long time.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 1, 2020, 07:49 PM

10. Yes, it's most likely Gregg shorthand.

The people who want to decipher these notes should contact McGraw-Hill, the publisher of Gregg Shorthand. I would imagine that they have a library of old books.

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Response to usaf-vet (Original post)

Sat Feb 1, 2020, 07:23 PM

8. I learned it in the early 1970's to make note-taking faster. As an engineering student

Last edited Sat Feb 1, 2020, 08:10 PM - Edit history (1)

My mom tried to teach me it in around 1970, but I wasn't interested then. But I decided to learn it, and took a course in it around 1975.

It definitely makes note-taking faster than cursive. (I can't even imagine what it would be like to keep up with a lecture while taking notes in print letters).

The problem was that most of the notes I made were ones that I wanted to read later a few times. But the mental translation effort took the focus off of understanding and thinking about the content. So I eventually quit doing that and forgot it.

I still have the Gregg Shorthand book. They are still being sold, Google [gregg shorthand]. and [shorthand courses]

It's pure asinine bullshit that one has to go through hell to find someone who can read shorthand. Unless this is some old variant, or if the person used their own personal shorthand and a lot of their own abbreviations (we all did to some extent ).



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Response to usaf-vet (Original post)

Sat Feb 1, 2020, 07:33 PM

9. my sister could probably translate it.

or could have once upon a time.
anyway, there are books. it's doable.

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Response to usaf-vet (Original post)

Sat Feb 1, 2020, 08:10 PM

12. Whoa, there are lots of different types of shorthand

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorthand#Notable_shorthand_systems
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shorthand_systems

Since it's local, they could probably find resources in an old library archive to translate it if they knew what type it was. If it's a rarer type, then they might have to ask around at other universities and see. Scanning it to upload online might get more scholars to look into it and find out.

And whoa, I didn't expect conservative Mormon Utah to have brothels.

Learning new stuff every day

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Response to usaf-vet (Original post)

Sat Feb 1, 2020, 08:24 PM

13. Calling all secretaries over 70! High schools and business schools kept teaching shorthand...

...until probably the mid-1970s. Surely there are a lot of women out there who remember their early education in business skills.

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Response to usaf-vet (Original post)

Sat Feb 1, 2020, 09:18 PM

14. These days, of course, they all head to Vegas

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Response to usaf-vet (Original post)

Sat Feb 1, 2020, 09:49 PM

15. After a review by forum hosts....LOCKING

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