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turbinetree

(24,632 posts)
Wed May 20, 2020, 11:03 AM May 2020

F-35 crashes at Eglin AFB, pilot successfully ejected and in stable condition. 2nd crash at base in

Source: Military Times

Howard Altman and Stephen Losey
5 hours ago

For the second time in four days a fifth-generation fighter jet has crashed at Eglin Air Force Base in Florida.

An F-35A Lightning II assigned to the 58th Fighter Squadron crashed upon landing around 9:30 p.m. Tuesday at Eglin, according to a media release. The pilot successfully ejected and was transported to the 96th Medical Group Hospital at Eglin for evaluation and monitoring.

The pilot was released from the hospital early Wednesday morning, said 1st Lt. Savannah Stephens, a spokeswoman for the 33rd Fighter Wing at Eglin.

At the time of the accident, the pilot was participating in a routine night training sortie, according to the release.

Read more: https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2020/05/20/f-35-crashes-at-eglin-afb-pilot-successfully-ejected-and-in-stable-condition-2nd-crash-at-base-in-four-days/

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F-35 crashes at Eglin AFB, pilot successfully ejected and in stable condition. 2nd crash at base in (Original Post) turbinetree May 2020 OP
Results of military morale at an all time low? Tiger8 May 2020 #1
And if I was on the front line helping the country out with the COV19 virus and then having 89 days turbinetree May 2020 #2
I think Trump wants to break the morale of our military - and nation! Tiger8 May 2020 #6
Well this should be a wake call for everyone.............. turbinetree May 2020 #7
And think of all the years some have put in on a part time basis. Delmette2.0 May 2020 #8
The F-35 is a turkey jberryhill May 2020 #3
$94 million (F-35A) and $122 million (F-35B) Submariner May 2020 #9
They're very much against welfare, with the exception of billions in unnecessary military spending greenjar_01 May 2020 #10
Do you have any direct experience with that? Happy Hoosier May 2020 #11
Would you rather an F-35 or F-22? /nt spudspud May 2020 #12
Depends on the application.... Happy Hoosier May 2020 #16
Exactly, there is a reason their are over 500 foreign orders for the F-35... EX500rider May 2020 #13
That article is from 2013. Here's one from 2017 and 2020. spudspud May 2020 #15
Like a lot of the business press.... Happy Hoosier May 2020 #17
That's pretty sweet. spudspud May 2020 #18
More recent article from actual users: EX500rider May 2020 #19
This is my son's military base, we live about 10 minutes away. dewsgirl May 2020 #4
👋 Hey neighbor! mentalsolstice May 2020 #21
After all the initial design, development costs, trials, redesigns and more trials, yonder May 2020 #5
"The F-35A variant cost about $90 million." IronLionZion May 2020 #14
I wonder if this F-35 crash is related to the oxygen system used by the F-22 SkatmanRoth May 2020 #20
 

Tiger8

(432 posts)
1. Results of military morale at an all time low?
Wed May 20, 2020, 11:08 AM
May 2020

I'd be very depressed knowing a Psychopathic Dictator was my CIC.

Every day, I would be faed with the possibility of risking my life based on some decision borne of incompetence, vanity, or criminality. Sad times, indeed.

turbinetree

(24,632 posts)
2. And if I was on the front line helping the country out with the COV19 virus and then having 89 days
Wed May 20, 2020, 11:15 AM
May 2020

in and need the 90 day threshold to get my retirement and benefits and some asshole sitting in this corrupt administration counting fucking beans and coming up with this BS, that this coming June 24 and not June 25 would be the last day for deployment and then to top it all off that I would have to be in quarantine two weeks prior to going home knowing that I just got fucked out of my retirement and benefits ..................that would piss me off to no end, because this is what this crimnal enterprise has done to all of those National Guard Troops...................if any of them vote for this asshole............I have no fucking pity..............


 

Tiger8

(432 posts)
6. I think Trump wants to break the morale of our military - and nation!
Wed May 20, 2020, 11:46 AM
May 2020

Trump has declared psychological warfare on America.

Who else has noticed how NOBODY is happy?

EVERYBODY is either sick, fighting, angry, dead, scared, depressed, shut down, damaged or hopeless. Yes, maybe for different reasons, but still, there are NO WINNERS UNDER TRUMP. And worse, friends, neighbors and relatives are dead or sick, businesses and jobs lost, savings depleted, our way of life has been decimated.

How anybody can say, "Yes, we want more! Let's give Trump 4 more years to finish the jobf" << that is a sure sign of a cult member.

Delmette2.0

(4,143 posts)
8. And think of all the years some have put in on a part time basis.
Wed May 20, 2020, 11:53 AM
May 2020

Our National Guard Units give one weekend a month and two full weeks a year. I'm guessing they get minimal pay for that time. Then they are on call for floods, wildfires, hurricanes and tornadoes.

Fuck Trump.

Submariner

(12,485 posts)
9. $94 million (F-35A) and $122 million (F-35B)
Wed May 20, 2020, 11:58 AM
May 2020

if we don't waste it on this multi-red-state infinite jobs program we'd probably just blow it on groceries for people who need food

 

greenjar_01

(6,477 posts)
10. They're very much against welfare, with the exception of billions in unnecessary military spending
Wed May 20, 2020, 12:01 PM
May 2020


It's what the market demands!



How these fucking bozos have convinced people that they are AGAINST a control economy is a goddamn mystery.

Happy Hoosier

(7,080 posts)
11. Do you have any direct experience with that?
Wed May 20, 2020, 12:13 PM
May 2020

'Cause I do, and I can tell you that while it's not a knife-fighter, there is a LOT it can do well.

Happy Hoosier

(7,080 posts)
16. Depends on the application....
Wed May 20, 2020, 03:37 PM
May 2020

The F-22 is JUST NOW getting decent HMD, and not all jets even have them yet.

BUT.... if the mission is long range intercept, the F-22 is the platform of choice. It's got a great radar and it can super-cruise.

for the strike-fighter role the F-35 is king. It's got an even better radar, and it has the best integrated sensor suite flying. And it is more strealthy than the Raptor. 9/10 time or more, an enemy threat will be destroyed before it can even get a reliable track on the F-35.

EX500rider

(10,531 posts)
13. Exactly, there is a reason their are over 500 foreign orders for the F-35...
Wed May 20, 2020, 02:16 PM
May 2020

...and it's not because they think it is a piece of crap.

Israel has had some in service for over a year and has not canceled future orders, other countries with F-35's on order:
S Korea, Japan, Australia, United Kingdom, Italy, Netherlands, Canada, Denmark, Norway, Singapore, Belgium and Poland.

As to F-35 Vs F-22:


"American fighter pilots (air force, navy, and marine) are largely in agreement that, while the F-22 is a superior air-to-air fighter, the new F-35 is a better, if still flawed, all-round combat aircraft. A lot of this has to do with technology. The F-35 is a more recent aircraft, entering service a dozen years later than the F-22. Fighter pilots, who tend to be keen connoisseurs of aviation technology (many being university trained in aviation tech) note that the F-35 is actually using a new generation of tech, as much of the F-22 stuff dates back to the 1980s and 1990s. This accounts for some of the tech updates the F-22 has received since it entered service in 2005. But the basic design and composition of the F-35 is a generation ahead of the F-22. As a result, the F-35 is cheaper, more effective (in terms of tech), easier to maintain, and designed as a fighter-bomber.

This last item is important for combat pilots, because they note there has been little air-to-air combat in the last few decades but smart bombs (especially the GPS variety) have become cheaper, more effective, and reliable and that has meant more calls for air support from ground troops. The F-22 is strictly air-to-air, and despite heavily publicized efforts to give F-22s ground attack capability, the F-22 has not yet experienced combat. The smart bomb revolution also means that far fewer aircraft are needed and the air force can’t justify sending in the F-22 when there are so many available aircraft that can do the job a lot cheaper. So fighter pilots looking forward to a hot new ride tend to favor the F-35 rather than the F-22."

https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairfo/20130710.aspx

spudspud

(508 posts)
15. That article is from 2013. Here's one from 2017 and 2020.
Wed May 20, 2020, 03:29 PM
May 2020

"The F-35 Is a $1.4 Trillion National Disaster: The JSF is a terrible fighter, bomber and attacker — and unfit for aircraft carriers
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-f-35-is-a-terrible-fighter-bomber-and-attacker-and-unfit-for-aircraft-carriers-c6e36763574b

"Five F-35 issues have been downgraded, but they remain unsolved"
https://www.defensenews.com/smr/hidden-troubles-f35/2020/04/24/five-f-35-issues-have-been-downgraded-but-they-remain-unsolved/

And our foreign partners were chomping at the bit to get a hold of the F22 which is the premiere air superiority fighter, but by law we can't export them (for now anyway, one day maybe). We've only got a relative "handful" of them unfortunately. Less than 200. And as the main post noted, we lost one at the same base 4 days earlier.

Happy Hoosier

(7,080 posts)
17. Like a lot of the business press....
Wed May 20, 2020, 03:43 PM
May 2020

... these kinds of stories tend to highlight problems without highlighting benefits. Lots of folks forget teh teething pains of the F/A-18. Even the F-16 took some heat early in it's life.

The F-22 is a great air superiority fighter. But you'd be surprised to find out that it's sensor suite and cockpit systems are actually LESS advanced than a late-block F-16. It didn't even have an HMD until last year, and many deployed jets still don't have it. It could not carry the AIM-9X operationally until 2017!

So, yeah, the F-35 has issues. But I have personally seen a flight of 4 F-35's target and engage and "destroy" a flight of 8 late block F-16's in an exercise before the Vipers even got a solid lock on a single one of them. That's fierce. The Viper pilots were all laughing in the debrief, and saying stuff like "unfair" and "it's like magic."

spudspud

(508 posts)
18. That's pretty sweet.
Wed May 20, 2020, 03:50 PM
May 2020

Have they had any exercises against F-15C's or E's? Be interesting to see if they could best that stalwart air superiority fighter or the multi-role strike version. Are you a pilot or tech at an airbase?

EX500rider

(10,531 posts)
19. More recent article from actual users:
Wed May 20, 2020, 03:56 PM
May 2020

"July 24, 2018:
Initial reactions of F-35 pilots and air force commanders has been positive, especially now that some F-35s have been in combat (over Syria) and gone up against world class (Russian) radar and electronic warfare equipment. What the pilots who have flown the F-35 agree on is that the software and the degree of automation built in is spectacular. The F-35 has a large number of sensors (receivers for electronic signals, six cameras and a very capable radar) and the fusion of all that sensor data and presentation to the pilot based on the current situation is impressive and makes the F-35 much easier to fly, despite all the additional capabilities it has. This was not some miraculous breakthrough but the culmination of decades of adding most of this computer, communications and sensor tech to warplanes.

One of the most useful functions the F-35 has is its ability to collect data on who is within weapons range passively (without emitting any electronic signals, as with radar) and use a “threat library” to quickly (in real time) compare what visual and electronic data its sensors are receiving and compare it to data in the threat library and present the pilot with the most likely match. This is not a new technique and was pioneered by the U.S. Navy for their nuclear submarines, which also sought to remain invisible (stealthy) to the enemy by using passive acoustic sensors and a library of water conditions (which impact how sound travels underwater) and local geography (how far down the seabed is) to compare what the sub is hearing to a “threat library”. The navy spent a lot of time and effort collecting sounds (whales, schools of fish, surface vessels and enemy and friendly submarines). The very sensitive passive (just listen, not transmit) sonar systems, and increasingly powerful computers on the subs enabled them to track ships long distances, in any weather and without letting the subject know it was being tracked. This was because American subs have long had passive sonar system and computers that used libraries of unique sounds made by individual ships. During the Cold War, the library was full of sound signatures for Russian warships and since the Cold War ended it has been updated to contain a lot more Chinese, North Korean and Iranian subs and ships. From the 1980s on, as computers and hard drives became smaller and more capable, these threat libraries became a key technique in submarine warfare. Naval aviators and the U.S. Air Force noted this capability and saw its eventual use in aerial warfare.

By the 1990s it was recognized that another new technology; data fusion, would be a key capability for combat aircraft (as well as ships and ground forces). Put simply, it's all about taking real-time vidcam, radar and other sensor data (sensor fusion) and other information about the battlefield situation (all sorts of databases and reports), and combining it to provide commanders with a better understanding of current operations, preferably in real time if you are a fighter pilot. The F-35 is apparently the best working example of this so far and what is learned from the F-35 software will be the basis for updated software for older aircraft.
But beyond the data fusion (and automatic sharing with other aircraft or systems on the surface) the pilots were impressed about how effective the “pilot assistant” software was. This is another concept that has been around for decades and more frequently installed in new aircraft. These minor advances get reported but never make headlines. But given the F-35s stealth, maneuverability and sensor/data fusion, most pilots quickly become enthusiastic proponents of the aircraft."

https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htecm/articles/20180724.aspx

mentalsolstice

(4,454 posts)
21. 👋 Hey neighbor!
Wed May 20, 2020, 10:27 PM
May 2020

My paternal uncle and his wife live in Niceville. He’s a retired USAF Lt. Col. I was born and raised in Ft. Lauderdale, and lived in Pensacola for a number of years. After a 30 year stint in B’ham, we moved back to the coast in SRB, have been here for a year now. After living in B’ham, we’re surprised about how ugly the political scene is here. And that’s saying a lot!

yonder

(9,631 posts)
5. After all the initial design, development costs, trials, redesigns and more trials,
Wed May 20, 2020, 11:43 AM
May 2020

I wonder what the final unit cost of this likely too-complex-to-be-reliable aircraft is? How many other pressing needs could have been addressed with the funding earmarked for that dubious project?

SkatmanRoth

(843 posts)
20. I wonder if this F-35 crash is related to the oxygen system used by the F-22
Wed May 20, 2020, 05:22 PM
May 2020

An F-22 crashed at Tyndall AFB in Florida back in 2012 because the pilot's oxygen system could not deliver enough air for the pilot to fly the plane. It would not surprise me bit that Lockheed Martin installed the same sub-standard components in the F-35.

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