Voters struggling with witness rules in early voting

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

GARY D. ROBERTSON and SCOTT BAUER
, Associated Press
Sep. 25, 2020
Updated: Sep. 25, 2020 5:59 p.m.

RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) — As the pandemic prompts a surge in voting by mail, voters in a handful of states, including the presidential battlegrounds of North Carolina and Wisconsin, are facing a requirement that already is tripping up thousands — the need to have a witness sign their ballot envelope.

A lack of a witness signature or other witness information has emerged as the leading cause of ballots being set aside before being counted in North Carolina, with problems disproportionately affecting Black voters in the state, according to an Associated Press analysis of state election data.

While there is a process for fixing the omissions, voting rights advocates say the numbers are an early warning sign that the extra step is becoming a barrier that could disenfranchise voters — and a potential source of legal battles in a tight race.

“People are confused by this whole witness requirement,” said Barbara Beckert, an advocate for Disability Rights Wisconsin, which was part of a lawsuit that unsuccessfully challenged the witness mandate. “Voting absentee is complicated. To get it right, you have to follow a lot of very specific rules.”

Read more: https://www.chron.com/news/article/Witness-mandate-vex-some-new-mail-in-voters-in-15596679.php

---

[iluvtennis]

1. Voter suppression by the re-thugs. Judge overturned the witness signature requirement in South

Carolina, maybe the same thing can be done in North Carolina.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

2. I am so grateful that I live in

New Mexico, a state that makes early and by-mail voting very easy.

But then, it's a very Democratic state. Hmmm. Do you think there's a connection?

[Mz Pip]

4. Easy here in CA, too

Been voting absentee for years. Easy to track the ballots, too.

[LisaL]

6. Thankfully OH doesn't require a witness either.

NT

[madaboutharry]

3. That requirement was intended to create a problem.

Nothing is by accident. I have little doubt that the purpose of a witness signature was to disenfranchise certain voters. We still are living with remnants of Jim Crow. Don’t think we’re not.

[frazzled]

5. two things to know

If you requested a mail ballot in NC, you can change and vote in person. Early voting begins Thursday October 15 and ends Saturday October 30.

Question: Does it violate the law if I request an absentee ballot, then change my mind about using it and go vote in person?
Answer: No. Requesting an absentee ballot will not record you in our system as having voted. As long as you do not vote your absentee ballot, you may vote in person during the early voting period or on Election Day.

https://www.ncsbe.gov/voting/vote-mail

In WI, if you can’t figure out the witness thing (it can be anyone over 18) or otherwise make a mistake on your mail ballot, you can still vote in person on Election Day. It doesn’t say whether that vote would be regular or provisional.

Correcting Ballot Mistakes

• If you make a mistake while marking your ballot or otherwise require a replacement ballot, contact your municipal clerk. Your municipal clerk’s contact information is listed below.
• If there is not enough time to request a replacement ballot and you have not returned your ballot, you may still vote in-person at the polls on Election Day.
• Different types of voters have different deadlines for requesting a replacement ballot. Please see below for additional details.

https://elections.wi.gov/sites/elections.wi.gov/files/2020-09/Uniform%20Absentee%20Instructions%20-%20Current%20-%20By-Mail%20Voters.pdf

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

7. That's nice for NC, and I'm glad.

In a lot of states, if you've requested an absentee ballot and then want to vote in person, you get a provisional ballot, which may or may not be counted.

Because we have such excellent early voting here in New Mexico, I've decided that's how I'll vote. On our first day of early voting, which is October 17 [which is my brother's birthday so I do need to remember to call him and wish him Happy Birthday] I plan to go to my nearest early voting location, and if I decide the line is longer than I want to stand in, I'll go to the next nearest location. If I don't like that line, I'll simply return each day until I'm willing to tolerate the line.

Luckily, I have no health problems, and I always have a book or two in my purse, so I can actually put up with lots of waiting.

I am very glad I live in a state where I have a lot of confidence in our voting system.

[LisaL]

10. I thought that was the rule for OH.

Turns out, it only true for voting on election day-they will only allow you to vote provisional if you requested absentee and change your mind.
But not true for early voting. You can still early vote in person if you requested absentee-apparently you have to bring your ballot in, they will cancel it and let you vote on a regular ballot. OH doesn't advertise that one.

[pazzyanne]

8. In Minnesota we have the witness requirement, but...

that requirement has been waived for this year due to the pandemic. Our rural precinct has gone to vote by ballot as we would have to drive 50 miles round trip to vote at the county courthouse. It worked well in 2018 and hoping it works as well this year.

[BumRushDaShow]

9. This in WI/NC, as well as making sure to fill out and sign the OUTER envelope for PA mail-in ballots

is more an issue, IMHO, than the whole "naked ballots" hysteria. Here in PA, if the outer envelope is not signed/completed, then they won't even bother opening the damn envelope to see if there is a "naked ballot" inside because the voter "declaration" did not occur.

[DeminPennswoods]

11. The new back of the ballot return envelop is MUCH cleaner than

it was. Even as late as the June primary, this info was displayed horizontally instead of vertically as above making reading and filling out the declaration harder because all the same info was crammed into a smaller space.

It should be noted in PA, that a voter does not need a witness signature unless they themselves are unable to sign a normal signature. Had to do this for my mom who couldn't see well enough to sign.

[BumRushDaShow]

12. Agree and had actually taken pics of my primary ballot package in May and dug the envelope pic out

You can't really "miss" all this stuff on the back of the outer envelope but the hope is that before mailing the ballot, people don't just blow it off and ignore it because "naked ballots" would be irrelevant if this isn't completed.

[DeminPennswoods]

19. That's different from the return envelopes my county

sent out. The print was smaller and there was hardly enough room for me, as the witness, to write my address. It makes me wonder if each county does the declaration on the back of the envelope differently.

The format I always saw was the first declaration statement and fill-in blanks was displayed horizontally, the the second witness declaration with instructions was immediately below that with the fill-in blanks.

It looked something like this horizontally on the back of the return envelope,

texxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxt

signature and fill-in spaces with lines, not boxes

sign __________________, date ______________. etc

Witness texxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxt

voter mark________________________
witness name _____________________________, address_____________________________
date_____________________________________________

[BumRushDaShow]

20. Since that outer envelope gets sent to a county's Board of Elections

I expect all of them are going to be somewhat different across the 67 counties - a "variation of a theme", where the "voter declaration" section and the "witness info for those unable to sign" section, are the minimum requirements to be there.

If you search around the 'net, you'll see that it appears many of the states that use vote-by-mail have decided not to reinvent the wheel and are using very similar formats for their envelopes and even the ballots (templates)!

[DeminPennswoods]

21. I'm sure that's true

I wish, even your old format, was used on our return envelopes. It's just so much cleaner.

[CreekDog]

26. In PA then, the witness is only needed if the voter required assistance in filling out the ballot

if the voter required no assistance, they can fill everything out themselves, no witness necessary.

[BumRushDaShow]

28. Correct!

[JudyM]

13. South Carolina's witness requirement was struck down yesterday, at least.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214136035

That court has jurisdiction over North Carolina, as well.

[Rebl2]

14. In Missouri

I believe if you have a mail in ballot or absentee ballot it must be notarized. The absentee ballot does have an exception to it. If you are 65 or older or if your immune system is compromised, then no notarization is required-this year only.

[OnlinePoker]

16. So you have to pay (a notary) for the privilege of voting? n/t

[Igel]

23. Notaries public are all over.

Banks have them.

Many schools have them. Where I work every principal's secretary is a notary.

A lot of churches or other non-profits have them.

Hardly anybody advertises it.

Heck, when I was in Oregon I was one. Worked for a church. Never once notarized anything official for the organization. But once or twice a month I'd notarize something for some member (which could include the ministers, etc., doing personal transactions).

Of course, this may vary by state. When I was a notary in Oregon, the state government had changed hands and the rules for becoming a notary were becoming stricter, both in terms of record keeping as well in terms of how easy it was to become a notary. That was a long time ago, by the way.

[CreekDog]

27. it's a horrible requirement though

we're already talking about people that may be voting absentee because of long term problems such as disabilities, serious illness or other reasons that limit their ability to leave their home.

so having to set an appointment with a notary, who isn't free except under limited circumstances, like your bank has one (for customers with over $3000 in deposits, hmm, helpful :sarcasm

[Rebl2]

31. I agree

For this election though they have allowed people 65 and over, people with immune system problems, heart and asthma problems will not have to get their ballots notarized.

[Rebl2]

30. I think the

state has listed notaries that will notarize for free. Also if you have an account at a bank, most will notarize for free.

[FakeNoose]

22. Many banks have notaries on staff

It's possible that your regular checking/savings bank might perform this notary service for you, assuming they have somebody on staff. It wouldn't hurt to make a phone call.

If your local bank doesn't, there might be someone among your acquaintances who has a notary license. For example, insurance brokers, real estate agencies, car dealerships, and other types of businesses might have someone on staff. Are you a member of Triple-A? They might have a staff notary or know someone locally. It doesn't hurt to ask around, especially now.

You might have to pay a fee, but a friend could maybe notarize as a favor.

[mnhtnbb]

15. The witness requirement in NC is BS. Just a hoop to make people who live alone jump through

in order to send in their ballot.

I'm pissed. Had planned to vote early. However, the downtown Raleigh location that is a 5 minute walk from my apartment has been eliminated as an early voting location for Wake County. I always voted early there since I've lived here. Never a line.

When I discovered this last week I requested an absentee ballot. But the witness thing is just stupid. I live alone. So I have to go knock on a neighbor's door and ask them to witness it. Put myself right up next to somebody who may not even put on a mask. Or take it downstairs and ask people in the leasing office to witness it. AND you are supposed to fill out the damn ballot IN THEIR PRESENCE.

It's all a bunch of Republican BS designed to exclude voters by somehow insinuating they can't be trusted.

[OnlinePoker]

17. Are the people with these "set aside" ballots being contacted to resubmit?

Or be given the opportunity to vote in person? You can't blame the election officials who are following the laws as written, but you can sure fault the people who passed the laws in the first place.

[LisaL]

18. This depends on the state.

In North Carolina voters are given an option to fix whatever it is they did wrong.

[milestogo]

24. In WI your witness needs to see you fill out the ballot, sign the envelope, and add their address.

If your witness doesn't enter their address, the ballot won't be counted. Its absurd.

Edit: The clerk will send it back to the voter to fix, but that takes time.

[SoFlaJet]

25. Bullshit

I voted early here in NC and I didn't see or hear of one single problem with people not being able to follow the instructions. It's very easy to have someone witness and sign off that they WERE a witness to you voting. No, we aren't idiots. We know how to vote. At least on the Democratic side of the aisle. Notice I didn't say Democrat side?

[pat_k]

34. 4.7% of ballots rejected is pretty damn high

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/north-carolina-is-already-rejecting-black-voters-mail-in-ballots-more-often-than-white-voters/

It’s already happening. In North Carolina, absentee ballots have already been sent back and the state has been updating statistics on those ballots daily. As of September 17, Black voters’ ballots are being rejected at more than four times the rate of white voters, according to the state’s numbers.1 Black voters have mailed in 13,747 ballots, with 642 rejected, or 4.7 percent. White voters have cast 60,954 mail-in ballots, with 681 — or 1.1 percent — rejected. In addition, 434 ballots cast by white voters and 127 ballots cast by Black voters were marked “spoiled,” which can mean literally spoiled or something as simple as a voter informing the election office that the address they had requested a ballot to is wrong. (These are a tiny portion of the votes from one state, so obviously we have a long way to go before we know the full landscape of ballot rejection rates.)

[brooklynite]

29. NCDP will be looking for volunteers to contact voters in order to correct Absentee Ballots

[pat_k]

33. Great!

[pat_k]

32. Public education campaign an absolute MUST

Every candidate should be emphasizing how critical it is to carefully read all instructions and triple check to make sure your ballot is 100% error free and correctly packaged with any certifications in correct envelop + any required secrecy sleeve. This message should be part of EVERY GOTV effort/message/speech.

It's late in the game, but it would be great if jurisdictions could set up voter assistance lines and encourage voters to contact the line if anything about the ballot seems confusing. Or to publicize any such lines that already exist.