French police make arrests after teacher beheaded in Paris suburb

[oldsoftie]

Source: Reuters

CONFLANS-SAINTE-HONORINE, France (Reuters) - French police were questioning nine people in custody on Saturday after a suspected Islamist sympathiser beheaded a school teacher in broad daylight on the street in a Paris suburb, police sources said.
Police shot the attacker dead minutes after he murdered 47-year-old history teacher Samuel Paty on Friday. The killing shocked the country and carried echoes of an attack five years ago on the offices of satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo.

Investigators were seeking to establish whether the attacker had acted alone or had accomplices. French media reported that he was an 18-year-old of Chechen origin.

Paty had earlier this month shown his pupils cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad in a civics class on freedom of expression, angering a number of Muslim parents. Muslims believe that any depiction of the Prophet is blasphemous.

Read more: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-france-security-idUKKBN2720BG

[NurseJackie]

1. I'm sure Bill Maher will have some insightful comments about this.

[oldsoftie]

2. I think they should plaster the city with depictions of Mohammed.

Just a face, nothing else. No caricatures or anything like that.
They cannot be allowed to get away with fomenting constant fear

[cwydro]

3. I wish the attacker wasn't killed.

I would have liked to hear how he thought this would advance his cause.

[onetexan]

8. Kid's 18 years old. Most likely would neither have the depth nor intellect to think of advancing his

cause. All they need to do is search his home w/ a warrant, do a forensic analysis of his computers, find out who his parents, family members, friends and contacts are, where and with whom he goes to, interview those people and they will find out how he was radicalized or was raised.

[samsingh]

11. i wish the teacher wasn't killed

[cwydro]

21. Yes, I wish that even more.

I just think the attacker got the easy way out.

[ChazII]

70. I agree 100%

with your statement.

[Codeine]

52. Religion rarely involves much thought.

Fundamentalist religion even less so.

[Dopers_Greed]

4. Right-wing religious violence from a country with a "strongman" leader

Last edited Sat Oct 17, 2020, 02:08 PM - Edit history (1)

Who would have thunk it.

*Edit* I'm talking about where the perpetrator is from (Chechnya).

[samsingh]

12. what does this have to do with the leader ?

[jmowreader]

14. I think he's referring to Trump here

[samsingh]

15. i hate trump obviously but what does he have to do with this beheading?

[jmowreader]

16. Nothing...

...but we have right-wing-terrorist and strongman-leader problems of our own.

[cwydro]

22. I think you're missing the point the poster was making.

[oldsoftie]

63. I think most of us missed it. Maybe he can explain it.

[Dopers_Greed]

45. The perpetrator was from Chechnya

That's what I was talking about

[reACTIONary]

48. I think he might be referring to Chechnya ..

.. the terrorist was a Chechen refuge.

[oldsoftie]

18. France doesnt have whats considered a "strongman" leader.

Not sure where youre coming from.

[Polybius]

36. Macron is not a "strongman"

He is a popular elected leader in France.

[Blues Heron]

5. They need to add a commandment

"whatever happens - don't slaughter your neighbor"

Seems like there's some major confusion on this planet about this topic.

[mdbl]

49. no shit!

[mdbl]

51. no shit!

Also cancel the beheading class they must give their children as part of their religious instruction. Idiots

[Chemisse]

6. This is really awful, but seriously, what was he thinking?

Why would he do something that was so offensive to Muslims when he had a large portion of students who were Muslim? It is really wrong for a teacher to do what amounts to mocking his students' religious beliefs. It's no secret how strongly they feel about this.

Killing him for this is horrific and brutal. He should have been fired from his job though.

[Blues Heron]

7. It's France - a secular state

You can't cater to every last random whim of the religious people. They need to learn how to conduct themselves in civil society i.e. don't start slaughterin' in His name.

[Chemisse]

9. Agree they need to stop killing people for this. It's insane!

But as a high school teacher who works in a receiver town for refugees - many of whom are Muslim - I find it appalling that a teacher could stand in front of them and commit what they see as blasphemy.

It's just common decency to respect the feelings of others.

[cwydro]

23. They were advised they could choose to leave.

Would you say the same about anyone mocking Christianity?

I see it mocked all the time here, and I don’t recall anyone defending that faith.

I’m not in the least religious btw.

[Chemisse]

28. Anybody should be able to say anything - I believe in freedom of speech - but not in a classroom.

Nobody's religion, customs, language, etc. should be mocked by a teacher in class. School is supposed to be a safe place for kids.

But the penalty for that should be warnings from school administration or job loss. There is no excuse for the brutal killing of someone who mocks your religion. None at all.

[GoneOffShore]

38. Lacite - Secularism - is the official policy of the French state.

Last edited Sun Oct 18, 2020, 02:22 AM - Edit history (1)

And the teacher was talking about freedom of expression.

Not sure how you get that that the teacher was 'mocking' Islam.

[cwydro]

54. Thank you.

[Jose Garcia]

26. How many American teachers were beheaded recently for teaching evolution or the Big Bang theory?

[MicaelS]

65. There is a limit on everything.

Do we have to respect the feelings of Republicans who are trying to destroy this country?

Islam does not have, nor should deserve ANY special protection when it conflicts with Western Liberal values. I am sick and tired of those who cater to, and excuse religious fanatics. No matter the religion.

[mdbl]

50. exactly. Either the learn to live with others freedoms or leave and find an island somewhere.

I guess the weirdo radical muslims that perpetrate these crimes want me to hate them and their religion. mission accomplished.

[oldsoftie]

64. Most do not want to assimilate. Which results in massive troubles.

Especially with the social systems.

[Devil Child]

10. No, Islamic Fragility is the problem here, not the teacher.

[Sherman A1]

29. Precisely

[samsingh]

13. someone should be terrified of free speech to the point of death?

[Codeine]

17. Worst hot take ever.

Who cares who it offends? That’s how France works.

[EllieBC]

20. Wow. Should women stop dressing as they please two? Should they

stop fighting for equal rights? Don’t want to offend the fragile men.

How about in Muslim countries? Should the women just take abuse so as not to upset their religion?

Seriously that was the worst take ever.

[Dial H For Hero]

24. So your takeaway is that teachers who offend fundamentalists should be fired? Really?

[Chemisse]

33. Actually yes. I can't talk about what a POS Trump is in my classroom, so basically the same thing.

You keep your personal feelings and biases to yourself. I was pretty angry the year my son came home spouting Republican talking points, thanks to one of his teachers.

[Dial H For Hero]

35. So teaching separatiion of church and state in a civics class should get a teacher fired?

[Withywindle]

61. So you think teachers should pander to students who have sexist or homophobic beliefs?

Because of their religion?

I don't. Students go to school for an education, and an important part of education is encountering ideas they don't agree with, and learning to deal with them in a civil manner. And learning that the religious worldview they were raised in, if they're fundamentalists, its FAR from the real center of the universe, and there are many ways to see the world that are different.

I don't assume this teacher was mocking his students. I don't know. He might have been. Or he might have been legitimately trying to educate about recent history like the Charlie Hebdo massacre, and talk about cultural differences in how depictions of religious figures are seen, and how what is shocking and taboo to one group might be unremarkable to another. It's an important conversation to have, if so.

[Jose Garcia]

25. This is veering awfully close to blaming rape victims because of the way they were dressed

[Chemisse]

32. I see your point. I just have strong beliefs that teachers should respect student feelings.

What this teacher does outside of class is his business. He should be able to walk the streets with the image of Mohammed if he wishes without any repercussions at all.

[GoneOffShore]

40. Where do you teach? I'm guessing not in France.

[EX500rider]

56. And if the student believes in flat earth or 6,000 year old earth u skip science? nt

[Codeine]

58. "Mr. Garvey said finches evolved different beaks

depending on their local food sources, so I disemboweled him.”

[Withywindle]

60. What if the student believes that women shouldn't be teaching and shouldn't show their faces?

What if they believe they should be able to say that their LGBT classmates are going to hell and should be killed?

What if they actually sincerely hold the opinion that it's okay to kill anyone over a drawing?

Some feelings should be respected. Others have no place in a civil pluralistic society.

[rockfordfile]

31. If they're that extreme, then France should think about kicking them the hell out.

[Codeine]

57. At some point Islam needs to figure some shit out.

They’re certainly not historically unique so far as religious violence goes, but the rest of the world has largely moved beyond that. Time to catch up.

[Polybius]

37. He just talked about the cartoon controversy

Remember when it was in the news about 10 years ago? That's what he brought up. He didn't make fun of anyone, he was just teaching a history lesson.

[robbob]

42. Actually the Charlie Hebdo terrorist attack was just 5 years ago

And apparently sparked by the magazine publishing a cartoon depiction of Mohammed on its cover. It’s hard to imagine teaching the history of this incident without talking about, or showing, the (very inoffensive) cover cartoon that incited those maniacs.

If anything good comes out of this I would hope the students of this teacher can understand just how evil religious extremism can be, and turn away from it. One very radicalized 18 year old obviously could not. 🙁

[GulfCoast66]

43. I'm calling respectful bullshit here!

He was teaching a class on Freedom of expression. France is a totally secular state.

We should never give in to self censorship, even in the face of violence.

Knowing the French it is just a matter of time until those images are widely posted. Send the message of you can’t take a cartoon GTF out of the country.

All religions are regularly made fun of in France. Islam gets no pass.

[Codeine]

53. Fired from his job?

France is an aggressively secular state, and the teacher was specifically teaching a course on the freedom of expression. He showed the cartoon as it related to the Charlie Hebdo incident several years back.

And the filthy little piece of murderous shit that killed him wasn’t even in the class, never saw the fucking picture, and had nothing whatsoever to do with the situation. Fuck him and fuck anyone who tries to justify him or vilify his innocent victim with some “But wait” bullshit.

Religion is poison, the religious are poisonous, and that particular brand of poison is most vile of all. It should be mocked without mercy.

[electric_blue68]

67. Hmm...

" Religion is poison, the religious are poisonous, and that particular brand of poison is most vile of all. It should be mocked without mercy. ".

As some one who's friends and much of my pretty big family is a range, a variety of secularists, agnostics, left their religion to become secularist, left their religion for another religion, Spiritual, New Age, Ecuminical Religious people - all quite caring for all kinds of people (in general). I know of some deeply ecumenical churches doing deep caring, ecological, and justice work. They work in the community, the city, and beyond linked with other like-minded institutions. They do vital work.

So I find your statement offensive in it's broad brush generalities.

I, myself, am a Spiritual person who left my religion decides ago; so you where I'm coming from.

[snort]

19. If he's not supposed to be depicted, how the fuck would they know what he looks like?

[oldsoftie]

27. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Your screen name just happened.

[C Moon]

44. :D

[rockfordfile]

30. Good they put the pos terrorist down.

[iluvtennis]

34. I'm speechless. May Samuel Paty Rest in Peace.

[the_sly_pig]

39. Religion kills..... again.

[GoneOffShore]

41. Time to break out the Terry Pratchett quote -

“The figures looked more or less human. And they were engaged in religion. You could tell by the knives (it's not murder if you do it for a god).”
― Terry Pratchett, Small Gods

[KentuckyWoman]

46. I do understand I'm shifting the goalpost a little here ... but ...

This kind of thing is the exact reason why I am fervent in my fight to be sure our laws both protect freedom of religion and freedom FROM religion. In all of history, I don't know of any society dominated by a certain religion that did well long term.

Diversity is good in all things. In order to preserve that we've got to keep the kudzu from killing off the oak trees - so to speak.

[oldsoftie]

62. Kinda funny you mention Kudzu. Kudzu is an invasive species.

If only the Kudzu could learn to live with the OTHER species without killing them!!

[llashram]

47. religion

a bane on human existence

[Codeine]

55. The attacker's sister was part of the Islamic State in Syria.

At a certain point it seems like the wise move is to tell the whole family to bounce.

[oldsoftie]

68. Proper vetting of these people would have likely found that out long ago too.

You're right.

[pfitz59]

59. More barbaric religious extremism

I am sick of 'religion'.

[electric_blue68]

66. So heinious! :shudders:

My thoughts are with that teacher's family, friends, students, colleagues, other people in the school, and any other non-school witnesses.

France is a Secular State. This was a class on Freedom of Expression. And considering the Charlie Hebro case - it's not a surprise this was brought up. What were some of these Muslim students thinking when they signed up for this class? That their religion would be exempt? Obviously I don't know what, or if other religions* were brought up.

There are secular Muslims. There are plenty of moderate Muslims in the world. These are a much, much smaller group. It also seems the father of that student got riled up, other related family, maybe others. He started to make a fuss on social media.

*The teacher certainly could have included the Christian Dominionists here in the USA!
I first heard of them ?15 - 20 yrs ago.

They want to bring back slavery, keep women in 2nd and 3rd class citizenship ( hereeee's Gilead! ), stone LGBTQI people to death. If a son is too disobedient, maybe even too argumentive to his father - that father has the right to kill him. They are as bad as ISIS!

Anyway this was hedious, and maybe some of those other people should be put in jail for incitement! One person's relative went and joined ISIS, as well. Investigation has to be very careful not to drag innocent people, either.

sigh

[radius777]

69. A condition of entry into any secular country should be

that the entrant must accept the conditions of secularism and freedom of expression, where any/all religions and beliefs are open to being critiqued and even mocked. Fragility is not compatible with democracy.

[JI7]

72. Agree, they should never go to these countries. France especially is very strongly secular

and culturally the opposite of the US on religion even though the US is also secular.

[muriel_volestrangler]

73. France teacher attack: Seven charged over Samuel Paty's killing

But seven people, including two students and a parent of one of Mr Paty's pupils, were detained in the days following the killing.

On Wednesday, prosecutors said six of the suspects had been charged with complicity in a terrorist murder and placed under judicial investigation.

One man is accused of having close contact with the killer and faces the lesser charge of associating with a terrorist.

All of the suspects, other than the two students who are minors at just 14 and 15, are in custody.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54632353