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Sat Oct 17, 2020, 09:07 AM

French police make arrests after teacher beheaded in Paris suburb

Source: Reuters

CONFLANS-SAINTE-HONORINE, France (Reuters) - French police were questioning nine people in custody on Saturday after a suspected Islamist sympathiser beheaded a school teacher in broad daylight on the street in a Paris suburb, police sources said.
Police shot the attacker dead minutes after he murdered 47-year-old history teacher Samuel Paty on Friday. The killing shocked the country and carried echoes of an attack five years ago on the offices of satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo.

Investigators were seeking to establish whether the attacker had acted alone or had accomplices. French media reported that he was an 18-year-old of Chechen origin.

Paty had earlier this month shown his pupils cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad in a civics class on freedom of expression, angering a number of Muslim parents. Muslims believe that any depiction of the Prophet is blasphemous.

Read more: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-france-security-idUKKBN2720BG

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Arrow 73 replies Author Time Post
Reply French police make arrests after teacher beheaded in Paris suburb (Original post)
oldsoftie Oct 17 OP
NurseJackie Oct 17 #1
oldsoftie Oct 17 #2
cwydro Oct 17 #3
onetexan Oct 17 #8
samsingh Oct 17 #11
cwydro Oct 17 #21
ChazII Oct 19 #70
Codeine Oct 17 #52
Dopers_Greed Oct 17 #4
samsingh Oct 17 #12
jmowreader Oct 17 #14
samsingh Oct 17 #15
jmowreader Oct 17 #16
cwydro Oct 17 #22
oldsoftie Oct 18 #63
Dopers_Greed Oct 17 #45
reACTIONary Oct 17 #48
oldsoftie Oct 17 #18
Polybius Oct 17 #36
Blues Heron Oct 17 #5
mdbl Oct 17 #49
mdbl Oct 17 #51
Chemisse Oct 17 #6
Blues Heron Oct 17 #7
Chemisse Oct 17 #9
cwydro Oct 17 #23
Chemisse Oct 17 #28
GoneOffShore Oct 17 #38
cwydro Oct 17 #54
Jose Garcia Oct 17 #26
MicaelS Oct 18 #65
mdbl Oct 17 #50
oldsoftie Oct 18 #64
Devil Child Oct 17 #10
Sherman A1 Oct 17 #29
samsingh Oct 17 #13
Codeine Oct 17 #17
EllieBC Oct 17 #20
Dial H For Hero Oct 17 #24
Chemisse Oct 17 #33
Dial H For Hero Oct 17 #35
Withywindle Oct 18 #61
Post removed Oct 19 #71
Jose Garcia Oct 17 #25
Chemisse Oct 17 #32
GoneOffShore Oct 17 #40
EX500rider Oct 17 #56
Codeine Oct 17 #58
Withywindle Oct 18 #60
rockfordfile Oct 17 #31
Codeine Oct 17 #57
Polybius Oct 17 #37
robbob Oct 17 #42
GulfCoast66 Oct 17 #43
Codeine Oct 17 #53
electric_blue68 Oct 19 #67
snort Oct 17 #19
oldsoftie Oct 17 #27
C Moon Oct 17 #44
rockfordfile Oct 17 #30
iluvtennis Oct 17 #34
the_sly_pig Oct 17 #39
GoneOffShore Oct 17 #41
KentuckyWoman Oct 17 #46
oldsoftie Oct 18 #62
llashram Oct 17 #47
Codeine Oct 17 #55
oldsoftie Oct 19 #68
pfitz59 Oct 18 #59
electric_blue68 Oct 19 #66
radius777 Oct 19 #69
JI7 Oct 20 #72
muriel_volestrangler Oct 22 #73

Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 09:12 AM

1. I'm sure Bill Maher will have some insightful comments about this.

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 09:13 AM

2. I think they should plaster the city with depictions of Mohammed.

Just a face, nothing else. No caricatures or anything like that.
They cannot be allowed to get away with fomenting constant fear

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 09:27 AM

3. I wish the attacker wasn't killed.

I would have liked to hear how he thought this would advance his cause.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #3)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 10:26 AM

8. Kid's 18 years old. Most likely would neither have the depth nor intellect to think of advancing his

cause. All they need to do is search his home w/ a warrant, do a forensic analysis of his computers, find out who his parents, family members, friends and contacts are, where and with whom he goes to, interview those people and they will find out how he was radicalized or was raised.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #3)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 10:46 AM

11. i wish the teacher wasn't killed

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Response to samsingh (Reply #11)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 11:27 AM

21. Yes, I wish that even more.

I just think the attacker got the easy way out.

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Response to samsingh (Reply #11)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 12:26 PM

70. I agree 100%

with your statement.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #3)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 10:35 PM

52. Religion rarely involves much thought.

Fundamentalist religion even less so.

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 10:01 AM

4. Right-wing religious violence from a country with a "strongman" leader

Last edited Sat Oct 17, 2020, 02:08 PM - Edit history (1)

Who would have thunk it.

*Edit* I'm talking about where the perpetrator is from (Chechnya).

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Response to Dopers_Greed (Reply #4)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 10:46 AM

12. what does this have to do with the leader ?

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Response to samsingh (Reply #12)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 10:54 AM

14. I think he's referring to Trump here

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #14)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 10:56 AM

15. i hate trump obviously but what does he have to do with this beheading?

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Response to samsingh (Reply #15)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 10:58 AM

16. Nothing...

...but we have right-wing-terrorist and strongman-leader problems of our own.

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Response to samsingh (Reply #15)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 11:28 AM

22. I think you're missing the point the poster was making.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #22)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 07:44 AM

63. I think most of us missed it. Maybe he can explain it.

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Response to samsingh (Reply #12)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 02:06 PM

45. The perpetrator was from Chechnya

That's what I was talking about

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Response to samsingh (Reply #12)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 08:03 PM

48. I think he might be referring to Chechnya ..

.. the terrorist was a Chechen refuge.

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Response to Dopers_Greed (Reply #4)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 11:19 AM

18. France doesnt have whats considered a "strongman" leader.

Not sure where youre coming from.

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Response to Dopers_Greed (Reply #4)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 12:07 PM

36. Macron is not a "strongman"

He is a popular elected leader in France.

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 10:06 AM

5. They need to add a commandment

"whatever happens - don't slaughter your neighbor"

Seems like there's some major confusion on this planet about this topic.

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Response to Blues Heron (Reply #5)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 08:51 PM

49. no shit!

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Response to mdbl (Reply #49)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 09:32 PM

51. no shit!

Also cancel the beheading class they must give their children as part of their religious instruction. Idiots

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 10:15 AM

6. This is really awful, but seriously, what was he thinking?

Why would he do something that was so offensive to Muslims when he had a large portion of students who were Muslim? It is really wrong for a teacher to do what amounts to mocking his students' religious beliefs. It's no secret how strongly they feel about this.

Killing him for this is horrific and brutal. He should have been fired from his job though.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 10:23 AM

7. It's France - a secular state

You can't cater to every last random whim of the religious people. They need to learn how to conduct themselves in civil society i.e. don't start slaughterin' in His name.

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Response to Blues Heron (Reply #7)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 10:31 AM

9. Agree they need to stop killing people for this. It's insane!

But as a high school teacher who works in a receiver town for refugees - many of whom are Muslim - I find it appalling that a teacher could stand in front of them and commit what they see as blasphemy.

It's just common decency to respect the feelings of others.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #9)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 11:31 AM

23. They were advised they could choose to leave.

Would you say the same about anyone mocking Christianity?

I see it mocked all the time here, and I don’t recall anyone defending that faith.

I’m not in the least religious btw.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #23)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 11:51 AM

28. Anybody should be able to say anything - I believe in freedom of speech - but not in a classroom.

Nobody's religion, customs, language, etc. should be mocked by a teacher in class. School is supposed to be a safe place for kids.

But the penalty for that should be warnings from school administration or job loss. There is no excuse for the brutal killing of someone who mocks your religion. None at all.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #28)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 12:40 PM

38. Lacite - Secularism - is the official policy of the French state.

Last edited Sun Oct 18, 2020, 02:22 AM - Edit history (1)

And the teacher was talking about freedom of expression.

Not sure how you get that that the teacher was 'mocking' Islam.

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Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #38)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 10:48 PM

54. Thank you.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #9)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 11:39 AM

26. How many American teachers were beheaded recently for teaching evolution or the Big Bang theory?

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #9)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 07:59 AM

65. There is a limit on everything.

Do we have to respect the feelings of Republicans who are trying to destroy this country?

Islam does not have, nor should deserve ANY special protection when it conflicts with Western Liberal values. I am sick and tired of those who cater to, and excuse religious fanatics. No matter the religion.

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Response to Blues Heron (Reply #7)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 08:53 PM

50. exactly. Either the learn to live with others freedoms or leave and find an island somewhere.

I guess the weirdo radical muslims that perpetrate these crimes want me to hate them and their religion. mission accomplished.

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Response to mdbl (Reply #50)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 07:45 AM

64. Most do not want to assimilate. Which results in massive troubles.

Especially with the social systems.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 10:38 AM

10. No, Islamic Fragility is the problem here, not the teacher.

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Response to Devil Child (Reply #10)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 11:51 AM

29. Precisely

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 10:47 AM

13. someone should be terrified of free speech to the point of death?

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 11:05 AM

17. Worst hot take ever.

Who cares who it offends? That’s how France works.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 11:24 AM

20. Wow. Should women stop dressing as they please two? Should they

stop fighting for equal rights? Don’t want to offend the fragile men.

How about in Muslim countries? Should the women just take abuse so as not to upset their religion?

Seriously that was the worst take ever.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 11:31 AM

24. So your takeaway is that teachers who offend fundamentalists should be fired? Really?

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #24)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 12:01 PM

33. Actually yes. I can't talk about what a POS Trump is in my classroom, so basically the same thing.

You keep your personal feelings and biases to yourself. I was pretty angry the year my son came home spouting Republican talking points, thanks to one of his teachers.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #33)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 12:05 PM

35. So teaching separatiion of church and state in a civics class should get a teacher fired?

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #33)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 01:53 AM

61. So you think teachers should pander to students who have sexist or homophobic beliefs?

Because of their religion?

I don't. Students go to school for an education, and an important part of education is encountering ideas they don't agree with, and learning to deal with them in a civil manner. And learning that the religious worldview they were raised in, if they're fundamentalists, its FAR from the real center of the universe, and there are many ways to see the world that are different.

I don't assume this teacher was mocking his students. I don't know. He might have been. Or he might have been legitimately trying to educate about recent history like the Charlie Hebdo massacre, and talk about cultural differences in how depictions of religious figures are seen, and how what is shocking and taboo to one group might be unremarkable to another. It's an important conversation to have, if so.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #33)


Response to Chemisse (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 11:38 AM

25. This is veering awfully close to blaming rape victims because of the way they were dressed

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Response to Jose Garcia (Reply #25)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 11:59 AM

32. I see your point. I just have strong beliefs that teachers should respect student feelings.

What this teacher does outside of class is his business. He should be able to walk the streets with the image of Mohammed if he wishes without any repercussions at all.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #32)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 12:42 PM

40. Where do you teach? I'm guessing not in France.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #32)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 10:53 PM

56. And if the student believes in flat earth or 6,000 year old earth u skip science? nt

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #56)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 10:56 PM

58. "Mr. Garvey said finches evolved different beaks

depending on their local food sources, so I disemboweled him.”

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #32)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 01:46 AM

60. What if the student believes that women shouldn't be teaching and shouldn't show their faces?

What if they believe they should be able to say that their LGBT classmates are going to hell and should be killed?

What if they actually sincerely hold the opinion that it's okay to kill anyone over a drawing?

Some feelings should be respected. Others have no place in a civil pluralistic society.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 11:57 AM

31. If they're that extreme, then France should think about kicking them the hell out.

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Response to rockfordfile (Reply #31)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 10:54 PM

57. At some point Islam needs to figure some shit out.

They’re certainly not historically unique so far as religious violence goes, but the rest of the world has largely moved beyond that. Time to catch up.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 12:09 PM

37. He just talked about the cartoon controversy

Remember when it was in the news about 10 years ago? That's what he brought up. He didn't make fun of anyone, he was just teaching a history lesson.

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Response to Polybius (Reply #37)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 12:53 PM

42. Actually the Charlie Hebdo terrorist attack was just 5 years ago

And apparently sparked by the magazine publishing a cartoon depiction of Mohammed on its cover. It’s hard to imagine teaching the history of this incident without talking about, or showing, the (very inoffensive) cover cartoon that incited those maniacs.

If anything good comes out of this I would hope the students of this teacher can understand just how evil religious extremism can be, and turn away from it. One very radicalized 18 year old obviously could not. 🙁

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 01:25 PM

43. I'm calling respectful bullshit here!

He was teaching a class on Freedom of expression. France is a totally secular state.

We should never give in to self censorship, even in the face of violence.

Knowing the French it is just a matter of time until those images are widely posted. Send the message of you can’t take a cartoon GTF out of the country.

All religions are regularly made fun of in France. Islam gets no pass.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 10:43 PM

53. Fired from his job?

France is an aggressively secular state, and the teacher was specifically teaching a course on the freedom of expression. He showed the cartoon as it related to the Charlie Hebdo incident several years back.

And the filthy little piece of murderous shit that killed him wasn’t even in the class, never saw the fucking picture, and had nothing whatsoever to do with the situation. Fuck him and fuck anyone who tries to justify him or vilify his innocent victim with some “But wait” bullshit.

Religion is poison, the religious are poisonous, and that particular brand of poison is most vile of all. It should be mocked without mercy.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #53)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 05:40 AM

67. Hmm...

" Religion is poison, the religious are poisonous, and that particular brand of poison is most vile of all. It should be mocked without mercy. ".

As some one who's friends and much of my pretty big family is a range, a variety of secularists, agnostics, left their religion to become secularist, left their religion for another religion, Spiritual, New Age, Ecuminical Religious people - all quite caring for all kinds of people (in general). I know of some deeply ecumenical churches doing deep caring, ecological, and justice work. They work in the community, the city, and beyond linked with other like-minded institutions. They do vital work.

So I find your statement offensive in it's broad brush generalities.

I, myself, am a Spiritual person who left my religion decides ago; so you where I'm coming from.

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 11:23 AM

19. If he's not supposed to be depicted, how the fuck would they know what he looks like?

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Response to snort (Reply #19)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 11:41 AM

27. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Your screen name just happened.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #27)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 01:40 PM

44. :D

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 11:55 AM

30. Good they put the pos terrorist down.

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 12:05 PM

34. I'm speechless. May Samuel Paty Rest in Peace.

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 12:41 PM

39. Religion kills..... again.

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Response to the_sly_pig (Reply #39)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 12:44 PM

41. Time to break out the Terry Pratchett quote -

“The figures looked more or less human. And they were engaged in religion. You could tell by the knives (it's not murder if you do it for a god).”
― Terry Pratchett, Small Gods

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 02:15 PM

46. I do understand I'm shifting the goalpost a little here ... but ...

This kind of thing is the exact reason why I am fervent in my fight to be sure our laws both protect freedom of religion and freedom FROM religion. In all of history, I don't know of any society dominated by a certain religion that did well long term.

Diversity is good in all things. In order to preserve that we've got to keep the kudzu from killing off the oak trees - so to speak.

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Response to KentuckyWoman (Reply #46)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 07:43 AM

62. Kinda funny you mention Kudzu. Kudzu is an invasive species.

If only the Kudzu could learn to live with the OTHER species without killing them!!

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 06:36 PM

47. religion

a bane on human existence

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Sat Oct 17, 2020, 10:49 PM

55. The attacker's sister was part of the Islamic State in Syria.

At a certain point it seems like the wise move is to tell the whole family to bounce.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #55)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 06:53 AM

68. Proper vetting of these people would have likely found that out long ago too.

You're right.

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 01:31 AM

59. More barbaric religious extremism

I am sick of 'religion'.

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 05:15 AM

66. So heinious! :shudders:

My thoughts are with that teacher's family, friends, students, colleagues, other people in the school, and any other non-school witnesses.

France is a Secular State. This was a class on Freedom of Expression. And considering the Charlie Hebro case - it's not a surprise this was brought up. What were some of these Muslim students thinking when they signed up for this class? That their religion would be exempt? Obviously I don't know what, or if other religions* were brought up.

There are secular Muslims. There are plenty of moderate Muslims in the world. These are a much, much smaller group. It also seems the father of that student got riled up, other related family, maybe others. He started to make a fuss on social media.

*The teacher certainly could have included the Christian Dominionists here in the USA!
I first heard of them ?15 - 20 yrs ago.

They want to bring back slavery, keep women in 2nd and 3rd class citizenship ( hereeee's Gilead! ), stone LGBTQI people to death. If a son is too disobedient, maybe even too argumentive to his father - that father has the right to kill him. They are as bad as ISIS!

Anyway this was hedious, and maybe some of those other people should be put in jail for incitement! One person's relative went and joined ISIS, as well. Investigation has to be very careful not to drag innocent people, either.

sigh

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 08:49 AM

69. A condition of entry into any secular country should be

that the entrant must accept the conditions of secularism and freedom of expression, where any/all religions and beliefs are open to being critiqued and even mocked. Fragility is not compatible with democracy.

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Response to radius777 (Reply #69)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 08:18 AM

72. Agree, they should never go to these countries. France especially is very strongly secular

and culturally the opposite of the US on religion even though the US is also secular.

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Thu Oct 22, 2020, 04:09 PM

73. France teacher attack: Seven charged over Samuel Paty's killing

But seven people, including two students and a parent of one of Mr Paty's pupils, were detained in the days following the killing.

On Wednesday, prosecutors said six of the suspects had been charged with complicity in a terrorist murder and placed under judicial investigation.

One man is accused of having close contact with the killer and faces the lesser charge of associating with a terrorist.

All of the suspects, other than the two students who are minors at just 14 and 15, are in custody.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54632353

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