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riversedge

(70,077 posts)
Sat Nov 21, 2020, 08:48 PM Nov 2020

Mike Kelly, Sean Parnell Request To Declare Mail-In Voting Unconstitutional In Pennsylvania, Deny Re

Source: cbslocal.com





Mike Kelly, Sean Parnell Request To Declare Mail-In Voting Unconstitutional In Pennsylvania, Deny Results From 2020 Election Mail-In Ballots
They are calling upon the Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania to rule against "universal" mail-in ballot provisions.



November 21, 2020 at 3:39 pm


HARRISBURG (KDKA) — Congressman Mike Kelly and congressional candidate Sean Parnell are requesting the Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania to declare universal mail-in voting unconstitutional in the state and deny the votes of the majority of Pennsylvanians who voted by mail in the Nov. 3 election.


In the official request, the plaintiffs specifically cite issue with Act 77 and its “universal mail-in ballot provisions.”

They allege that the provisions that allow all qualified electors to vote by mail in Pennsylvania are unconstitutional.

As such, they are calling for mail-in ballots that they allege do not meet “Constitutional requirements” to not be certified and for only “legal votes” to be certified or for the Pennsylvania General Assembly to choose the electors and compensate the legal costs of the plaintiffs.

Both Kelly and Parnell are registered Republicans.

Read more: https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2020/11/21/mail-in-voting-legal-challenge-pennsylvania/



I would think Republicans in congress would be embarrassed by now. But I guess not. They just let the idiot Trump make fools of themselves--and the Republicans!! Insane







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51 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Mike Kelly, Sean Parnell Request To Declare Mail-In Voting Unconstitutional In Pennsylvania, Deny Re (Original Post) riversedge Nov 2020 OP
Republicans no longer believe in democracy Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Nov 2020 #1
The new RNC... RealityCheque Nov 2020 #2
Really Need a Coup Kablooie Nov 2020 #18
No thanks Roy Rolling Nov 2020 #34
I'm not sure I remember when they did. dchill Nov 2020 #4
They haven't for Rebl2 Nov 2020 #17
The Advent of Gingerich... IthinkThereforeIAM Nov 2020 #22
Gingrich started the republican revolution that led us where we are today ailsagirl Nov 2020 #24
That is Rebl2 Nov 2020 #36
do they even stop to see what they are doing? Marthe48 Nov 2020 #3
RT KR.. mike kelly seems like a Cha Nov 2020 #5
His district is right across the state line from me Ohiogal Nov 2020 #8
Will the time EVER come when I can stop being afraid? rainin Nov 2020 #6
Kelly says Act 77 is unconstitutional; 4 months ago, he sued 'coz he said it wasn't being followed muriel_volestrangler Nov 2020 #7
They're filing in a different venue: State Court LeftInTX Nov 2020 #9
So he thinks filing in a different court would make reversing his claims credible? muriel_volestrangler Nov 2020 #10
Kelly is a Congressman BumRushDaShow Nov 2020 #21
A new nickname for PA Rs - "Da Bungles" DeminPennswoods Nov 2020 #28
Or a variation - "Da Bunglers" BumRushDaShow Nov 2020 #29
"Bungles" is the nickname bestowed on DeminPennswoods Nov 2020 #41
I can imagine what the Iggles were called BumRushDaShow Nov 2020 #42
Filthydelphia DeminPennswoods Nov 2020 #43
Not just there! BumRushDaShow Nov 2020 #44
The litterbugs in Phila drove me nuts DeminPennswoods Nov 2020 #45
Yup BumRushDaShow Nov 2020 #46
Hey, I resent that lonely bird Nov 2020 #39
Need I even mention the Iggles? BumRushDaShow Nov 2020 #40
Sounds like election fraud to pass a law that you believe is constitutional and then Raven123 Nov 2020 #11
On one end, Repub leaders want to get rid of mail in; on the other, Repub voters want to get rid of ancianita Nov 2020 #12
All of them seditious traitors and criminals. I would deport them all a Antarctica or another planet rickyhall Nov 2020 #13
Can the judge agree to look at the Constitutional question at some point in the future? Raven123 Nov 2020 #14
The GOP sued in Texas over COVID expansion of early voting via executive orders by the governor LeftInTX Nov 2020 #23
No. This is what the state law says BumRushDaShow Nov 2020 #30
I saw that. I read a comment suggesting that if the law was unconstitutional... Raven123 Nov 2020 #35
Why would it be irrelevent? BumRushDaShow Nov 2020 #37
Isn't one the PA state constitutional tests DeminPennswoods Nov 2020 #50
When I read the judge's decision BumRushDaShow Nov 2020 #51
I think the case gets tossed Happy Hoosier Nov 2020 #47
but several states, like OR, WA, CO, use 100% mail-in voting TomDaisy Nov 2020 #15
Each state has its own state Constitution yourmovemonkey Nov 2020 #19
Workin' overtime to prove they support an overthrow of the US government. Kablooie Nov 2020 #16
Mike Kelly rso Nov 2020 #20
Publicity stunt for the red-meat PA base. KY_EnviroGuy Nov 2020 #25
So trump's new strategy is to republicans from the state he is targeting to file the suits for him usajumpedtheshark Nov 2020 #26
Deployed military has always used mail in voting and those out-of-state in election day Rhiannon12866 Nov 2020 #27
Even the astronauts on the ISS vote "absentee" BumRushDaShow Nov 2020 #31
Excellent point! Rhiannon12866 Nov 2020 #32
I miss the lever machines! BumRushDaShow Nov 2020 #33
this is so laughable it goes beyond crazy and of course will be tossed out of court beachbumbob Nov 2020 #38
We're at the point where sanctions are in order jmowreader Nov 2020 #48
Apparently this new lawsuit was incorrectly filed DeminPennswoods Nov 2020 #49

Roy Rolling

(6,908 posts)
34. No thanks
Sun Nov 22, 2020, 06:59 AM
Nov 2020

We already have one. Fortunately, it may be only a Coup of Dunces.

Next time it’ll be worse if we don’t make changes to the holes in our democracy that depend on honor and truthfulness to substitute for the rule of law. Trump has proven the risks of depending on tyrants to be self-regulating.

IthinkThereforeIAM

(3,075 posts)
22. The Advent of Gingerich...
Sat Nov 21, 2020, 11:46 PM
Nov 2020

... businessman first, statesman last. Got real bad after Clinton was elected in 1992.

ailsagirl

(22,885 posts)
24. Gingrich started the republican revolution that led us where we are today
Sun Nov 22, 2020, 02:11 AM
Nov 2020

Bastard!!!!!!!!!

Of course, he had plenty of help

Marthe48

(16,898 posts)
3. do they even stop to see what they are doing?
Sat Nov 21, 2020, 08:54 PM
Nov 2020

They are trying to deny a majority of legal votes. To protect somebody who has killed over 260,427 Americans. I could puke.

rainin

(3,010 posts)
6. Will the time EVER come when I can stop being afraid?
Sat Nov 21, 2020, 09:03 PM
Nov 2020

This is all terrifying. I hear what they're trying and I don't know the chances of success. It seems like we have to win 100% of the time and they only have to win once for the whole thing to fall like dominos. I need to hear Bob Bauer daily for reassurance. I need him to tell me it's going to be ok.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,265 posts)
7. Kelly says Act 77 is unconstitutional; 4 months ago, he sued 'coz he said it wasn't being followed
Sat Nov 21, 2020, 09:09 PM
Nov 2020
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA
DONALD J. TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT,
INC.; GLENN THOMPSON; MIKE KELLY; ...
v.
KATHY BOOCKVAR, in her capacity as
Secretary of the Commonwealth of
Pennsylvania ...

All of this was on full display in Pennsylvania’s June 2, 2020 Primary Election.
That election proved that Defendants are unwilling to properly administer the Pennsylvania
General Assembly’s new mail-in voting law, Act 77, that made significant changes to
Pennsylvania’s elections, and instead have opted to promote unlimited use of unmonitored mailin voting.

https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/2020-07/Plaintiffs%27%20Amended%20Complaint.pdf

Kelly and the Trumpistas lost: https://casetext.com/case/donald-j-trump-for-president-inc-v-boockvar-3

And if all but 1 GOP representative voted for Act 77, does that mean Kelly did?

LeftInTX

(25,126 posts)
9. They're filing in a different venue: State Court
Sat Nov 21, 2020, 09:26 PM
Nov 2020

They tried that in Texas over modifications for COVID. The all Republican Texas Supreme Court dismissed the case.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,265 posts)
10. So he thinks filing in a different court would make reversing his claims credible?
Sat Nov 21, 2020, 09:28 PM
Nov 2020

Anything's possible with Republicans, I suppose ...

BumRushDaShow

(128,441 posts)
21. Kelly is a Congressman
Sat Nov 21, 2020, 11:38 PM
Nov 2020

not even a state Rep.

From our state Attorney General -




TEXT

Josh Shapiro
@JoshShapiroPA
The candidates + elected officials who joined this suit should be ashamed of themselves. They’re asking a court to throw out the votes of 2.5 million Pennsylvanians.

It’s another weak attempt to subvert the will of the people. Desperate, hypocritical, baseless... I could go on.
Brad Heath
@bradheath
Meanwhile, some Pennsylvania Republicans led by Rep. @MikeKellyPA are asking a state court to declare that the state's entire vote-by-mail system, violates the state constitution and that millions of votes cast this year must now be invalidated.
Image
5:41 PM · Nov 21, 2020


And Lt. Governor -




TEXT

John Fetterman
@JohnFetterman
·
Nov 21, 2020
Replying to @JohnFetterman
If PA doesn’t certify our Election results, after November 30th, we technically don’t have a State House of Representatives and 1/2 a state senate.

Which are controlled by Republicans.
😆
GIF

John Fetterman
@JohnFetterman
Straight up amateur hour.

The only team with a history of losing this much is the Cincinnati Bengals.
1:59 PM · Nov 21, 2020 from Pittsburgh, PA




And delaying/invalidating ballots also invalidates the votes for the whole down-ballot ticket, including the entire PA state House (GOP-controlled), 1/2 the PA state Senate (GOP-controlled), and all 18 members of the Congressional delegation (9 (R) - 9 (D)).

DeminPennswoods

(15,265 posts)
41. "Bungles" is the nickname bestowed on
Sun Nov 22, 2020, 01:03 PM
Nov 2020

the Cincinnati Bengals by the legendary Pittsburgh broadcaster and sports writer, Myron Cope. Cleveland was the "Cleve Brownies" or collapsed into "Cl-owns". Balt is the "ratbirds". Steelers, to other AFCN teams, are the "Squealers".

It's the same in Philly with "the Cowgirls" and so on.

Then there's Cope famous xmas carol "Deck the Broncos, they're just yonkos, fa lalala, lala, lala".

DeminPennswoods

(15,265 posts)
45. The litterbugs in Phila drove me nuts
Sun Nov 22, 2020, 01:12 PM
Nov 2020

People just throwing trash on the ground even if there was trash can nearby or it was something small you could wad up and put in a pocket to toss when you got home. I never failed to be astounded by this behavior because it's not the way I was taught.

BumRushDaShow

(128,441 posts)
46. Yup
Sun Nov 22, 2020, 01:17 PM
Nov 2020

Tossed paper pizza plates, plastic take-out bags, and all manner of stuff out of car windows... But then there were and still are the "dumpers" who unload pickup trucks full of construction and home renovation crap into empty lots. They have put up surveillance cameras to finally start catching these idiots.

BumRushDaShow

(128,441 posts)
40. Need I even mention the Iggles?
Sun Nov 22, 2020, 09:32 AM
Nov 2020


Question: How can someone be in first place with a record of 3-5-1?
Answer: Be a member of the NFC East!!!



(Eagles will probably lose to the once-downtrodden now HOT Cleveland Browns )

Raven123

(4,791 posts)
11. Sounds like election fraud to pass a law that you believe is constitutional and then
Sat Nov 21, 2020, 09:33 PM
Nov 2020

Wait until after the election to tell those who voted under its provisions. Given it had overwhelming GOP support, the stench is overwhelming.

ancianita

(35,932 posts)
12. On one end, Repub leaders want to get rid of mail in; on the other, Repub voters want to get rid of
Sat Nov 21, 2020, 09:49 PM
Nov 2020

Dominion. It's almost as if they're working on ridding themselves of all voters, covid and Constitution be damned.

Bottom line for us, we need to call what they all do the clever-by-half maneuverings of bad losers.

rickyhall

(4,889 posts)
13. All of them seditious traitors and criminals. I would deport them all a Antarctica or another planet
Sat Nov 21, 2020, 10:01 PM
Nov 2020

Just sayin. They don't deserve the company of real human beings.

Raven123

(4,791 posts)
14. Can the judge agree to look at the Constitutional question at some point in the future?
Sat Nov 21, 2020, 10:13 PM
Nov 2020

Since the law was written with a provision that constitutional questions should be brought up in 6 months of it’s passage, and no one was in a hurry, what would be the big deal? No harm to wait as the only voter disenfranchisement would occur if the the law were indeed declared unconstitutional. No one’s rights are at issue by leaving addressing this on a more relaxed schedule.

LeftInTX

(25,126 posts)
23. The GOP sued in Texas over COVID expansion of early voting via executive orders by the governor
Sun Nov 22, 2020, 01:52 AM
Nov 2020

They claimed it was a violation of the Texas constitution.

The state supreme court dismissed the case.

This was BEFORE the election.


There is no way a state supreme court will go along with this.

BumRushDaShow

(128,441 posts)
30. No. This is what the state law says
Sun Nov 22, 2020, 06:02 AM
Nov 2020

those arguments needed to be made within 6 months after passage.
The relevant election law was called "Act 77". I had posted this in another thread -

PENNSYLVANIA ELECTION CODE - OMNIBUS AMENDMENTS
Act of Oct. 31, 2019, P.L. 552, No. 77 Cl. 25

Session of 2019
No. 2019-77
SB 421

AN ACT

(snip)

Section 12. Repeals are as follows:

(snip)

(2) The Pennsylvania Supreme Court has exclusive jurisdiction to hear a challenge to or to render a declaratory judgment concerning the constitutionality of a provision referred to in paragraph (1). The Supreme Court may take action it deems appropriate, consistent with the Supreme Court retaining jurisdiction over the matter, to find facts or to expedite a final judgment in connection with such a challenge or request for declaratory relief.

(3) An action under paragraph (2) must be commenced within 180 days of the effective date of this section.


Section 14. This act shall apply to elections held on or after April 28, 2020.

Section 15. This act shall take effect as follows:

(1) The addition of section 207 of the act shall take effect in 180 days.

(2) The amendment of section 908 of the act shall take effect in 60 days.

(3) The remainder of this act shall take effect immediately.



APPROVED--The 31st day of October, A.D. 2019.



TOM WOLF


They had until this past April to do this and didn't. They would need to repeal or alter the law at this point and with a Democratic governor, that would mean a certain veto that they would be unable to override.

Raven123

(4,791 posts)
35. I saw that. I read a comment suggesting that if the law was unconstitutional...
Sun Nov 22, 2020, 07:33 AM
Nov 2020

... that provision would be irrelevant. The question is interesting. My comment basically suggests that no one was harmed by the law, regardless of whether it is constitutional, which is the basis for most challenges. Even if the absentee voters, voted in person, there no reason to believe they would have voted differently.


I for one am getting a real education in law this year! Thanks for responding

BumRushDaShow

(128,441 posts)
37. Why would it be irrelevent?
Sun Nov 22, 2020, 07:56 AM
Nov 2020

This suit would be referencing the law's relationship to the PA state Constitution, not the U.S. Constitution (a dispute of which would need to be filed in federal court, their previous attempts of which have been thrown out over and over and over in that venue ).

In this case, what the law does is take the existing election code that permitted "absentee ballots" (which have been around for many many decades) and creates a version of the "absentee ballot" process that removes the required allowable reasons to vote absentee, which then makes these ballots a "no-excuse absentee ballot".

I.e., the use of an absentee ballot requires specific permitted reasons for not being able to vote at the designated polling place on election day (e.g., "out of town on that day", "incapacitated", etc.). With the expansion of "absentee ballots" to a model no longer needing an excuse (although still retaining the original absentee ballot process), then what reason would be valid that would not throw out the whole absentee ballot process used for critical people including our military serving overseas?

And given there have been no challenges over many decades (that I am aware of) to the original absentee ballot process, then what makes this different?

What is in place in PA is different from what other states have implemented - including next door neighbor state New Jersey, where the state automatically sends out "mail ballots" to every registered voter. Here in PA, you have to explicitly apply for a "no-excuse absentee ballot" (the technical name for it), and then when approved, you are given the option to continue that method for any remaining elections for that year only. The following year if you want to vote in that manner, you have to re-apply for a "no-excuse absentee ballot", otherwise you would need to show up at your designated polling location if you plan to vote and don't apply for a regular absentee ballot (with an excuse).

And as a sidenote - both KY and UT, ruby red states, have this type of ballot and used them for their elections. Why aren't those being challenged in court by their campaign?

DeminPennswoods

(15,265 posts)
50. Isn't one the PA state constitutional tests
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 05:27 AM
Nov 2020

that the law has to treat everyone the same? IIRC, that's the reason we've been unable to move away from a flat income tax to a graduated one.

Under that logic, I'd think the expansion of absentee voting clearly would meet that "equal treatment" criteria. Plus we used the new system in the primary, which was also held during the current epidemic, and no one complained about it.

BumRushDaShow

(128,441 posts)
51. When I read the judge's decision
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 05:46 AM
Nov 2020

that was basically the gist. The judge indicated that the thrust should be for more voting rather than less and that the plaintiff didn't show that the fault of the allegations was that of the SOS, as the offer was made to all counties.

I read an analysis yesterday (I think in the Inquirer) that IIRC indicated that there were 4 red counties in PA where a majority of mail-in ballots were for 45 (have to find the article again), so it wasn't like the option wasn't available to all and that GOP voters were somehow unable to use the option.

The arguments the "voters" who were part of the suit made, was that their counties didn't avail them of the ability to cure, but that's not Boockvar's fault (I think one of the counties in the suit was Lancaster).

Happy Hoosier

(7,216 posts)
47. I think the case gets tossed
Sun Nov 22, 2020, 01:32 PM
Nov 2020

I doubt either man can demonstrate standing and there is no way a court tosses out 2.5 million votes as redress even if they could. The time to file a suit about the 2020 elections is months ago. No court is going to disenfranchise voters on that scale.

TomDaisy

(1,860 posts)
15. but several states, like OR, WA, CO, use 100% mail-in voting
Sat Nov 21, 2020, 10:26 PM
Nov 2020

how can it be Constitutional in one state but not another?

yourmovemonkey

(266 posts)
19. Each state has its own state Constitution
Sat Nov 21, 2020, 10:56 PM
Nov 2020

Since the process of elections are delegated to each individual state, most legal questions regarding elections would be decided based on that particular state's laws.

Kablooie

(18,610 posts)
16. Workin' overtime to prove they support an overthrow of the US government.
Sat Nov 21, 2020, 10:47 PM
Nov 2020

Throwing all their eggs into the coup basket.

I sure hope this comes back to sting him like a murder hornet.

rso

(2,267 posts)
20. Mike Kelly
Sat Nov 21, 2020, 11:21 PM
Nov 2020

They are doing this in State Court, so even in the extremely unlikely event that the State Judge rules in favor of Don the Con, the eventual appeal would be heard before the 5-2 Democratic Pennsylvania Supreme Court.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,488 posts)
25. Publicity stunt for the red-meat PA base.
Sun Nov 22, 2020, 02:41 AM
Nov 2020

Besides, if they thought it was unconstitutional, why didn't they bring suit well before the election?

I'm sure this will make lots of noise on Faux News and right-wing talk radio, just as they wish.


KY........

Rhiannon12866

(204,755 posts)
27. Deployed military has always used mail in voting and those out-of-state in election day
Sun Nov 22, 2020, 03:19 AM
Nov 2020

I voted absentee the entire time I was in college and when I worked on my congressman's campaign, I told parents how to request absentee ballots for heir kids who were college students. And hasn't Trump voted absentee?

BumRushDaShow

(128,441 posts)
31. Even the astronauts on the ISS vote "absentee"
Sun Nov 22, 2020, 06:13 AM
Nov 2020



TEXT

NASA Astronauts
@NASA_Astronauts
From the International Space Station: I voted today

— Kate Rubins
Image
4:30 PM · Oct 22, 2020


I know the 4 years I was away at college I voted absentee and my mom would tell me that when she went to vote at our polling place, the poll workers (who usually know the regulars who vote every election) would tell her that yes indeed, they got my absentee ballot (since they are sent in well before the election and handed over to the Division to register and eventually process on or after election day).

Rhiannon12866

(204,755 posts)
32. Excellent point!
Sun Nov 22, 2020, 06:28 AM
Nov 2020

I remember seeing them on the news! And when I was in college, my mother made sure that I got an absentee ballot - and we got calls from other parents at campaign headquarters when I worked for my congressman so I gave instructions to them. I must have voted absentee before I ever voted in person because I was away at school before I was even 18 - unless you count the times when I was really little and went into the voting booth with my father, he'd pick me up and tell me which levers to push, though I have no idea who I voted for...

jmowreader

(50,528 posts)
48. We're at the point where sanctions are in order
Sun Nov 22, 2020, 02:11 PM
Nov 2020

The first lawsuit questioning the validity of the election? Irritating, but everyone has the right to be heard. After the courts found the election to be acceptably clean, that should have been the end of it. Do like Jimmy Carter and George HW Bush did and start planning your post-presidency life. (In the case of this president, that involves ordering a copy of the book “How to Survive Federal Prison.”)

Trump’s minions have filed so many baseless suits we’re now somewhere between “harassing” and “malicious.” Fines are now in order, if not jail time for contempt of court.

DeminPennswoods

(15,265 posts)
49. Apparently this new lawsuit was incorrectly filed
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:02 AM
Nov 2020

The court gave Kelly, Parnell et al until Monday morning to re-file their case.

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