San Francisco to strip Washington, Lincoln from school names

[brooklynite]

Source: AP News

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — The names of Abraham Lincoln, George Washington and other prominent figures including California Sen. Dianne Feinstein will be removed from 44 San Francisco public schools, a move that stirred debate Wednesday on whether the famously liberal city has taken the national reckoning on America’s racist past too far.

The decision by the San Francisco Board of Education in a 6-1 vote Tuesday night affects one-third of the city’s schools and came nearly three years after the board started considering the idea. The approved resolution calls for removing names that honored historical figures with direct or broad ties to slavery, oppression, racism or the “subjugation” of human beings.

In addition to Washington and Thomas Jefferson — former presidents who owned slaves — the list includes naturalist John Muir, Spanish priest Junipero Serra, American Revolution patriot Paul Revere and Francis Scott Key, composer of the “Star Spangled Banner.”

Changing the name of Dianne Feinstein Elementary school, named for the Democratic senator and former mayor of San Francisco, has raised eyebrows. The trailblazing 87-year old’s star has dimmed in recent years with dismayed liberals joining calls for her retirement last year after she embraced Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham at the end of heated confirmation hearings for U.S. Supreme Court Judge Amy Coney Barrett.

Read more: https://apnews.com/article/race-and-ethnicity-san-francisco-school-boards-education-dianne-feinstein-8ed10976d4041129917914f7dd73c14e

[mahatmakanejeeves]

1. Acceptable names: PS #1, PS #2, PS #3, ... NT

[ChazII]

9. Triskaidekaphobia

I would not be afraid to attend PS#13. Sadly, I think that is what San Franciso might end up doing.

[brooklynite]

69. It's not a probably if you keep your chakras aligned on a weekly basis.

[matt819]

37. For those who don't know

this is how it was in NYC in the 1960s (and probably earlier and later, but that's when I attended). We thought nothing of it. Junior high and high school had names. I don't know the history of naming/numbering schools in New York at the time, but my guess is that numbers were used because finding that many names could have been a challenge. I don't know what the elementary schools are called now, but I'd be happy to learn that they still use numbers.

I can understand San Francisco's decision, though it does seem extreme. You can find fault with just about anyone whom you might name a school after. What's unfortunate is the communities throughout the US have named schools after racists and traitors, and while some have begun to remove these names, many will resist, and San Francisco is unlikely to serve as a model for those people.

[mezame]

58. My High School Was Named...

...after the Street is was located on. Duh!

Rinaldi Elementary, Granada Hills, CA

[mezame]

59. Face Palm

well that was a self own.

I actually went to Lincoln Jr. High, Santa Monica. That name should hold up.

[Bucky]

84. Probably named after Renaissance poet Cesare Rinaldi

...a Roman Catholic and thus an advocate of patriarchy, the suppression of women, brutal crusades, and the capitalist exploitation of African and Asian nations for their raw goods. How the hell can you live with yourself knowing that you went to an elementary school named after that demented monster?!?!

[mezame]

90. Killing Myself Right Now!

Oh wait, I have a doctor's appointment on zoom in an hour.

Yeah maybe my elementary school was named after the poet, but hey I was only a little kid then. If I lived in Granada Hills now and had children, I'd certainly find out for sure before sending them there, if only for that reason. But as I vaguely recall (it was a long time ago), public education in the early 60's was pretty damn good.

But your comment Bucky, did make me laugh. Thanks!

[Bucky]

98. I just saw your post count. You're kinda new here.

Welcome to DU, Mezame. I hope you find a lot kinship and dangerous ideas here.

[mezame]

99. Newbie

Guilty as charged. Been vicariously following DU, which I've been drawn to much as a moth to flame. Kinship and Danger. My kinda peeps!

I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with saints any day.

[hardluck]

133. Named after the ranch owner Karl R. Rinaldi - a citrus grower in the late 1890s

in Granada Hills/Mission Hills

https://waterandpower.org/museum/Street_Name_Origins_SFV.html

[brooklynite]

131. Did you bother to check on the personal Rinaldi Street was named after?

[efhmc]

39. Lots of names for locations can be used.

[deurbano]

74. But locations are often named after someone-- like San Francisco.

At this point, few people (besides Speaker Pelosi) associate our city with that saint, though.

[snowybirdie]

2. This will be

ammunition for the rightie folks. Going too far to censor our history. Sad.

[deurbano]

12. I live in SF and this beyond stupid. These schools rely heavily on fundraising from alumni and I

can't see how this is going to help. And during a pandemic! (THIS should be a priority?) Plus, they're using this time of social distancing to ram through these changes that would have huge numbers of protestors in regular meetings. In the future, don't name schools after people, because they all have feet of clay, and all American presidents have had the power to do things that may or may not look good at the time, but will definitely not stand up to future scrutiny.

[kimbutgar]

21. I am a SF native and still resident and this is the stupidest thing I've ever heard

And I bet a lot of them never went to public schools in SF.

There is a major backlash coming on this decision.

[onetexan]

50. Agree This is really dumb

[still_one]

24. I couldn't agree more.

[lildDemz]

43. Live and let live

is not a slogan of the rightie folks. San Francisco should be allowed to run its schools. But I would appreciate comments from San Franciscans and any descendants of slaves!

[The Mouth]

92. second generation San Franciscian

This is dumb.

Really dumb.

Something even the Onion might hesitate to come up with it's so dumb.

[DeminPennswoods]

3. Should we even have a city named after a saint?

What with the constitutional separation of church and state and all.

It's just enough, but, of course no one should be surprised this would be the ultimate outcome once confederate statues started to be removed.

[marble falls]

7. So you like those Confederate statues?

[DeminPennswoods]

10. Just saying it was this was the inevitable

and predictable result that historical figures, including American's Founders who lived in a different era with different mores would be judged and deemed failures based on today's mores.

[marble falls]

11. A lot of us have no problem with that. That's how history works.

[efhmc]

41. FYI Since you are in this area of Texas.

Don't know if you had this info. I always thought that GS was way prettier than any other name.
"The lake was originally called Lake Granite Shoals. The dam would be renamed Wirtz Dam in 1952 for Alvin J. Wirtz, the first general counsel of the LCRA, and the lake was renamed to Lake Lyndon B. Johnson in 1965 in honor of US President Lyndon Baines Johnson."

[marble falls]

55. Oh yeah, and Wirtz Dam is what contains Lake LBJ. Down from there is Lake Marble Falls ...

... contained by Max Starke Dam.

[efhmc]

60. Greats had cabin there ages before all of those name changes.

At least the towns still have their lovely names

[marble falls]

61. The lake I love is Inks Lake, between Buchanan and LBJ. Small, deep and filled with coves and ...

... spits. Just a pretty and uncrowded place to be, no stupid over-powered boats or skiers.

[efhmc]

63. That is actually the lake it was on. Wish I knew how to find it. If it is still

there.

[marble falls]

65. Here you go. I drove from Marble Falls to Kingsland (14 miles) weekly before Covid ...

... it's still a pretty place to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inks_Lake

https://img.hipcamp.com/image/upload/c_limit,f_auto,h_1200,q_60,w_1920/v1428703515/campground-photos/lhrm5askce7xsfafseza.png











(that's not rain, that's the fish biting! Per the Chamber of Commerce)















(Lake Inkspot, next to Inks Lake)

[burrowowl]

81. It is pretty!

[LeftInTX]

82. Look at all that granite!

Living in a caliche world...
Caliche, the bane of my existence!

Even Cotula doesn't have caliche. Even Poteet doesn't have caliche.

[Bucky]

86. Texas is named for the Caddo word, Taysha, meaning "friend"

And probably referring to the country around Caddo lands that were filled with the táyshaʼ (/tʼajʃaʔ/) they could trade with peacefully. But who were the Caddo nation? They were the genocidal maniacs who stole this country and drove the original inhabitants of the Clovis Culture from the so-called "land of friends." No so friendly! I'm appalled... APPALLED!!... that we'd name our state after the perpetuators of a vile and pervasive ethnic cleansing!! If we don't rename our state and universities after the only legitimate inhabitants, we are literally worse than Hitlers!!!

[pnwmom]

14. The Confederate generals waged war against the US. Francisco didn't. n/t

[marble falls]

16. Curiously: where do you live? Me, I live in Marble Falls, Tx.

[pnwmom]

17. Washington. And, no, we're not going to change the name to suit

some loonies in SF.

[marble falls]

22. They aren't loonies. The museums are filled with the remains of monuments. They get put up ...

... they get taken down for all kinds of reasons from urban renewal to civil war. Personally I just don't get "monuments" past the art. When the painting or vase in my house gets tiresome, down it goes.

Can you imagine being a Kosovar in Kosovo with thousands of Serbian monuments in a country with hardly any Serbians living there?

And like you pointed out, it's up to San Franciscans to decide what to do with public/civil art/monuments.

[pnwmom]

87. This just fits every stereotype there is about SF people. nt

[Traildogbob]

29. So

I am thinking there will “not” be Trump, Cruz and Hawley statues anytime soon. Except in Bama Georgia, Florida, South Dakota to name a few. Hell, Georgia will have trump kissing Qannon Queen Green carved into Stone Mountain.
Trump wins 2024, the Defense Act will be revved up to produce his statues and other hero’s of the insurrection. Trump university, ha! It will be Trump HS1 trump HS2 etc. nation wide.
Sooo much stupid, more contagious than anything Covid will ever throw at us.

[marble falls]

64. I'm thinking Michigan might have it's share of Trump memorials. Indiana. Southern Ohio ...

... anywhere in Indiana, anywhere south of Chicago in Illinois, anywhere between the 'Burgh' and Philly in Pennsylvania, .....


I think Joe Biden is right: there are no Blue and Red states, just Blue and Red counties.

[Traildogbob]

66. Agree

[The Mouth]

93. We should have kept every one of them

But added them carrying a white flag and a plaque that says "LOSER"

[Turin_C3PO]

28. Not even close to the same thing.

Confederates were actual traitors to our country.

[oasis]

4. Abe Lincoln?

[pandr32]

18. I know--right!???

Facepalming with you.

[sarge43]

20. Say what?

[DBoon]

46. He had a terrible record with Native Americans

The Emancipation Proclamation was in many ways a tremendous step forward for human rights, but it didn’t bring any new rights to Native Americans.

In fact, Abraham Lincoln is not seen as much of a hero at all among many American Indian tribes and Native peoples of the United States, as the majority of his policies proved to be detrimental to them. For instance, the Homestead Act and the Pacific Railway Act of 1862 helped precipitate the construction of the transcontinental railroad, which led to the significant loss of land and natural resources, as well as the loss of lifestyle and culture, for many tribal people. In addition, rampant corruption in the Indian Office, the precursor of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, continued unabated throughout Lincoln’s term and well beyond. In many cases, government-appointed Indian agents outright stole resources that were supposed to go to the tribes.

In other cases, the Lincoln administration simply continued to implement discriminatory and damaging policies, like placing Indians on reservations. Beginning in 1863, the Lincoln administration oversaw the removal of the Navajos and the Mescalero Apaches from the New Mexico Territory, forcing the Navajo to march 450 miles to Bosque Redondo—a brutal journey. Eventually, more than 2,000 died before a treaty was signed.

Several massacres of Indians also occurred under Lincoln’s watch. For example, the Dakota War in Minnesota in 1862 led to the hanging of thirty-eight Indian men—303 Indian men had been sentenced to hang, but the others were spared by Lincoln’s pardon. The Sand Creek Massacre in southeastern Colorado in 1864 also resulted in the deaths of hundreds of Cheyenne and Arapaho.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/janfeb-2013/lincoln-no-hero-to-native-americans/

[sarge43]

48. Point taked.

Thank you for the reality check.

[Takket]

106. wow. if only lincoln had never been elected, right? Things would have turned out much

better for the country.

[DBoon]

107. Personally i think he should be honored the ending slavery and keeping the union together

All heroes have their flaws. Doesn't mean we can't honor the good they do

[Beartracks]

109. But was the school named for Lincoln because of his Native American policies?

Or was it named for him because of his other more obvious legacies?

------------------

[DBoon]

116. i think you answered that

I was giving a reason why some object to naming a school after Abe Lincoln

[Walleye]

5. Starting to wonder which side they are actually on

[walkingman]

6. For me you can't go too far when removing the racist stain from America. Good for SF

[marble falls]

8. Agree. Just because those names are cut in stone doesn't they can't be recut.

[LongtimeAZDem]

76. Your username is gender-biased and indicates an unconcious dislke for those who drive

/s

[LeftInTX]

83. LOL!!!!!

[walkingman]

118. Black people were no different in Washington and Jefferson's day than they are today. I make no

apology for saying that racism in any era is not acceptable. There is not harm in admitting our mistakes and we need to do it as often as possible.

[Stallion]

13. Its Great as Long as You Don't want to win Any More Elections

its ridiculously asinine otherwise to erase the founding fathers of the country and failing to view their actions in historical context. I'd vote every one of these idiots out if I had a chance

[marble falls]

25. Why do you feel the need to "correct" SFers?

[Cozmo]

32. Damn straight! Some of the best years of my life were lived in San Francisco

It's a city of diversity, high ideals and beautiful people. San Francisco doesn't stand in judgement of you, why judge San Francisco?

[marylandblue]

33. Probably for the same reason you need to "defend" them.

[marble falls]

45. I defend everyones right to get rid of a statue. Or keep it.

[pnwmom]

15. San Francisco has just proved every extremist stereotype. nt

[deurbano]

53. It's our school board, which was not elected to take advantage of a pandemic to ram this through.

Mayor Breed asked them to drop this, but here we are. It's ridiculous and will lose money for these very schools (IMHO), which are underfunded and need to hit up alums to fill in the gaps. They're planning to rename Lowell High School, the one all three of my children attended, too. There is no urgent need to rename all these schools at this particular moment. The emergency is the pandemic, which they are opportunistically using to manufacture a stupid agenda the rightwing echo machine will use to say, "See, we told you. They just want to tear it all down."

[bluecollar2]

115. I graduated from Lowell...class of 75

This issue is very complex...

[deurbano]

117. My older daughter graduated in 1991, my son in 2016, and my younger daughter in 2000.

(I was a teenaged knocked up mother, then a geezer IVF mother, then a geezer adoptive mother.) The issue is very complex, which is why I don't think it should be rammed through at a time when there are much more urgently pressing issues. And all these schools at once?!

[Nitram]

19. This is why it's so easy to tar all liberals with the "stupid" label. Because of a select few who

just can't help themselves.

[rockfordfile]

97. I agree to a point

[walkingman]

101. If it came down to choosing, I'd take a liberal over a conservative any day. I find most

conservatives to be self-righteous or holier-than-thou. Just not my cup of tea.

[Paladin]

23. San Francisco has provided the radical right with a gift.

The Proud Boys and assorted Fox "News" guests will be spewing about those school name changes for years to come. Abraham Lincoln? Paul Revere? Puh-leese.....

[Stallion]

26. I'd Like to See the Democratic Party Proactively Condemn the SF Board of (Non) Education

at least with regard to Lincoln, Jefferson and Washington. I'd ask for their resignations as well

I'm tired of being painted with the same brush as lunatics

[Turin_C3PO]

27. How stupid.

This is going to be used by RWNJs to paint all liberals as loons.

[Mr. Evil]

30. Personally, I really don't care what name a school has or is given.

I care about what goes on inside the building. Which should be true, fact based, world class education. If a school has to be named for a human let it be of someone that has dedicated their lives to education and has given as much to their community as they possible could.

[pnwmom]

120. A school district that is already short of money shouldn't waste a huge amount of money

ramming through all these changes, without having the community on board.

[still_one]

31. Do these idiots even know what Feinstein did as Mayor of SF? I doubt it. She led the city

through probably the worst time in its history. The assassination of George Moscone, the People's Temple tragedy, and the impact of AIDS at its peak. In fact she led the way in procuring money to fight the AIDS pandemic while reagan was cutting money and resources to fight it, and pushing mayors throughout the country to unite against the AIDS pandemic.

This is the SF Board of education? Maybe they should educate themselves regarding the history of the city.

I suggest they read Season of the Witch: Enchantment, Terror, and Deliverance in the City of Love
Season of the Witch: Enchantment, Terror, and Deliverance in the City of Love by David Talbot

[Cozmo]

35. Yeah, well for whatever reason, Feinstein is fucking up now, big time

Please do not assume that the people of the city or the city council are not aware of this city's history.

[still_one]

40. What she did for the city speaks volumes about their ignorance.

As for you claim that she is f**king up big time, you do realize she voted against Barret, Kavanaugh, and has been voting right on 95+% of the issues, so that nonesense about how she is "fucking up big time", does not resonate where it counts, and that is how she votes

[Cozmo]

49. She did a lot for SF, I totally agree, she has been a bastion of hope for so many years, but,

She did not put forth her best during the Barrett hearing when she blathered foolishly to Lindsay Graham and hugged that POS. Did you actually think that was OK? Her vote doesn't come from the goodness of her heart, that's not how the Senate works. This was not the first indication that Feinstein's heart and soul aren't up to the challenge anymore and that's a very tough pill to swallow. Unfortunately Senator Feinstein can't see the for the trees. She is becoming a liability, who knows what will happen next? And yeah, I'm pissed. For the good of the party and possibly for herself, I think she needs to get out quick and make way for another qualified, female, California democrat. Please do not presume that those who have differing opinions than your's are not aware.

[still_one]

56. As long as she votes the right way I have no problem with that for the time being. Whether she

runs or not in the next election, regardless of the fact that she has filed papers to run, I do not believe she will be our next Senator, though because of our crazy jungle primary I guess anything can happen. I think there was over 30 people running for Senate in the last primary. That is just plain nuts, and actually hurts it for possible viable challengers because they split up the vote

This is a discussion board, and we all express our opinions, and "presumptions". Most on the SF board of education are quite young, and I am skeptical that they are aware of Feinstein's contribution to the City of San Francisco.

The gesture of removing Feinstein's name from a public school, is trying to remove her contribution to the city, and that is a simply wrong

[malchickiwick]

34. Both Washington & Jefferson knew chattel slavery was wrong yet owned human beings by the 100s.

I have no problem there. When one learns how both of these enslavers mistreated their human property, it's clear they were amoral and advocates of white supremacy. I have no problem removing their names from places we send children to learn.

Lincoln, on the other hand, is an example of a leader who envisioned a country with equality under the law and without a racial caste system. I vote we name more schools after Lincoln.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

51. "Lincoln, on the other hand, is an example of a leader who envisioned a country with equality ... "

Last edited Thu Jan 28, 2021, 01:32 PM - Edit history (1)

Not at first. It is fair to say that his views evolved over time.

Lincoln's Evolving Thoughts On Slavery, And Freedom

October 11, 2010 12:11 PM ET

{snip}

But like many Americans, Lincoln was unsure what to do once slavery ended.

"Lincoln said during the Civil War that he had always seen slavery as unjust. He said he couldn't remember when he didn't think that way — and there's no reason to doubt the accuracy or sincerity of that statement," explains historian Eric Foner. "The problem arises with the next question: What do you do with slavery, given that it's unjust? Lincoln took a very long time to try to figure out exactly what steps ought to be taken."

Foner traces the evolution of Lincoln's thoughts on slavery in The Fiery Trial: Abraham Lincoln and American Slavery. He explains how Lincoln's changing thoughts about slavery — and the role of freed slaves — mirrored America's own transformation.

{snip}

I am not a Lincoln scholar. I particularly drew upon Eric Foner, as his name came up recently at Kevin Kruse's Twitter account in a favorable way.

So should we have a "Lincoln After 1863, But Not The One Before That High School"?

The point is that if you're trying to look at people as either all good or all evil, you're going to have a hard time naming a school after anyone.

[jalan48]

36. SF has way bigger problems than school names. How about clean the city up first?

[Cozmo]

38. Of all the cities in this country and the RW horrors that exist embedded with city governments

DU is spending all this time clutching it's pearls over San Francisco?

[still_one]

42. This is just one thread which will be mostly forgotten by tomorrow. Your assessment regarding the

RW and republican threat against our Democracy is correct, and where our focus must be

[marble falls]

47. It's what we do. But I do not get it.

[deurbano]

57. We should be focused on making Washington, DC a state, not on renaming anything named after our 1st

president. I live in SF, and my youngest daughter graduated last spring (with no actual ceremony, of course) from a high school (Lowell) they want to rename. Renaming schools should involve a deliberative process, with lots of public feedback. The school board is ramming this through during a pandemic (while objecting community members-- the majority, I believe-- are in lock-down), even though the Mayor and others have asked them to focus on other more urgent priorities.

[moose65]

70. Apparently we won't be able to call it "Washington"

Good gosh. We just won the Presidency and both houses of Congress, and now we have to deal with this baloney?

The right wing pearl clutchers will eat this shit up. We will hear about it for the next 4 years.

[pnwmom]

121. There is already a state called Washington. That's a good enough reason

to call the district something else -- like Columbia.

Though the purity police would probably have a problem with that, too.

[moose65]

124. Yeah, I know

We already have Washington as a state (at least for now, amirite??), so either the new state keeps its "Washington, DC" name, or gets renamed as something else.

"Columbia," you say? You mean after Columbus?? I don't think we can have that, either!

[zentrum]

44. This is about teaching the truth

….of our history. Washington with his 400 slaves etc.

Once you start doing that, kids will feel ashamed or highly confused about why they go to a school named after this person.

The supremacy that spawns this hagiography has got to stop. Tell the truth.

The names will not even feel natural, once the history is taught.

[RobinA]

54. The Truth

is, Washington was a major founder of this country. If you cancel him and every other rich white guy slaveowner who founded this country, you got nothing. When you have nothing, people fill in the void with a lot of magical BS. Next thing you know you no longer have a fact-based culture. Better we should teach kids, and learn ourselves, that the world is shades of gray and how to process those grays.

[Calista241]

77. Hear hear!

[zentrum]

134. 400 Slaves is

…….not shades of gray.

It's an ugly truth. Can always convey his full character (the leadership) but the, ahem,"white washed" worship is better off ended.

[Bucky]

80. No, you'll teach them that people are complicated and that even your core assumptions can be wrong

Kids aren't going to "feel ashamed or highly confused" about why their school is named after George Washington. Ask any kid from Seattle.

As a lifelong teacher I can assure you that kids can learn to understand that heroes have flaws, that human development is complicated, that understanding our full history is more important than hollow displays of a self-presumed superiority.

[ancianita]

122. "Once history is taught" you'll have to cancel presidents from the Continental Congress to Grant

because they were racists who stole, or allowed the stealing of, American Indian land while making and breaking "treaties" with tribes at will. Not to mention all the genocidal battles against them.

Or is this only about advocating incremental public erasure, one city at a time.

[Hekate]

52. Okay, now we've gone off the edge

[BusyBeingBest]

62. Stupid shit.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

67. As long as we're at it ...

Not only should Harriet Tubman be on the $20 it's time to take FDR off the dime and replace him with Fred Korematsu, a welder who challenged the federal government's internment of Americans of Japanese ancestry.

Link to tweet

[LiberalFighter]

68. Does that mean getting rid of the Star Spangled Banner too?

[moose65]

71. Here's a question...

Who, in this country's history, was "perfect" enough to have schools and other things named after him or her? All human beings have some flaws.

Washington and Jefferson were slave owners. That's a sad fact of history. They were also involved in the founding of this country, as were many other men and women who were probably white supremacists and slave owners. Should we erase from history EVERYONE who owned slaves?

Or maybe we should stop naming schools and post offices and highways after ANY human being.

[marie999]

72. I love listening to Wilhelm Richard Wagner.

Should I stop listening to his works? My elementary school was named after William Lloyd Garrison.

[The Mouth]

73. Good point

This is PC gone *WAY* too far.

[jg10003]

75. This is what gives political correctness a bad name.

[Bucky]

78. I don't even want to call this "PC". It's nihilism

Look at Cesar Chavez's stance on immigration. If you can support naming schools and boulevards after him if you hate young American DREAMers having a path to citizenship.

https://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/Politics/cesar-chavezs-complex-history-immigration/story?id=19083496

For a significant period of his storied career as a labor organizer, Cesar Chavez opposed illegal immigration.

He encouraged union members to join "wet lines" along the Arizona-Mexico border to prevent undocumented immigrants from crossing into the U.S. He accused immigration agents at the border of letting in undocumented immigrants to undermine the labor efforts of Latino farmworkers.

{on edit}

Of course it's their schools. They can do anything with their names that they want. But they're being myopic and stupid. American heroes and noteworthy, like Chavez, Washington, Lincoln (I'm still wrapping my head around that one), Jefferson, were flawed human beings. They're part of the story of humanity gradually expanding the boundaries of human liberty.

The historical ignorance is hysterical (in both senses) as well and mind-numbing. This is the same "reductio ad absurdumb" that led the Red Hats to storming the Capitol building. Let's just ignore the contributions of the polygamist Moses, the serial aldulterers MLK & JFK, the labor hero Samuel Gompers with his intimate ties to the cancer spreading tobacco industry, Woody Guthrie celebrating the theft of this land from Native Americans with his Stalinistic "This Land is Your Land"...

[Behind the Aegis]

79. Absurd, but of so predictable.

A worthwhile goal, political correctness, taking to an extreme. I am sure many people saw a move like this coming.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

85. Works for me.

[PatrickforO]

88. Mixed feelings. Easy for the pendulum to swing too far either way.

We will see what kind of blowback they get.

I suppose I am neutral about renaming the schools - New York's system of PS# is fine. The thing I am not neutral about at all is a thorough treatment of the history, good, bad and ugly, of each of these seminal figures in American history. We also need to bring in notable Native Americans, African Americans, and Hispanic people. I would also include labor heroes. Who, for instance can tell us all about Eugene Debs? Indeed, the labor movement, and the history of unions has largely been left out of our 'official' histories.

We need to write a TRUE history, not one colored by some ideology. But a real one. As I say, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Our kids have the right to know all of that. I know that, speaking personally, I never really 'got it' in terms of history until I read Howard Zinn's People's History of the United States. That is the real deal, and that is what I am talking about.

Oh, and let's get rid of 'creationism' in schools as well. That is ridiculous - when we look at science and force teachers to present biblical theories side by side with physics, and life sciences, we are doing our children and grandchildren a profound disservice.

History (Herstory) is a gritty thing, and should not be confined to wars, and governments. It needs also to address what the everyday experience of people was.

[empedocles]

89. rw media will crank up 'S.F. Democrat Pelosi'

[Peacetrain]

91. Well isn't that just special

[appalachiablue]

94. No Washington, DC, Washington state and more.

What a gift for the hard right and political suicide now, the media drumbeat will continue for years. Al Franken must be shaking his head.

[grobertj]

95. That's just plain STUPID!!! This is exactly the type of BS that

the trumpeters will wrap around our neck!

[infullview]

100. +1

[ChazII]

96. Tonto Elementary is where

Last edited Thu Jan 28, 2021, 06:29 PM - Edit history (1)

I attended grade school. The elementary schools built in Scottsdale Unified School District were named after Indian tribes.
I did my special ed student teaching at Tonalea Elementary Elementary, my son attended Pima Elementary and finally before covid hit I volunteered in the reading program at Navajo Elementary.

Edited for spelling errors.

[sakabatou]

102. Stupid

[Yavin4]

103. Why not Joe Montana elementary school?

Or better yet, Bill Walsh High school. Bill Walsh is the founding father of the modern day NFL. Andy Reid is an example of his Walsh's continuing influence on the game.

[electric_blue68]

104. Keep the names AND Teach Full American History!

They're our founding fathers for goodness sakes. Teach their flaws, and horrible actions, as well as the good, and courageous. Lincoln was crucial, too, flawed as he was.

Teach our history - the great, the good, the so-so,
the terrible, the horrific, the hienious.

And a to San Francisco!
Visited decades ago. Loved it!

[grobertj]

105. +1

[Takket]

108. thank you for your well reasoned post.

[electric_blue68]

126. Awww, thanks

[ancianita]

123. This is exactly what today's best historian, Jill Lepore, says. Teach the whole truth and

how complicated our sins and greats are in making a "more perfect union."

[electric_blue68]

125. 👍 I've heard her on my local public radio station

[ancianita]

127. Interesting. I've read all her books, including one on how historians have felt about how

US history has been framed, and how to revise our history.

[electric_blue68]

128. Ah...

that sounds interesting - historians talking about how US History has been framed, and how to revise it.

I'll have to look that up. Maybe I can get our library to offer it as an e-book. 👍

[ancianita]

129. Her short one,

less than 100 pgs on historians' issues, is out in paperback soon.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61Xsj+pcfyL.jpg

[electric_blue68]

130. Ooooo, thanks! 😁👍

[Dawson Leery]

110. Beyond stupid.

[Beartracks]

111. Well. This is stupid.

Was the naming of schools after Lincoln, Jefferson, Washington, or Feinstein intended to honor their shortcomings and foibles, or honor their aspects of greatness -- those parts of their legacies that moved this country forward?

Schools named for General Robert E. Lee specifically seek to honor his role as a Confederate leader -- do we even know Lee for anything else? -- so HIS name and statues can come down from their places of honor because his legacy is specifically one of acting against this country moving forward.

==============

[christx30]

112. We had a street in Austin called Manchaca.

Everyone has been calling it Manshack for my entire life (45 years). Recently a small group of people took it upon themselves to lobby for the city council to change it to Menchaca. Everyone thought it was stupid. Businesses would have to change mailing addresses, it was a huge thing. We didn’t get to vote on it. It just kind of happened. It’s a good long road. Runs about 14 miles.
But I’ll never call it Menchaca. It’ll always be Manshack. From now until I die.

[tclambert]

113. I figured it was just a matter of time before they start selling naming rights to corporations.

Exxon-Mobil Middle School. Goldman Sachs High School. Amazon.com Elementary School. Google Pre-school. (Actually, that last one sounds kinda right.)

[ucrdem]

114. Zuckerberg High.

And that's exactly where this fumduckery is going is going.

[orleans]

119. suggestion: name the schools after species that have gone extinct

example:
dodo public school
golden toad public school
etc

[brooklynite]

132. Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson say "thank you"...

Program content for the next week.

[Raine]

135. Stupid, idiotic, ridiculous and ignorant! 👎

Just when I think can't I get more disgusted something like this comes along!!!

[mahatmakanejeeves]

136. Good lord, all this word salad. This is a person who oversees education, and she talks in this ...

Dave Weigel Retweeted

Good lord, all this word salad. This is a person who oversees education, and she talks in this completely absurd manner. It’s anti-communication.

Link to tweet

Q. & A.

How San Francisco Renamed Its Schools

By Isaac Chotiner
February 6, 2021

Last month, San Francisco’s Board of Education voted, 6–1, to change the names of forty-four schools, including schools named after Abraham Lincoln and George Washington. A committee formed by the board in 2018, in the wake of the white-supremacist rally in Charlottesville, had determined that any figures who “engaged in the subjugation and enslavement of human beings; or who oppressed women, inhibiting societal progress; or whose actions led to genocide; or who otherwise significantly diminished the opportunities of those amongst us to the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness,” should no longer have schools named after them and had recommended which names should be changed. Washington’s name was struck because he held slaves, Lincoln’s because of his policies toward Native Americans. Senator Dianne Feinstein’s name will be removed from a school, owing to the decision, when she was San Francisco’s mayor, in the nineteen-eighties, to replace a Confederate flag that was part of a Civic Center display and had been taken down by a protester. (A spokesperson for Feinstein said that the city’s parks department replaced the flag “on its own accord.” She later had it replaced with a Union flag.) Some of the committee’s recommendations have received more criticism than others: Paul Revere Elementary School will be renamed because of his role in the Penobscot Expedition of 1779, an assault on a British fort that the committee claimed, incorrectly, was intended to colonize the Penobscot people.

On Tuesday, I spoke with Gabriela López, the head of the San Francisco Board of Education, about the decision. López, thirty, is a teacher who was elected to the school board in 2018 and chosen as president by her colleagues. In the last several years, San Francisco schools have repeatedly landed in the national news. In October, the school board halted the selective-admissions process at Lowell High School, which is known for its academic strength and has markedly low numbers of Black and Latino students. On Wednesday, the city of San Francisco sued the school board and the district, claiming that they lack a plan to reopen schools. (The superintendent said at a news conference that the school board and the district “absolutely have a comprehensive plan” for reopening.) In my conversation with López, which has been edited for length and clarity, we discussed the controversies around reopening and renaming, including questions about how the committee made its judgments and how to view the legacies of complex historical figures.

{snip}

The reason I bring this up is that some of the historical reasoning behind these decisions has been contested—not so much how we should view the fact that George Washington was a founder of the country and a slave holder but, rather, factual things like Paul Revere’s name being removed for the Penobscot Expedition, which was not actually about the colonization of Native American lands. And so there were questions about whether historians should have been involved to check these things.

I see what you’re saying. So, for me, I guess it’s just the criteria was created to show if there were ties to these specific themes, right? White supremacy, racism, colonization, ties to slavery, the killing of indigenous people, or any symbols that embodied that. And the committee shared that these are the names that have these ties. And so, for me, at this moment, I have the understanding we have to do the teaching, but also I do agree that we shouldn’t have these ties, and this is a way of showing it.

I guess part of the problem is that the ties may not be what the committee said they were. That’s why I brought it up.

So then you go into discrediting the work that they’re doing, and the process that they put together in order to create this list. So when we begin to have these conversations, and we’re pointing to that, and we’re given the reasoning and they’re sharing why they made this choice and why they’re putting it out there, I don’t want to get into a process where we then discredit the work that this group has done.

But it seems like we should have some sense of whether what they did was historically correct or not. No?

I’m open for that conversation.

{snip}