HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Latest Breaking News (Forum) » USDA puts brakes on land ...

Mon Mar 1, 2021, 07:11 PM

USDA puts brakes on land transfer for Arizona copper mine

Source: Associated Press

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. (AP) ó The Biden administration is pulling back an environmental review that cleared the way for a parcel of federal land that Apaches consider sacred to be turned over for a massive copper mining operation in eastern Arizona.

The U.S. Department of Agriculture said Monday that it likely will take several months to further consult with Native American tribes and others about their concerns over Oak Flat and determine whether the environmental review fully complies with the law.

The agency cited President Joe Bidenís recent memo on strengthening relationships with tribal nations, and regularly consulting with them in a meaningful way.

Read more: https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-arizona-forests-financial-markets-1da6e5c9713fc85b824c80c6dac5b834

27 replies, 1584 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 27 replies Author Time Post
Reply USDA puts brakes on land transfer for Arizona copper mine (Original post)
ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2021 OP
ArizonaLib Mar 2021 #1
LastDemocratInSC Mar 2021 #8
ArizonaLib Mar 2021 #9
turbinetree Mar 2021 #2
niyad Mar 2021 #3
captain queeg Mar 2021 #4
Happy Hoosier Mar 2021 #16
Owl Mar 2021 #5
royable Mar 2021 #6
ArizonaLib Mar 2021 #10
MineralMan Mar 2021 #17
ArizonaLib Mar 2021 #21
MineralMan Mar 2021 #23
ArizonaLib Mar 2021 #24
MineralMan Mar 2021 #25
ArizonaLib Mar 2021 #26
CanonRay Mar 2021 #7
ArizonaLib Mar 2021 #11
royable Mar 2021 #12
Hortensis Mar 2021 #13
ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2021 #14
Hortensis Mar 2021 #15
ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2021 #18
Roisin Ni Fiachra Mar 2021 #19
Hortensis Mar 2021 #20
Roisin Ni Fiachra Mar 2021 #22
Hortensis Mar 2021 #27

Response to ForgoTheConsequence (Original post)

Mon Mar 1, 2021, 07:33 PM

1. Good! The copper mining companies have been polluting the water tables for generations

Lots of mining around that area from Superior to Miami to Claypool to Globe. Mountains of tailings surrounding those towns remain from decades of mining. The areas where surface mines remain have devastated everything in near every direction in the Miami/Globe area.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ArizonaLib (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 1, 2021, 11:13 PM

8. I have seen the lunar landscapes produced by copper mining.

Copper Hill, Tennessee. I saw it for the first time at 8 years of age. I was horrified. About 20 years ago I saw it again and felt the same way. Ugliness.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LastDemocratInSC (Reply #8)

Mon Mar 1, 2021, 11:43 PM

9. I know - it is disgusting

What is that land ever going to be good for? They all look like unfinished construction projects - like the NFL had stadium building jitters. Should have always been illegal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ForgoTheConsequence (Original post)

Mon Mar 1, 2021, 07:36 PM

2. yeah................

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ForgoTheConsequence (Original post)

Mon Mar 1, 2021, 08:15 PM

3. Yes!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ForgoTheConsequence (Original post)

Mon Mar 1, 2021, 08:17 PM

4. But jobs... that's always what they say to justify anything like this

You know the copper mine just wants to bring jobs for hard working Arizonans

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to captain queeg (Reply #4)

Tue Mar 2, 2021, 10:04 AM

16. There can be more jobs...

If companies are required to restore landscapes when a mine is exhausted.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ForgoTheConsequence (Original post)

Mon Mar 1, 2021, 09:40 PM

5. Good!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ForgoTheConsequence (Original post)

Mon Mar 1, 2021, 09:53 PM

6. Horah! Oak Flat is a completely unique and irreplaceable gem.

Now if the land transfer can just be cancelled entirely and Oak Flat given the protection it deserves.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to royable (Reply #6)

Mon Mar 1, 2021, 11:48 PM

10. Yes - if you walk up the top of the cliff (called Apache Leap)

on a clear enough day, you can see downtown Phoenix in the horizon. The public picnic area of Oak Flats is perfect for large families to spend the day there. It was my grandfather's favorite spot/area. Short drive from the Phoenix area and well worth it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ArizonaLib (Reply #10)

Tue Mar 2, 2021, 10:08 AM

17. I was born in Superior in 1945. My parents moved soon after,

but my mother's parents still lived there, so I visited Superior many, many times. Apache Leap was right there for viewing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #17)

Tue Mar 2, 2021, 12:20 PM

21. My dad grew up in Superior, my mom was born in Globe

Growing up, all of our Christmases at my grandparent's home were spent looking up at Apache Leap periodically to see for any signs of snow. Lots of disappointments, although every several years or so, it was there. The first time I ever played in snow deep enough to throw snowballs was at Oak Flats. First time I ever wandered off and got lost (for a scary hour or so) in the desert as a kid was up at Oak Flats. As much as it means to me, I can't imagine how much it means to the people who it has belonged to for millennia.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ArizonaLib (Reply #21)

Tue Mar 2, 2021, 01:28 PM

23. All of the times I visited Superior in the 50s and 60s, you could tell

when you were getting close from the smell of the Magma Mine smelter. It always smelled like sulfur in Superior.

The last time I went through there was in 1991. I didn't actually stop there, but drove my my grandparents old house. The downtown area didn't look so good.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #23)

Tue Mar 2, 2021, 01:45 PM

24. One thing about the water

The water always tasted nice and kind of sweet. My grandmother used to make excellent sun tea. On a recent visit the water tasted like regular tap water, and I remembered my grandmother's sun tea. So I asked my dad how she would make it. He said that you can't make it anymore. They found out that the water that tasted so good got its taste from additives designed to hide the polluted aspect of the water. The water now comes from a different source.

I heard a couple of decades ago that the downtown area was beginning to undergo a slow gentrification. I haven't been in the downtown area since I heard about that. The strip where that 'Burger King' (not associated with the international chain) on the US60 looks pretty much the same to me. I remember in the 70's there used to be a lot of cholos (I am hispanic) hanging out along that part of the highway, especially as you enter town from the west.

A while back I found a good YouTube dash cam video of the drive from Florence Junction through Superior. It was taken during the part of the year when there was a lot of green in the desert before the Gonzales Pass approach. Of course it was clear and sunny!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ArizonaLib (Reply #24)

Tue Mar 2, 2021, 01:53 PM

25. I wouldn't be surprised if it's turned into a suburb for Phoenix.

I doubt I'll ever go through there again. It's just not on the way to anywhere I'll be going.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #25)

Tue Mar 2, 2021, 01:59 PM

26. Yes, there's not much beyond that

There's good camping near Globe, but I do get out like that anymore.

Cheers!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ForgoTheConsequence (Original post)

Mon Mar 1, 2021, 09:55 PM

7. Give the land to the tribe.

They'll protect it better than the government

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 1, 2021, 11:51 PM

11. Talk about putting Native Americans in charge

They should be put in charge of deciding who belongs or doesn't belong in this country and should head immigration services. They should also hold a cabinet position and be put in charge of advising administrations on who heads Dept of Interior.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Reply #7)

Tue Mar 2, 2021, 05:33 AM

12. Giving the land to the tribe was actually what was in my mind

when I said to give it the protection it deserves.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to royable (Reply #12)

Tue Mar 2, 2021, 05:45 AM

13. What if they decided to monetize it?

There are reasons why federal is better at protection and far less corrupt than state and local, and the same for state and local over private. Right at the top of the list is that each level is farther away from "money for us."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hortensis (Reply #13)

Tue Mar 2, 2021, 06:18 AM

14. "they"?

?? c'mon now. it's the Apache people's sacred land.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ForgoTheConsequence (Reply #14)

Tue Mar 2, 2021, 06:48 AM

15. Well, the money in that land could transform the lives of many.

I just looked, as of 2010 over 64,000 people.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hortensis (Reply #15)

Tue Mar 2, 2021, 10:19 AM

18. That's their prerogative.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hortensis (Reply #15)

Tue Mar 2, 2021, 10:57 AM

19. Tragically, white people money and values have been transforming

the lives of Tribal Peoples on this continent, and elsewhere, for centuries.

The Apache will never destroy this sacred land for money, or anything else.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Roisin Ni Fiachra (Reply #19)

Tue Mar 2, 2021, 11:36 AM

20. Oh, I don't know that all the changes have been tragic.

We don't cut off the lips of particularly offensive liars and noses of adulterous women. (Or was it vice versa?) Not that all tribes were into mutilation certainly, but none do it now. And if someone did try to reinstate those old-timey values in his family, modern medicine would be able to rebuild their faces, so that's also kind of a nice thing.

Apparently, though, indigenous tribes mostly did get the idea of chattel slavery from us. Although other forms of slavery were normal in North Amerca before the advent of Europeans, the idea of selling their slaves as commodities really picked up once Europeans provided markets where captives from tribal warfare, unwanted whomevers, and escaped black slaves could be sold for money.

But as for being absolutely sure the tribe would never develop or extract from this land, give them a break. These are PEOPLE. Real people who think real-people thoughts, do real-people things, and have real-people needs. Like feeding and sending real kids to college, and other sacred duties.

Just for one reality, casino gambling is the single most successful source of income for tribes in general. The Apaches may not be as dependent on casinos as some other tribes are, but internet gambling is posing a real threat to the economic futures of those that are. What next?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hortensis (Reply #20)

Tue Mar 2, 2021, 01:00 PM

22. I live right down the road from an Apache rez.

You should come out here and tell the various tribes your ideas about their history, and what you think about native cultures, how they should feel about their sacred lands, and what you think they should do to them for money. Maybe recite your post, verbatim, to them, at a few Tribal Centers.

If you decide to do so, please let me know how that worked out for you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Roisin Ni Fiachra (Reply #22)

Tue Mar 2, 2021, 02:26 PM

27. I have and gave no opinions as to what they should or will do.

My pragmatic, unromanticized notions that all people are people may have distracted from what I did say.

But here's more of my viewpoint: Only real people get real respect.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread