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Polybius

(15,235 posts)
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 01:17 AM Mar 2021

Female Cuomo staffers say they were pressured to wear makeup, heels, and dresses to please the gover

Source: Business Insider

A slew of female aides to New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo say they were either explicitly told or felt pressured to wear makeup and dress up to please the governor and get ahead professionally.

Twelve women told The New York Times that there was a general understanding that they should wear heels, dresses, and makeup when in Cuomo's presence. More than a dozen women who've worked for Cuomo told New York Magazine that the governor and his top female aides applied heavy pressure to dress well and in expensive clothing. Some said they were specifically directed to wear heels when in the governor's presence. Several current and former aides in the governor's office told The Times that women who are tall, thin, and blonde were favored in the hiring process.

Another former aide named Kaitlin, who asked that her last name not be used, told New York Magazine that the governor would criticize her physical appearance if she came to work with wet hair or otherwise didn't meet his standards. She said he would tell her, "You decided not to get ready today?" or, "You didn't put makeup on today?"

One former staffer, Ana Liss, said an executive assistant to the governor told her, "When the governor is here, you need to look really good."

A current senior aide and two former staffers told The Times they believed they were passed over for certain professional opportunities because of how they dressed. Three former staffers said they had to dress the way Cuomo wanted if they desired special attention from the governor. Staffers who dressed according to Cuomo's code would be seated at desks in view of his office in the Capitol building, The Times reported.

Read more: https://www.businessinsider.com/female-cuomo-staffers-reportedly-told-to-wear-makeup-heels-dresses-2021-3

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Female Cuomo staffers say they were pressured to wear makeup, heels, and dresses to please the gover (Original Post) Polybius Mar 2021 OP
So he never told them but they all agreed and went along with it ? And this wasn't before the 1990s JI7 Mar 2021 #1
The NYT said they got these reports from both current and former employees. pnwmom Mar 2021 #2
And why did they go along with it ? Seems like they were all competing for his approval JI7 Mar 2021 #4
ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? Because they needed their damn jobs, pnwmom Mar 2021 #5
So they no longer need the jobs ? JI7 Mar 2021 #6
What are you saying? It sure sounds like victim blaming. pnwmom Mar 2021 #7
All of this shit happened in recent years. I have a problem with them all going along with the shit JI7 Mar 2021 #9
Guys seem to have no idea how common this is. If women didn't go along with it, pnwmom Mar 2021 #11
I'm not a guy. I am a woman and deal with shitty guys all the time JI7 Mar 2021 #15
It can take time to process abuse. Woman #7, for example. pnwmom Mar 2021 #19
Why doesn't the employee want to file a police report ? JI7 Mar 2021 #20
I would guess women don't want to file a police report Miguelito Loveless Mar 2021 #56
Are they claiming to have been victimized ? Because nothing I read JI7 Mar 2021 #57
As a victim of child sexual abuse who did not file a report Miguelito Loveless Mar 2021 #71
There were no claims of assault here JI7 Mar 2021 #78
Again, Miguelito Loveless Mar 2021 #84
Fondling a woman under her blouse, without her consent, IS assault. pnwmom Mar 2021 #108
I am so sorry this happened to you! n/t pnwmom Mar 2021 #107
Thank you for your kind words Miguelito Loveless Mar 2021 #112
I know a young woman who was molested. The scars are still with her. pnwmom Mar 2021 #113
Disparity in power due to age, Miguelito Loveless Mar 2021 #117
Thank you so much for sharing this. I hope you've opened some eyes with this post. pnwmom Mar 2021 #118
Then you must not think that it's victimizing an employee pnwmom Mar 2021 #106
Absolutely! Thank you for understanding. n/t pnwmom Mar 2021 #105
Most likely she doesn't want to be the center of attention, pnwmom Mar 2021 #104
Can we assume that? treestar Mar 2021 #120
Many people who have potential EEOC claims don't have the means and/or the inclination pnwmom Mar 2021 #121
They are saying something now Polybius Mar 2021 #21
I have a serious problem with them going along with this JI7 Mar 2021 #23
I have an equally serious problem... Random Boomer Mar 2021 #68
There culture here was supporting Cuomo JI7 Mar 2021 #79
And this attitude is precisely the reason Ms. Toad Mar 2021 #94
I don't see any harrassment here JI7 Mar 2021 #95
You need some training on what constitutes harassment, then. n/t Ms. Toad Mar 2021 #97
I already know JI7 Mar 2021 #98
Obviously, you don't. n/t Ms. Toad Mar 2021 #100
Yes I do. Women freely deciding to wear things is not harrassment JI7 Mar 2021 #101
I've written materials used in law schools to teach Title VII of the Civil Rights Act. Ms. Toad Mar 2021 #102
Thank you. I feel like I've been banging my head against a wall. pnwmom Mar 2021 #116
It's been extremely challenging here - Ms. Toad Mar 2021 #123
It's killing me, Ms. Toad. n/t pnwmom Mar 2021 #110
With them going along with this? You are providing a textbook example in victim blaming. pnwmom Mar 2021 #109
I worked w/ a male shift lead who would do standing pelvic thrusts near the heads of seated guys. moriah Mar 2021 #88
But this wasn't the same JI7 Mar 2021 #91
Wrong. There are multiple reports of Cuomo telling women how he wanted them to look. pnwmom Mar 2021 #111
Yes, this is victim blaiming Miguelito Loveless Mar 2021 #54
you're really off on the wrong track here stopdiggin Mar 2021 #8
I certainly would have shut it down by telling him to fuck off and wear heels and dye his hair blond JI7 Mar 2021 #10
Goodie goodie gum drops. Aren't you special. n/t pnwmom Mar 2021 #12
Yes, I certainly wouldn't have told other women to dress certain ways because some asshole likes it JI7 Mar 2021 #16
People don't "need" to stop making their points treestar Mar 2021 #122
I agree. pobably a better way of handling it. thanks. stopdiggin Mar 2021 #124
Then what is their problem. They Polly Hennessey Mar 2021 #36
No, one cannot always find another GOOD job -- especially if your abuser pnwmom Mar 2021 #115
Thank you pnwmom for fighting back against the victim blamers Cassidy Mar 2021 #43
+1 spooky3 Mar 2021 #67
Thank you, as well. Ms. Toad Mar 2021 #96
Thank you for your post. I feel like I'm swimming against the tide on this issue, pnwmom Mar 2021 #114
+1 million Budi Mar 2021 #31
Are you a female? This stuff happens to women ... secondwind Mar 2021 #44
Yes I'm a woman and I would not encourage that type of culture. I have with similar issues JI7 Mar 2021 #45
That it is still happening makes it worse, not better. n/t Ms. Toad Mar 2021 #99
Surely you are aware of the concept of "power differential"? Maybe you don't intend this, but artemisia1 Mar 2021 #92
What victims ? This article was women that decided to dress certain ways JI7 Mar 2021 #93
I don't understand... ahoysrcsm Mar 2021 #103
I worked at a bank with dress codes like that. LakeArenal Mar 2021 #3
My sister works at a bank. Her bank doesn't have a dress code pnwmom Mar 2021 #13
I use two banks and one has a dress code such as dress slacks and jackets for the men and the cstanleytech Mar 2021 #29
there ARE dress codes in lots of places stopdiggin Mar 2021 #14
All dress codes are at someone's demand. LakeArenal Mar 2021 #28
Generally the boss sets the dress code for every place where they are the boss. That is not exactly cstanleytech Mar 2021 #30
I think Heels are unreasonable . Dress shoes are not unreasonable and there are many styles JI7 Mar 2021 #34
"I think Heels are unreasonable." From a purely comfort level I agree with you as I have cstanleytech Mar 2021 #38
that's an over simplification stopdiggin Mar 2021 #47
Maybe I missed it but I do not see in the article where it said they should ""show a little fanny.". cstanleytech Mar 2021 #48
the 'fanny' line was an illustration of what ISN'T stopdiggin Mar 2021 #76
If the men were being asked to dress professionally in cstanleytech Mar 2021 #89
I would like to know if he made comments to men, too torius Mar 2021 #17
Wow Snackshack Mar 2021 #18
Do women have to wear heels at Delta? speak easy Mar 2021 #62
Flight attendants do, at least while going to the plane jmowreader Mar 2021 #90
Do male staffers feel they have to wear suits, ties, get haircuts, shave, have polished shoes? Midnight Writer Mar 2021 #22
THe "general understanding" was they were all about their own power JI7 Mar 2021 #24
Are you saying that a dress code for professional men would be bad? Grasswire2 Mar 2021 #25
There always has been one. elleng Mar 2021 #27
If the dress code required men to dress in ways intended to be spooky3 Mar 2021 #33
To be fair rules regarding what to wear for the workplace are not new and yes those can include cstanleytech Mar 2021 #26
Dearie, dearie me. There was a dress code in the State Governor's office? How ghastly... Hekate Mar 2021 #32
well said Grasswire2 Mar 2021 #35
If you read all of the NYT and New Yorker articles, I think spooky3 Mar 2021 #37
The New York Magazine article was also eye-opening. demmiblue Mar 2021 #74
Thanks for that link. Nt spooky3 Mar 2021 #75
Well true in that place of business though the whole spandex thing might well be a requirement cstanleytech Mar 2021 #39
Exactly. It's no surprise you can't wear shorts and flip flops Nixie Mar 2021 #58
Um, CORPORATE policy for a company I worked for in 2001-09 was only skirts for women crimycarny Mar 2021 #40
Dang, I hate to imagine how it feels to wear a dress when it gets that cold. cstanleytech Mar 2021 #42
This message was self-deleted by its author crimycarny Mar 2021 #41
I've heard my local weather girl comment bamagal62 Mar 2021 #46
"He deserves an investigation." An investigation is a must to find out if its true or if its not. cstanleytech Mar 2021 #49
If he did everything he was accused of spooky3 Mar 2021 #70
The fact that he's a crappy boss Sgent Mar 2021 #87
Due process is important. Fair is fair. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #50
Dress to impress remains good advice bucolic_frolic Mar 2021 #51
The piling on is making the original complaint fade into the background. Vinca Mar 2021 #52
Okay. True story time. I worked for a major tech company for 30 years. sinkingfeeling Mar 2021 #53
So he belongs on the Supreme Court like Kavanaugh? Freethinker65 Mar 2021 #55
This. Like I said, bamagal62 Mar 2021 #125
Glad there will be an investigation Karma13612 Mar 2021 #59
Jmho, but Cuomo is the kind of boss who Deminpenn Mar 2021 #60
Very good analysis Karma13612 Mar 2021 #61
Right there with you Deminpenn Mar 2021 #63
Yup!!.. nt Karma13612 Mar 2021 #65
It seems like Cuomo Turbineguy Mar 2021 #64
:-) I need one of those STFU angels sometimes! spooky3 Mar 2021 #66
Very Kavanaugh-esque. He had the same rules and preferences for female law clerks Blasphemer Mar 2021 #69
Cuomo's dress code for working in state capitol offices maliaSmith Mar 2021 #72
Welcome to DU!! StevieM Mar 2021 #73
Here is the problem, there is nothing where anyone says Cuomo JI7 Mar 2021 #86
Also this article doesn't say anything about Cuomo himself JI7 Mar 2021 #80
Hillary Clinton would probably have some things to say about that dress code (if it is true). demmiblue Mar 2021 #77
By the way, how's Gov Abbott doing with all his dead people? And Gov de Santis? Hekate Mar 2021 #81
Investigate, but it's not looking good. Joinfortmill Mar 2021 #82
If Cuomo were Republican twodogsbarking Mar 2021 #83
I remember someone on DU giving Kavanaugh the benefit of doubt Polybius Mar 2021 #126
Not going to take sides other than to say this: Aussie105 Mar 2021 #85
Everyone does that treestar Mar 2021 #119
+1 ancianita Mar 2021 #127

JI7

(89,172 posts)
1. So he never told them but they all agreed and went along with it ? And this wasn't before the 1990s
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 01:30 AM
Mar 2021

?

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
2. The NYT said they got these reports from both current and former employees.
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 01:37 AM
Mar 2021

Yes, the Governor told them. Did you read the excerpt?

"the governor would criticize her physical appearance if she came to work with wet hair or otherwise didn't meet his standards. She said he would tell her, "You decided not to get ready today?" or, "You didn't put makeup on today?"

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
5. ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? Because they needed their damn jobs,
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 01:40 AM
Mar 2021

and they needed a recommendation from him if they left their jobs.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
7. What are you saying? It sure sounds like victim blaming.
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 01:46 AM
Mar 2021

Most of them are speaking only anonymously, because they don't want to be the next Tara Reade or whatever. They don't want to be the woman who brought Cuomo down. They just want to live their lives.

JI7

(89,172 posts)
9. All of this shit happened in recent years. I have a problem with them all going along with the shit
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 01:58 AM
Mar 2021

they claim and not saying anything .

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
11. Guys seem to have no idea how common this is. If women didn't go along with it,
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 02:03 AM
Mar 2021

many would be risking their jobs.

But the fact that it's so common doesn't mean it's okay when a Governor does it.

JI7

(89,172 posts)
15. I'm not a guy. I am a woman and deal with shitty guys all the time
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 02:06 AM
Mar 2021

And I didn't say it's ok when the Governor does it. I'm saying it looks like they were ok with it and joined in that bs.

Similar to the people that went to work for Trump .

This didn't happen decades ago. It's in recent years .

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
19. It can take time to process abuse. Woman #7, for example.
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 02:10 AM
Mar 2021

She was in a group of his staffers, and they were all watching his appearance at a press conference, denying ever behaving inappropriately. And then woman #7 became "emotional" and a supervisor followed her and got her to explain why she was upset. And then out came the story of being fondled under her blouse, when they were alone together.

This happened at the end of last year and -- as with many victims -- she just bottled up the feelings. Until they came out.

And the supervisor filed the report, because the employee still doesn't want to.

Miguelito Loveless

(4,438 posts)
56. I would guess women don't want to file a police report
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 09:57 AM
Mar 2021

because they know they will be subject to the kind of victim-blaiming I am reading in your posts.

Miguelito Loveless

(4,438 posts)
71. As a victim of child sexual abuse who did not file a report
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 01:51 PM
Mar 2021

but was approached by the police after the fact and “persuaded” to file a report, I can tell you that the very last thing I would ever do if assaulted again is “file a report”. Your comments in this thread questioning the reliability/actions of the women, is VERY familiar to me, and I am male.

Miguelito Loveless

(4,438 posts)
84. Again,
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 05:48 PM
Mar 2021

the reason most people (especially women) do NOT report these things is because when they do they are treated this way. The more powerful the perpetrator, the more the victim can expect to be abused. Even with six victims coming forward, people are defending Cuomo. There are probably lots more, but they can see how those who go public are treated and have no desire to destroy their lives totally.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
108. Fondling a woman under her blouse, without her consent, IS assault.
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 02:13 AM
Mar 2021

According to the EEOC. Every heard of that organization?

Anita Hill has -- but it seems that many Democrats never learned the lessons of those hearings.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
113. I know a young woman who was molested. The scars are still with her.
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 02:23 AM
Mar 2021

And this happens to so many young people. How can anyone expect a young person trying to process past abuse to somehow stop a bully like Cuomo -- who controls her job?

I'm wondering if some of the women defending Cuomo here (by saying the woman should have stood up for herself -- like they did) are really in deep denial about the damage done to them.

Miguelito Loveless

(4,438 posts)
117. Disparity in power due to age,
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 03:26 AM
Mar 2021

trusted position, rank within an organization make people very uncertain of how to react, or whether they heard something correctly or not. Predators are very good at grooming victims, slowly encroaching on boundaries, until they compromise the victim, making them feel complicit. Gaslighting is very common. Police and DAs either view a victim as a troublemaker who is lying, or someone complicit who then got cold feet. Occasionally, we are a means to an end, a tool to advance their reputation.

In my case the predator (well respected local business man) got caught when someone stole his car, and the police who recovered it found a photo album full of naked boys. The DAs method of getting cooperation to build his case was to approach the mothers (he specialized in fatherless boys) and show them the pictures under the pretext that the son was being investigated and would be subject to arrest and prosecution for sexual deviancy. However, if the boy “cooperated” in helping prosecute, they would forgo charges. The DA saw the case as great for his career, and the victims were stepping stones to a well publicized take down of a prominent citizens.

I loath district attorneys. Prosecutors are generally people with aspirations to higher office, and they abuse their discretion to pad their win/loss ratio. While I would never say false allegations don’t occur, when you get a lot of victims with the same story, the same pattern of abuse, the same “MO”, the likelihood of a false accusation approaches zero.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
118. Thank you so much for sharing this. I hope you've opened some eyes with this post.
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 03:37 AM
Mar 2021

What the DA did was beyond despicable, and compounded the damage done to all the boys. In fact, it almost seems worse than what the predator did, because the predator was probably acting under some compulsion (and may as a boy have been a victim himself.) But the DA who lied to the mothers just cold-bloodedly used all of you.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
106. Then you must not think that it's victimizing an employee
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 02:11 AM
Mar 2021

to have her come to your house to fix your phone, then take her into a room with no witnesses, and stick your hand inside her blouse and fondle her.

You're wrong.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
104. Most likely she doesn't want to be the center of attention,
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 02:08 AM
Mar 2021

or the new face of the Me,too movement. Many people prefer to stay private.

And she also knows it would be almost impossible to prove anything happened in private.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
120. Can we assume that?
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 01:17 PM
Mar 2021

If he dared fire them for that reason, he'd have a lawsuit on his hands, EEOC claims - surely he is not that dumb.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
121. Many people who have potential EEOC claims don't have the means and/or the inclination
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 01:21 PM
Mar 2021

to pursue them. So the lack of a claim doesn't prove anything.

One of my relatives had such a claim, and didn't do anything. She had enough else going on in her life. But then someone else in her office filed a claim, and she had to get involved anyway.

Polybius

(15,235 posts)
21. They are saying something now
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 02:14 AM
Mar 2021

Sometimes all someone needs to speak out is for someone else to first.

Random Boomer

(4,159 posts)
68. I have an equally serious problem...
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 12:45 PM
Mar 2021

with a culture that supports and reinforces men like Cuomo, while blaming the women for trying to navigate these abuses of power.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
94. And this attitude is precisely the reason
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 12:26 AM
Mar 2021

that I cringed when a female doctor walked into the ER when I worked as a rape survivor's advocate. As a general rule, women doctors were far more judgmental about what the survivors did, wore, said, etc., or whether they called the police quickly enough, or were willing to make a report, etc.

I'm sad to see that this attitude that victims of harassment, abuse, or worse, must act in a certain way to be considered legitimate victims continues - especially among women.

JI7

(89,172 posts)
95. I don't see any harrassment here
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 12:30 AM
Mar 2021

It's women talking about and telling other women what they should wear.

I don't see anything about anyone being told by CUomo what to wear and being threatened they will lose their jobs if they don't do it .



JI7

(89,172 posts)
101. Yes I do. Women freely deciding to wear things is not harrassment
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 12:38 AM
Mar 2021

I see nothing where anyone ordered them to do it.

And if anyone did encourage it , it was other women.

I see nothing where anyone was fired for not dressing a certain way.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
102. I've written materials used in law schools to teach Title VII of the Civil Rights Act.
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 12:49 AM
Mar 2021

You're flat out wrong if you really believe that it matters whether there were formal orders as opposed to expectations that rewarded women for dressing in a sexualized manner (or subjected them to patronizing comments when they didn't), no one was fired, or that it was women passing on the expectations.

Not to mention that this is part and parcel of a larger pattern in Cuomo's office that created the hostile work environment that has now been described by at least a dozen women.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
123. It's been extremely challenging here -
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 02:35 PM
Mar 2021

It's been a win, at all cost - and if you challenge bad behavior by any Democrat you're accused of participating in a circular firing squad; and when there are direct victims they are accused of contributing to (or causing) the behavior - or of having forfeited any right to a safe, harassment-free workplace by not speaking (or not speaking up fast enough).

The behavior I have seen here recently as to women is almost indistinguishable from the rationale used by conservatives to blame Blacks for the continuing effect of racism (that was then, this is now, stop living in the past)

moriah

(8,311 posts)
88. I worked w/ a male shift lead who would do standing pelvic thrusts near the heads of seated guys.
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 07:17 PM
Mar 2021

He didn't do it to me -- we had an understanding and I think he knew I'd direct a very sharp elbow somewhere -- and the guys didn't say anything -- even to him, even though it made them mad/made them feel harassed.

I offered to go to HR so they could say they didn't initiate it, but they said no.

The reason for not wanting to try to talk to him directly about it was that they were afraid they'd hit him. The reason for not going to HR was that even though it was happening to multiple people and I was a witness, they were too uncomfortable discussing it and were afraid the company would just ignore it and then they'd deal with worse from him.

If guys don't feel comfortable reporting it when it happens to them. I can't blame women.

JI7

(89,172 posts)
91. But this wasn't the same
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 09:00 PM
Mar 2021

these are people talking about what they think Cuomo likes and doing things to appeal to that.

But nowhere does it say he told them to look that way.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
111. Wrong. There are multiple reports of Cuomo telling women how he wanted them to look.
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 02:17 AM
Mar 2021

This was in the OP.

And before you say anything, no, an employer cannot legally require women to wear makeup and not men.

"the governor would criticize her physical appearance if she came to work with wet hair or otherwise didn't meet his standards. She said he would tell her, "You decided not to get ready today?" or, "You didn't put makeup on today?"


https://www.businessinsider.com/female-cuomo-staffers-reportedly-told-to-wear-makeup-heels-dresses-2021-3

JI7

(89,172 posts)
10. I certainly would have shut it down by telling him to fuck off and wear heels and dye his hair blond
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 01:59 AM
Mar 2021

if he likes it so much.

JI7

(89,172 posts)
16. Yes, I certainly wouldn't have told other women to dress certain ways because some asshole likes it
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 02:07 AM
Mar 2021

And this was in recent years.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
122. People don't "need" to stop making their points
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 01:25 PM
Mar 2021

where do you get the idea you get to control the issues?

Just do a "wow, just wow" to show your amazement that anyone dare see anything differently.

stopdiggin

(11,089 posts)
124. I agree. pobably a better way of handling it. thanks.
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 03:02 PM
Mar 2021

I was also trying to warn the poster that they were in real danger of getting flagged for removal. Not necessarily by myself (not my general practice) -- but I've seen action taken on posts for far less.

As a reminder, the the post I responded to had this message:

"So they no longer need the jobs ?"

Which I still find utterly deplorable -- and WAY out of step.

But, for future reference, I can see the merit of your "Wow" or "Really?" suggestion.

Polly Hennessey

(6,745 posts)
36. Then what is their problem. They
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 03:06 AM
Mar 2021

made the choice to stay. One can always find another job or is this the only job they qualify for.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
115. No, one cannot always find another GOOD job -- especially if your abuser
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 02:28 AM
Mar 2021

retaliates by withholding a recommendation.

And did you ever hear of Anita Hill? The R's blamed her for following Clarence Thomas, her harasser, to a new job.

The Democrats THEN understood why she did that, and defended her.

Now, all of a sudden some have switched places with the R's, and are victim-blaming.

This is the definition of hypocrisy.

Cassidy

(200 posts)
43. Thank you pnwmom for fighting back against the victim blamers
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 03:42 AM
Mar 2021

I can't tell you how depressed I am getting reading these victim blaming comments on multiple threads. Too depressed to fight.

I hope there is a thorough investigation. I hope Cuomo doesn't resign. I want all this dirty linen aired thoroughly. I think the truth will be that he has created an environment of sexual harassment and has committed sexual harassment on multiple occasions. I just see too much of experiences I have been through in the descriptions the accusers are giving.

Just so depressing to see so much "why didn't these women slap him if he harassed them" on Democratic Underground. Like it's so easy.

Thank you for speaking out.

spooky3

(34,300 posts)
67. +1
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 12:38 PM
Mar 2021

And, they are ignoring the fact that sexual harassment is AGAINST THE LAW, because women shouldn’t have to work in a Catch 22 situation.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
96. Thank you, as well.
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 12:34 AM
Mar 2021

It has been pretty disgusting around here recently. It seems that all it takes is for women to say out loud that powerful Democratic men are acting like jerks to make victim blaming aceptable.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
114. Thank you for your post. I feel like I'm swimming against the tide on this issue,
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 02:27 AM
Mar 2021

and it strengthens me if it helps anyone like you!

My concern about the investigation is that it's unlikely to prove anything definitively, and Cuomo knows that. And he's making sure by refusing to step aside while the investigation is ongoing (even though the EEOC says that accused managers shouldn't be left in place supervising complainants and witnesses.)

JI7

(89,172 posts)
45. Yes I'm a woman and I would not encourage that type of culture. I have with similar issues
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 04:20 AM
Mar 2021

in the work place. This wasn't decades ago .

It happened in recent years .

artemisia1

(756 posts)
92. Surely you are aware of the concept of "power differential"? Maybe you don't intend this, but
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 11:17 PM
Mar 2021

this comes off as apologetics for Cuoma and victim blaming. Subordinates are not at fault when their superiors behave in an unprofessional manner.

JI7

(89,172 posts)
93. What victims ? This article was women that decided to dress certain ways
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 11:30 PM
Mar 2021

on their own because they thought someone liked it.

There was nothing about anyone firing or threatening to fire them if they didn't.

ahoysrcsm

(787 posts)
103. I don't understand...
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 01:44 AM
Mar 2021

I am required to wear a suit, tie, polished shoes, and well groomed for every scheduled meeting. During the rest of the week, its a dress shirt, tie, chinos, polished shoes, and well groomed. It's in the handbook I dress this way.

LakeArenal

(28,713 posts)
3. I worked at a bank with dress codes like that.
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 01:37 AM
Mar 2021

Female food service workers are required to wear men’s shirts.

TV news people dress the women in sleeveless sheath dresses in winter while men wear a full suit and tie, socks and flat shoes.

That’s why we need a full investigation.


pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
13. My sister works at a bank. Her bank doesn't have a dress code
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 02:05 AM
Mar 2021

that allows the bosses to put their hands on their employees.

cstanleytech

(26,080 posts)
29. I use two banks and one has a dress code such as dress slacks and jackets for the men and the
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 02:50 AM
Mar 2021

other bank is 100% casual dress.
Same goes for my brother's current employer (Publix) where they have a dress code but his prior one (Bi-Lo) was casual dress though 20+ years ago they had a stricter dress code.

stopdiggin

(11,089 posts)
14. there ARE dress codes in lots of places
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 02:06 AM
Mar 2021
THIS dress code would seem to be predicated on the personal preferences of the man at the top. And, if the Times story is to believed, related to other women, by women, in more or less exactly those terms.

And, yes, I am still in favor of a full investigation. Cuomo himself (or his support structure) decides if/when it is time to step down. Otherwise -- it's a job for the voters.

LakeArenal

(28,713 posts)
28. All dress codes are at someone's demand.
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 02:44 AM
Mar 2021

I just want Cuomo and the women to have their day in court. No matter how anyone dresses.

Face the accusers.

cstanleytech

(26,080 posts)
30. Generally the boss sets the dress code for every place where they are the boss. That is not exactly
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 02:54 AM
Mar 2021

something new nor is the dress code that is under discussion an unreasonable one.
Now unreasonable would be requiring the women to wear ultra revealing clothing and in such a place of business it could lead to a lawsuit.

JI7

(89,172 posts)
34. I think Heels are unreasonable . Dress shoes are not unreasonable and there are many styles
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 03:04 AM
Mar 2021

of women's shoes that are dress shoes and would fit in an office type work environment that are not heels.

cstanleytech

(26,080 posts)
38. "I think Heels are unreasonable." From a purely comfort level I agree with you as I have
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 03:18 AM
Mar 2021

heard that alot of women hate them.

stopdiggin

(11,089 posts)
47. that's an over simplification
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 05:28 AM
Mar 2021

lots of time a dress code is a 'culture' thing, and not necessarily the dictates or whim of a particular 'individual.' BUT -- (in the context of this discussion) asking one gender to "look pretty" - "wear make-up" - "wear dresses" is clearly asking them to assume a role (and serve a purpose?) other than 'professional.' Nobody is asking the males to adjust the cut of their trousers to "show a little fanny." (even if the fanny might be enviable)

cstanleytech

(26,080 posts)
48. Maybe I missed it but I do not see in the article where it said they should ""show a little fanny.".
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 06:15 AM
Mar 2021

A boss asking the employees dress to look good is acceptable and considering its a job where they are probably seeing and interacting with a number of powerful and influential people it kind of makes sense to put on a show of having your people look their best because impressions are important.

stopdiggin

(11,089 posts)
76. the 'fanny' line was an illustration of what ISN'T
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 03:48 PM
Mar 2021

done -- and why we would immediately see the "problem" if equivalent things were asked of men. The idea that women need to wear dresses (as opposed a smart pants suit) because -- "professional" .... (IMO) it's a ludicrous position -- and near indefensible. There's something going on here that doesn't have anything to do with 'smart' or 'professional' -- and it's being directed specifically at women. You don't want to see that -- that''s okay -- but you're marching to a different drummer.

cstanleytech

(26,080 posts)
89. If the men were being asked to dress professionally in
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 08:03 PM
Mar 2021

dress slacks with jackets then it is as close to being equivalent as it can be unless the requirement was that the men had to wear kilts which would be funny as hell.

Snackshack

(2,540 posts)
18. Wow
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 02:08 AM
Mar 2021

Good thing these ladies didn’t work for Delta, United, American or any others in the last century.

jmowreader

(50,447 posts)
90. Flight attendants do, at least while going to the plane
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 08:56 PM
Mar 2021
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/29/delta-air-lines-new-zac-posen-uniforms-will-go-with-shorter-heels.html

The current standard is one-half to three inches until they get to the aircraft. Once aboard, they can change to flats if desired.

I suspect their customer service people who are women are required to wear heels at all times. I fly quite a bit, and I've never seen a gate attendant, ticketing agent or other inside-the-terminal employee who WASN'T in heels. The ones who are men wear standard business shoes.

Midnight Writer

(21,540 posts)
22. Do male staffers feel they have to wear suits, ties, get haircuts, shave, have polished shoes?
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 02:21 AM
Mar 2021

If women tall, thin and blonde were favored in hiring, that should be easy to check out, maybe before publishing it.

This particular story seems to be reaching a bit.

A "general understanding"?

JI7

(89,172 posts)
24. THe "general understanding" was they were all about their own power
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 02:25 AM
Mar 2021

and getting what they could.

The whole thing reminds me of people that went to work for Trump and went along with this shit.

spooky3

(34,300 posts)
33. If the dress code required men to dress in ways intended to be
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 03:01 AM
Mar 2021

Sexy or attractive to women, then do you see the problem?

If the dress code required all employees to dress in suits and conservative hairstyles, accessories, etc., there would be no problem.

cstanleytech

(26,080 posts)
26. To be fair rules regarding what to wear for the workplace are not new and yes those can include
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 02:41 AM
Mar 2021

requiring women to do things like wear dresses and use makeup.

Hekate

(90,189 posts)
32. Dearie, dearie me. There was a dress code in the State Governor's office? How ghastly...
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 02:59 AM
Mar 2021

Now, if the issue was the “tall, thin, and blond” thing, I can understand why there might be a gripe. A really big gripe, based on EEOC guidelines.

But that’s not the forward-facing point based on what these women are saying. As long as the dress code wasn’t like: wear spandex mini-skirts and show lots of cleavage, what was the agony about? “Expensive”? Are we talking this season’s Coco Chanel here? Or are we talking about a career wardrobe thoughtfully acquired over several years of shopping seasonal sales, which is how I acquired mine back in the day.

What the actual fuck.

Grasswire2

(13,564 posts)
35. well said
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 03:04 AM
Mar 2021

And I can't help thinking of the OBVIOUS slavery to dress code for women in Trump's office orbit.

And *those* women do dress for his eyes and his taste. Daughter included.

spooky3

(34,300 posts)
37. If you read all of the NYT and New Yorker articles, I think
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 03:10 AM
Mar 2021

You’ll find the issues clearer. There are USSC cases involving women who were superior performers but weren’t promoted etc because they didn’t dress is traditionally sexy or attractive ways. (Eg, Price Waterhouse)

if women were expected to decorate the halls for Cuomo rather than dress professionally and do a good job, that can be part of a hostile environment. Or if women weren’t promoted, trained etc, unless they looked like little tootsies, that’s a Tangible Employment Action, and the state would be liable, generally.

cstanleytech

(26,080 posts)
39. Well true in that place of business though the whole spandex thing might well be a requirement
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 03:29 AM
Mar 2021

at a strip club though I could not say for certain about that as I have never been to one and never intend to be as I would honestly be to embarrassed to enter one.
Not to mention I imagine they are crowded as well as noisy both of which would trigger an instant vomit inducing migraine for me such as what happened when I was forced to attend a few pep rallies at school long ago.

Nixie

(16,919 posts)
58. Exactly. It's no surprise you can't wear shorts and flip flops
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 10:20 AM
Mar 2021

with wet hair everywhere. This is really a desperate pile-on, not just a pile-on.

crimycarny

(1,351 posts)
40. Um, CORPORATE policy for a company I worked for in 2001-09 was only skirts for women
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 03:36 AM
Mar 2021

It was CORPORATE policy that women could not wear pants and had to wear skirts as well as dress shoes. This was a large corporation. And I worked in the Midwest where the winters were pretty damm harsh.

Response to Polybius (Original post)

bamagal62

(3,218 posts)
46. I've heard my local weather girl comment
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 05:11 AM
Mar 2021

On what she has to wear for work. She has mentioned how she’s not allowed to eat donuts because she can’t fit into what they want her to wear. She is basically anorexic. And, I’m in Chicago. It’s everywhere. But, why the focus on Cuomo? That’s my big question. He may be an awful
Person. But, I still smell a rat. He deserves an investigation. I still think this is a roger stone tactic to be able to pardon trump
If they can win the Gov in 2022. They might be playing the long game. I still think the stink is strong.

cstanleytech

(26,080 posts)
49. "He deserves an investigation." An investigation is a must to find out if its true or if its not.
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 06:20 AM
Mar 2021

Granted its probably not illegal if it did what they said he did but it does not reflect well on the state and that can have an adverse impact on business deals the state might look at doing with someone to lure someone into investing there.
So in my opinion if the investigation determines he did it then he should do what is for the best for the state which might include resigning.

spooky3

(34,300 posts)
70. If he did everything he was accused of
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 01:25 PM
Mar 2021

(And there may be more incidents uncovered in an investigation), then at the very least, the incidents are “pervasive”, which would be enough to establish illegal hostile environment discrimination.

See the Faragher v Boca Raton case.

Sgent

(5,857 posts)
87. The fact that he's a crappy boss
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 07:09 PM
Mar 2021

with outdated dress expectations is something for the voters to decide on the next election. I'm more worried about criminal matters or sexual harrasment.

bucolic_frolic

(42,651 posts)
51. Dress to impress remains good advice
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 08:02 AM
Mar 2021

for the boss, for a job interview, for visits by important higher ups, for good interactions with customers.

No one is told to dress like a slob. Casual doesn't mean dress down. Few enjoy interacting with the world while unkempt.

Dress up for the boss? I'm not hearing a lot of there there.

Vinca

(50,168 posts)
52. The piling on is making the original complaint fade into the background.
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 08:26 AM
Mar 2021

All businesses have dress codes. If you want to wear jeans, work elsewhere.

sinkingfeeling

(51,274 posts)
53. Okay. True story time. I worked for a major tech company for 30 years.
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 09:44 AM
Mar 2021

There was a strict dress code for both men and women, who worked or were seen by customers.
After being in management for a number of years, I took a 'staff' position, as a step up the corporate ladder. Then there was a major reorganization of the entire non-manufacturing side.
I was called into my male manager's office and told a couple of things. First, I was told never to wear a matching skirt and blouse, made in a demin blue colored cotton, that had a western look (we were in Texas). Then, I was told that I didn't have the 'look' to continue in management under the new organization. My hair style wasn't right and I didn't wear enough makeup and, get this, I wasn't tall enough!
I was so embarrassed and went to the ladies' room and cried. I could hardly participate in meetings with my manager, whom I had considered a friend.
About six months later, I left management for good and took a technical position, stayed on another 12 years, and got my full retirement.
Never knew that was sexual harassment.

bamagal62

(3,218 posts)
125. This. Like I said,
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 10:41 PM
Mar 2021

Maybe he is a piece of shit like they are saying. But I’m tired of republicans getting a pass. I want an investigation and if it’s true then he should be gone. But he does deserve due process. With the Trump investigations, I worry and I want the real truth, not just conjecture. If it was me, I would want a real investigation. These days I don’t trust anyone.

Karma13612

(4,527 posts)
59. Glad there will be an investigation
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 10:21 AM
Mar 2021

But, I hope the investigation includes looking at the female aides that also encouraged and pressured the lower-level staffers to dress a certain way.

Female aides pressured staff as well. I hate this.

Why didn’t people go to HR? I understand that getting a job in the Gov’s office was a huge opportunity. But, if you don’t like something, SPEAK UP.

Many companies years ago expected women to ‘dress for success’. That included heels, proper dresses and makeup. Later we were allowed to wear business casual including slacks. We only had “Jeans Friday”.

But another huge point: I worked in a large international advertising agency in Stamford CT in the late 80’s to 2000. During that time, with workplace sexual harassment claims beginning to mount, our company had MANDATORY Sexual Harassment Awareness Seminars for all male staff. It was abundantly clear that the behaviour needed to change.

That was 30 years ago and Cuomo would have been in his 30’s. He should know better. I can’t believe we are still dealing with all this stuff.

But, I want an investigation. He should not be railroaded out.

Deminpenn

(15,246 posts)
60. Jmho, but Cuomo is the kind of boss who
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 10:33 AM
Mar 2021

Last edited Sat Mar 13, 2021, 11:43 AM - Edit history (1)

craves power and uses it to advantage. I think we've all either seen or experienced these kind of bosses. When I worked for DoD, I would occassionally hear a comment about an senior officer's wife "wearing the rank" more than the officer did, meaning she took her attitude and power over the wives of underlings from his rank and used it. I suspect this is what happened with the women who were close staff of Cuomo. They derived their power from him and used it on lower-ranking female staff.

Karma13612

(4,527 posts)
61. Very good analysis
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 10:54 AM
Mar 2021

I can definitely see this scenario.

But, since they are representing the Gov in managing lower level staff, then I want them held responsible. They don’t get to hide.

I am a 66 year old female who has also faced sexual harassment (minor) and age discrimination (major).

I want to believe the accusers, but they needed to speak up sooner than this.

A note to anyone who is being harassed: if you are too afraid to step forward now, then tell someone in private. Document it. Dates, times, etc. Notarize it. File it. You can’t wait years and years and then try to make it part of a current discourse with just vague accusations.

Better yet, come forward when it happens. With the #Metoo movement, you should be safer now.

Sorry, just on a rant right now.
Yea, Cuomo is a classic macho bully. But, put me in the “investigation before demonization” category.

Deminpenn

(15,246 posts)
63. Right there with you
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 11:48 AM
Mar 2021

People have different motivations for doing things. This is what an investigation can, hopefully, sort out.

But sometime women just need to fire back at bad male behavior right then and there. Once the women in my office suggested to our male colleagues who joked about a wet t-shirt contest at our annual office picnic that they'd go along if the men agreed to a wet boxers/briefs contest. They piped down pretty quick.

Turbineguy

(37,206 posts)
64. It seems like Cuomo
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 12:06 PM
Mar 2021

stopped listening to the STFU Angel on his shoulder.

They could have easily had a written dress code that applied to everybody.

Blasphemer

(3,261 posts)
69. Very Kavanaugh-esque. He had the same rules and preferences for female law clerks
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 01:08 PM
Mar 2021

If it wasn't acceptable for him, it's not acceptable for Cuomo.

maliaSmith

(80 posts)
72. Cuomo's dress code for working in state capitol offices
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 02:32 PM
Mar 2021

I worked for the Gov with a dress code. I wasn't offended.
What did the women want to wear? Levi's and sandals?
Gov had a right to require proper dress to work in the state's capital.
PS It's not sexual harassment either.

StevieM

(10,499 posts)
73. Welcome to DU!!
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 02:56 PM
Mar 2021

A dress code is one thing. But I don't think it is appropriate to ask female staffers to wear heels.

JI7

(89,172 posts)
86. Here is the problem, there is nothing where anyone says Cuomo
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 06:56 PM
Mar 2021

demanded or even asked women to wear heels.

All the quotes are other people talking about what he likes and women telling other women what to do.

JI7

(89,172 posts)
80. Also this article doesn't say anything about Cuomo himself
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 04:35 PM
Mar 2021

demanding it. It's all women telling others and claiming this is what he likes.

demmiblue

(36,742 posts)
77. Hillary Clinton would probably have some things to say about that dress code (if it is true).
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 03:58 PM
Mar 2021

Professional work outfits for women don't necessarily mean dresses/skirts and high heel shoes. What year are we in, FFS?!

Come to think of it, so would Kamala Harris... or any number of very successful women.

Just sayin'.

Hekate

(90,189 posts)
81. By the way, how's Gov Abbott doing with all his dead people? And Gov de Santis?
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 04:37 PM
Mar 2021

Asking for a friend.

Polybius

(15,235 posts)
126. I remember someone on DU giving Kavanaugh the benefit of doubt
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 11:11 PM
Mar 2021

He was ripped a new one here for saying he was only 17 and a minor, and asking why she waited 35 years to come forward.

Aussie105

(5,211 posts)
85. Not going to take sides other than to say this:
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 06:20 PM
Mar 2021

Receptionist at a big company?
Young and attractive female.
Smile and act interested, dear.

The person at the car dealership who does the after sale deals on 'extras'?
Young and attractive female.
Smile and act interested, dear.

Work in any company as a young female and want to get ahead?
Dress and present attractive.
Smile and act interested, dear.

Not saying it is right, but it's right throughout our, and other, societies.

Needless to say, 'female, young, attractive, dresses to impress' is NOT a sign they are 'available', and NOT permission to hit on them.
As some males seem to think.

Complex topic, yes?



treestar

(82,383 posts)
119. Everyone does that
Sun Mar 14, 2021, 01:16 PM
Mar 2021

How many advice articles on professional dress call for just that?

Come on, this is getting absurd.

And if it was from someone else, that's not on Cuomo.

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