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Tue Apr 13, 2021, 12:17 PM

IRS chief says U.S. annual 'tax gap' may exceed $1 trillion

Source: Reuters

U.S. MARKETS
APRIL 13, 2021 11:30 AM UPDATED AN HOUR AGO
By Reuters Staff 1 MIN READ

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Internal Revenue Service needs more and consistent funding to help close a “tax gap” that is leaving perhaps more than $1 trillion in legally owed taxes uncollected every year, IRS Commissioner Charles Rettig said on Tuesday.

Rettig told the Senate Finance Committee that new sources of wealth have arisen since 2011-2013, when the last official annual tax gap estimate of $441 billion was made, including cryptocurrencies and the rising use of complex, foreign-source income.

“If you add those in, I think it would not be outlandish, that the actual tax cap could approach, and possibly exceed $1 trillion” on an annual basis, Rettig said.

Reporting by David Lawder





Read more: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-treasury-irs/irs-chief-says-u-s-annual-tax-gap-may-exceed-1-trillion-idUSKBN2C0255?il=0



You think..........and to add to this some 54+ companies that paid zilch, nada, zero in taxes

22 replies, 1880 views

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Reply IRS chief says U.S. annual 'tax gap' may exceed $1 trillion (Original post)
turbinetree Apr 13 OP
RainCaster Apr 13 #1
RussBLib Apr 13 #6
Tree Lady Apr 16 #22
Midnight Writer Apr 13 #2
question everything Apr 13 #3
msongs Apr 13 #4
bucolic_frolic Apr 13 #5
oldsoftie Apr 13 #8
oldsoftie Apr 13 #7
DENVERPOPS Apr 13 #9
oldsoftie Apr 14 #11
DENVERPOPS Apr 14 #12
oldsoftie Apr 14 #13
DENVERPOPS Apr 14 #14
oldsoftie Apr 14 #16
DENVERPOPS Apr 15 #17
oldsoftie Apr 16 #21
rickyhall Apr 13 #10
DENVERPOPS Apr 14 #15
former9thward Apr 15 #18
rickyhall Apr 15 #19
DENVERPOPS Apr 15 #20

Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 01:05 PM

1. The solution is to clamp down on the little guy

Let's not bother the 1% with this problem.

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Response to RainCaster (Reply #1)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 05:02 PM

6. Sometimes it's hard to recognize satire

This is not one of those times.

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Response to RainCaster (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 16, 2021, 12:03 PM

22. They know we can't afford lawyers

And will pay rather than have wages attached.

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 01:43 PM

2. The IRS spent 20+ years just auditing Donald Trump. They definitely need more help.

The rich know they can get away with tax fraud, because the IRS doesn't have the manpower to audit tax returns that run thousands of pages.

We need to simplify tax laws, hire more enforcers, and put some real teeth into punishment for intentional tax fraud.

We would see massive returns at relative trivial cost.

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 01:59 PM

3. How many auditors and other employees can be hired by $1 trillion?

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 02:17 PM

4. one cancelled F 35 would likely pay for all the IRS staffing needs nt

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 03:40 PM

5. It began with Paperwork Reduction Act

Has paperwork ever been reduced? Every year it seems there are more lines, more calculations, more deductions. Trump fouled up the 1040, splitting into 6 pages, most of them 3/4 empty. There are worksheets. I found the Stim worksheet to be impossible. You calculate line 1,2,3 then on line 4 add in line 3a. There is no line 3a! They you calculate some more and put the result in line 20. When you get to line 20 you calculate line 20 again. Now you have 2 figures in line 20! Which do you use?

They told us IRAs would be simple. Then there were Roth IRAs for trust fund families. Then there were Roth conversions. Extra allowable contributions. Changes in minimum distributions.

They never simplify anything. They'd be better off to create a permanent oversight committee to simplify something every year. Even small sections would be advisable.

And you can't communicate with the IRS by email. You want electronic filing but you have to read 4 pages and 6 companies just to choose a method. THis is nuts.

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Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 05:29 PM

8. You're right. And they will never fix it. Regardless of who is in charge. nt

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 05:27 PM

7. Its likely more than that. Money you'll never get without a sales tax.

The IRS has a terrible time collecting taxes on income not associated with W2s or 1099s. Otherwise known as "stated income" earners. Of which there are millions & millions. And they can claim pretty much anything they want. I live in this world & I know how it works.
i would gladly pay a sales tax to see EVERYONE pay into the system as they spend their money. Send out a stimulus type check to low wage earners to offset their tax. Simple.
And it will never be done. Because you cant buy favors from Congress with sales tax revenue.

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 06:34 PM

9. Back in the HWBush regime

HW went to the head of the IRS and told him that he was getting a huge increase in his budget, and that he was to hire 1000 agents to investigate the majority of Income Tax Fraud that was occurring, mostly in the 15 to 25K income range.

The head of the IRS burst out laughing, and said: Give me the increase, and I will go after the 200K+ crowd because that is proven to be where the big fraud numbers and big fraud money is...........

HW gave him no increase.................that was 30 years ago, and the IRS's budget hasn't probably grown much at all.

I know several wealthy people, that for over a decade have their entire net worth hiding out in the Caiman Islands, making tons off their investments completely out of reach of the IRS. No Income Tax, No capital gains Tax, No alternative Tax.....zip, zero, nada.
And they just laugh about all us suckers...............

Of course the same is true for most U.S. corporations, off-shoring their companies profits in another country........with less regulations and far cheaper taxes........

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Response to DENVERPOPS (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 07:19 AM

11. But if we had a sales tax, they'd pay when that bought that Porsche.

Along with all the other high dollar designer BS that goes with that lifestyle.
Sales taxes work. Thats why pretty much every municipality asks voters for "a penny" every time they have a major project they want to complete. And voters usually approve them because they know EVERYBODY pays.
And why most other countries have one.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #11)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 02:42 PM

12. I believe if you had a higher sales tax

It would hit the middle class, and especially the lower class much harder than the wealthy and uber rich.

A 10% sales tax on earnings of 25K a year, would be harder, than a 10% sales tax on earnings of 250K or 10M a year.

I have friends in countries that have the so called flat sales tax. They say the rich love it, and that it creates a situation where the rest of the citizens with lesser incomes pay in reality for almost everything their government spends.
One friend says that the U.S. uber rich and just wealthy citizens would love it also. Not only would they only pay just a sales tax as their entire tax obligation, but it would eliminate the huge cost of the IRS, the ton of money they pay their tax accountants, and the ton of money they pay their tax lawyers......a win/win/win for all of them.....

The people here in the U.S. don't realize, that if a flat sales tax was created, their sales tax of 8-10% that they pay on purchases would be at a rate of 30-40% or more.

Over shadowing it all, is the fact that the rich legislators write the tax laws for themselves and all their uber rich supporters and donors to their campaigns. And they are extremely creative in writing in tax loop holes into every piece of legislation that solely benefit the rich and themselves.

Years ago, here in Colorado, we witnessed one of the scams that the rich did to avoid even the sales tax.
Colorado taxed an item, only if the person took delivery of the item within the state of Colorado. If the item was delivered to another state there was no sales tax.
There was a jeweler here in Denver, that purely catered to the wealthy.
The Uber would buy jewelry, watches, etc and this jeweler would ship an empty box to Wyoming and have the receipts for the shipping to show any tax auditors......
The Jeweler and the Uber rich got away with it for years and years. There were some really famous people here in Colorado and Denver who were utilizing this scheme and had for some time......

It is easier now, the wealthy and uber rich just offshore their money, their banking, and their credit cards and cry all the way to the bank.
Most interesting was that the tax people during the HWBUSH administration tried to subpoena the credit card statements from Visa and Master card (which were Headquartered here in the U.S.) for these peoples accounts being based in a country off shore. The legislators quickly shoved through legislation that declared it was private information, and that the IRS could not subpoena the account information from Visa or Master Card holders that was located in a different country.....
I am guessing that most of the larger corporations are holding their wealth in their branches in countries other than the U.S. even though the corporations headquarters is based here in the U.S. I can't remember in which country APPLE has their vast financial holdings located......

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Response to DENVERPOPS (Reply #12)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 03:12 PM

13. Most of Apples cash is in the Channel Island of Jersey. Where ever the hell THAT is.

These friends in the other countries; do those countries have free healthcare & the like? And do their countries have a high debt?

Also, I've said elsewhere, we could issue a stimulus-like check monthly equal to the tax you'd pay on that 25k.
And the higher rate you speak of would be totally doing away with the IRS. I'm not totally against that, but my main thing right now is just an additional sales tax along with the income tax.
The amount of money that goes untaxed is unreal. I live in that world and could tell you many stories.
There's just only so many ways a government can get revenue. NONE of them will be popular. We need a combination of different ways so that EVERYONE pays into the system. Focusing only on the super rich just wont cut it. There just arent enough of them

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #13)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 03:36 PM

14. One of my friends

and I sat down one night. We wrote down the ton of taxes we pay here in the U.S., on top of the income taxes.
Federal, State, local, sales taxes, taxes hidden as "fee"s. His point was that overall, we pay a lot more than we think we do.
AND, for the money they are taxed they get free medical, dental, etc, free schooling, etc etc etc.
His thinking was that we pay the taxes, and don't get much in return..............
You and I could discuss the other matters endlessly, probably agreeing on many points, but I am reminded of some famous quote back in the 1700's by some frenchman who stated: Democracy will work until some group figures out that they can vote themselves money.
Our recent history, these past forty years, has proven that to be an absolute fact. And voting on who is taxed and how much is the easiest way for that elite group to acquire a lot of their money and to keep increasing it....

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Response to DENVERPOPS (Reply #14)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 08:51 PM

16. You're correct. But many of those points dont go over well here.

I actually got a hide for posting that French quote!

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #16)

Thu Apr 15, 2021, 12:22 AM

17. YEA,

I have been spanked by DU several times. And I dared not even get into it with the "Censors"........

Our exchanges will probably get us censored for our back and forth on this topic.

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Response to DENVERPOPS (Reply #17)

Fri Apr 16, 2021, 07:07 AM

21. HA! Yes, it can be like living in a neighborhood with a ridiculous HOA

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 07:41 PM

10. They could legalize pot and move half of DEA to IRS. Just a thought.

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Response to rickyhall (Reply #10)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 03:38 PM

15. Yup

I think all drugs should be legalized and cheaper. We need something to chill and mellow the masses, considering what lies ahead....

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Response to rickyhall (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 15, 2021, 07:59 AM

18. There are only 6 states where pot is illegal.

The DEA does very little about weed currently.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #18)

Thu Apr 15, 2021, 10:07 AM

19. And the Fed

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Response to rickyhall (Reply #19)

Thu Apr 15, 2021, 02:43 PM

20. BINGO

and that is the ringer.............

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