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Mon May 3, 2021, 07:50 AM

Reaching 'Herd Immunity' Is Unlikely in the U.S., Experts Now Believe

Source: New York Times

Early in the pandemic, when vaccines for the coronavirus were still just a glimmer on the horizon, the term “herd immunity” came to signify the endgame: the point when enough Americans would be protected from the virus so we could be rid of the pathogen and reclaim our lives.

Now, more than half of adults in the United States have been inoculated with at least one dose of a vaccine. But daily vaccination rates are slipping, and there is widespread consensus among scientists and public health experts that the herd immunity threshold is not attainable — at least not in the foreseeable future, and perhaps not ever.

Instead, they are coming to the conclusion that rather than making a long-promised exit, the virus will most likely become a manageable threat that will continue to circulate in the United States for years to come, still causing hospitalizations and deaths but in much smaller numbers.

How much smaller is uncertain and depends in part on how much of the nation, and the world, becomes vaccinated and how the coronavirus evolves. It is already clear, however, that the virus is changing too quickly, new variants are spreading too easily and vaccination is proceeding too slowly for herd immunity to be within reach anytime soon.


Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/03/health/covid-heard-immunity-vaccine.html

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Reply Reaching 'Herd Immunity' Is Unlikely in the U.S., Experts Now Believe (Original post)
brooklynite May 2021 OP
Bernardo de La Paz May 2021 #1
BunnyMcGee May 2021 #2
2naSalit May 2021 #3
Botany May 2021 #7
COL Mustard May 2021 #40
Botany May 2021 #42
Marthe48 May 2021 #87
Bernardo de La Paz May 2021 #85
NurseJackie May 2021 #25
SuperCoder May 2021 #36
diverdownjt May 2021 #77
hueymahl May 2021 #38
SayitAintSo May 2021 #53
Bernardo de La Paz May 2021 #90
LovingA2andMI May 2021 #94
Raine May 2021 #104
JohnSJ May 2021 #63
Bernardo de La Paz May 2021 #91
LiberalLovinLug May 2021 #95
Bernardo de La Paz May 2021 #86
Wingus Dingus May 2021 #43
Steelrolled May 2021 #116
marie999 May 2021 #73
Bernardo de La Paz May 2021 #88
marie999 May 2021 #99
Steelrolled May 2021 #115
LovingA2andMI May 2021 #4
NutmegYankee May 2021 #10
NoMoreRepugs May 2021 #19
Act_of_Reparation May 2021 #46
demmiblue May 2021 #70
Steelrolled May 2021 #78
LovingA2andMI May 2021 #92
Steelrolled May 2021 #117
NewHendoLib May 2021 #5
mountain grammy May 2021 #9
janterry May 2021 #6
LovingA2andMI May 2021 #12
TheRickles May 2021 #24
janterry May 2021 #33
former9thward May 2021 #106
TheRickles May 2021 #108
former9thward May 2021 #109
TheRickles May 2021 #110
former9thward May 2021 #111
TheRickles May 2021 #112
HUAJIAO May 2021 #57
TheRickles May 2021 #60
HUAJIAO May 2021 #62
TheRickles May 2021 #66
LovingA2andMI May 2021 #93
TheRickles May 2021 #102
littlemissmartypants May 2021 #107
TheRickles May 2021 #83
Ollie Garkie May 2021 #8
IronLionZion May 2021 #11
mdbl May 2021 #18
AZLD4Candidate May 2021 #56
mdbl May 2021 #72
Efilroft Sul May 2021 #22
Botany May 2021 #32
CaptainTruth May 2021 #34
roamer65 May 2021 #47
LisaL May 2021 #48
Tactical Peek May 2021 #13
mdbl May 2021 #17
hay rick May 2021 #26
Trueblue Texan May 2021 #14
PurgedVoter May 2021 #15
Trueblue Texan May 2021 #16
Garion_55 May 2021 #20
mnhtnbb May 2021 #23
IronLionZion May 2021 #27
Buckeye_Democrat May 2021 #30
FBaggins May 2021 #21
Jetheels May 2021 #28
Deminpenn May 2021 #29
hueymahl May 2021 #37
Deminpenn May 2021 #74
Steelrolled May 2021 #81
riversedge May 2021 #31
Roc2020 May 2021 #35
Fiendish Thingy May 2021 #39
turbinetree May 2021 #41
maxsolomon May 2021 #64
turbinetree May 2021 #67
ThatJustHappened May 2021 #44
roamer65 May 2021 #50
Name removed May 2021 #113
roamer65 May 2021 #114
roamer65 May 2021 #45
LisaL May 2021 #49
roamer65 May 2021 #52
Deminpenn May 2021 #75
Miguelito Loveless May 2021 #51
argyl May 2021 #54
aeromanKC May 2021 #55
twodogsbarking May 2021 #58
Buckeye_Democrat May 2021 #59
LisaL May 2021 #65
Buckeye_Democrat May 2021 #68
LetMyPeopleVote May 2021 #61
BoringUsername May 2021 #69
Stallion May 2021 #71
Auggie May 2021 #76
henbuck May 2021 #79
Steelrolled May 2021 #80
TheRickles May 2021 #82
LiberalFighter May 2021 #84
Marthe48 May 2021 #89
Stallion May 2021 #96
Buckeye_Democrat May 2021 #97
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin May 2021 #98
Raftergirl May 2021 #100
apnu May 2021 #101
hamsterjill May 2021 #105
Raine May 2021 #103

Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 07:55 AM

1. Give palliative care to the anti-vaxxers. Let them die. . . . nt

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #1)

Mon May 3, 2021, 08:02 AM

2. This could solve a lot of problems

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #1)

Mon May 3, 2021, 08:10 AM

3. +1

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #1)

Mon May 3, 2021, 08:34 AM

7. Cyanide capsules?

Just saying either take the vaccine or take the capsule (which would be a placebo).
No choice.

We don't have polio, measles, small pox, scarlet fever ....

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Response to Botany (Reply #7)

Mon May 3, 2021, 10:00 AM

40. But But But

Freedumb!!!


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Response to COL Mustard (Reply #40)

Mon May 3, 2021, 10:06 AM

42. Putting the dumb back into Freedumb





@ one time we had an educated population that understood stopping polio and not having people
in iron lungs was a goal for the whole country. I remember in the 1960s on a weekend "us kids"
went to our elementary school and got our polio vaccine on sugar cubes.

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Response to Botany (Reply #42)

Mon May 3, 2021, 01:22 PM

87. Hope you got all 3 doses!

We had to go 3 Sundays in a row and get a sugar cube each time-Sabin Oral Sunday

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Response to Botany (Reply #7)

Mon May 3, 2021, 01:13 PM

85. But, but, but, ... Dr Fauci does not recommend taking cyanide capsules instead of the vaccine.

Last edited Mon May 3, 2021, 01:48 PM - Edit history (1)


Dr Fauci says take the vaccine instead of the cyanide capsules.

{wink}

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #1)

Mon May 3, 2021, 09:09 AM

25. We agree!

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #1)

Mon May 3, 2021, 09:40 AM

36. I agree

But why do we have to give them care at all? The Nazi White Supremacist Racist Anti Vaxxers were supposed to have been wiped out on D-Day in 1944.

Just let them kill themselves. They want to avoid the vaccine and not wear a mask and refuse science, then they should suffer the consequences for doing so. All of them should suffer to the fullest extent the law allows. No care, no nothing. Throw them into the coronavirus chamber and force them suffer without ventilators. They should have to sign a waiver giving up their right to treatment if they take such a position.

You want to not take a vaccine, not follow the rules, and not wear a mask? Philippine President Duterte's solution to this problem is an excellent place to start.


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Response to SuperCoder (Reply #36)


Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #1)

Mon May 3, 2021, 09:56 AM

38. I think you are trying to be funny

But wishing for fellow human beings to die is distasteful. As Democrats, we should be better than that.

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Response to hueymahl (Reply #38)

Mon May 3, 2021, 10:31 AM

53. I find the ' let them die' line of thinking incredibly offensive, small minded and ignorant

I can't believe I'm seeing that kind of sentiment spread and applauded on DU.

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Response to SayitAintSo (Reply #53)

Mon May 3, 2021, 01:35 PM

90. Sophistry, but with karma plus RW hypocrisy


I'm only mildly serious, not deadly serious.

There is a Right Wing and Libertarian discussion that needs to be had. If RW and Libertarians are going to live by their ideals, they should die by them too.

They have a hypocritical ethos that people who do not contribute should not benefit. Hypocritical of course because they only apply it to keep "the other" down. If the anti-vaxxers (greatly predominantly RW) do not want to contribute to the health of their society by getting vaxxed, perhaps they should not get all the benefits.

But for them to not to be hypocritical on this issue, they have to first believe in science.

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Response to SayitAintSo (Reply #53)

Mon May 3, 2021, 02:26 PM

94. Sad...

Isn't it.

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Response to SayitAintSo (Reply #53)

Mon May 3, 2021, 07:27 PM

104. It's totally repulsive. nt

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Response to hueymahl (Reply #38)

Mon May 3, 2021, 11:16 AM

63. It is not a question of wishing "death" on somebody, but the fact is those who refuse to get

the vaccine are putting a lot of people at risk, and increase the odds for variants that the vaccine will not be effective on. I would argue that those who refuse to get the vaccine, (I am not talking about those who cannot take the vaccine because of certain medical conditions), or those that refuse to wear mask in public places and follow the guidelines, are the ones who are actually wishing death on people because of their actions, not someone who verbalizes that someone who doesn't follow the guidelines deserves the consequences


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Response to JohnSJ (Reply #63)

Mon May 3, 2021, 01:36 PM

91. You get it. Thanks. . . . nt

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Response to JohnSJ (Reply #63)

Mon May 3, 2021, 02:46 PM

95. Exactly.

"serves them right" is maybe going too far. But its pretty hard not to make a cynical black humour kind of joke when we are witnessing them literally kill themselves because of irrational anti-science views and irresponsibly selfish decisions.

Always seems to be a minority who decide to ignore reason. In some ways, all you can do is laugh. Vonnegut's Breakfast of Champions helped me to see that there is a part of life that is a complete joke by God. And these MAGATs are voluntarily setting themselves up as the punchline. Its hard to suppress my laughter.

I guess one can be more polite, and resist to feel the schadenfreude, bite your tongue so you don't crack a smile, but sorry, I'm done being polite. These people are spreading COVID blithely, purposely. They are a danger to other humans. I have zero sympathy for them.


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Response to hueymahl (Reply #38)

Mon May 3, 2021, 01:19 PM

86. Yes, and I'm not wishing for them to die. But they are making their own selfish choice


By not getting vaccinated they hope to benefit from the herd immunity without making an effort to achieve it.

That is selfish because, per the article, it could delay or prevent herd immunity.

That is why I carefully phrased it "Let them die". Their choice. If they don't want to help society, then society perhaps shouldn't help them.

(Yes, this is an exercise in sophistry, but it is to emphasize the point of the article.)

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #1)

Mon May 3, 2021, 10:08 AM

43. I'm actually pretty ok with the political divide on this issue.

There will be less of them, and it doesn't bother me. It should, but they choose their fate of their own freewill.

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Response to Wingus Dingus (Reply #43)

Thu May 20, 2021, 06:20 PM

116. The divide is more based on age than politics

The older groups that are more conservative have high rates of vaccination. I doubt the younger groups will ever reach those levels.

Most people make decisions based on "what's in it for me" and frankly it is a tougher sell for younger people.

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #1)

Mon May 3, 2021, 12:03 PM

73. You might want to look up the definition of palliative care.

There is a big difference between hospice care and palliative care. Hospice care basically tries to keep you pain-free while you are dying. Palliative care consists of doctors providing treatment to seriously ill patients in the hopes of a cure as long as possible. In palliative care, you do not have to give up treatment that will cure you. Do you believe that doctors should be able to treat only those patients who conform to what that doctor believes in? Is this what you think this country stands for?

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Response to marie999 (Reply #73)

Mon May 3, 2021, 01:28 PM

88. Thanks for the distinction, but ...


Thanks for clarifying about palliative versus hospice, but palliative would still apply. Palliative does not mean having to give up curative treatment, but it also does not require curative treatment.

Sure, help alleviate their symptoms, but if antivaxxers don't won't to help cure society (achieve herd immunity), perhaps society should not want to help cure them.

As to your last two sentences, ... This is an exercise in sophistry. Thus I do not expect doctors to not treat anti-vaxxers, nor do I want the US to go the way the right wing wants it to go: deny treatment to groups (LGBTQ) because of fucked-up RW beliefs.

Still, there is a Right-Wing and Libertarian case to be made that if people don't contribute they shouldn't benefit. Live by the RW sword, die by it?

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #88)

Mon May 3, 2021, 05:03 PM

99. It up to the patient whether or not they receive curative treatment.

It is not up to the doctor.

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #1)

Thu May 20, 2021, 06:16 PM

115. Given that most people without vaccines are younger (less than 50)

very few will die if they get infected.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 08:11 AM

4. A Bit of A Flip-Flip of Sorts in these comments.

Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the Biden administration’s top adviser on Covid-19, acknowledged the shift in experts’ thinking.

People were getting confused and thinking you’re never going to get the infections down until you reach this mystical level of herd immunity, whatever that number is,” he said.

“That’s why we stopped using herd immunity in the classic sense,” he added. “I’m saying: Forget that for a second. You vaccinate enough people, the infections are going to go down.”


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/03/health/covid-heard-immunity-vaccine.html?smid=tw-share

Considering he said this in December 24, 2020....

Recently, a figure to whom millions of Americans look for guidance — Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, an adviser to both the Trump administration and the incoming Biden administration — has begun incrementally raising his herd-immunity estimate.

In the pandemic’s early days, Dr. Fauci tended to cite the same 60 to 70 percent estimate that most experts did. About a month ago, he began saying “70, 75 percent” in television interviews. And last week, in an interview with CNBC News, he said “75, 80, 85 percent” and “75 to 80-plus percent.”


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/24/health/herd-immunity-covid-coronavirus.html

Oh Well....

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Response to LovingA2andMI (Reply #4)

Mon May 3, 2021, 08:36 AM

10. As variants come out, like the UK version that are more infectous, the percentage goes up. nt

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Response to LovingA2andMI (Reply #4)

Mon May 3, 2021, 08:52 AM

19. Not a "flip-flop" - an estimate based upon the most current situation in an ever changing

environment with a myriad of variables - including human nature. It might be he is revising the % upwards as it becomes evident a larger percentage of dickwads won’t get vaccinated than everyone thought initially.

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Response to LovingA2andMI (Reply #4)

Mon May 3, 2021, 10:17 AM

46. Gosh.

It's almost like the recommendations change as new information comes to light. Weird, innit?

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #46)

Mon May 3, 2021, 11:46 AM

70. Without going into detail, there is a history of anti-vaccaination.

Dems have anti-vaxxers, too. :sigh:

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Response to LovingA2andMI (Reply #4)

Mon May 3, 2021, 12:23 PM

78. I take everything he says with a grain of salt

Nice guy, but I'd like to see someone new as we are moving into the next phase.

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Response to Steelrolled (Reply #78)

Mon May 3, 2021, 02:23 PM

92. Ditto....

n/t

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Response to LovingA2andMI (Reply #4)


Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 08:16 AM

5. TMSP*

*too many stupid people

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Response to NewHendoLib (Reply #5)

Mon May 3, 2021, 08:35 AM

9. Yep

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 08:26 AM

6. I really wish we could find an effective treatment

n/t

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Response to janterry (Reply #6)

Mon May 3, 2021, 08:37 AM

12. There are some...

Won't link them here but many, many, many Doctors from all sides of the aisles have been shouting about them for months. Yet, most of the Public have not heard their shouting. Sadly, it been on purpose.

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Response to janterry (Reply #6)

Mon May 3, 2021, 09:05 AM

24. Prevention.

Many risk factors are modifiable by the individual - low Vitamin D levels, obesity, stress management training (to enhance immune function). Others would require more societal interventions - air pollution, crowding, etc.

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Response to TheRickles (Reply #24)

Mon May 3, 2021, 09:30 AM

33. I think this is important and I've done what I can

I'm not obese, eat well (whole foods, veggies, lots of greens). Upped my exercise

But we still need something - I thought we'd find something really effective by now. I hope it happens soon

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Response to TheRickles (Reply #24)

Mon May 3, 2021, 11:47 PM

106. Air pollution?

Please cite a science article which ties air pollution to Covid.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #106)

Tue May 4, 2021, 08:43 AM

108. If you Google "air pollution" and "covid mortality", you'll find over 7400 citations.

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Response to TheRickles (Reply #108)

Tue May 4, 2021, 11:28 AM

109. IN my view there are many, many things wrong with the article.

First, the author of the "study" is a statistician. Not a health scientist. She is trying to take correlations and turn them into causation. There is a picture of Las Vegas in the article. Las Vegas gets its air "pollution" from the desert dust -- Mother Nature -- not industry or traffic pollution. There is no explanation of population density as a possible cause rather than pollution.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #109)

Tue May 4, 2021, 12:07 PM

110. One down, 7399 to go.

Why wouldn't a process that damages lungs (air pollution) make those organs more susceptible to viral infections?

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Response to TheRickles (Reply #110)

Tue May 4, 2021, 12:13 PM

111. Yes.

But no U.S. city has that type of pollution on an ongoing basis. And it needs to be bad and ongoing. If it were a city like Beijing or some of the others in China i think a good argument could be made.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #111)

Tue May 4, 2021, 12:23 PM

112. It's not all-or-nothing w/r/t risk factors

We don't know how much air pollution is enough to contribute to susceptibility to infection. Certainly New Delhi has awful pollution, as does Northern Italy where Europe's first outbreak occurred (Milan, Bergamo). And it may be that in the US, other risk factors are more important than air pollution (ie, obesity). But it's a factor that has been under-reported, IMO.

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Response to janterry (Reply #6)

Mon May 3, 2021, 10:47 AM

57. There is at least one VERY GOOD one, and it is a prophylaxis as well,

but when I posted about it with scientific links, my post was removed for violating DU rules.. I wrote a long request that my post be reinstated but never heard anything....So I won't mention it again,,

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Response to HUAJIAO (Reply #57)

Mon May 3, 2021, 11:09 AM

60. Yes, I know of two items in that category. Didn't know your posts were removed.

It's a shame because they should at least be part of the conversation, especially when there are some pretty good studies out there.

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Response to TheRickles (Reply #60)

Mon May 3, 2021, 11:15 AM

62. Exactly, my post was considered in the category of 'conspiracy theories' or "wacko ideas!"

No way was that the case. But if 100% approved by the FDA for covid use, there was no big profit to be made.. That tells ya something about the FDA and the powers that be...

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Response to HUAJIAO (Reply #62)

Mon May 3, 2021, 11:26 AM

66. I wonder what would happen if someone just posted a link to the journal article

with a post Title like"Here's an interesting article about Covid treatment", or something similarly generic. Especially if it were a respected top-tier science journal, that'd be hard to dismiss as CT.

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Response to TheRickles (Reply #66)

Mon May 3, 2021, 02:25 PM

93. It won't pass mustard....

So folks will have to Google. Google is a friend.

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Response to LovingA2andMI (Reply #93)

Mon May 3, 2021, 06:20 PM

102. Check out post #82. So far, so good.

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Response to LovingA2andMI (Reply #93)

Tue May 4, 2021, 02:31 AM

107. Or muster either. nt

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Response to HUAJIAO (Reply #62)

Mon May 3, 2021, 12:44 PM

83. Check out post #82....

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 08:34 AM

8. The vaccine hesitant...

Will be the people bitching loudest if we still have to wear masks next year.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 08:36 AM

11. Lots of conservatives are unmuzzled, unvaxxed, and unafraid

to admit they don't care about anyone else.



You would think they would get vaccinated to stop foreigners from getting it, but no. They want to destroy the extra vaccines to avoid foreigners from getting it.

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #11)

Mon May 3, 2021, 08:52 AM

18. Of course it's made in the USA

no other country has a large enough herd of stupids to buy that tshirt.

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Response to mdbl (Reply #18)

Mon May 3, 2021, 10:40 AM

56. Swazliland has "Mwsa-Tees" honoring their brutal "king" Mwsati III. China sells and people wear Mao

Last edited Mon May 3, 2021, 11:57 AM - Edit history (1)

shirts, cheerfully denying his brutality and also honoring his legacy.

Stupid runs deep all over the world because the ability to analyze and detect BS has been destroyed in our schools in order for STEM to create good little worker bees who are just smart enough to work the machines, and just dumb enough to accept the lousy pay, miserable benefits, the end of overtime, the vanishing pensions, and the drive to privatize any government pension they have, like Social Security.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #56)

Mon May 3, 2021, 11:55 AM

72. I stand corrected

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #11)

Mon May 3, 2021, 09:01 AM

22. They believe their selfishness is an act of personal freedom.

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #11)

Mon May 3, 2021, 09:27 AM

32. Will they let the person who wears this shirt have it on in the hospital as they hook him up ...

... to the ventilator?

I wonder if the frog logo is linked to the "Boogaloo Boys" frog nonsense?

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #11)

Mon May 3, 2021, 09:32 AM

34. Uneducated

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #11)

Mon May 3, 2021, 10:24 AM

47. I wish they all would wear those shirts.

Easier to round them up for the FEMA camps.

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #11)

Mon May 3, 2021, 10:25 AM

48. Uncaring should be included on that t-shirt.

NT

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 08:38 AM

13. Herd stupidity stands in the way of herd immunity.


Moooooooo.

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Response to Tactical Peek (Reply #13)

Mon May 3, 2021, 08:50 AM

17. Well put!

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Response to Tactical Peek (Reply #13)

Mon May 3, 2021, 09:12 AM

26. LOL.

We accomplished herd stupidity in record time- to the surprise of no one.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 08:43 AM

14. I've had patients with no co-morbidities...

...who survived Covid-19 and are now on dialysis, oxygen, and can no longer walker independently. These were patients who were younger than 60, some younger than 50, no diabetes, no obesity. Their lives have dramatically changed because of Covid. But stupid is harder to cure than Covid. Even my own brother caught Covid because of stupidity (and he's a Democrat!). He said he was so sick he was shaking from head to toe. He said his daughter-in-law gave him some vitamin B-3 and zinc and by the next day he was feeling so much better, he went to town! At that point in the conversation my head exploded. I told him I hope he didn't kill anyone when he was there. "No, I had on a mask," he said. Jesus. Like I said, you can't cure stupid.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 08:44 AM

15. Simple enough to solve this if we have the will to do it.

Declare an emergency, the sort that gives war powers. Then you test everyone and isolate. In two weeks, the country will be close to normal. From there you have leaks, but you have to consider those leaks, serious and if done by intent, serious crimes. In a month there will barely be a whisper of the disease.

In two months we will find out if the persistent covid patients are still communicable.

Problem is, this does little good if this is not done by the rest of the world as well. If however, rich, poor connected and even religious, there must be no excuse. No one is forced to have a vaccine unless we find that persistent cases can spread the disease. Everyone is forced to not spread the disease.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)


Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 08:56 AM

20. Simple solution...

anyone who doesnt want the vaccine, offer them a dose of the virus instead.

you can have one or the other. thats how we get to herd immunity.

i keep hearing them talk about how great their personal immunity systems are so lets put that to the test.

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Response to Garion_55 (Reply #20)

Mon May 3, 2021, 09:02 AM

23. People who have had Covid are getting it again.

Having it once does not guarantee immunity.

I think someone here just posted about a relative getting it for a third time.

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Response to Garion_55 (Reply #20)

Mon May 3, 2021, 09:16 AM

27. COVID survivors often have organ damage they don't know about

even after a mild case of COVID, they can still have bad heart damage.

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #27)

Mon May 3, 2021, 09:21 AM

30. Or lung damage that looks worse than...

... a lifetime of smoking!

It's such a nasty virus!

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 09:00 AM

21. I don't think that anyone expected it to ever be gone completely

But "manageable" combined with the option of personal near immunity is close enough.

The UK and Israel are only 10-20% ahead of us on vaccinations and their infection/death rates have fallen off a cliff. It might not be "herd immunity" by some technical measure, but we may still be able to get pretty close

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 09:18 AM

28. All thanks to anti masker, "it's just like the flu", anti science, "it will be gone by April",

Former Guy. Why’s he not in prison yet?

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 09:21 AM

29. The fact is the experts really do not know

what percentage "herd" immunity is. They are being conservative saying 80% of people need to have some sort of immunity.

But the fact is that at least 32M people who have had covid and 104M vaccinated people with full or some level of protection. That's over 1/3 of 331M (2020 census) of the US population. Of those 331M, 55M are under 15 who are not yet eligible to be vaccinated. That leaves 276M adults, meaning half have some level of protection.

If the CDC's estimation that 35% of the population has had covid19, that's nearly 116M people, add that to the 104 and it's 220M people or about 2/3rds of the total US population have some of full protection.



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Response to Deminpenn (Reply #29)

Mon May 3, 2021, 09:54 AM

37. Thank you for providing some context to the situation

It is not nearly as black and white as either side likes to make it out to be. I would much rather deal in realities than fear mongering. Ignoring science and statistics to make a point is not what we should be doing.

I am also disappointed at the harm being wished on other human beings by some of the posters on this thread. just because someone is dead wrong about the vaccine, does not mean we should wish them harm or death. We are better than that.

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Response to hueymahl (Reply #37)

Mon May 3, 2021, 12:04 PM

74. I know there's some overlap in the "had covid" and "vaccinated"

groups, but still a significant percentage of the population now has at least some immunity. Anecdotally, of my circle of family and friends, though not large, there is only 1 person who has not either had covid or been fully vaccinated.

Despite covid-19 being around for about 18 months now, there is still a lot that is unknown. Making pronouncements as if they are established fact isn't helpful, imho.

Further, with the shown success of the mRNA vaccines, although there might be more novel diseases, the ability to identify and track via rapid DNA sequencing and having a vaccine production process in place will limit future epidemics/pandemics.

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Response to hueymahl (Reply #37)

Mon May 3, 2021, 12:42 PM

81. Thank you for your post - all very good points.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 09:23 AM

31. Damn Republicans!! If they would step up we would not have to worry about our elderly

folks and others we care about getting the #covid!

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 09:32 AM

35. the vaccine and personal safety

that's all we have. Herd immunity is a wish.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 09:59 AM

39. Silver lining: this may create momentum for Universal Healthcare

I expect there will be a surge in bankruptcies related to medical bills in the coming years, so candidates running on universal healthcare may gain an advantage in future elections.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 10:04 AM

41. You know they should just make this vaccine mandatory end of story

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Response to turbinetree (Reply #41)

Mon May 3, 2021, 11:18 AM

64. You're asking for a 100 Branch Davidian standoffs.

America is filled with millions of Adult Children armed to the teeth.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #64)

Mon May 3, 2021, 11:28 AM

67. That's the reason why my idea will not work,

and besides every right wing state is basically a bunch of branch Davidians already, and now to add to the fun, the country has a right wing court that thinks churches can have as many people in a church without a masks to hell with the non believers go out and pass on the variants .........oh goody...

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 10:10 AM

44. Thanks. MAGA. Scum.

 

Pandemics continue to increase due to Global Warming
Climate Change thanks to MAGA Scum

CoVid-19 is just the beginning
Soon regressiveness must be outlawed

Forced vaxx laws are already in place
Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905)

Only about a third of police and military
Are being vaxxed

So, yeah, two thirds of those forces
Are MAGA Scum

Gee, whodathunk?
GOP, MIC, MAGAs, Trump, sociopathic CEOs, Religitards

You can lay all of society's ills
At the feet of regressive Conservatives

And for the past few thousand years too
Overpopulation is the cause of all earthly problems

Go forth and multiply, MAGA Scum
Time to outlaw that too

It's not about rights anymore
It's about planetary survival



https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/05/02/police-low-vaccination-rates-safety-concerns/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts

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Response to ThatJustHappened (Reply #44)

Mon May 3, 2021, 10:27 AM

50. The planet will survive. Humans may not.

At this point, I hafta ask is that really such a bad thing?

Maybe human extinction would be a good thing for planet Earth...as we call it.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #50)


Response to Name removed (Reply #113)

Thu May 20, 2021, 03:38 PM

114. The Earth in its present orbital position has about 1 billion life bearing years left.

In about a billion years, the Sun will begin its expansion due to hydrogen depletion for fusion. It will become more luminescent and temperatures will start to rise appreciably on Earth.

Even as we speak, the habitable zone is moving outward and GHG’s exacerbate the effect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_Earth

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 10:12 AM

45. If u remain unvaccinated, you are an open vessel for viral recombination.

All who are physically able to receive the vaccine should be mandatorily forced to do so.

Not doing so should result in loss of all government benefits.

We already have this approach to Selective Service registration.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #45)

Mon May 3, 2021, 10:26 AM

49. Once vaccines are fully approved by FDA (which should be soon) they

should be made mandatory. We have too many morons to leave it up to them to decide.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #49)

Mon May 3, 2021, 10:29 AM

52. Yup, I definitely agree.

I am hearing once that happens, the flood gates of companies and corporations requiring it for continued employment are going to open.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #52)

Mon May 3, 2021, 12:06 PM

75. +1

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 10:27 AM

51. Massive success for the Q Party

Substantial destruction of the belief in science.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 10:35 AM

54. Keep cranking out vaccine as fast as we can.

Then take whatever we can and distribute it equitably to countries who desperately want and need this vaccine and have done their best to contain it.
Masks, frequent hand washing, social distancing and even lockdowns( looks like another one will be coming up in Bangkok and other parts of Thailand) are great but the cure is a vaccine, pure and simple. And it could be a yearly affair or whenever lethal variants start popping up.
But rolling up our sleeves then getting vaccinated is what will beat this.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 10:39 AM

55. Anti-Vaxer's need an Intervention

They either go into treatment (take the vaccine) or they will be no longer receive benefits from the government.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 10:49 AM

58. Sadly we will never get to tell these people

"I told you so."

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 11:00 AM

59. My sister's 70-year old religious friend FINALLY got...

... her first vaccine shot.

She previously refused to do it, but now her 37-year old daughter is connected to an expensive ECMO machine to essentially breathe for her! (Oxygenating her blood while removing the carbon dioxide.) And the son-in-law is inside an ICU with Covid too.

Her three young grandchildren are now living with her, but guess what! They recently tested positive for Covid too!

So she finally got vaccinated after it already affected her family, because NOW it's real to her!

She's in quarantine with the grandkids at this point. Time will tell if the last-minute vaccination will help her much.

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Response to Buckeye_Democrat (Reply #59)

Mon May 3, 2021, 11:21 AM

65. As we all know, vaccines don't work right away.

It takes at least two weeks for it to kick in. So if the grandkids are infected, and she is exposed to them, chances of vaccine that she just got to prevent infection are very low.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #65)

Mon May 3, 2021, 11:31 AM

68. I'm convinced that she'll be infected too.

She's probably infected already.

As past contact-tracing showed, most people got infected by a household member who brought it into the house. Which makes sense as their aerosols spread pretty much everywhere indoors without very strict isolation measures.

She's supposedly remaining in quarantine with them, according to what my sister was told, so she may not get tested for awhile unless she becomes deathly-ill too.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 11:12 AM

61. We need vaccine passports and to exclude/shun assholes who refuse to be vaccinated

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 11:37 AM

69. We still haven't begun to vaccinate kids yet

Kids account for roughly 20% of our population (a little more actually) and we haven't been able to vaccinate them yet. No idea how many people will vaccinate their kids though.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 11:48 AM

71. I Think We'll Reach Herd Immunity Levels Relatively Quickly in Most Traditional Democratic States

heck New Hampshire already has reached 61% with at least one shot-most Democratic states are doing pretty well in vaccinations

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 12:15 PM

76. People have been slinging this term around as if it meant the end ...

It doesn't.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 12:30 PM

79. Make vaccination mandatory, nobody asked me if wanted to be vaccinate in school.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 12:33 PM

80. This pandemic has always done its own thing

and we have seen time after time that our ability to explain its past behavior, much less predict the future, has been poor. Trying now to predict the likelihood of herd immunity seems pointless.

We can just continue to make vaccine available, encourage people to get it, and hope for the best. I myself am optimistic.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 12:43 PM

82. Here's an interesting article about asymptomatic spreaders.

It's from the most respected medical journal in the world - Nature - so it's worth checking out, at least the abstract. The results are surprising.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w?fbclid=IwAR1TW1gnm-vSr9VpF_TlJmM494bor9QITAJcC9xDKAK7IjxgrRD-e5RBfQc

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 12:45 PM

84. It needs to be mandatory.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 01:30 PM

89. The vaccine is another tool to stay as safe as each one can

One of my daughter's friends lost her vaccinated dad (in another country)

My friend's pre-teen great grand daughter testes positive for Covid-19.

Worldometer today lists 3, 221,742 dead worldwide. 591, 102 dead Americans. The Ohio state site lists 19,285 dead in Ohio.

There are a lot of things I will never do again. But when I go out, I'm wearing a mask (maybe 2) and gloves.

I blame trump, the father of the virus.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 02:58 PM

96. 82.8% of Seniors and 56.3% Over 18 Have Received at Least 1 Shot of the Vaccine

if people get at least one shot its probable they will get 2nd shot too, if required. So we really aren't too far away after about 100+ days

I think this article is a little alarmist with regard to the United States especially since children aren't going to have much of a say when the vaccine is rolled out for them

What is trending right now is that traditional democratic states are headed toward herd immunity and Southern states and evangelical states are lagging far behind

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Response to Stallion (Reply #96)

Mon May 3, 2021, 03:08 PM

97. Yep, and even states like WV are now lagging behind...

... after a very fast start, partly because they had fewer restrictions early-on. It was more of a "come and get it" approach.

Yet I knew this story from late-January wouldn't persist for that state, since it's chock-full of Trump cultists.

'We crushed it': How did West Virginia become a national leader in Covid vaccination?
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/we-crushed-it-how-did-west-virginia-become-national-leader-n1256276

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 04:23 PM

98. So instead of herd immunity we'll be thinning the herd

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 05:43 PM

100. I think those of us who are

fully vaccinated or who are in the process will be okay - even with the advent of more serious variants, because the pharma companies, who are makings the vaccine now, already have the technology, so can rapidly ramp up boosters that will cover the variants. We will get the boosters when they are needed, just like we get our flu shots once a year.

I’m pretty sure we will also keep wearing masks in public places because we know the added benefit it brings.

The anti vaxxers will keep doing what they are doing already and keep getting sick. Some will die and some will become long haulers.

I feel fortunate that all my friends and family are fully vaccinated except those under 16. They have parents who will have their kids get the vaccine when it’s approved for their age range. I also live in an area where vaccination is going really well. That gives me some peace of mind when I am out and about where I live.

There really is nothing we can do to get anti vaxxers to get the vaccine. It is what it is.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 06:01 PM

101. COVID is here to stay. This pandemic and its changes are the new normal.

I say this often and get piled on for it. Some folks are in denial. We, as a species, failed this test.

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Response to apnu (Reply #101)


Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 07:25 PM

103. "let them die" I remember that EXACT quote coming from the audience

during a Republican primary debate in 2008. It was appalling then and even worse hearing it come from the Democratic side.

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