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Sun May 16, 2021, 02:15 PM

AP's top editor calls for probe into Israeli airstrike

Source: AP

By HOPE YEN

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Associated Press’ top editor on Sunday called for an independent investigation into the Israeli airstrike that targeted and destroyed a Gaza City building housing the AP, broadcaster Al-Jazeera and other media, saying the public deserves to know the facts.

Sally Buzbee, AP’s executive editor, said the Israeli government has yet to provide clear evidence supporting its attack, which leveled the 12-story al-Jalaa tower.

The Israeli military, which gave AP journalists and other tenants about an hour to evacuate, claimed Hamas used the building for a military intelligence office and weapons development. Israeli military spokesman Lt. Col. Jonathan Conricus said Israel was compiling evidence for the U.S. but declined to commit to providing it within the next two days.

“We’re in the middle of fighting,” Conricus said Sunday. “That’s in process and I’m sure in due time that information will be presented.”



The building housing the offices of The Associated Press and other media in Gaza City collapses after it was hit by an Israeli airstrike Saturday, May 15, 2021. The attack came roughly an hour after the Israeli military warned people to evacuate the building, which also housed Al-Jazeera and a number of offices and apartments. There was no immediate explanation for why the building was targeted. (AP Photo/Hatem Moussa)


Read more: https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-israel-business-israel-palestinian-conflict-government-and-politics-abd641af1607fbae7f49e1cce7dbc49e

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Reply AP's top editor calls for probe into Israeli airstrike (Original post)
Omaha Steve May 16 OP
multigraincracker May 16 #1
WHITT May 16 #2
multigraincracker May 16 #4
EX500rider May 16 #5
pnwmom May 16 #8
EX500rider May 16 #10
pnwmom May 16 #11
EX500rider May 16 #13
TheRickles May 16 #15
pnwmom May 16 #16
Mosby May 16 #18
pnwmom May 16 #19
WHITT May 16 #22
totodeinhere May 16 #27
pnwmom May 16 #30
totodeinhere May 17 #37
pnwmom May 17 #38
Mysterian May 16 #12
WHITT May 16 #21
EX500rider May 16 #28
pnwmom May 16 #31
WHITT May 17 #53
EX500rider May 17 #55
WHITT May 19 #80
EX500rider May 19 #86
EX500rider May 18 #68
WHITT May 19 #81
EX500rider May 19 #85
orangecrush May 19 #83
George II May 16 #14
pnwmom May 16 #17
WHITT May 16 #23
EX500rider May 17 #46
WHITT May 17 #54
EX500rider May 17 #57
Devil Child May 16 #3
Steelrolled May 19 #96
guillaumeb May 16 #6
Jedi Guy May 16 #9
WHITT May 16 #24
Jedi Guy May 16 #25
WHITT May 16 #26
Jedi Guy May 16 #29
WHITT May 17 #35
Jedi Guy May 17 #40
WHITT May 17 #42
Jedi Guy May 17 #43
WHITT May 17 #44
Jedi Guy May 17 #45
EX500rider May 17 #49
Jedi Guy May 17 #51
WHITT May 17 #59
EX500rider May 17 #60
WHITT May 17 #61
EX500rider May 17 #62
WHITT May 18 #64
EX500rider May 18 #70
WHITT May 19 #82
EX500rider May 19 #84
WHITT May 17 #58
Jedi Guy May 17 #63
Withywindle May 17 #32
Withywindle May 17 #33
Jedi Guy May 17 #41
guillaumeb May 17 #47
EX500rider May 17 #50
guillaumeb May 18 #65
EX500rider May 18 #67
Jedi Guy May 17 #52
guillaumeb May 18 #66
Jedi Guy May 18 #71
guillaumeb May 18 #72
Jedi Guy May 18 #73
guillaumeb May 18 #74
Jedi Guy May 18 #75
guillaumeb May 18 #76
Jedi Guy May 18 #77
guillaumeb May 18 #78
Jedi Guy May 18 #79
EX500rider May 19 #87
guillaumeb May 19 #88
EX500rider May 19 #89
guillaumeb May 19 #90
EX500rider May 19 #91
guillaumeb May 19 #92
EX500rider May 19 #93
guillaumeb May 19 #94
EX500rider May 19 #95
global1 May 16 #7
Steelrolled May 19 #97
mountain grammy May 16 #20
TomWilm May 17 #34
ripcord May 17 #36
guillaumeb May 17 #48
Duppers May 17 #56
sarisataka May 17 #39
Mysterian May 18 #69
Steelrolled May 19 #98

Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sun May 16, 2021, 02:21 PM

1. So, how many rockets were fired by Hamas

from that building?

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Response to multigraincracker (Reply #1)

Sun May 16, 2021, 02:28 PM

2. None

not even the fascist Likud makes that claim. They only falsely claimed Hamas had an 'intelligence office' in the building, but the owner of the building calls that allegation nonsense.

Clearly the fascist Likud didn't want the AP, the BBC, Al Jazeera, and other journalist offices in the building reporting on their War Crimes.

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Response to WHITT (Reply #2)

Sun May 16, 2021, 02:29 PM

4. Thank you for

the prompt reply.


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Response to WHITT (Reply #2)

Sun May 16, 2021, 02:31 PM

5. "They only falsely claimed Hamas had an 'intelligence office' "

And you know this is false how?

The building owner would say whatever Hama's wants him to if he wants to keep breathing.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #5)

Sun May 16, 2021, 03:19 PM

8. Let's pretend that is true. There is no moral or legal justification for bombing a whole building

housing journalists and apartment dwellers because they think there is an office inside it with some intelligence people.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #8)

Sun May 16, 2021, 03:23 PM

10. That makes it a military target and they warned the occupants to get out.

Hama's ever warn anybody about anything before they fire rockets at it?

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #10)

Sun May 16, 2021, 03:26 PM

11. No, it isn't enough to just be a military target. This attack violated the law of proportionality.nt

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #11)

Sun May 16, 2021, 04:03 PM

13. How do you know exactly what the military advantage would be?

The principle of proportionality prohibits attacks against military objectives which are “expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated”
That would be up to the IDF to decide.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #13)

Sun May 16, 2021, 04:31 PM

15. The IDF could also decide that every Palestinian citizen is a probable Hamas sympathizer

and target them wherever they live; meetings of Hamas members might be held in their living rooms, etc, etc.. In other words, there's no line they wouldn't cross. This bombing "coincidentally" ensures that potentially critical press coverage will be minimized. Sorry - it doesn't pass the smell test.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #13)

Sun May 16, 2021, 04:31 PM

16. The IDF won't have the last word. The International Criminal Court will.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #16)

Sun May 16, 2021, 05:04 PM

18. Israel is not a member of the ICC

So its just going to be theater.

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Response to Mosby (Reply #18)

Sun May 16, 2021, 05:20 PM

19. Theater that will matter to its allies, whether or not they're members.

Their citizens will care. US citizens will care.

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Response to Mosby (Reply #18)

Sun May 16, 2021, 06:57 PM

22. Doesn't Have To Be

They can still be found guilty of War Crimes. High government officials would have to be careful traveling outside of Israel.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #11)

Sun May 16, 2021, 08:13 PM

27. The law of proportionality is relative and open to interpretation.

Obviously the Israeli's will argue that it does not violate any laws.

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #27)

Sun May 16, 2021, 11:44 PM

30. And most of the world thinks Netanyahu's a warmonger who's doing this

to keep from going to prison for corruption.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #30)

Mon May 17, 2021, 01:28 PM

37. I understand that cynical viewpoint, but that doesn't account for the fact that the IDF

only started bombarding Gaza after Hamas started shooting missiles at innocent Israeli citizens.

As far as Bibi's legal problems go, this is just my opinion but I don't think he will ever see a day in prison regardless of how this current crisis plays out.

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #37)

Mon May 17, 2021, 01:42 PM

38. I think Thomas Friedman is right. Netanyahu and Hamas use each other

to keep the conflict going for the purpose of holding on to their power.


For Trump, Hamas, and Bibi, it is always January 6th.

By Thomas Friedman

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/16/opinion/israel-netanyahu-hamas.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

Just as a mob was unleashed by President Donald Trump to ransack our Capitol on Jan. 6 in a last-ditch effort to overturn the election results and prevent a healing unifier from becoming president, so Bibi and Hamas each exploited or nurtured their own mobs to prevent an unprecedented national unity government from emerging in Israel — a cabinet that for the first time would have included Israeli Jews and Israeli Arab Muslims together.

Like Trump, both Bibi and Hamas have kept power by inspiring and riding waves of hostility to “the other.” They turn to this tactic anytime they are in political trouble. Indeed, they each have been the other’s most valuable partner in that tactic ever since Netanyahu was first elected prime minister in 1996 — on the back of a wave of Hamas suicide bombings.

No, Hamas and Bibi don’t talk. They don’t need to. They each understand what the other needs to stay in power and consciously or unconsciously behave in ways to ensure that they deliver it.

The latest rerun of their long-running nasty show is happening now because both were staring at an amazing breakthrough shaping up between Israeli Jews and Israel Arab Muslims — and, like the pro-Trump mob on Jan. 6, they wanted to destroy the possibility of political change before it could destroy them politically.

SNIP

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #5)

Sun May 16, 2021, 03:50 PM

12. The Israeli military would say whatever it wants to justify

suppressing the media.

AP would not knowingly operate in any building that Hamas was using for any purpose. The Israeli military will never provide any evidence the building was used by Hamas.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #5)

Sun May 16, 2021, 06:54 PM

21. Let's See

1) The owner of the building, who would know, said the allegation by the fascist Likud is nonsense, and your ridiculous charge about the owner is beyond silly.

2) The Associated Press says they've never seen any evidence of a Hamas office, the BBC says they've never seen any evidence of a Hamas office, and Al Jazeera says they've never seen any evidence of a Hamas office.

3) The fascist Likud has a long track record of lying like normal people breathe. NuttyYahoo was just on 'Face the Nation' today, LYING HIS ASS OFF, over and over and over again.

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Response to WHITT (Reply #21)

Sun May 16, 2021, 08:21 PM

28. "and your ridiculous charge about the owner is beyond silly" lol

Last edited Mon May 17, 2021, 04:58 PM - Edit history (1)

Right cause no one in Gaza is afraid of Hama's they are just some boy scout charity org....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Extrajudicial_killings_of_rivals

Hamas is "listed as a terrorist organisation by Israel, the US and the EU.
The United States outlawed Hamas in 1995, as did Canada in November 2002. The European Union outlawed Hamas's military wing in 2001 and included Hamas in its list of terrorist organizations in 2003. Hamas challenged this decision but it was upheld by the European Court of Justice in July 2017. Japan, New Zealand, Australia and the United Kingdom, among others have designated the military wing of Hamas as a terrorist organization.The organization is banned in Jordan.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #28)

Sun May 16, 2021, 11:45 PM

31. Hamas and Bibi are using each other to retain power. Everyone else suffers. n/t

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #28)

Mon May 17, 2021, 09:23 PM

53. Well

1) Wikipedia is merely opinion.

2) According to the 'Geneva Declaration on Terrorism', which the U.S. is a signatory to, fighting back against Illegal Military Occupation is most definitely NOT "terrorism", no matter how many times the fascist Likud lies and claims otherwise.

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Response to WHITT (Reply #53)

Mon May 17, 2021, 09:27 PM

55. You seem confused

Last edited Mon May 17, 2021, 11:03 PM - Edit history (1)

The Israeli's pulled out of Gaza in 2005, it is not under military occupation. If it was the Israelis would have to have troops stationed inside Gaza...they do not. Them fortifying their border with the terrorist group that governs next door is not surprising. And Gaza shares a border with Egypt so they are not even surrounded by the Israelis.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #55)

Wed May 19, 2021, 09:39 AM

80. I'm Not The Confused One

Your faulty personal "definitions" do not comport with international law and UN Resolutions.

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Response to WHITT (Reply #80)

Wed May 19, 2021, 12:27 PM

86. Of which of course you can't produce any

Definitions or UN resolutions showing military occupation does not require military in the country they're occupying

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Response to WHITT (Reply #53)

Tue May 18, 2021, 03:55 PM

68. "Wikipedia is merely opinion."

Sure if you pretend to ignore the footnotes showing source material.

Studies have show it to be about as reliable as a standard encyclopedia.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #68)

Wed May 19, 2021, 09:42 AM

81. Studies, Eh?

Given the ability to edit at the drop of a hat, "wikipedia" and "reliable" are mutually exclusive.

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Response to WHITT (Reply #81)

Wed May 19, 2021, 12:25 PM

85. You do know how to read footnotes don't you

You know with links to the source material

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Response to WHITT (Reply #21)

Wed May 19, 2021, 10:23 AM

83. I oppose the srrike




But your posts seem to have a propagandist ring to them, at least to my ears.

It doesn't help your position.

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Response to WHITT (Reply #2)

Sun May 16, 2021, 04:22 PM

14. Israel showed US 'smoking gun' on Hamas in AP office tower, officials say

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/israel-showed-us-smoking-gun-on-hamas-in-ap-office-tower-officials-say-668303

Israel shared intelligence with the US showing how Hamas operated inside the same building with the Associated Press and Al-Jazeera in Gaza, officials in Jerusalem said on Sunday.

Officials in more than one government office confirmed that US President Joe Biden’s phone call to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Saturday was, in part, about the bombing of the building, and that Israel showed Biden and American officials the intelligence behind the action.

“We showed them the smoking gun proving Hamas worked out of that building,” a senior diplomatic source said. “I understand they found the explanation satisfactory.”

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu confirmed the source’s remark, when asked about The Jerusalem Post’s reporting in an interview with US TV show Face the Nation.


More:

“We share all the intelligence with our American friends,” he said. “The intelligence we had is about an intelligence office for [Hamas] housed in that building that plots and organizes terrorist attacks on Israeli civilians. It is a perfectly legit target.”

Netanyahu also remarked that there were “no deaths whatsoever” from the strike on the building, because of measures Israel takes to avoid harming civilians, including giving an advance warning.

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Response to George II (Reply #14)

Sun May 16, 2021, 04:32 PM

17. Israeli officials say. Has Biden confirmed Netanyahu's claim? n/t

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Response to George II (Reply #14)

Sun May 16, 2021, 06:58 PM

23. Fascist Likud Propaganda


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Response to WHITT (Reply #23)

Mon May 17, 2021, 05:02 PM

46. You use that word alot...of the 2, Hama's is way more fascist then democratic Israel

Gaza last had a election when? 2006

Fascism is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy.
Hama's fits that description very well. Israel not at all.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #46)

Mon May 17, 2021, 09:26 PM

54. What?

There are no polital parties on the planet to the right of the RightWing Extremist Fascist Likud.

Not my job to defend Hamas, but clearly they are nowhere on the RightWing spectrum.

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Response to WHITT (Reply #54)

Mon May 17, 2021, 09:29 PM

57. Actually hard line Islamist are fairly right wing

What liberal or left-wing positions do you believe they hold?
Pro women's rights no, pro-abortion no, pro-democracy no, pro-religious freedom no, pro trans rights no, pro abolishment of death penalty no, etc

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sun May 16, 2021, 02:29 PM

3. LOL I'm sure Israel is quaking in their boots at the thoughts of being invesitgated

The Israeli government didn't seem to care about consequences when they attacked the USS Liberty so I highly doubt they will care about the hand-wringing of journalists over an empty building being blown up.

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Response to Devil Child (Reply #3)

Wed May 19, 2021, 09:13 PM

96. This is seen time and time again, and no-one seems to get it.

Israel is free to do what they want, because they don't care what the world thinks.

Stories like this bombing take hold because the news business has to fill up the 24x7 news programs.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sun May 16, 2021, 02:40 PM

6. Stop the media from reporting what is happening. eom

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #6)

Sun May 16, 2021, 03:21 PM

9. I dunno, seems to me like they're still reporting just fine.

The hand-wringing over this strikes me as peculiar, given that the IDF gave AP and other news orgs a heads up that the building was going to be hit with an airstrike. They had plenty of time to evacuate their personnel and equipment. That doesn't seem to me like IDF were "targeting" journalists, since no journalists were injured or killed.

If they'd hit the building with an airstrike and then said, "Oh gosh, we had no idea there were journalists in there," that'd be something else altogether.

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #9)

Sun May 16, 2021, 07:02 PM

24. All Their Archives Were Destroyed

It also clearly inhibits their reporting of the fascist Likud's War Crimes. So they committed a War Crime to diminish journalists ability to report their War Crimes.

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Response to WHITT (Reply #24)

Sun May 16, 2021, 07:08 PM

25. Blowing up an empty building is a war crime? Somehow I doubt that. N/T

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #25)

Sun May 16, 2021, 07:21 PM

26. Demolishing Journalist's Offices

to diminish their ability to report your War Crimes is a War Crime. Yes.

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Response to WHITT (Reply #26)

Sun May 16, 2021, 10:43 PM

29. Is it really? Can you please cite the convention or law which states that? N/T

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #29)

Mon May 17, 2021, 07:29 AM

35. I Don't Really Have The Time

I already know it's a War Crime, and the head of the Associated Press just publicly confirmed it's a War Crime. If you want to read the specific convention, knock yourself out.


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Response to WHITT (Reply #35)

Mon May 17, 2021, 03:03 PM

40. You asserted it so it's on you to prove it.

A statement from the head of the AP isn't proof. If the Israelis had blown up a building full of journalists while attacking Hamas, you'd have a point.

But they didn't, so you don't.

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #40)

Mon May 17, 2021, 03:41 PM

42. Are Your Fingers Broke?

I already know it's a War Crime.

The AP already knows it's a War Crime.

Amnesty International already knows it's a War Crime.

I don't need to jump through hoops.



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Response to WHITT (Reply #42)

Mon May 17, 2021, 03:45 PM

43. Again, you asserted it so it's on you to prove it.

That's how it works. I'm not doing your homework for you. If you can't or don't wanna, that's fine. Blowing up an empty building isn't a war crime just because you think it is. Show me some proof for the claim.

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #43)

Mon May 17, 2021, 03:53 PM

44. If You Don't Want To Know

that's your prerogative.

I don't jump through hoops on demand for easily available and already well-known facts.


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Response to WHITT (Reply #44)

Mon May 17, 2021, 04:02 PM

45. If it's so easily available and well-known, give me a link.

Show me where blowing up an empty building without any casualties is a war crime. You could have done that two posts ago. Instead, you went to a lot of effort to avoid going through that effort. Are your fingers broken?

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #45)

Mon May 17, 2021, 05:07 PM

49. I think the poster who calls everything the IDF does a war crime and nothing Hama's does..

...will continue to duck that question.

They have also said:

Unguided rockets CANNOT POSSIBLY be a "direct attack on civilians"

and that Gaza is under a "Illegal Military Occupation" even though the Israeli's pulled out in 2005. Apparently they "occupy" it from across the border...lol

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15437240

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #49)

Mon May 17, 2021, 06:07 PM

51. The ducking of the question is unsurprising.

I can't imagine for a moment that Hamas would hide behind foreign journalists. After all, it's not as if they hide behind their own women and children, is it?

Hamas deliberately launching rockets from schools and hospitals into civilian areas? Not a war crime.

Israel warns the occupants of the building that a strike is coming, gives them an hour to evacuate, then blows up an empty building? OMG war crime!!1oneeleven

Hamas cares more about killing Jews than they do about protecting their own people. If they don't care, why should the Israelis? The fact that Israel bothers at all says a lot, in my opinion.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #49)

Mon May 17, 2021, 09:34 PM

59. Yep

Gaza is under a "Illegal Military Occupation" even though the Israeli's pulled out in 2005. Apparently they "occupy" it from across the border...lol


EXACTLY! LOL!

The IDF pulled out, but they barricaded the borders, militarized the checkpoints, blockaded the sea, control the Palestinian airspace, and control all the utilities and water & sewer services.

They turned Gaza into the largest outdoor prison on the planet.

It's STILL Illegal Military Occupation.

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Response to WHITT (Reply #59)

Mon May 17, 2021, 09:38 PM

60. Military occupation requires occupation

It's right there in the title.

And Gaza shares a border with Egypt which Israel does not control.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #60)

Mon May 17, 2021, 09:42 PM

61. Nope


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Response to WHITT (Reply #61)

Mon May 17, 2021, 09:45 PM

62. Perhaps you should look up the definition of military occupation

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #62)

Tue May 18, 2021, 12:56 AM

64. Perhaps You Should Read UN Resolutions


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Response to WHITT (Reply #64)

Tue May 18, 2021, 04:02 PM

70. "Perhaps You Should Read UN Resolutions"

Except there is no UN Resolution calling Gaza under foreign military occupation...because it isn't...unless you want to count the Iranian backed Hamas and Islamic Jihad groups as the occupier's, which I am sure some Gazan's do.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #70)

Wed May 19, 2021, 09:44 AM

82. OK

Remain Uninformed If You Choose

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Response to WHITT (Reply #82)

Wed May 19, 2021, 12:24 PM

84. Well your choice has been obvious

So I gather you can't find a UN resolution to support your military occupation theory. Color me surprised

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #45)

Mon May 17, 2021, 09:31 PM

58. I Told You More Than Five Hours Ago

I didn't have the time. Now given your belligerence, I just don't care.

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Response to WHITT (Reply #58)

Mon May 17, 2021, 10:38 PM

63. Color me unsurprised.

You had the time to comment twice. Simply providing the proof to back up your assertion would have been far less effort. Instead, though, you duck the question and then bemoan the "belligerence" of someone who merely asked you to back up your assertion. Telling, that.

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #25)

Mon May 17, 2021, 05:20 AM

32. Giving civilians only an hour's notice to evacuate before blowing up the building they live and work

in, is very likely one yes.

It was offices and residential. How many people lost years of work? How much valuable equipment and files were destroyed? How many people were unemployed and made homeless?

AP has called for an independent international investigation into this, because they're fucking investigative journalists, and they did years of security checks for possible terrorism in the building because they didn't want to put their staff at risk. They found none.

I trust AP's word on this a lot more than I trust Netanyahu's government, because only the latter has reason to lie. LOTS of reason to lie.

https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-israel-business-israel-palestinian-conflict-government-and-politics-abd641af1607fbae7f49e1cce7dbc49e

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Response to Withywindle (Reply #32)

Mon May 17, 2021, 05:25 AM

33. Targeting media is fascism 101

Not just AP and Al-Jazeera, but lots of other media outlets had offices in that building.

There is NO credible evidence released that Hamas had any presence there at all. It's just IDF saying "we say so, so it must be true."

I don't take IDF's press releases at face value without evidence.

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Response to Withywindle (Reply #32)

Mon May 17, 2021, 03:12 PM

41. So let me get this straight.

Giving people an hour to evacuate ahead of an airstrike is a war crime? It's a war crime because people lost stuff? It's a war crime because people are homeless now? By your logic, just about every airstrike is a war crime, then.

Israel shared their intelligence with the US government. You'd think the Biden administration would have commented on an obvious war crime, don't you? But they haven't.

Israel is under no obligation to share their intelligence with you, the AP, Al Jazeera, or any other news organization.

By the way, Hamas is launching unguided rockets and deliberately targeting civilian areas. Seems awful war-crimey, doesn't it?

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #9)

Mon May 17, 2021, 05:06 PM

47. Targeting civilians violates International Law,

The Israeli Government has no problem with this.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #47)

Mon May 17, 2021, 05:09 PM

50. "The Israeli Government has no problem with this."

Actually they do have a problem with it, that's why they are attacking Hama's infrastructure to prevent the Hama's targeting of Israeli civilians with mass rocket attacks.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #50)

Tue May 18, 2021, 01:21 PM

65. Nonsense. Israel is targeting civilians,

and claiming otherwise. As to "mass rocket attacks", there are remarkably few casualties.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #65)

Tue May 18, 2021, 03:42 PM

67. Nonsense back at ya..

If Israel was targeting civilians there would be 1,000's of casualties, not scores.
There wouldn't be any if the terrorist group Hamas did not purposely use civilian human shields.
Also taking Hamas civilian casualty reports at face value is ridiculous, I believe their reports like I do other terrorist groups like the Taliban and ISIS, may be a grain of truth but you can bet they inflate the numbers for a PR bonus.

As to "mass rocket attacks", there are remarkably few casualties.

How would you quantify thousands of long range rockets fired into Israel? A few?
Remarkably few casualties because between Iron Dome missile defense and bomb shelters the Israelis are prepared for Hamas trying to kill as many Israeli civilians as they can.
Just because Hamas is bad at it does not change what they are trying to do.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #47)

Mon May 17, 2021, 06:10 PM

52. I mean...

Seems to me Israel goes out of its way not to target civilians as much as they can, given that they warn occupants to leave ahead of airstrikes. Hamas also cowers behind their own women and children, so it's 100% on brand for them to hide behind foreign journalists.

Speaking of targeting civilians, launching rockets directly into civilian areas seems like it'd be a war crime too, but I don't seem to see a lot of outrage directed at Hamas around here. Curious, that.

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #52)

Tue May 18, 2021, 01:22 PM

66. The Israeli Government targets civilians,

but they claim that every civilian is actually a terrorist.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #66)

Tue May 18, 2021, 04:24 PM

71. If they were deliberately targeting civilians, the death toll would be way higher.

Israel targets Hamas. You know, those noble freedom fighters who hide behind their own women and children while deliberately launching unguided rockets into civilian areas?

If Hamas doesn't give a shit about their own civilians, why should the Israelis? And yet, they warn residents of incoming strikes.

Neither side is 100% virtuous here, but one side is most certainly better than the other when it comes to not deliberately killing civilians. That side is not Hamas.

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #71)

Tue May 18, 2021, 04:26 PM

72. The narrative was the same in Vietnam, and Afghanistan,

and other modern conflicts.

Attack civilians and claim that they are terrorists.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #72)

Tue May 18, 2021, 05:14 PM

73. It's cool how you totally sidestepped everything I said and just repeated your assertion.

Neat rhetorical tactic, that.

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #73)

Tue May 18, 2021, 05:38 PM

74. You assume that because the casualty numbers are relatively low,

at this point, that this proves intent by the Israelis. I disagree.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #74)

Tue May 18, 2021, 05:56 PM

75. Well, if Israeli is deliberately targeting Palestinian civilians, they're doing a terrible job.

And again, you neatly sidestep things you don't want to address.

If Hamas hides behind women and children to launch rockets at Israeli civilians, what are the Israelis to do? Wring their hands and do nothing? Ask Hamas nicely if they'd be so kind as to not cower behind civilians? They're doing the only thing that makes sense when facing an enemy that doesn't care a whit about its own civilians: striking back while doing what they can to minimize civilian casualties.

I won't ask you to condemn Hamas launching rockets with the intent of killing Israeli civilians, because I doubt very much that you would. Would you at least condemn Hamas for hiding behind their own civilians and using them as human shields?

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #75)

Tue May 18, 2021, 05:59 PM

76. Hamas came into being in the late 1980s.

The land theft and civilian casualties started in 1948.

Google "King David Hotel bombing", or "Deir Yassin", or "Irgun" or "Stern".

After that research, let us speak of terror, and targeting civilians.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #76)

Tue May 18, 2021, 06:04 PM

77. Yet another rhetorical sidestep and deflection.

I asked a simple question. If you're unwilling to answer it, that tells me all I need to know.

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #77)

Tue May 18, 2021, 06:06 PM

78. Your speed at research is amazing.

So what did you find out about those 4 issues?

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #78)

Tue May 18, 2021, 06:16 PM

79. Your artful dodging is amazing, too. I'll answer your question when you answer mine. N/T

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #78)

Wed May 19, 2021, 02:29 PM

87. "So what did you find out about those 4 issues"

All things which predate the democratic State of Israel and are therefore fairly irrelevant to the current situation.
Has Hamas brought those ancient issues up or just your attempt at deflection?

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #87)

Wed May 19, 2021, 03:08 PM

88. If one builds on a weak foundation, the structure will be unstable.

Those things which you dismiss are foundational to an understanding of the issue.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #88)

Wed May 19, 2021, 04:12 PM

89. Things that happened before the founding of modern day Israel

.. are not currently relevant.
Otherwise we can go back all the way to the Romans if you like

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #89)

Wed May 19, 2021, 05:23 PM

90. By that logic, the US civil war has no bearing on current issues in the US.

People have long memories. History is not so easily rewritten.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #90)

Wed May 19, 2021, 05:29 PM

91. The civil war does not predate the US

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #91)

Wed May 19, 2021, 05:32 PM

92. Palestinians in Palestine predate the Israeli State.

Again, failing to examine root causes and background will lead to erroneous conclusions.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #92)

Wed May 19, 2021, 07:13 PM

93. Hamas is not firing rockets into Israel because of something Irgun or Stern did in 1930's

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #93)

Wed May 19, 2021, 07:33 PM

94. Google the term blowback,

and remember that the Turks and Armenians are still arguing about a war that ended 100 years ago.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #94)

Wed May 19, 2021, 08:20 PM

95. Yes Hamas is currently experiencing blowback

From their rocket attacks on the civilians of Israel

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sun May 16, 2021, 03:12 PM

7. It Looked More Like A Controlled Implosion Than....

an airstrike - the way the building came down.

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Response to global1 (Reply #7)

Wed May 19, 2021, 09:17 PM

97. I've noticed that as well.

I guess it is just the advancements in weapons technology. If SpaceX can land a rocket on a barge, then I guess it is no surprise that you can put bombs in just the right place to bring down a single building like this.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sun May 16, 2021, 05:37 PM

20. Horrific.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon May 17, 2021, 06:44 AM

34. Punishing the innocent as Official Policy

This is just a very public example of an illegal ongoing practice of house demolishing in retaliation, done immediately after a violent act against Israel, also as a means to punish innocent neighbors.

In a typical demolition like this soldiers normally give the occupants as little as one hour to remove their possessions from the house. Punishing the innocent as Official Policy...

https://www.btselem.org/publications/summaries/200411_punitive_house_demolitions

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon May 17, 2021, 10:24 AM

36. If it turns out AP was sharing a building with Hamas

Maybe we should investigate the AP.

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Response to ripcord (Reply #36)

Mon May 17, 2021, 05:06 PM

48. Proof of this? eom

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Response to ripcord (Reply #36)

Mon May 17, 2021, 09:28 PM

56. You are aware that Faux is pushing this.

So I'm bookmarking to do more reading. Not yet convinced this is true.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon May 17, 2021, 02:00 PM

39. Does it really matter

- if Hamas was not there, you cannot prove a negative. Those who believe the attack was justified will continue to believe that.

- if Hamas was there those who have made up their minds won't accept any evidence from Israel. Even if Hamas admitted they were using the building and published pictures of their last office pot luck it would be denied as a false flag.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #39)

Tue May 18, 2021, 04:00 PM

69. Of course you can prove a negative

It's a common trope that you cannot.

But the burden of proof is on Israel to prove Hamas was operating in that building, which Israel has not done.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Wed May 19, 2021, 09:23 PM

98. The fact that DU is so divided on this war

makes it clear what the overall US public thinks. And taking that further, it seems to me that most of the western world doesn't really care about the people of the Gaza Strip.

If Israel would have been created 100 years earlier, we wouldn't hear much about the Palestinians - just ask the American Indians.

edit to fix typo

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