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Sun May 23, 2021, 11:18 PM

Bernie Sanders: Progressives Should 'Tone Down' Calling Israel An 'Apartheid' State

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Omaha Steve (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: Huffpost

Sen. Bernie Sanders said Sunday that his fellow progressives should “tone down the rhetoric” when it comes to language ― such as “apartheid” ― used to describe Israel’s treatment of Palestinians.

The Vermont left-leaning independent sat down with CBS’s John Dickerson on “Face the Nation.” Dickerson pointed out that a number of progressives, some in the House, have called Israel an apartheid state amid the violence between militant group Hamas ― which has power over Gaza ― and the Israeli government.

Dickerson pointed out the rising anti-Semitic attacks in the U.S., with the Anti-Defamation League reporting 193 incidents this week, an increase from 131 the previous week. The correspondent also said that American Jewish Congress Executive Director Joel Rubin ― who handled Jewish outreach for Sanders’ campaign ― has said that using the word “apartheid” is a contributing factor to the increased attacks.

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Sanders, like other progressives and advocates for Palestinian human rights, has said that it is possible to be a critic of Israeli policy without being anti-Semitic. The senator told Dickerson that it is extremely important to combat the rising anti-Semitic attacks both in the U.S. and around the world, just as it is extremely important to combat hate crimes directed at Asians, Latinos and Black people.

Read more: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-progressives-tone-down-israel-apartheid_n_60aaeedee4b031354798b3aa

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Reply Bernie Sanders: Progressives Should 'Tone Down' Calling Israel An 'Apartheid' State (Original post)
Beastly Boy May 2021 OP
brush May 2021 #1
Post removed May 2021 #2
Pinback May 2021 #4
Dan May 2021 #3
speak easy May 2021 #5
Magoo48 May 2021 #17
WHITT May 2021 #7
AllTooEasy May 2021 #12
WHITT May 2021 #23
PSPS May 2021 #6
WHITT May 2021 #8
JI7 May 2021 #9
angrychair May 2021 #13
George II May 2021 #20
WHITT May 2021 #24
Mawspam2 May 2021 #10
OldBaldy1701E May 2021 #15
concretebluetwo May 2021 #11
BlueMTexpat May 2021 #14
Beastly Boy May 2021 #16
George II May 2021 #19
Beastly Boy May 2021 #22
WHITT May 2021 #25
Beastly Boy May 2021 #27
WHITT May 2021 #28
George II May 2021 #18
WHITT May 2021 #21
Beastly Boy May 2021 #26
Omaha Steve May 2021 #29

Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)

Sun May 23, 2021, 11:22 PM

1. Bernie, Bernie, Bernie. How about calling Netanyahu's...

government apartheid then? Because it is what it is.

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Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #2)

Sun May 23, 2021, 11:41 PM

4. "anti-Jewish"?

Being anti-Israeli government is not the same as being anti-Jewish. I know Israel is generally referred to as "the Jewish state," but there are plenty of Jews around the world -- and inside Israel -- who oppose the Israeli government's policies toward the Palestinians.

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Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)

Sun May 23, 2021, 11:28 PM

3. If the noun fits....

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Response to Dan (Reply #3)

Sun May 23, 2021, 11:50 PM

5. Well actually it does not.

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Response to speak easy (Reply #5)

Mon May 24, 2021, 08:35 AM

17. Please, make your case.

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Response to Dan (Reply #3)

Mon May 24, 2021, 12:12 AM

7. Exactly


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Response to WHITT (Reply #7)

Mon May 24, 2021, 02:51 AM

12. Not Exactly. It's the Likuds. Don't Generalize


Israel has about 10 political parties, and 2 coalitions. The right-wing coalition is worse than Trump’s base. Let’s direct our anger and political action at them

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Response to AllTooEasy (Reply #12)

Mon May 24, 2021, 09:25 AM

23. Except

Dan is correct, the noun, BY DEFINITION, is quite apropos. No generalization.

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Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)

Mon May 24, 2021, 12:04 AM

6. "Apartheid" has now become an anti-Semitic reference? Were there lots of Jews in South Africa?

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Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)

Mon May 24, 2021, 12:15 AM

8. Really?

Sanders, like other progressives and advocates for Palestinian human rights, has said that it is possible to be a critic of Israeli policy without being anti-Semitic.


Not according to the fascist Likud.

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Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)

Mon May 24, 2021, 12:17 AM

9. Islamic extremists have hijacked this issue for their own shitty agenda

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Response to JI7 (Reply #9)

Mon May 24, 2021, 03:20 AM

13. Think so?

So its not the Israeli government beating and killing innocent Palestinian civilians and stealing their homes and land?

Interesting...

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Response to JI7 (Reply #9)

Mon May 24, 2021, 08:55 AM

20. Exactly. I think they use the word "apartheid" because people who see it instantly think "bad" but..

...for the wrong reasons.

What's going on in the middle east by no means is good, but it certainly is not "apartheid".

Notice that no one who uses that word attempts to explain why it's "apartheid"? Because a logical discussion of the situation will demonstrate that it's not.

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Response to George II (Reply #20)

Mon May 24, 2021, 09:27 AM

24. It Is, By Definition, Apartheid


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Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)

Mon May 24, 2021, 12:45 AM

10. Sanders is right, Israel is not an apartheid state...

...it is much worse. Israel is a state dedicated to the extinction of Palestine and Palestinians through slow and deliberate genocide.

Sadly, the USA, because of the false sense of "Democracy", allows Israel to get away with it.

There is not now and never was a "Two State" solution. That was always the bulls**t excuse that allowed the world to turn its back on the Palestinians.

There will only be one state, and that state will be Israel, and the United States will be just as guilty as anyone in seeing every single Palestinian wiped from the face of the Earth.

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Response to Mawspam2 (Reply #10)

Mon May 24, 2021, 07:48 AM

15. Well

Sadly, the USA, because of the false sense of "salvation", allows Israel to get away with it.


This is more accurate. Thanks to the 'faithful', our nation is beholden to them. We can't interfere with our 'salvation' after all!

(3 billion a year goes to Israel. Think about that. We have bridges collapsing and people starving here in the US, but we would rather send 3 billion a year to people who do what they keep on doing to their neighbors, and all in the name of not pissing off the 'Sky Dude'. And people wonder why I am so cynical about this country, and humans in general...)

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Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)

Mon May 24, 2021, 01:41 AM

11. I love Bernie, but.....

"American Jewish Congress Executive Director Joel Rubin ― who handled Jewish outreach for Sanders’ campaign ― has said that using the word “apartheid” is a contributing factor to the increased attacks"
Is this why Bernie said this?
Does Mr Rubin have any data to support his claim?
I would love to see a timeline showing the rise in anti-semitic violence compared to usage of the word "apartheid" to describe the Israeli government's actions towards the Palestinians.

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Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)

Mon May 24, 2021, 05:04 AM

14. WTF!

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Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)

Mon May 24, 2021, 08:23 AM

16. It's remarkable how widespread the misuse of the term "apartheid" has beome.

By definition, apartheid is a policy of legally, physically and socially separating different groups of residents of a state or territory on the basis of differences in appearance or genetics, but not on ethnic or religious grounds. One only has to look at a Palestinian and a Jew side by side, or compare their respective DNA, to see how ill-fitting the application of the term is with respect to Israel's Jews and Palestinians. There is virtually no difference between them on these grounds. Considering how far the definition of the term is removed from the reality of how the term is being applied towards Israel (and there can be no mistake that it is being applied to the State of Israel rather than any definable elements in Israeli government or society), it is easy to conclude that "apartheid" is being widely used as a derogatory term in Israel's case. Commonly, it is being used in anger and not, for obvious reasons partly stated above, as part of a rational argument.

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Response to Beastly Boy (Reply #16)

Mon May 24, 2021, 08:44 AM

19. I'm glad this is finally being discussed. It's been bothering me for months, seeing the word...

...being totally misused.

What is going on in the Mideast is most certainly NOT "apartheid". But the negative connotation of the word makes it too easy to throw around to describe something that is wrong.

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Response to George II (Reply #19)

Mon May 24, 2021, 09:24 AM

22. Same goes for "fascist" and "racist".

No matter how inapplicable these terms are to Israel, I keep hearing them again and again, never in the context of rational discourse, but exclusively as slurs.

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Response to Beastly Boy (Reply #16)

Mon May 24, 2021, 09:32 AM

25. Eh

The fascist Likud has the Palestinians in Gaza imprisoned within the largest outdoor prison on the planet.


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Response to WHITT (Reply #25)

Mon May 24, 2021, 09:36 AM

27. There you go!

An inflammatory metaphor in response to a well established definition of the term. Thank you for illustrating my point.

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Response to Beastly Boy (Reply #27)

Mon May 24, 2021, 09:48 AM

28. The Only Things "Well Established"

are that the Likud are fascists, presiding over an Apartheid state. No metaphors required.


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Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)

Mon May 24, 2021, 08:41 AM

18. The word "apartheid" has such a negative connotation that many use it incorrectly to highlight....

....something that is wrong, hoping many will not look into the details and facts of the situation they're calling "apartheid".

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Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)

Mon May 24, 2021, 09:21 AM

21. Nope

Bernie Sanders: Progressives Should 'Tone Down' Calling Israel An 'Apartheid' State


Sen. Bernie Sanders said Sunday that his fellow progressives should “tone down the rhetoric” when it comes to language ― such as “apartheid” ― used to describe Israel’s treatment of Palestinians.


BOTH of those statements are FALSE.

From the transcript:

JOHN DICKERSON: There are a number of liberals who use the word apartheid to describe Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, a number of them liberals in the House who use that language. The executive director of the American Jewish Congress, who handled Jewish outreach for your campaign, has said that that word, Joel Rubin, has said that using that word has increased the level of vitriol that has contributed to this anti-Semitism. Do you think those who- who share your view should not use that kind of language?

SEN. SANDERS: Well, I think we should tone down the rhetoric.


Sanders DID NOT state that "Progressives Should 'Tone Down' Calling Israel An 'Apartheid' State", and Sanders DID NOT state that "Sen. Bernie Sanders said Sunday that his fellow progressives should “tone down the rhetoric” when it comes to language ― such as 'apartheid'."

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Response to WHITT (Reply #21)

Mon May 24, 2021, 09:32 AM

26. Don't you think Bernie's remark was made in the context of the preceeding question?

Don't you think that "we should tone down the rhetoric" refers to "There are a number of liberals who use the word apartheid to describe Israel's treatment of Palestinians"?

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Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)

Mon May 24, 2021, 09:49 AM

29. After a review by forum hosts....LOCKING

NOT important news.

Post the latest news from reputable mainstream news websites and blogs. Important news of national interest only. No analysis or opinion pieces. No duplicates. News stories must have been published within the last 12 hours. Use the published title of the story as the title of the discussion thread.

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