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Thu Jun 10, 2021, 09:17 AM

Jewish Democrats clash with Ilhan Omar after comments on U.S. and Israel

Source: Axios

A group of Jewish Democrats in the House is publicly feuding with Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) after she tweeted about "unthinkable atrocities committed by the U.S., Hamas, Israel, Afghanistan, and the Taliban," in reference to investigations by the International Criminal Court.

Why it matters: The fight threatens to reopen a fault line within the party that could cost Omar her seat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, writes Punchbowl News.

The House previously passed a resolution by Democrats condemning anti-Semitism in response to comments on Israel by Omar, and Republicans have long accused the Minnesota congresswoman of anti-Semitism — a charge she denies.

Unlike the 2019 resolution, a statement issued by Democrats late Wednesday called out Omar by name.

Read more: https://www.axios.com/ilhan-omar-israel-hamas-democrats-7e778e8d-ba62-4d41-a17e-01235cc9709d.html

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Reply Jewish Democrats clash with Ilhan Omar after comments on U.S. and Israel (Original post)
Calista241 Jun 10 OP
The Magistrate Jun 10 #1
cloudythescribbler Jun 10 #2
The Magistrate Jun 10 #3
Mysterian Jun 10 #4
choie Jun 10 #5
Red Mountain Jun 10 #23
Mysterian Jun 10 #24
Red Mountain Jun 10 #22
ForgoTheConsequence Jun 10 #6
George II Jun 10 #16
question everything Jun 10 #17
Jedi Guy Jun 10 #19
Chainfire Jun 10 #7
ShepKat Jun 10 #8
2naSalit Jun 10 #20
DanieRains Jun 10 #9
Jose Garcia Jun 10 #13
mntleo2 Jun 10 #25
LetMyPeopleVote Jun 10 #10
elleng Jun 10 #11
elleng Jun 10 #12
DanieRains Jun 10 #14
Cryptoad Jun 10 #15
question everything Jun 10 #18
róisín_dubh Jun 11 #27
Violet_Crumble Jun 11 #28
ck4829 Jun 11 #30
Sapient Donkey Jun 11 #33
2naSalit Jun 10 #21
Calista241 Jun 10 #26
Violet_Crumble Jun 11 #29
ck4829 Jun 11 #31
Sapient Donkey Jun 11 #32

Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 09:26 AM

1. It Is Worth Noting, Ma'am

That no one on that list has not done things in this century that would make it liable to sit in the dock of an international court which had teeth and the cooperation of all governments.

Regardless of its accuracy, making the statement at present was unwise and self-indulgent.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:28 AM

2. but the accuracy of the statement is at the CORE of progressive politics

The point is not to take a "US out of North America" attitude as I call it, but to recognize the serious atrocities the US, and allies like Israel have committed and continue to commit and to mobilize for a progressive alternative.

What I think is unwise and self-indulgent is for the mainstream liberals to pursue these things and make a stink in order to coopt the Republicans' use of them. They tried that w/the (in fact atrocious any-way-you-slice-it) comments of Khalid Abdul Muhammed in 1994 and got no less shellacked in the 94 elections.

The flogging of the Left is rarely productive for the Democrats, even in "pragmatic" terms. I do agree that the modulated approach of Bernie on Israel (like his op-ed in the NY Times during the bombing of Gaza) is more likely to broaden the base of support for Palestinian rights.

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Reply #2)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:56 AM

3. You Make Good Points, Sir

I do not consider the response any wiser or more useful than her statement. I agree completely that no good ever comes from trying to head off criticism from the right --- they'll do it anyway, so support one another and be damned to them.

I do not agree Rep. Omar's statement is anything like the core of progressive politics, but that is not something to pursue here. I do agree these things should be acknowledged all around, and point out this will also require curbing a tendency to see anti-colonial motives as excusing criminal use of armed force.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 11:01 AM

4. The unjustified invasion of Iraq was a war crime by any reasonable standards

But there will never be "an international court which had teeth and the cooperation of all governments" to hold the war criminals accountable. Not because of the lack of war crimes, but because of the economic and political power of the USA.

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Response to Mysterian (Reply #4)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 11:19 AM

5. Very true, Mysterian

n/t

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Response to Mysterian (Reply #4)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 07:55 PM

23. Power

Power comes with privilege.

Right? Not by any moral based zero sum definition of right and wrong. In retrospect it surely looks like a mistake especially if you try and estimate the number of lives lost/ruined given our actions versus the number had we done nothing.

Hindsight is clear.

Don't do it again.

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Response to Red Mountain (Reply #23)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 08:16 PM

24. The Iraq invasion was clearly unjustified at the time it was launched

That's why so many civilized nations did not join the corrupt Bush cabal's "coalition of the willing." They saw through the lies. It will be an eternal disgrace upon many American politicians who voted to authoriz the Iraq war - at least the intelligent ones who knew better.

The enemy was in Afghanistan. We invaded Iraq based on obvious lies by criminals. We allowed the enemy to escape into Pakistan because insufficient forces were sent to Afghanistan.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 07:46 PM

22. Agreed

Hard to be a politician without restraint.

Politician is not the same as elected official. For examples: See Republican party.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 12:00 PM

6. Bipartisanship when it comes to attacking a woman of color.

But not infrastructure or covid relief. What a country.

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Response to ForgoTheConsequence (Reply #6)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 03:45 PM

16. Two points:

1. They're not "attacking" her, they're commenting on things she said that were offensive to them.

2. The fact that she's a "woman of color" is irrelevant. She made comments that were offensive to several members of Congress and I'm sure many Americans. They could have been said by a white man, a purple cow, a green turkey and they would have been equally offensive.

Why do you zero in on her gender and race instead of what she actually said?

And what is this gratuitous comment about "bipartisanship"? The statement by the Members of Congress are all DEMOCRATIC members!

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Response to George II (Reply #16)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 04:15 PM

17. +1

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Response to George II (Reply #16)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 04:38 PM

19. "Why do you zero in on her gender and race instead of what she actually said?"

Because it's easier and more convenient to frame it as an attack on her race/gender than to acknowledge that she said something offensive to some folks. It also flips the narrative from "why would she say that?" to "oh bless her heart, she's so put upon." This is not unfamiliar territory for Omar, unfortunately.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 12:05 PM

7. Help me out here

Are we arguing that the alleged crimes are not as important as the politics? It is a question of needing to reach a certain numerical threshold of atrocity before it can be protested?

Of Course Omar is accused of being antiemetic; anyone who is not in lock-step with Israeli politics and policy is labeled as anti-Semitic.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 12:12 PM

8. well...

she isn't wrong

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Response to ShepKat (Reply #8)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 06:13 PM

20. Exactly.

Welcome to DU!

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 12:16 PM

9. I Can't Say What I Really Think Because I Will Lose My Account Posting The Truth

It is worse for us than it is for anyone who supports the Palestinian's right to have homes. Safe homes.

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Response to DanieRains (Reply #9)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 03:05 PM

13. Good

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Response to DanieRains (Reply #9)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 09:14 PM

25. Funny I was thinking the same thing

I have marched with the parents of the young woman Racheal (cannot recall her last name) who was deliberately run over by an Israeli steam shovel. But I also have seen outright hatred of Muslim people while pretending the haters were not being racist, sexists or anti-religious. Yeah right. If we want to stop another death camp we need to stop ALL hatred. All of it!!!

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 12:28 PM

10. For this thread

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Reply #10)


Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 02:34 PM

12. Putin (+ gingrich, f-x, mcconnell etc) love this.

'Thanks so much, folks.'

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 03:06 PM

14. I Just Donated To Omar Again

Last edited Thu Jun 10, 2021, 03:46 PM - Edit history (1)

It takes courage to speak out against bad people doing bad things just like other bad people.

What happened during Shock and Awe?

That's right.

Lots of people who never attacked us died.

But they had oil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 03:11 PM

15. I guess they didn't get the memo that,,,,,

none on that list passed teh purity test ,,,,,,and to believe that that real atrocities only exist if they heard before the a world court, is foolish.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 04:22 PM

18. Is it too much to expect a former refugee - who was welcomed in this country with

open arms and easily followed a path to high public office - not to describe this adopting country as a terrorist?

And, yes Hamas and the Taliban are considered terrorist organisations.

I’d this country is a criminal organisation, why, then, are so many risking their lives to get here?

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Response to question everything (Reply #18)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 02:32 AM

27. I'm trying to figure out a nice way to respond.

But I can’t so I’ll just

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Response to question everything (Reply #18)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 08:41 AM

28. What has her having been a refugee got to do with anything?

Your post makes it sound like because she wasn't born in the US, she's somehow less worthy as a US citizen and must be eternally grateful. What entitlement it must take to not comprehend that just because refugees from war torn countries end up in the US, that doesn't mean the US is a wonderful place and their choice of destination. Most don't get any choice.

But kudos to you for not making it about her race or her being a woman, because there's a bunch of people in other threads saying that's not on!

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #28)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 08:57 AM

30. It is kinda funny really

We had a whole bunch of people vote for a guy who said "Make America Great Again" - "Again"? Are they saying America is not great right now? Why weren't they grateful to be in the US in this age?

We have people who voted for a guy who said the US was "great" before the civil war "even though, you know, there was *some* slavery issues" but now the US is the "focus of evil in the world". Nobody ever made THEIR ungratefulness an issue, and boy, they didn't just not appreciate the US, but it seems like they also don't appreciate indoor plumbing, electronics, or antibiotics. Nobody made a push to ask Roy Moore's voters if they were going to give up those things, since they clearly make the US evil.

But Ilhan Omar says something and she is ungrateful? I can think of a reason why there is such a disparity.

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Response to question everything (Reply #18)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 11:58 AM

33. We should be able to look internally and reflect on our actions as a nation

We should be self-critical of ourselves and call out the mistakes and sometimes the purposeful harm we cause in addition to talk about how awesome we are and the good we do. We should have that balance. I don't view her comments as saying the US is the same as the Taliban or Hamas, but rather simply stating that the US has also done things that are bad and that need to be acknowledged so that we can avoid doing it in the future. She can affect US and to some extent Israeli actions, but has limited power over what Hamas or the Taliban do.

Really though, the US probably causes more harm because of the scale of US actions. The US isn't tied to just a single region, but rather the US is doing something in all parts of the world. I think the US does a lot of good on a scale that no other nation can do too (something often ignored by left-of-center folks) Also, if we were to scale the Taliban up to the US level of power, then I'm certain that is not a world I would want to live in.

The black and white thinking makes any sort of progress difficult. We should acknowledge our flaws in addition to those of groups like the Taliban. I think that also gives more credibility when calling out the atrocities of others. Which is something I think we'll need to have to do a lot in the coming decades as China spreads it wings even further.

*yeah, I know. I'm all over the place here.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 06:16 PM

21. I find it interesting that whenever this woman speaks truth...

She is condemned for her honesty. I happen to agree with her.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #21)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:20 PM

26. I think that it's arguable if what she says is true.

In any case, i think telling everyone they’re a country full of murderers and war criminals is not a great “vote for us strategy.”

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #26)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 08:47 AM

29. What she said is definitely true. She didn't say the US was full of murderers...

Did you read her tweet? Where does it say the US is full of murderers? Also, do you disagree with the first sentence, which is in my opinion far more important than carrying on about her daring to point out the fact that both the US and Israel have carried out atrocities?


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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #29)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 09:07 AM

31. I said last night if you look up "atrocity" and the full depth of what it means, you'll be shocked

And it should open our eyes to what we should consider being unacceptable.

Some of the unethical medical experimentation in this country hits a bit close to home.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215515274

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 10:59 AM

32. I don't have issue with what she said. It's consistent enough to upset people all around, though

I suppose some could argue it's not the right time or not the best wording, but it could also be argued that it's the perfect time and wording. Reasonable can disagree on that. Still, she is the one in position and the one who had to make the decision whether to speak out now, to wait, or to not speak at all. I give a certain level of respect to people who have to make those decisions.

As for her message itself. I think it's a good message because it's not the typical black and white "my side good. your side bad" messaging we often see. This acknowledgement that there is blame to go all around is a good place to start. I haven't checked the responses to her tweet yet, but I'm going to guess in addition to those who are upset with her mentioning US and Israel, there are people upset that she mentioned Hamas. I bet there are even some people who take issue with her calling out the Taliban. She also received a lot of flak from people on the further reaches of the left when she criticized China. Whether someone agrees with her or not, I think we should applaud her for being consistent in her beliefs (at least from what I've seen) I find that to be very rare these days.

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