Israeli military launches airstrikes in Gaza in response to incendiary balloons launched from the co

[Jedi Guy]

Source: CNN

(CNN) The Israeli military struck targets in Gaza overnight Wednesday, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said in a statement, citing incendiary balloons launched from Gaza earlier in the day. According to reports in Israeli media, incendiary balloons launched from Gaza sparked multiple fires in southern Israel.

Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/15/middleeast/israel-airstrikes-gaza-june-15-intl/index.html

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Here we go again.

[The Magistrate]

1. Let Us Be Clear About This, Sir

The balloon launching was a deliberate provocation.

Hamas wants the people of Gaza bombed, they want dead kids and grand funeral processions.

Perhaps Israel would do better to ignore the provocation, but there should be no mistake who started this round, and why they did it.

[Jedi Guy]

2. Yep, I'd say that's accurate.

The Israelis have never been great at turning the other cheek, though, and it's hard to blame them in this instance. If they just let it slide without some kind of response, Hamas will just continue ratcheting up the provocation. It's a hell of a mess, that's for sure.

[mpcamb]

25. Is this just one last blast from Bibi? Whose gov't is it right now?

[ForgoTheConsequence]

4. Even your outdated schtick can't cover the stench of this bullshit.

Try as you may to defend apartheid and racism.

[The Magistrate]

5. Thank You For The Ubexpected Laugh, Sir

Doubtless the only useful contribution you will make to discussion of the topic.

[The Magistrate]

10. As Predicted, Sir

Nothing of substance to say on the matter.

At the moment, the sole point of interest you present is my curiosity over which hyperbolic sloganeering line you may attempt should you continue this exchange.

I ask only that you not bore me. I am putting off a couple of chores, and if you do not play up, I shall have little grounds for continued delay.

[Jedi Guy]

6. So the incendiary balloons were accidentally released by Hamas, is that it? An oopsie?

Or wait, I bet those dastardly Israelis staged the whole thing! Yeah, that's the ticket! It's a false flag operation. The Israelis were sitting around and someone perked up and said, "Hey now, it's been a while since we bombed Gaza for absolutely no reason, we'd better get on that."

You're getting quite a workout toting all that water for Hamas, at least.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

9. I'm not sure starting a fire is worth killing children.

If it is then Israel has been setting olive groves on fire for years. Of course, the double standard for white European Israelis exists.

[Jedi Guy]

11. Whomp whomp.

"WAFA, the official Palestinian News Agency also reported the airstrikes in Khan Younis and said "material" damage occurred. The news agency also reported on another site south of Gaza City being targeted and said there were no casualties from both incidents."

[Jay25]

14. That it does. And no, "starting a fire is not worth killing children".

[oldsoftie]

22. Israelis come from all over & are not all white.

But you can espouse your racist anti Semitic tropes in a free country

[oldsoftie]

21. No, what he's done is state the FACTS.

You just dont like them. If hamas had not set fire to Israel, no one would have been bombed. Simple.

[questionseverything]

3. I would be curious about exactly where the fires started

Hamas throws a rock or lets a balloon loose and Israel bombs the Palestinians relentlessly for god knows how long , while the Palestinians are locked behind a wall

[George II]

16. Israel bombs Hamas, who violate international law by embedding themselves in residential....

....neighborhoods. They do it for two reasons - maybe they won't get retaliated against or, most likely, they can play on the international uproar by saying "Israel is bombing civilians and killing children". The bottom line is that any civilians or children that are killed are the fault of those using them as human shields, Hamas.

[The Magistrate]

19. That Point Seems To Elude Many, Sir

The force which takes up fighting positions which cannot be engaged without risk of harm to non-combatants commits a serious war crime. There is no test of proportionality to it, no balancing of the military utility of doing so against the degree of risk to non-combatants.

There is such a test of proportionality for the force engaging people who are committing this crime. The harm to non-combatants that can be expected must be weighed against the direct military value to be gained by engaging and neutralizing that position.

[McKim]

30. This is frequently the excuse!

This is frequently the excuse for bombing in the world's largest outdoor prison. But it is getting old. So they were just asking for it? Every time anyone at DU defends the viewpoints of Palestinians there is a lot of push back. Many democrats are taking a new look at Israel and questioning things. This is healthy debate.

[sarisataka]

32. For healthy debate-

Is there any Hamas launched attack on civilians that would justify an Israeli counterstrike?

[jcmaine72]

8. Makes perfect, proportional sense

Bombing civilians with high-tech strike fighters in response to what probably amounts to little more than a few parade floats carrying lit newspapers sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

Besides, it's Israel, our great pals. The blank check would be in the mail regardless, even if they emptied their nuclear arsenal into Gaza for someone blowing cigarette smoke over the border.

[The Magistrate]

13. Still, Sir, It's A Stupid Thing To Do

It gains no military advantage, it does not do any great material harm. The sole point of the action is to provoke a response which may gain some political advantage globally, and perhaps make it more difficult for the Arab Knesset members who are essential to the coalition against Netanyahu to remain in it. I do not think this is worth getting a lot of people killed over, the leadership of Hamas seems to think it is. It might well be better strategy for an Israeli government to ignore such a provocation, but really is not a viable course for a democraticly elected government.

[oldsoftie]

23. So the Israelis should send their OWN balloons......

How stupid.

[jcmaine72]

34. No.

They should keep using the $300 million dollar per unit, high-tech F-15s & F-16s we sent them. Our taxpayers deserve the maximum bang for our war crimes buck, and Israel never disappoints.

[George II]

28. Hamas should stop violating international law and stop committing war crimes by hiding out in....

...residential neighborhoods among civilians, including children, and then launching attacks of any kind on Israel.

A few weeks ago it was thousands of rockets. Now they're being coy by launching incendiary balloons into residential areas of Israel.

I suspect they're doing so to see if the balloons get through Iron Dome, which it appears they are. How long before they start arming those balloons with bombs?

Once again, as was the case several weeks ago, Hamas instigates violence and when Israel retaliates by going after Hamas, THEY are condemned because they're killing civilians and children. If Hamas wasn't hiding in their homes and neighborhoods, no civilians and children would be harmed.

This is ALL on Hamas, no one else.

[jcmaine72]

33. Stop violating international law?

You mean, like Israel's illegal occupation and settlement of the West Bank?

When will Israel finally adhere to international law? Oh wait, I forgot....they're above the law. They're Israel!

As I wrote above, it doesn't matter what Israel does. Our government will support and slobber over them with billions of $$$ in unconditional financial & military support, no matter what they do or how they do it.

[Beastly Boy]

41. Whataboutism at its worst.

If the US illegally detains children at its southern border, does Canada get a right to launch incendiary balloons into the US and expect no consequences?

[jcmaine72]

45. Vacuous deflection at its worst

A crime is a crime is a crime is a crime. None of it excuses the countless atrocities that Israel has committed against the Palestinian people. None of it excuses or will erase what Israel has done in the West Bank in particular.

[Beastly Boy]

46. Just apply the same standards to your post, and you will discover the definition of whataboutism.

It will also help if you looked up deflection. Turning your argument against you ain't it.

[jcmaine72]

47. You being supercilious and dismissive doesn't invalidate the truth.

Too bad, eh?

"We must have the same level of accountability and justice for all victims of crimes against humanity,"

Someone very smart recently said that, and I agree.

[Beastly Boy]

48. My being superlicious and dismissive appears to do just fine in invalidating whataboutism.

I see no recognition of accountability and justice applied to Hamas in your post, even though the thread relates to a recent crime against humanity initiated by Hamas.

I understand your desire to address the general topic of crimes against humanity, and you are welcome to do it. Just start a new thread. And make it more inclusive that Israel's crimes against humanity.

Come to think of it, posting about Israel's crimes against humanity is just as valid, but it's a piss poor reason to do so as an excuse for Hamas' crimes against humanity. So once again, you are welcome to start your own thread in a proper forum.

[I of the Eye]

12. Meet the New Boss

Same as the Old Boss - The Who

[OneCrazyDiamond]

26. +1

[George II]

15. I'm guessing that their thousands of rockets of weeks ago were stopped by Iron Dome, so now...

....they think these incendiary balloons will thwart Iron Dome, and it looks like they have. I wouldn't be surprised if they're trying to figure a way to put bombs in those balloons since they seem to be getting through.

Once again, Hamas starts it and Israel reacts. And no doubt the Hamas cowards are still embedded in residential neighborhoods so when Israel retaliates for being attacks, unfortunately civilians and children will be killed and injured. Surely Hamas will play that up big time and many will fall for it.

Overall Israel is not a choirboy in some of these incidents, but they do have a right to defend themselves when attacked.

[The Magistrate]

18. It Does Get A Bit Strained, Though, Sir

At some point, capability has to be assessed, along with intent, and it is true that militarily, Hamas can do no harm to Israel that would not disappear as a rounding error in the yearly toll of traffic accidents, however much Hamas may clamor for Israel's destruction.

Some years ago, a boy of about nine made some effort to rob me. He told me to give him my money, with a bit of a snarl to it, and when greeted with incredulity repeated the demand louder, with various threats and off-the-shelf slurs thrown in. The eyes were dead flat, he did do his part to animate the old saw that there are no dangerous weapons, only dangerous men. However, at the time I did ferocious distance runs and weight work, and it would have been nonesense for me to act as if I faced a material menace.

[ripcord]

17. Hamas really needs to stop doing stupid shit

It is clear they are trying to drum up world outrage by seeing how many Palestinians they can get killed.

[DavidDvorkin]

20. They feel they gain from it

Palestinian support for Hamas has increased, and a majority of Palestinians think Hamas won the recent battle.

World opinion turns increasingly against Israel every time this happens. It's absurd, but there it is. We certainly see that on DU.

[oldsoftie]

24. Last time, M.E. opinon was actually muted.

As more and more Arab nations have entered into peace agreements with Israel, they've tired of the constant "victim industry" of the palestinians. Many of these countries stayed silent during the 2 week battle.
The world is moving past them. Except for those who will always hate the Jews for whatever reason

[OneCrazyDiamond]

27. Is there evidence it was Hamas?

Like from an independent observer.

[Beastly Boy]

42. The balloons came from Gaza into Israel and used tactics and materials attributable to Hamas.

Hamas claimed responsibility for past similar attacks.

Must have been Antifa.

[OneCrazyDiamond]

43. Cool, it likely is, but is there evidence?

[Beastly Boy]

44. What I posted qualifies as circumstantial evidence.

If you are looking for direct evidence, stay tuned. Hamas is likely to post a video of the attack eventually, as they did in the past:

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2020/08/28/hamas-proxy-incendiary-balloons-at-israel/

[OneCrazyDiamond]

49. Yeah that is what I am asking. The videos or something.

It is safe to assume Hamas, but this conflict has many fans on both sides. Stability in the ME is not always the goal.

[twodogsbarking]

29. Send them billions so they can

buy more weapons from the U S of A. Keep the economy growing.

[McKim]

31. Tired of Paying for this!

As a taxpayer who sees growing tent cities in her town, I am tired of paying for this!

[jcmaine72]

35. Me too.

I'm also tired of people calling themselves progressives, who are so quick to point out the sins of other nations, giving Israel an unconditional pass for EVERYTHING that they've done and continue to do. There is NOTHING progressive about what Israel has done to the Palestinian people, or their illegal colonization of the West Bank.

We paid for it all, and will, sadly, continue to do so.

[oldsoftie]

36. Palestinains have had their chances.

And passed. Could've had their own state in '47. Refused. Pres Clinton had a good deal for them. Passed. Obama; same. Even most of the Arab world has grown tired of the same old story. Thats why so many have now signed peace deals with israel. Many didnt even criticize them during the 2 week battle last month.
As long as they continue to align themselves with those who will only settle for the total removal of Israel, they'll continue to be on the losing side.

[Darwins_Retriever]

37. The west bank

Was not Palestinian territory when Israel occupied it. It was the territory of Jordan who, along with Syria and Egypt, attacked Israel. You may know a bit about this war in '67. If these countries had not attacked Israel, West Bank would still be Jordan's not Palestinian. Actually Palestinians living in the West Bank at that time were not considered to be Jordanian citizens. The same goes for the Gaza Strip. Gaza was Egyptian, not Palestinian. Even after the peace treaty between Israel and Egypt, Egypt didn't want Gaza because there were Palestinians there.

[The Magistrate]

38. It Is True, Sir

That the area in question has been occupied by one country or another since the armistice of '49. By the terms of the U.N. partition in '48, the area, and a good deal more, was indeed to comprise a state of Palestine.

What makes Israeli actions during its occupation dodgy at best is that an occupying power is not supposed to settle its own citizens on territory it occupies. I have seen people make arguments of military necessity for the settlements, and make arguments which present them as a matter of moral or religious right, but I have never seen any convincing argument made that they are lawful.

[McKim]

39. A Poll at Filesforprogress.org Shows 75% of Democrats Want Sanctions on Israel

A poll at filesforprogress.org shows that 75% of democrats would support sanctions on Israel. This is a matter of serious debate in our party.

[The Magistrate]

40. Without Comment On The Unseen Poll, Ma'am

This debate in our party owes a good deal to the deliberate decision by Likud leadership to hitch its wagon to the christo-fascist right in this country. Just about everyone who is not of the christo-fascist right detests it, and what is supported by a body one detests comes to be identified with it. Israel was not a partisan issue until fairly recently. There was a small element on the further left in opposition, but this had no wide footing during the Cold War, and did not much increase its influence until this century. Without considerable assistance from Sharon and Netanyahu, that increase might easily not have occurred.

[McKim]

50. Here is the Poll

Here is the poll: https://filesforprogress.org/datasets/2021/6/dfp-conditional-aid-israel-top lines.pdf

On mondoweiss.net there is an article about this and similar polls.

[The Magistrate]

51. This Might Be A Better Link, Ma'am

https://www.filesforprogress.org/memos/BDS-and-anti-boycott-laws.pdf

Took some poking about to get a direct link.

If that's the right poll, I cannot quite find the figures you cite, though.

The nearest thing I could find is in answer to whether the BDS line is a legitimate form of protest, which is not quite the same as supporting it.

"Voters say that boycotts are a legitimate protest tactic, 76 percent to 14 percent, and they support the use of boycotts, 71 percent to 19 percent. Voters oppose anti-BDS laws, 36 percent to 27 percent. A plurality of voters say BDS is legitimate (36 percent), compared to those who say it is not (31 percent). However, voters overall do oppose BDS, 35 percent to 27 percent,with the remainder of respondents (38 percent) reporting they were unsure. A majority of Democratic voters say BDS is legitimate (53 percent), and 44 percent of Democratic voters support BDS. Democratic voters oppose anti-BDS laws, 48 percent to 15 percent. In addition, of the 38 percent of voters unsure about supporting BDS, a majority are Democratic voters (53 percent)."



Thank you for putting this up. It is an interesting site, and I had not heard of it before. It has a 'drinking from a fire-hose' air about it.

I want to be clear I am not claiming any misstatement or distortion on your part. I agree with your basic view, that support for sanctions against Israel is appreciable and growing, and the polling reported here certainly supports that. So long as an Israeli government fosters the settler movement I support withholding aid.