US Catholic bishops OK steps toward possible rebuke of Biden

[mysteryowl]

Source: AP

U.S. Catholic bishops overwhelmingly approved the drafting of a "teaching document" that many of them hope will rebuke Catholic politicians, including President Joe Biden, for receiving Communion despite their support for abortion rights.

The result of the vote -- 168 in favor and 55 against -- was announced Friday near the end of a three-day meeting of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops that was held virtually.

The bishops had cast their votes privately on Thursday after nearly three hours of impassioned debate.

Supporters of the measure said a strong rebuke of Biden was needed because of his recent actions protecting and expanding abortion access, while opponents warned that such action would portray the bishops as a partisan force during a time of bitter political divisions across the country.

Read more: https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-government-and-politics-religion-ea0179cd6c8eddbf66693a7e2b28e2da

---

Maybe the bishops should focus on rebuking and imprisoning their pedophiles.

[gab13by13]

1. I guess the Catholic church

has too many members? I think it may lose a few more.

[olegramps]

76. The loss of the young people will relegate it to being a minor religion within a generation or two.

Pope John XXIII provided the church with a council mandated to make the church relavant since he realized it had a dim future since most young people regarded it as totally irrelevant to their life style. The so-called traditionalists blocked any meaningful reforms especially in regard to the church's medieval sexual mentality. As a consequence it will only become a sanctuary for a relative few within the near future. As a former Catholic, I can only welcome its demise. It can be a threat to your health and wellbeing if taken seriously.

[mahina]

78. This is an open invitation for everyone of us with any connection to reach out loud and clear

Early enough abs let them know about women’s health and what this means to us. They don’t have any idea what they’re doing to us, how they are killing some of us with this.

[Effete Snob]

2. "opponents warned that such action would portray the bishops as a partisan force"

But they are.

[no_hypocrisy]

3. Guys, give Joe a break.

He’s President of non-Catholics. He’s not a priest or Pope.

[luv2fly]

4. Bingo

Unlike the orange aHole, President Biden works to govern for ALL. Religious leaders should have no voice in that.

[mysteryowl]

5. The Catholics are strict about who can receive communion.

My brother married a Catholic woman and they had a Catholic/Lutheran wedding. ANYONE attending the wedding that was NOT Catholic would not be permitted to receive communion.

I remember feeling putout by it then and I still do. It was a rejection of the wedding participants. No "brotherly love" by the Catholic Christians, it is conditional.

[Lovie777]

9. President Biden is Catholic . . ..

and his actions far outweigh many of the Catholic Bishops. President Biden's support of the gay community in their eyes is a sin, but alas, total coverup of Priests who messed with young boys is ignored.

I remember a family member's funeral several years ago. We are Methodist, and a good friend of the family and the deceased best friend refused to go inside of the church because in his religion all other religions don't meet with their GAWD's teaching and are false.

[wryter2000]

16. It irritates the hell out of me, too

I'm Episcopalian, and everyone who wants communion gets it, no questions. (Not all of our churches are like that, sadly. We're not perfect.) If you believe in communion, how could you be cruel enough to deny anyone? And who gets to judge? The bishops aren't infallible.

That said, I went to a Catholic wedding a few years ago, and everyone took communion, even me, the Episcopalian agnostic. Maybe the priest decided not to behave himself.

[DenaliDemocrat]

67. It was not a consecrated host or he did not realize you were not Catholic

Priests cannot decide to give non Catholics communion

[chowder66]

24. My Catholic high school made me attend Mass & take communion even though they knew I wasn't baptized

or religious. Then they made a huge deal about me and my fellow non-religious students being banned from Mass the next year.
I was glad for it but extra pissed about being required to attend in the first place.
However, my Religion class teacher who was a nun was incredibly tolerant of my constant criticisms and even stood by me when the kids became uncomfortable and combative towards me.

[Rebl2]

30. I've been

to several Catholic weddings and I am fine with not taking communion from a priest. Never gave it a thought. It’s their rule and fine by me because I don’t want communion from them.

[Jedi Guy]

43. Well, that's hardly surprising.

Taking communion is a big deal in just about any Christian church. My entire family is Lutheran Church (Missouri Synod) and as far as I know, every church in the synod is closed communion. Only confirmed members are allowed to participate in the sacrament. If you're a visitor, you need to speak to the pastor beforehand and sort it out.

Why should a church let just anyone participate in one of their most important rituals? Those taking part should understand the gravity of the act and what it means, which generally comes after instruction in the church's beliefs (e.g., confirmation class for teenagers or those who joined as adults). No one has a right to receive communion from a church, and asking that only members of the faith take communion isn't a big deal.

Wanna take communion? Become a member. Simple.

[caraher]

44. I think there are several separable issues at play here

First is the practice you mention of excluding non-Catholics from communion. I totally get that this feels very unwelcoming, but it at least rests on relatively solid theological ground (to the extent that such a thing exists!). It's all about Catholic doctrine on transubstantiation. For most Christians, the bread and wine are symbolic of Christ's body and blood, whereas for Catholics they are supposed to be the actual body and blood of Christ (once the appropriate rituals have been observed). Receiving communion involves an affirmation of this belief; when the priest or extraordinary minister of the Eucharist presents the host they say, "This is the body of Christ" and the communicant is to respond to affirm their belief with an "Amen." In principle, at least; no parish would really grill a Catholic regarding whether they really believe in transubstantiation, deep down inside, before accepting communion.

So from a strict perspective of doctrine, they're essentially sparing non-Catholics from attesting to something outside their belief system. It's been a long time since I've been in a Catholic church, but my experience has been that the more humane ones find ways to include attendees of all faiths (typically by asking non-Catholics or others not interested in taking communion to take part in the procession to receive communion but to cross arms across their chest to receive a blessing in lieu of a communion host).

I'm sure even that might leave you feeling like a second-class person in their eyes. It's the best a local priest can do in keeping with the rules they're supposed to uphold.

On a different level is the political theater the bishops are engaged in. There's a definite tension within the Catholic church between those who preferred the two previous popes (particularly Benedict) to Francis. The reactionary faction is all about a "smaller, purer" church and votes like this show that they hold most of the power in the US leadership. They hate Pope Francis because he has spoken pretty directly against this movement (and this move in particular). So part of the leadership, particularly in the US, have no problem - and would even see it as a benefit - alienating huge numbers of people from the Catholic church by playing politics in this way.

It's all blatantly hypocritical. Even with respect to being "pro-life" there is no movement to deny communion to governors who sign off on executions.

[Sgent]

60. I think they are daring him

to overrule them. It will depend on the final letter, but if it leaves off things like the death penalty, climate change, etc. Francis will have to decide whether to go to war with the US church.

[caraher]

62. I agree

They want a fight, one that would happen in just about no other country.

[LenaBaby61]

50. And you wonder WHY people are leaving the Catholic Church ....

I was sexually harassed/assaulted by two priests in High School in consecutive years in the mid to late 1970's, and that's when I left the church. 'They' said that I had mental problems, or that I caused it, or that I was promiscuous and at fault. I guess decline doesn't have much to do with the sexual molestation that is allegedly STILL going on, or with the mystery around the Vatican or with their "no tax" status.

Nooooooooo. Nothing negative about any of those things 🙄


U.S. Church Membership Falls. MARCH 29, 2021

https://news.gallup.com/poll/341963/church-membership-falls-below-majority-first-time.aspx

[AngryOldDem]

53. It's like being an arbiter of God's grace.

If that ain’t hubris, I’d like to know what is.

I think both God and Christ can do without a judgmental gatekeeper.

The Church can’t wrap its head around the fact that very few things in this existence are black or white. The shades of gray are many. That’s why this is best left between the individual and his spiritual advisor, instead of a scorched earth approach like what these bishops want.

Many things turned me away from Catholicism, but its proprietary attitude toward Christ was right up there on my list.

[no_hypocrisy]

6. If Joe could take communion with, say, a French priest,

how can this vote be valid?

[msongs]

7. where was the pope during the holocaust. did he deny communcion to nazis? nt

[atreides1]

40. Nope

The church as an organization did little for the victims of the Holocaust...though it did help!

[RKP5637]

8. So F'en tired of this kind of religious shit! n/t

[CentralMass]

11. They don't seem to have the same issue with politicians who support the death penalty.

[Sane1]

12. So Trump was Anointed by God

Anointed by God yet he cheated on all his wives, banged a pornstar (while married), banged a Playboy model (while married), got caught scamming students at Trump University, stiffed alot of contractors working on his golf courses, the list goes on and on.
But hey who are we to judge, our priests have raped and abused little children for years and we can overlook it while hiding the pedophiles away so why not give Trump a break too, and he says he's anti-abortion when convenient (if it buys him votes).
It's time to take the tax exempt status away from churches when they get behind perverts and liars like Trump! If there is a God he/she certainly wouldn't anoint an evil maniac like Trump.

[Hekate]

13. I am so done with them. Did they ever rebuke Trump or any other non-Catholic? Not that I've seen

They just seem to show up to kick Democrats in the teeth if they happen to be Catholic.

[PSPS]

14. They'd do it quicker but they're busy in the sacristy with altar boys.

[Jakes Progress]

15. And the CC works toward becoming more and more irrelevant.

Notice they didn't condemn and catholic elected official for supporting the death penalty.

[Baitball Blogger]

17. It's been centuries since someone decided to break with the Catholic church and start

a new religion. But, hey, this is as good a reason as any other.

[orangecrush]

18. Started with John Paul 2

And Reagan.

These assholes don't represent the teaching of Christ in any way shape or form.

Be nice if there were some way to get them out.

They have turned the U.S. Catholic church into a right wing political action group.

As such their non profit status should be challenged.

Watch how fast this shit would stop.

[poli-junkie]

20. Buncha Opus Dei freaks! Eff-'em!

[SharonAnn]

77. Exactly! Like some members of our Supreme Court.

[Midnight Writer]

21. If they are going to pick and choose specific politicians, they should not be tax exempt.

[ace3csusm]

25. I fully agree any church that throws their weight in should be removed from

the tax break...its time

[Lulu KC]

22. I'm sure the Episcopal church will welcome the Bidens with open arms

Our pews are full of ex-Catholics who have had to flee for one reason or another. (Not that I attend very much, but was raised in it and now my self-identified atheistic husband attends!)

[pacheen]

79. Catholic lite

That’s what I hear they call the Episcopal Church.

Sounds good to me! Maybe I’ll check it out sometime. Starting to be done with Catholicism.

[Lulu KC]

80. The liturgy is familiar--

but it seems to me that the theology emphasizes the gospel's message of love, rather than original sin. I saw a meme recently that said, "The Episcopal Church--worship like a Catholic, think like a hippie." Priests are allowed to marry (including same-sex marriages) and women are ordained. There has been some splintering off over the years because of decisions like that, but they've held strong. Bishop Curry is great.

I hope you enjoy if you try it!

[Jedi Guy]

81. Have you ever seen the movie "Dogma"?

If not, I highly recommend it. One of the characters in the film says of Catholics, "You don't celebrate your faith, you mourn it." I only ever attended Mass a few times with Catholic friends, but that quote struck me as accurate.

[Lulu KC]

82. I'll check it out

[rurallib]

23. Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's; Render unto God that which is God's

and keep your religious bullshit out of secular matters.
(edit: aimed at the RCC not mysteryowl)

[icymist]

26. If this doesn't scream 'Tax the Church' for participating in politics

then what does?

[Midnight Writer]

32. If their tax status was threatened, I bet they would rethink their "principles" fast.

This is not a religious stance, but a political move directed against a specific politician.

A politician who, by the way, actually lives his life according to the tenets of this very Church.

They should be ashamed of this vote.

They should be holding Biden up as an exemplar of their faith, not as a heretic unfit for participation.

[icymist]

57. It's not that simple as that specific politician happens to be POTUS.

The church here is trying to force a change of position of the Excitative Branch of government of the United States by threatening a rebuke. This should forfeit their non tax status.

[AngryOldDem]

51. They're good at coming right up to -- but not crossing -- that line.

Because they’ve been allowed to do so.

All the more reason to strip them of that exemption.

Pay to play, baby.

[Joinfortmill]

27. Guess they haven't lost enough people.

[Rebl2]

28. I thought the

Vatican warned against doing this just recently.

[maxsolomon]

31. that's what I was coming here to say.

US RCC Bishops are defying Rome.

The US RCC is focused on Abortion to the exclusion of nearly everything else.

[chowder66]

29. Are they going to refuse all of their parishioners that don't buy into every single doctrine too?

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

33. Catholic Democrats in the House warn bishops against the 'weaponization' of communion

A group of 60 Catholic House Democrats sent a “statement of principles” to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops as the bishops advanced an effort to deny Communion to politicians who support abortion rights, warning them against the “weaponization of the Eucharist.”

The Democrats said they are guided by Catholic teachings like “helping the poor, disadvantaged, and the oppressed, protecting the least among us and ensuring that all Americans of every faith are given meaningful opportunities to share in the blessings of this great country.”

The Democrats wrote that while they support policies that encourage alternatives to abortion — such as adoption — and make it easier on women to raise children, such as health care and child-care services, they also represent a secular democracy and religious freedom for all Americans.

The statement of principles came after the bishops voted to draft a statement on the sacrament of the Eucharist, with further action expected in November.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/06/18/joe-biden-live-updates/#link-WSICYNCXDJFABOWGIX5ZECYQOY

[tonekat]

34. The country could use the tax money

I see no reason to keep up the charade that the Catholic Church is impartial and so gets a big fat tax exemption! It's a political organization!

[Rebl2]

41. Yep!

[jalan48]

35. Hasn't this outfit caused enough trouble over the centuries with their half baked mumbo jumbo

to still be taken seriously in the 21st Century?

[Karma13612]

37. Exactly! Nt

[Karma13612]

36. Clean up your pedophilia, bishops. And remember that

There is supposed to be a separation of church and state in this country.

Just shaking my head.

I’m Episcopalian but am not religious in the least. It’s all just nonsense. How can you judge others, determine whether they are going to heaven or hell, etc and then turn around and abuse children and tell women to behave and abide their husbands (who in some cases are complete a-holes who cheat and abuse).

It’s all a Disgusting construct that has captured, controlled and tormented societies for far too long.

[twodogsbarking]

39. That was great.

Feel free to let it rip any time.

[twodogsbarking]

38. W.C. Fields said it best.

Go away, you bother me.

[ladym55]

42. Way to go, bishops!

You were all cool with the non-stop pathological liar, multiple-married, adulterous jerk because he supported the only two things that apparently matter to Catholic bishops--opposition to abortion and the LGBTQ community. Why would you have ANY interest in the social justice issues that informed the Jesus you claim to be the center of your "faith"?

With your incredibly sordid history of pedophilia, it may be a really good time for you all to STFU.

Taxing you also sounds like a plan as you appear to be a political PAC, not a faith organization.

[AngryOldDem]

49. Funny you should mention Trump

My former parish, which has taken a HARD turn to the right over the past few years with a new trad priest, has Mass intentions for this asshole.

So the Church can just take its sanctimony and shove it.

[left-of-center2012]

45. Well ...

[StarlightGold]

46. The big majority

of noted physicians in the Catholic Church, sorry, I meant bishops, are trying to intimidate politicians who serve EVERYONE, not just Catholics. Whatever. Their concern is duly noted. They act as if being Catholic is the best game in town. People can always choose another religion. Not a big deal.

[AngryOldDem]

47. This is a matter solely between the person and his or her priest/confessor.

Biden had it exactly right. It’s nobody else’s damn business.

And as I’ve said ad nauseam, the Church needs to muck out its own stables first before it dares to pass judgment on anybody else.

This institution just insists on committing slow suicide.

[OilemFirchen]

52. Indeed.

I don't give one flying fuck how the Catholic Church, or any other religion, chooses to deal with their parishioners, nor should anyone else. The audacity of this institution to publicly broadcast this private matter suggests that they believe they wield some authority over the general populace.

If I this Jew believed in hell, I'd suggest that they all be literally fucked to there.

[marmar]

48. I'll take "Irrelevant Antediluvian Institutions" for $1,000 Alex.....

[BigmanPigman]

54. I've got a container of Communion Wafers on the top of my fridge.

They are the real McCoy. I'll gladly give them to Joe. I use them as "chips" used for dipping when I am put in charge of appetizers at family dinners, we are all atheists now. We (my mom and sister) used to be Catholics, until I was 9 and was given a choice. I chose "NO WAY". I knew at that time that they were all about money, shaming those publicly who did not give them "enough" in the collection basket, and printing out how much everyone gave each month. Fuck that shit! As a 9 year old it was obvious that religion is a scam and the Catholic Church is top of the list when it comes to promoting hate, misogyny, displaying greed and hypocrisy.

I think I'll go and have some of those wafers now that I am thinking about them. They are better than chips, actually. Yum, I just made some guacamole too.

[Skittles]

55. assholes

fucking assholes

[ancianita]

56. Rebuke? Laughable. The mote in bishops' own eye is plain for the world to see.

Killing innocence takes many forms, and for those born, pedophilia is an intentionally systematic, collective Mortal Sin that these bishops and their guilty priests must publicly confess, atone or go to hell for.

Rebuke of Biden in any "teaching documents" will mark the end of the faithful following Mortal Sinners. Pedophilic coverup is no less a sin than Biden's pro-choice stance (honoring women's God-given free will) when these bishops are silent, therefore complicit, about secret mass graves of children in Ireland.

[onetexan]

75. Wonder how many of those bishops are molesters themselves

[keithbvadu2]

58. It is a political issue. If it was an issue of faith, the Pope would make a decision.

It is a political issue.

If it was an issue of faith, the Pope would make a decision.

[keithbvadu2]

59. Donald J. Trump; the republicans' Messiah who ridicules Holy Communion.

Donald J. Trump; the republicans' Messiah who ridicules Holy Communion.

Trump: Drink my little wine, have my little cracker

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2015/08/13/donald-trump-religion-serfaty-dnt-erin.cnn

[Brainfodder]

61. Do they have standing?

[mahina]

63. As a person who was raised Catholic and is a fan of this Pope,

Though I quit the church in 1972 I’d like to offer up a hearty go fuck yourselves to these jackasses.

The church is diminished by this and it’s a shame because they actually feed, house and clothe a good number of people who need it.

And they must be held to account for the horrendous harm they have caused, of course.

This is going to piss off enough Democratic Catholics that I think it will make a sizable dent in the churchgoing population.

Tax the churches.

[Sherman A1]

64. And the horse they rode in on.......

F ‘em all.

[BlueWavePsych]

65. Pompous assh0les

[tetedur]

66. Why politicize the sacrament of the Eucharist?

Why single out President Biden? If they decreed anyone who is pro-choice cannot receive Communion, then so be it. Change the law for everyone even if those persons have never had an abortion or participated in one. Or if those persons had abortions, confessed their sins and are otherwise "in a state of grace" they still cannot receive Communion because they are pro-choice.

Meanwhile, "the Church" in my neck of the woods is still covering up mortal sins of priests who are sexually abusing children while standing in the person of Christ and performing the sacrament of the Eucharist. Apparently, that's okay. Below is one example. This priest was removed three years after allegations and a suit was brought. The Diocese settled and apologized.

https://www.katc.com/news/lafayette-parish/lafayette-diocese-allegations-against-former-priest-michael-guidry-credible-formally-apologizes-to-victim-and-family

"After careful examination, the Diocese of Lafayette has determined that the allegations made by Oliver Peyton against Michael Guidry, who formerly served as a priest of the Diocese of Lafayette, are credible. The Diocese further denounces the actions of Michael Guidry towards Oliver Peyton and hereby formally and publicly apologizes to Oliver Peyton and to his family. Michael Guidry has been permanently removed from ministry."

KATC reached out to Peyton's family for comment on this update. They responded with the following statement:

"These past three years have been an incredibly difficult time for our son and our entire family. The fact that Father Guidry has not been laicized and remains an ordained member of the clergy is disturbing. Our prayers go out to the countless victims who have not been acknowledged nor received an apology."

[TNNurse]

68. If I were Catholic, I would be organizing a huge walkout

and public demonstration about this.

They are playing God.

[Mysterian]

69. Assholes would back a fascist dictatorship if it would put

women back in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant.

[hadEnuf]

70. Where was the rebuke of Trump for his lifestyle, his criminality, and the hate he spread?

Not to mention his total disregard of most of the Commandments.

They go after the decent man instead?????

[jvill]

71. Catholic church should prob stick to protecting Nazis and pedophiles...

As Jesus once said: Stick to what you're good at.

[Jilly_in_VA]

72. Papa Francisco TOLD them

not to politicize the Eucharist. It would be really fitting if he would punish the loudest ones...by removing them from their jobs, for instance...but he's too nice. However, the Bishop of DC, Wilton Gregory, says his priests will NOT refuse the President communion, so there. A lot of the American bishops are downright fascist, somewhere to the right of the late Fr. Coughlin (look him up if you don't know who he was) including the bishop of my former home town in Wisconsin. The current bishop of Knoxville is also an a-hole, although the one who was there when my daughter was in high school was not...but he's a whole other story. I don't even know who the bishop is here because I don't pay any attention. He doesn't seem to open his yap much.

[Jim_S]

73. Are you F'n kidding me?!

This BS from the same group of leaders that 'hid' child molesters? WTF? They should shove that document up their 'you know what' with a rusty brush. And then WE should remove their tax-exempt status.

[Skittles]

74. is Communion OK for those who are pro-death penalty?

this is just more church / conservative hypocrisy