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Thu Jul 22, 2021, 11:15 AM

Study: Pfizer vaccine 88 percent effective against delta variant

Source: The Hill

Two doses of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine are 88 percent effective against the delta variant, according to a new study.

The study, published in the New England Journal of Medicine on Wednesday from researchers at Public Health England, offers reassurance about the effectiveness of the vaccines against the delta variant.

The 88 percent effectiveness against the delta variant was only modestly lower than the 93.7 percent effectiveness against the alpha variant, which was first identified in the United Kingdom.

The findings reinforce earlier data from Public Health England in May finding 88 percent effectiveness against delta.

Read more: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/study-pfizer-vaccine-88-percent-effective-against-delta-variant/ar-AAMro79?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531



Well, I doubt that this news will keep Republicans and right wing media from continuing to push the talking point that it is somehow a person's patriotic, racist duty to go unvaccinated and perhaps spread the disease and die so that Republicans have a better chance to win in 2022. I can see it now. Kevin McCarthy: "Biden has failed to do a better job of fighting the lies that we try to spread!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?vpvWGQk-aV-8

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Reply Study: Pfizer vaccine 88 percent effective against delta variant (Original post)
TomCADem Jul 22 OP
LonePirate Jul 22 #1
rkleinberger Jul 22 #31
Hugin Jul 22 #2
lagomorph777 Jul 22 #3
Hugin Jul 22 #4
lagomorph777 Jul 22 #5
Hugin Jul 22 #7
lagomorph777 Jul 22 #8
wnylib Jul 22 #17
Hugin Jul 22 #18
TomCADem Jul 22 #13
Hugin Jul 22 #15
IronLionZion Jul 22 #21
Hugin Jul 22 #23
IronLionZion Jul 22 #25
NH Ethylene Jul 22 #28
Dopers_Greed Jul 22 #24
peppertree Jul 22 #6
lagomorph777 Jul 22 #9
LymphocyteLover Jul 22 #11
lagomorph777 Jul 22 #16
peppertree Jul 22 #19
lagomorph777 Jul 22 #20
peppertree Jul 22 #22
Treefrog Jul 22 #32
lagomorph777 Jul 22 #33
Treefrog Jul 22 #35
LymphocyteLover Jul 23 #36
TomCADem Jul 22 #14
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jul 22 #10
LisaL Jul 22 #12
NH Ethylene Jul 22 #29
wnylib Jul 22 #30
Dopers_Greed Jul 22 #26
C Moon Jul 22 #27
JohnSJ Jul 22 #34

Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 11:24 AM

1. The Moderna vaccine is very likely in the same ballpark, give or take a point or two.

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 04:50 PM

31. It is time for a 3rd booster within 6 to 12 months

A booster will most likely necessary as the variants slowly chop at the effectiveness of the vaccines (aka, like a force shield loosing effectiveness after continued attack by a Klingon cruiser). Pfizer data is very promising for a third booster and enhances the the vaccine's effectiveness by 5 to 10 times after the two primary doses.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 11:36 AM

2. I've been approaching the rash of 'breakthrough' articles with caution.

After opening a few and finding little in the way of facts or metrics.

I'm of the opinion that hospitalizations among vaccinated persons are so statistically rare that the legitimate data accumulators and analysts are having a difficult time categorizing the cases in a meaningful way.

Yes. I intend to continue my careful following of the established guidelines for the sake of the vulnerable. I will also be wary of the idiots fooling around and mutating a truly vaccine resistant nasty, but, I'm breathing easier.

If you haven't yet been vaccinated, please do.

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Response to Hugin (Reply #2)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 11:43 AM

3. There is so much gray area. What exactly constitutes a "breakthrough" infection?

Positive PCR? How many asymptomatic people get tested? Very few, I would assume.
Mild symptoms? Again, how many people get tested?
Hospitalization?

And what exactly does 88% effective even mean? If you are exposed all day every day, over the course of your life you'll have a 12% chance of a positive PCR? Obviously a ridiculous example, but can anybody provide the exact real definition?

We have to be careful not to think of vaccines in black and white (i.e. Republican-like) terms. Vaccines are a great part of our arsenal to defend against COVID and its variants. They are neither perfect nor useless. When combined with masking, we can be very safe. Skip the vaccine or skip the mask, and we are in much greater danger.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #3)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 12:01 PM

4. Exactly.

All along COVID-19 has been a cloud of WTF.

I understand the confusion. I'm confused, too.

I have formed a few assertions over the last couple of weeks, which, I'd like to see if you agree:

The first is Delta does readily cause infections in vaccinated individuals in the absence of other precautions. Those infections are contagious. As I said above, these infections rarely (in the order of 0.03%) result in hospitalizations. (the only real reliable metric available for vaccinated people contracting the virus)

I suspect these infections are caused by a very large inoculating dose. The severity of 'rona infection has been directly related to amount of exposure all through this thing.

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Response to Hugin (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 12:07 PM

5. I agree in general terms.

The number I've heard (again, this is all pretty squishy) is that 99.5% of Delta deaths are unvaccinated people. I think that indicates a slightly lower efficacy than would be indicated by 0.03% of infections in vaccinated folks, resulting in hospitalization.

But of course, those two numbers are very different kinds of measurements, and I don't think even a statistician could really correlate them in any way, given the number of external factors.

You are surely correct that heavy exposures correlate with more cases / more severe cases. Vaccinated but unmasked people will surely be more likely to get infected/sick/severely sick. People on the wide array of immunosuppressant drugs that are so heavily marketed today, will surely be in greater danger, even if vaccinated. And so on...

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #5)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 12:28 PM

7. Generalities seem to be all we have currently.

Yeah, .5 or .03... Let's say it's very small.

But, I think we can say with confidence that if you are vaccinated and take no other precautions, you will contract the COVID-19 virus eventually with a significantly reduced chance of a severe illness. Some people are okay with that. (I'm not.) Also, this infection will be contagious to others. Primarily, the unvaccinated willing or otherwise. Which at best would be around 15% of the population.

I personally wouldn't want that weighing on my already over burdened conscience.

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Response to Hugin (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 12:30 PM

8. 100% in agreement. You stated it perfectly.

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Response to Hugin (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 01:42 PM

17. That's what makes delta so highly

infectious. It replicates faster than other variants in infected people. So when you come in contact with an infected person, you get a high viral load without having to have long term contact with one person or exposure to several infected people.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #17)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 01:49 PM

18. It sure seems to be the case with Delta.

It is a replicator.

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Response to Hugin (Reply #2)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 01:22 PM

13. WebMD - How Effective is the Flu Vaccine? - Some Context

Due to all the misinformation that is being pushed, I think a lot of people have unreasonable expectations with respect to vaccines.

First, vaccines are not a forcefield. Even a pretty established vaccine program such as the flu vaccine is only about 40 percent effective in preventing disease, which helps explains why experts said that they would have been satisfied with a COVID vaccine that was 50 percent effective.

Second, even if a vaccine does not prevent illness, it still can mitigate the seriousness of the disease.

So, I agree that the focus on "breakthrough" cases is misleading. Indeed, the rarity of such breakthrough cases actually underscores the effectiveness of the COVID vaccines.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200902/how-effective-is-the-flu-vaccine

Sept. 2, 2020 -- Every year since 2010, the CDC has urged almost all Americans over 6 months old to get a flu shot. And every year we fall far short -- just half of us got vaccinated during the 2018-19 season. One reason: Some people believe the shot just doesnít work.

Because flu viruses mutate constantly and the vaccine wears off over time, you canít get vaccinated once and expect to be covered for years, as you can with other diseases. The vaccine must be changed each year, in hopes of matching the ever-mutating viruses. And thatís been a challenge. On average, itís been 40% effective, meaning itís prevented illness 40% of the time. Since health officials started tracking it in 2003, effectiveness has varied from year to year, ranging from a low of 10% in 2004-05 to a high of 60% in 2010-11.

* * *

If the Vaccine Isnít Always Effective, Why Get One?
The flu is a serious illness. When the viruses in the vaccine are a good match with whatís circulating, the vaccine can reduce your risk of having the flu by 40%-60%. And even when the match isnít great, being vaccinated before you get the flu can help you avoid having a severe case. Numerous studies have shown that the vaccine cuts your risk of having to go to the hospital -- and if you are hospitalized, youíre much less likely to be admitted to the intensive care unit.

According to the CDCís estimates for the 2018-19 season, vaccinating only half of all Americans prevented 4.4 million cases of the flu, 58,000 hospitalizations, and 3,500 deaths. That was in a year that the vaccine was only 29% effective. ďEven with a less-than-perfect vaccine, there can still be big results in terms of prevented illnesses and severe outcomes,Ē says Petrie.


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Response to TomCADem (Reply #13)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 01:26 PM

15. Good background in that article.

I agree that a lack of general understanding of vaccines is a big part of the problem.

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #21)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 02:24 PM

23. Really, the only data worth looking through.

5,492 'breakthrough' cases recorded by the CDC as of July 12, 2021. (Defined as: Patients with a COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough infection who were hospitalized or died.)

So, out of over 159 million people vaccinated there have been 5,492 'serious' cases. It's no wonder the legitimate data accumulators and analysts have nothing to say about it.

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Response to Hugin (Reply #23)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 02:46 PM

25. Because the vaccines are extremely good

at keeping us alive and out of the hospital. Testing positive for COVID isn't too bad if vaccinated.

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Response to Hugin (Reply #23)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 04:33 PM

28. We don't know how many of the 159 million have been exposed to Delta Covid.

But if only 1% have been exposed, resulting in 5,492 serious or deadly cases, then the chances of the fully vaccinated getting it upon exposure are 1 in nearly 3,500, or less than 0.0003%.

Those are great odds!

Now, if I could just calculate the odds of a vaccinated 66-year-old with several comorbidities . . .

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Response to Hugin (Reply #2)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 02:44 PM

24. I'm still being careful too

But the M$M is totally fear-mongering about "breakthrough" cases.

The vaccine are extremely safe and effective. Anyone opting out should be prepared to evaluation their life choices while on a ventilator.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 12:28 PM

6. You said it: '...spread the disease so that Republicans have a better chance to win in 2022'

As awful as that is, we need to start looking at these seemingly irrational behaviors of theirs in those terms: as brazen bad faith.

And the deaths?

The way they see it: you make an omelet, you break a few eggs.

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Response to peppertree (Reply #6)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 12:32 PM

9. Spread the disease among their own voters, and give themselves a better chance?

That's just completely irrational. Like COVID has already damaged their brains. It makes no sense whatsoever. How would killing their own voters help their electoral chances?

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #9)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 01:17 PM

11. killing their voters won't-- the only thing I can figure is they think they have to keep the

religious nuts and conspiracy anti-vaxxer freaks motivated by anti-vaccine talking points to turn out for them to win in 2022. But it's a trade-off between getting those guys out to vote and how many will die from the virus first.

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Reply #11)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 01:35 PM

16. Most dead voters won't vote in 2022.

But if any do, you can guess which way they'll vote!

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #16)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 02:01 PM

19. They figure that for every death, they can turn 5 or 10 voters against Biden

And they have the propaganda machinery to install that narrative on the ready, as you know.

RW oppositions in other countries have already pivoted to that talking point - while (of course) making sure that as many people as possible reject the vaccine.

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Response to peppertree (Reply #19)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 02:04 PM

20. Probably something like that. But that's a foolish proposition.

They are preaching only to the idiots who will already oppose Biden. There are no converts to be had. More likely, for every death, there are 5 or 10 family members who will be pissed at the party that pushed the propaganda that killed their family member.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #20)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 02:19 PM

22. They're betting on right-leaning swing voters to swing their way

Their hope is that we'll reach 1,000,000 dead just weeks before the 2022 polls - the perfect distraction from their months of sabotaging all abatement/vaccine efforts.

"Look at Biden's dead!" they'll bellow. "He lied - a million died!!"

Something along those lines.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #16)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 04:51 PM

32. What is your opinion on the large numbers of AA folks not getting vaxxed?

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Response to Treefrog (Reply #32)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 04:54 PM

33. It's terrible. We need to find a way to reach them.

But if they are as obstinate as the Republicans, I will lose patience with them too.

And yes, I get the electoral implications, which is why I am a bit more patient with them.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #33)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 05:36 PM

35. And LeBron refuses to speak out. Haven't heard Oprah either.

Iíve heard very few black leaders speak on this. Itís troubling.

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Response to Treefrog (Reply #32)

Fri Jul 23, 2021, 08:16 AM

36. it's more understandable but tragic too

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #9)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 01:23 PM

14. Absolutely. They Will Point to the Higher Death Rates in Red States...

...and argue that it is due to some secret program to target red voters, rather than the result of their own deadly propaganda.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 12:33 PM

10. Good

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 01:21 PM

12. It takes a while to submit, review, revise and publish.

The study was done when alpha variant was still dominant.
It's no longer the case.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #12)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 04:37 PM

29. The study included testing for the delta variant.

So it doesn't matter if it was dominant at that time; they only selected subjects who were infected with that variant.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #12)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 04:46 PM

30. True. Thanks for pointing that out.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 02:46 PM

26. I think that the Repukes' strategy...

Was to capitalize on the unpopularity of the vaccines and mask mandates to dent the Dems wherever they can before the midterms.

Now that it's killing their own voters off, they are starting to backtrack.

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Response to Dopers_Greed (Reply #26)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 03:46 PM

27. Exactly. And it gets me how many here on DU are blind to their strategy and just keep feeding it.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Thu Jul 22, 2021, 05:13 PM

34. That is why I am so disappointed whenever we hear reports about "break-through" infections

in vaccinated people, they rarely mention which vaccine taken

I had the Pfizer vaccine, but when I am out in public, indoors or out, I wear a mask



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