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Mon Nov 8, 2021, 09:53 AM

Satellite images show China built mock-ups of US warships

Source: AP

BEIJING (AP) — Satellite images show China has built mock-ups of a U.S. Navy aircraft carrier and destroyer in its northwestern desert, possibly for practice for a future naval clash as tensions rise between the nations.

China has massively upgraded its military in recent years, and its capability and intentions are increasingly concerning to the United States as tensions rise over the South China Sea, Taiwan and military supremacy in the Indo-Pacific.

The images captured by Colorado-based satellite imagery company Maxar Technologies dated Sunday show the outlines of a U.S. aircraft carrier and at least one destroyer sitting on a railway track.

Maxar identified the location as Ruoqiang, a Taklamakan Desert county in the northwestern Xinjiang region.



This satellite image provided by Maxar Technologies shows a building on rail tracks in Ruoqiang county, China, Wednesday, Oct. 20, 2021. Satellite images appear to show China has built mock-ups of U.S. Navy aircraft carriers and destroyers in its northwestern desert, such as one at center in this image, possibly as practice for a future naval clash as tensions rise between the nations. (Maxar Technologies via AP)


Read more: https://apnews.com/article/business-china-united-states-beijing-navy-da8da0eb9a4a6d9e53671d25837cae11

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Reply Satellite images show China built mock-ups of US warships (Original post)
Omaha Steve Nov 2021 OP
NurseJackie Nov 2021 #1
Alexander Of Assyria Nov 2021 #3
4Q2u2 Nov 2021 #5
Igel Nov 2021 #31
NurseJackie Nov 2021 #33
EX500rider Nov 2021 #35
Alexander Of Assyria Nov 2021 #2
marble falls Nov 2021 #4
Alexander Of Assyria Nov 2021 #6
EX500rider Nov 2021 #36
Alexander Of Assyria Nov 2021 #46
bucolic_frolic Nov 2021 #7
TreasonousBastard Nov 2021 #8
EX500rider Nov 2021 #37
Calista241 Nov 2021 #43
Alexander Of Assyria Nov 2021 #47
EX500rider Nov 2021 #49
Alexander Of Assyria Nov 2021 #51
EX500rider Nov 2021 #52
doc03 Nov 2021 #9
bluewater Nov 2021 #30
reACTIONary Nov 2021 #42
Calista241 Nov 2021 #44
OneCrazyDiamond Nov 2021 #10
Alexander Of Assyria Nov 2021 #12
OneCrazyDiamond Nov 2021 #13
Fred Garvin Nov 2021 #19
Alexander Of Assyria Nov 2021 #34
Gore1FL Nov 2021 #11
AZLD4Candidate Nov 2021 #14
sarisataka Nov 2021 #16
AZLD4Candidate Nov 2021 #22
sarisataka Nov 2021 #26
Igel Nov 2021 #32
Fred Garvin Nov 2021 #18
AZLD4Candidate Nov 2021 #24
marble falls Nov 2021 #40
Fred Garvin Nov 2021 #20
AZLD4Candidate Nov 2021 #23
ThoughtCriminal Nov 2021 #15
Mysterian Nov 2021 #17
LudwigPastorius Nov 2021 #21
soryang Nov 2021 #39
jgmiller Nov 2021 #25
Evolve Dammit Nov 2021 #27
Sapient Donkey Nov 2021 #28
KG Nov 2021 #29
EX500rider Nov 2021 #38
Red Mountain Nov 2021 #41
Calista241 Nov 2021 #45
EX500rider Nov 2021 #50
jrandom421 Nov 2021 #48

Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 10:05 AM

1. Of course they knew it would be seen by satellites.

They didn't need an actual mock-up for target practice. It's an overt threat and warning.

I imagine that Xi also has a photo of Biden pinned to a dartboard in his gameroom too.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 10:12 AM

3. Not much concern on my part of the annual paper mache boats parade. Also don't see how

satellites observing the paper tigers being a threat to anyone.

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Response to Alexander Of Assyria (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 10:22 AM

5. Correct

Also mock ups don't shoot back. Easy to look good against that.
It could be used to see how good our satellites are.
Or shiny thing over hear, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 06:25 PM

31. Various law enforcement agencies in the US have built mock city blocks.

Not so much for "target practice" as for urban combat scenarios, if, for example, you had a group of 10 "militiamen" of whatever color/religion/ideology occupying an area and needing removal.

I'm going to say that this isn't for "target practice" (since most sea battles aren't fought on sand) but to practice boarding and taking a ship.

Or maybe it was somebody's high school science project.

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Response to Igel (Reply #31)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 06:45 PM

33. Ha! The last one seems possible, too.

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Response to Igel (Reply #31)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 07:35 PM

35. I believe it was to test their new steerable IRBM warheads ability to hit that size target. nt

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 10:09 AM

2. AP, another problem with the recent warmongering....China does this every year.

As if America doesn’t, we won’t just hear about it.

Much like Iran does defence war exercises this time every year, and NK does artillery drills all the time, like all militaries…but thats the trifecta for AP this week.

The purpose of all of which is both to frighten us and to keep the bloated American military from being seen as over bloated.

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Response to Alexander Of Assyria (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 10:22 AM

4. We use real ships on the sea.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 10:27 AM

6. Yes, and many many more than any other country, at obscene cost.

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Response to Alexander Of Assyria (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 07:36 PM

36. Actually China has a larger navy by number of ships.

We have more tonnage though.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #36)

Wed Nov 10, 2021, 09:14 AM

46. Larger, not near better. 14 carrier groups versus 4 for starters.

Military budget 3x…nuclear warheads 7300 to 280…goes on and on…

Military envy? Not to worry, America is HUGE, also spends twice the percentage of GDP.

Fear is the main driving force veh8nd that extreme fiscal obscenity, so shed the fear and shed the budget,

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 10:35 AM

7. This is the China that TFG accused

Biden of colluding with to alter the election? There went that theory.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 10:37 AM

8. Well, I suppose China sees the US ships in South China Sea and...

environs kinda like we would see Chinese Navy ships in the Caribbean.

Just not supposed to be there.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #8)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 07:40 PM

37. Except the US is not dredging up islands in the Caribbean and then calling it US territory.

That's why other Navies are also doing freedom of the seas passages thru the area.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #8)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 05:40 PM

43. What China has done in the South China Sea,

would be like Italy claiming the Mediterranean Sea as their own territorial waters.

Both scenarios are complete garbage, not compliant with International law, and should be challenged.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 10, 2021, 09:15 AM

47. Yes...you get it...it's called the China Sea, not the USA Sea...for a reason.

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Response to Alexander Of Assyria (Reply #47)

Thu Nov 11, 2021, 12:20 AM

49. So I guess the Gulf of Mexico belongs to Mexico? Or not...

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #49)

Thu Nov 11, 2021, 09:47 AM

51. Don't see Chinese warships plying the Gulf of Mexico, it's international waters tho, so they

could, as America cruises every sea in the world, cause it is imperialistic, still.

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Response to Alexander Of Assyria (Reply #51)

Thu Nov 11, 2021, 10:46 AM

52. And I don't see the US trying to claim the Gulf of Mexico

By dredging up islands and claiming they are US territory

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 10:38 AM

9. It's interesting just a few weeks after we get out of Afghanistan China has become a big

threat. Could it be they need a new use for all that money? If we don't have a hot war we are always
preparing for another one.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 06:17 PM

30. ikr

The Military Industrial Complex never rests.

It must be fed, continually.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 10:49 PM

42. General Mattis's 2018 National Defense Strategy prioritized China.....

General Mattis’s 2018 National Defense Strategy prioritized China and Russia as concerns and diminished the import of terrorist and asymmetric forces.

China is a strategic competitor using predatory economics to intimidate its neighbors while militarizing features in the South China Sea. China is leveraging military modernization, influence operations, and predatory economics to coerce neighboring countries to reorder the Indo-Pacific region to their advantage. As China continues its economic and military ascendance, asserting power through an all-of-nation long-term strategy, it will continue to pursue a military modernization program that seeks Indo-Pacific regional hegemony in the near-term and displacement of the United States to achieve global preeminence in the future. The most far-reaching objective of this defense strategy is to set the military relationship between our two countries on a path of transparency and non-aggression.


https://dod.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/2018-National-Defense-Strategy-Summary.pdf



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Response to doc03 (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 05:42 PM

44. The media is just paying attention to it now.

The South China Sea dispute has been going on since well before 2013 when they started building the islands.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 11:57 AM

10. The march to WW III continues.

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Response to OneCrazyDiamond (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 12:24 PM

12. Th march parade gonna need more than paper floats.

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Response to Alexander Of Assyria (Reply #12)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 12:27 PM

13. They use the news

to lead us to fear. The fear leads us to war.

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Response to Alexander Of Assyria (Reply #12)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 02:55 PM

19. Chinese Parade



The Chinese military is nothing to sneeze at.

They also have the world by the balls as far as high tech fabrication sites.

Also, the worlds best educated engineers and scientists.

Just sayin

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Response to Fred Garvin (Reply #19)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 07:32 PM

34. Since America outspends the next 8 nations combined on military...who has whose balls?

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 12:18 PM

11. They'll have a chance at destroying the models, I guess.

The real ones with defensive and offensive capabilities might prove to be a bigger challenge...

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 12:46 PM

14. China has one deep blue fleet, we have eleven

China does not have ICBM or First Strike. We do
China only has mid-range missiles. We have long range.

The Chinese army can't even line up straight or wear uniforms that aren't stained or wrinkled. The lack of discipline in front of their officers i mind boggling.

But when people don't know anything their "enemy" and what they know is all fearmongering and warmongering, you get articles like this that enhance the narrative the MIC and the media (the unofficial public relations wonks for the Department of Defense) want people to have.

Xi Jinping is a complete coward and the Chinese military is a paper tiger.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 02:27 PM

16. Your information is quite out of date

The DF-5 is an ICBM with a range of over 12,000km. It has been in service since 1981. The DF-31 also has intercontinental capabilities.

I wonder where you have had the opportunity to work PLA to observe their discipline. Your summation of them sounds like something from 1950s propaganda about why we shouldn't fear their intervention in Korea. Concerning discipline issues for China are more about corruption at the officer level than the rank and file.

It is fair to criticize their effectiveness in battle as recent (the last 30 years or so) outcomes could charitably be called mixed. However when referring to them as a paper tiger it pays to remember their human resource pool. If they can pile enough paper on an opponent it will eventually be smothered.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #16)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 03:59 PM

22. Okay. I just lived there for 12 years. what do I know?

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #22)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 05:37 PM

26. Well, you were unaware

That China has had ICBMs for forty years.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #22)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 06:26 PM

32. If the DPRC is anything like the USSR,

in many ways you're better positioned to know many things about the country because you *don't* live there.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 02:45 PM

18. China Has ICBM's

Dongfeng 41 (CSS-20) is both intercontinental and holds 10 to 12 nuke MIRV missiles.
The longest range missile on the planet.

Don't underestimate the Chinese.

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Response to Fred Garvin (Reply #18)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 04:02 PM

24. Still a paper tiger.

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Response to Fred Garvin (Reply #18)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 08:07 PM

40. Don't over estimate them, either. The US hs more ICBM missile subs than the Chinese ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercontinental_ballistic_missile

Intercontinental-range submarine-launched ballistic missiles
Trident missile launch at sea from a Royal Navy Vanguard-class ballistic missile submarine

United States The U.S. Navy currently has 18 Ohio-class submarines deployed, of which 14 are designated SSBNs and armed with 24 Trident II SLBMs each, for a total of 288 Trident II missiles equipped with 1,152 MIRV nuclear warheads.

Russia The Russian Navy currently has 14 SSBNs deployed, including 3 Delta III-class submarines, 6 Delta IV-class submarines, 1 Typhoon-class submarine and 4 Borei-class submarines.[20] Missiles include R-29R SLBMs, R-29RMU Sineva / R-29RMU2 Liner SLBMs with MIRV warheads and Bulava SLBMs with MIRV warheads.

United Kingdom The United Kingdom's Royal Navy has four Vanguard-class SSBNs, each armed with 16 Trident II SLBMs with MIRV warheads for a total of 64 Trident II missiles and 225 nuclear warheads.

France The French Navy has four Triomphant-class SSBNs each armed with 16 M45s SLBMs with TN75 MIRV nuclear warheads. The M45 SLBMs are scheduled to be upgraded to M51.1 and M51.2 (expected to enter service in 2015).

China The People's Republic of China's People's Liberation Army Navy has five Type 094 SSBNs each to be armed with 12-16 JL-2 SLBMs.

India: It was revealed in 2011 that India is developing a submarine launch ballistic missiles based on some variants of the Agni series, the K Missile family which will be a series of submarine-launched solid fueled missiles. K-5 missile, with a maximum range of 6,000 to 8000 kilometers and a payload of one tonne, is under development by DRDO which may be the SLBM version of AGNI-VI (ICBM).[21] India, having completed the development of its first ballistic missile submarine INS Arihant, is reported to be developing at least four submarines in the Arihant class.[22]

What are you so afraid of? The number of MIRV payload on the Trident is classified and rumored to be 10, next to the JL-2 is a three-stage, solid-fuelled missile,[3] with a maximum range of 7,200 km (4,500 mi).[7] Its payload is a single[3] 1 Megaton warhead[5] or 3-8 MIRVs with yields of 20, 90, or 150kt.[2] warheaded Chinese missiles.

What is your real concern?

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 02:59 PM

20. Chinese wrinkled uniforms?



Don't underestimate them

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Response to Fred Garvin (Reply #20)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 04:01 PM

23. Those are the color guard. Everyone in China knows that is done for propaganda

That's done for an international audience.

North Korea does the same thing.

Consider I've lived there and am married to one and own a house there and speak the language fluently, and know the culture. . .if you haven't lived there you don't really have grounds to speak.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 01:44 PM

15. This is pretty standard Chinese military practice

There are places where they build huge terrain models for potential land battle locations.

https://www.gearthblog.com/blog/archives/2006/07/huge_scale_mode.html

It's a sort of "Analog Virtual Reality" for training and planning.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 02:28 PM

17. Oh, I feel so threatened!

Let's add a trillion to the "defense" budget.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 03:16 PM

21. Needs to be read:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/us-china-war/620571/

Analysts and officials in Washington are fretting over worsening tensions between the United States and China and the risks to the world of two superpowers once again clashing rather than cooperating. President Joe Biden has said that America “is not seeking a new cold war.” But that is the wrong way to look at U.S.-China relations. A cold war with Beijing is already under way. The right question, instead, is whether America can deter China from initiating a hot one.

Beijing is a remarkably ambitious revanchist power, one determined to make China whole again by “reuniting” Taiwan with the mainland, turning the East and South China Seas into Chinese lakes, and grabbing regional primacy as a stepping-stone to global power. It is also increasingly encircled, and faces growing resistance on many fronts—just the sort of scenario that has led it to lash out in the past.

The historical record since the founding of the People’s Republic of China in 1949 is clear: When confronted by a mounting threat to its geopolitical interests, Beijing does not wait to be attacked; it shoots first to gain the advantage of surprise.

In conflicts including the Korean War and clashes with Vietnam in 1979, China has often viewed the use of force as an educational exercise. It is willing to pick even a very costly fight with a single enemy to teach it, and others observing from the sidelines, a lesson.

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Response to LudwigPastorius (Reply #21)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 08:04 PM

39. The best and the brightest syndrome here

... from two authors from the academic/think tank echo chamber. They encourage every cliche and misperception concerning China in one essay. China’s collapsing, it’s in danger of losing its legitimacy, it’s the aggressor, the neighboring states in Southeast Asia are aligned against it, etc. Taiwan is the PRCs “rival.” In another absurd contention, rearming Japan will “help.” It’s also China that will start a war because its window of opportunity is “closing.” China is painted as an aggressor in the most obvious example of US projection of its own worst qualities onto the “other.” Besides Beckley’s other institutional affiliations, his association with Tufts marks him as a militarist.

Brands seems to be in the arms lobbying think tank category. There is so much distortion and misrepresentation in the essay, it is a masterful piece of propaganda. Each and every US disaster in the far east has been preceded by such a package of delusional characterizations of the targeted other.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 04:04 PM

25. This just proves what we already know

China's military is NOT stupid. This is what they should be doing and what we probably do now with digital assets to them and Russia.

The US navy has repainted their aggressor squadron planes in typical Chinese paint schemes so at least someone over here is on the ball.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 05:37 PM

27. The ignorance of posters on this thread is remarkable.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 05:44 PM

28. While I don't dismiss the Chinese military as a peaceful or as a harmless paper tiger

I am not sure this means much. Isn't this what all militaries do? They prepare to fight the most likely enemy they may face? I believe the US Marines built a full-sized mock-up of a Chinese stealth strike fighter.

My bigger concern is how certain people on the right will try to use this for domestic propaganda against the Biden admin. It doesn't matter if their claims do not make any sense and if they can easily be disputed and shown to be illogical, the fact remains that it's the red meat their base wants and will eat up without question. Which seems like a huge win for China, because it means that if there ever is a serious real threat posed by China or any other nation, we're not a serious enough country to deal with it..

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 05:57 PM

29. imagine that, China preparing to protect itself from a proven aggressive / rogue superpower.

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Response to KG (Reply #29)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 07:43 PM

38. I wonder who Taiwan & India & Tibet & Philippines etc think is the "rogue superpower" in the area

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 08:52 PM

41. A mock warship pulled in a straight line on tracks

does not suggest the kind of targeting accuracy that a dynamic environment would require.

I wouldn't ignore the effort, though. It looks like a PR stunt like Iran would attempt but it does signal their intentions.

And they are far more capable than Iran.

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Response to Red Mountain (Reply #41)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 05:49 PM

45. We use standard containers for our weapons testing.

Making them to look like US Navy ships is a bit provocative. The turn in the tracks is pretty extreme and is supposed to simulate a turn made by a ship under fire. Other sources have even discussed the presence of chaff dispensers and other countermeasures so they can test the weapons more thoroughly.

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Response to Red Mountain (Reply #41)

Thu Nov 11, 2021, 12:25 AM

50. I imagine it is for testing the terminal target guidance system for the DF-21D ballistic missile

A lot of modern warheads use pattern recognition for terminal mode, good idea to test it on a similar looking target.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Wed Nov 10, 2021, 11:53 PM

48. Loks Nice except

1. there are no US wespons fring back and that can make BIG difference.

2 As the Navy's own SINKEX (sinking decommissioned ships) have shown, it's really difficult to sink Navy ships, and damage control is a big part of the training.

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