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Omaha Steve

(99,059 posts)
Mon Nov 8, 2021, 07:36 PM Nov 2021

Metallurgist admits faking steel-test results for Navy subs

Source: AP

By GENE JOHNSON

SEATTLE (AP) — A metallurgist in Washington state pleaded guilty to fraud Monday after she spent decades faking the results of strength tests on steel that was being used to make U.S. Navy submarines.

Elaine Marie Thomas, 67, of Auburn, Washington, was the director of metallurgy at a foundry in Tacoma that supplied steel castings used by Navy contractors Electric Boat and Newport News Shipbuilding to make submarine hulls.

From 1985 through 2017, Thomas falsified the results of strength and toughness tests for at least 240 productions of steel — about half the steel the foundry produced for the Navy, according to her plea agreement, filed Monday in U.S. District Court in Tacoma. The tests were intended to show that the steel would not fail in a collision or in certain “wartime scenarios,” the Justice Department said.

There was no allegation that any submarine hulls failed, but authorities said the Navy had incurred increased costs and maintenance to ensure they remain seaworthy. The government did not disclose which subs were affected.

Read more: https://apnews.com/article/business-washington-tacoma-shipbuilding-us-navy-8f9d5d69411642689696d6b52a290f95

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Metallurgist admits faking steel-test results for Navy subs (Original Post) Omaha Steve Nov 2021 OP
Omg 😳😳😳 please tell me she is in jail Demovictory9 Nov 2021 #1
You should be wondering who paid her ... follow the money, because it is always the money NotHardly Nov 2021 #11
I hope she spends the rest of her life in jail. Baitball Blogger Nov 2021 #2
She can test the steel confinements she is behind. usaf-vet Nov 2021 #36
......... paleotn Nov 2021 #3
And just how much have taxpayers saved by companies self certifying testing results????? groundloop Nov 2021 #4
Exactly. The government used to do QC, but they managed to get things changed captain queeg Nov 2021 #12
Not anywhere near as much DENVERPOPS Nov 2021 #13
Boeing 737 Max. NCjack Nov 2021 #38
Faces UP TO ten years in prison ... Auggie Nov 2021 #5
She should serve every second of it. LudwigPastorius Nov 2021 #29
10 Years per vessel that contains her steel. I HOPE. usaf-vet Nov 2021 #37
For thirty-two years no one checked up on her work? pecosbob Nov 2021 #6
Yup, no separate auditing by an independent firm to validate her results onetexan Nov 2021 #35
Life without parole with zero TV, newspapers, and internet access forever Submariner Nov 2021 #7
Agree. This is treasonous. Let her have to spend an hour in a room composed of CO's, XO's and artemisia1 Nov 2021 #42
This is not only wrong... keldridge Nov 2021 #8
Welcome to DU, keldridge. area51 Nov 2021 #46
Steel for submarines? That's horrifying Owl Nov 2021 #9
They need to go up her command chain, and nail the ones truly responsible. denbot Nov 2021 #10
Somebody in the Navy's procurement chain needs to be sacked over this...multiple somebodies pecosbob Nov 2021 #20
In most cases these castings were supplied to private shipbuilders NutmegYankee Nov 2021 #28
Find out who knew about it and kept the ordeal quiet. Nail those people, too. sakabatou Nov 2021 #14
With Friends like These SheCat Nov 2021 #15
What's the name of the foundry? LunaSea Nov 2021 #16
But it was not 'stupid' for the Navy to pay her company for such testing not done? keithbvadu2 Nov 2021 #18
Bradken Inc.. Princess Turandot Nov 2021 #19
Thank you LunaSea Nov 2021 #47
At first glance, passing a Charpy test at -100 degrees F might seem ludicrous EYESORE 9001 Nov 2021 #27
Gee, where have I heard this before. Oh, now I remember. PSPS Nov 2021 #17
The China Syndrome krispos42 Nov 2021 #25
What about the company owners, Board? CanonRay Nov 2021 #21
Bradken Inc pays 10.8M to settle false claims allegations... Backseat Driver Nov 2021 #32
Proving yet again that corporations are not people CanonRay Nov 2021 #41
So, no oversight, no checks, just hand over money. Insane. niyad Nov 2021 #22
OMG!!! calimary Nov 2021 #23
She need to go away for life (at least). harumph Nov 2021 #24
Better not dive those babies too deep ironflange Nov 2021 #26
Interesting...(ship names?) Backseat Driver Nov 2021 #30
Interesting...(ship names?) Backseat Driver Nov 2021 #31
I shudder to think of the sailors whose lives could be at risk due to a weakened structure. NH Ethylene Nov 2021 #33
She faked the -100 deg F tests b/c she thought they were "stupid" [sic] NullTuples Nov 2021 #34
It not so much temp as proof of ductility. NutmegYankee Nov 2021 #45
Probably important for a sub at the Antarctic... NullTuples Nov 2021 #48
No. NutmegYankee Nov 2021 #49
Ductility in cold temps, yes? NullTuples Nov 2021 #50
Operating temps aren't the reason for the test. NutmegYankee Nov 2021 #51
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain it! NullTuples Nov 2021 #52
I've interviewed for jobs where it seemed that's exactly the sort of person they were looking for. hunter Nov 2021 #39
Follow the money. This was not a random act of stupidity. Firestorm49 Nov 2021 #40
job stupidity Slammer Nov 2021 #43
Threatened by her employer? Jimbo S Nov 2021 #44

captain queeg

(10,035 posts)
12. Exactly. The government used to do QC, but they managed to get things changed
Mon Nov 8, 2021, 08:31 PM
Nov 2021

Now the government does QA, quality assurance, which is just letting contractors run the show and do their own QC.

Submariner

(12,483 posts)
7. Life without parole with zero TV, newspapers, and internet access forever
Mon Nov 8, 2021, 08:11 PM
Nov 2021

and if there is a female Master Chief she should be allowed to punch treason weasel Elaine in the mouth.

Let's hope no boats have a mechanical failure that dooms the boat and crew due to her deliberate negligence. What a horrible human being.

artemisia1

(756 posts)
42. Agree. This is treasonous. Let her have to spend an hour in a room composed of CO's, XO's and
Tue Nov 9, 2021, 04:34 PM
Nov 2021

CMCPO's as well as parents of young sailors. She can answer their "questions"...

keldridge

(9 posts)
8. This is not only wrong...
Mon Nov 8, 2021, 08:13 PM
Nov 2021

This is horrifying. As a civil engineer myself I hate to see someone else compromising safety like this. And I hate it that it was another woman

denbot

(9,894 posts)
10. They need to go up her command chain, and nail the ones truly responsible.
Mon Nov 8, 2021, 08:30 PM
Nov 2021

She did not commit her crimes in a vacuum. She was not the primary beneficiary of her acts. Prosecuting her is like clipping off the rattles of a diamond back. It's the bitey end that's the danger.

NutmegYankee

(16,177 posts)
28. In most cases these castings were supplied to private shipbuilders
Mon Nov 8, 2021, 11:42 PM
Nov 2021

While the navy can destroy smaller parts for destructive testing like a Charpy test, once you get into $800,000+ castings, it really isn't an option. The production rate is very low. It's also going to legally dubious to fire someone in the procurement chain - the certification paperwork was properly filled out and signed by the foundry with a clear warning right on the sheet that fraudulent statements is a felony - what did you expect that person to do?

LunaSea

(2,892 posts)
16. What's the name of the foundry?
Mon Nov 8, 2021, 08:51 PM
Nov 2021

All the stories I'm finding manage to omit that detail.
Their execs and board have a lot of explaining to do.

"In June 2020, the company agreed to pay $10.9 million in a deferred-prosecution agreement.

When confronted with the doctored results, Thomas told investigators, “Yeah, that looks bad,” the Justice Department said. She suggested that in some cases she changed the tests to passing grades because she thought it was “stupid” that the Navy required the tests to be conducted at negative-100 degrees Fahrenheit (negative-73.3 degrees Celsius)."

keithbvadu2

(36,360 posts)
18. But it was not 'stupid' for the Navy to pay her company for such testing not done?
Mon Nov 8, 2021, 09:16 PM
Nov 2021

But it was not 'stupid' for the Navy to pay her company for such testing not done?

EYESORE 9001

(25,811 posts)
27. At first glance, passing a Charpy test at -100 degrees F might seem ludicrous
Mon Nov 8, 2021, 11:40 PM
Nov 2021

but the material is over engineered for very good reasons. Specifications are not written with the most extreme conditions likely to be encountered in mind. The requirements are often 2-3 times more stringent than that.

PSPS

(13,512 posts)
17. Gee, where have I heard this before. Oh, now I remember.
Mon Nov 8, 2021, 08:52 PM
Nov 2021

JACK GODELL (Jack Lemon): Did you sign for these X rays?

D. B. ROYCE (Paul Larson): That's my signature. What about it?

JACK GODELL: You signed the same one over and over.

D. B. ROYCE: All the welds are fine.

JACK GODELL: How do you know if you didn't check?

D. B. ROYCE: Every weld I checked was fine.

JACK GODELL: How many didn't you check?

D. B. ROYCE: I said all the welds were fine.

JACK GODELL: How can you say all the welds are fine? The plant may not be safe.

D. B. ROYCE: That plant is perfectly safe.

JACK GODELL: We may have a serious problem. I don't have time to go through every X ray. I get a straight answer or else. Now, how many and which ones?

D. B. ROYCE: I don't remember.

---- ROYCE THROWS THE XRAYS IN A DRUM WHERE A FIRE IS BURNING

JACK GODELL: There's more where those came from. You know the procedures.

D. B. ROYCE: There's no problem. Don't make a problem. Those welds have held for six years. They'll hold for 6,000 more.

JACK GODELL: I'm goin' to the N.R.C.

---- GODELL WALKS QUICKLY TOWARD HIS CAR

D. B. ROYCE: Wait a minute.

---- ROYCE FOLLOWS GODELL AND TRIES TO GRAB HIS ARM

JACK GODELL: Get off me.

D. B. ROYCE: Think it over! You're talkin' about a billion-dollar lawsuit. It'll send them into receivership. Will you wait a minute? Slow down! Goddamn it!

---- ROYCE TRIES AGAIN TO GRAB GODELL'S ARM. GODELL GETS INTO HIS CAR.

JACK GODELL: Get your hands off me!

---- GODELL SPEEDS AWAY WHILE ROYCE YELLS AFTER HIM

D. B. ROYCE: You're not dealing with some pissant public utility company. This is Foster-Sullivan, one of the world's biggest construction companies. They've got their own security men. Do you hear what I'm saying? I hope I don't have to spell it out for you. You gotta think that over! Wait! They have their own security men!

Backseat Driver

(4,333 posts)
32. Bradken Inc pays 10.8M to settle false claims allegations...
Tue Nov 9, 2021, 01:14 AM
Nov 2021

Last edited Tue Nov 9, 2021, 01:50 AM - Edit history (1)

https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdwa/pr/bradken-inc-pays-108-million-settle-false-claims-act-allegations-and-enters-deferred

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Monday, June 15, 2020

[snip] Bradken is a Delaware corporation with its principal place of business in Kansas City, Missouri, operating as a wholly owned subsidiary of Bradken Ltd. of Newcastle, Australia, which is a subsidiary of Hitachi Construction Machinery. [snip]

LOL - I didn't explore any bios, if any. Wanna go to bed, hehehe - Go for it, explorers!
https://www.bradken.com/about-us/corporate-governance/

Backseat Driver

(4,333 posts)
30. Interesting...(ship names?)
Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:48 AM
Nov 2021
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/43005/australia-could-push-to-aquire-retired-us-navy-los-angeles-class-nuclear-submarines

Australia Could Push To Acquire Retired US Navy Los Angeles Class Nuclear Submarines
Ex-Prime Minister floats using retired U.S. or U.K. nuclear submarines to bridge the gap until Australian-built ones can enter service.

The U.S. Navy has experience turning Los Angeles-class submarines into floating schoolhouses. This past summer, the ex-USS San Francisco completed its conversion from a nuclear-powered attack submarine (SSN) to a moored training ship, MTS-711, now operating in Charleston, South Carolina. There it joined the converted former USS La Jolla, which began its new life in this training role last year. And while Abbott clearly is calling for a deployable vessel, not an MTS, if two subs were obtained, a moored training ship might be a valuable teaching tool to add.[snip] More...

More re HMS sub-building plans: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42418/uk-starts-work-on-a-new-nuclear-submarine-right-after-australia-says-its-looking-to-buy

Backseat Driver

(4,333 posts)
31. Interesting...(ship names?)
Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:58 AM
Nov 2021
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/43005/australia-could-push-to-aquire-retired-us-navy-los-angeles-class-nuclear-submarines

Australia Could Push To Acquire Retired US Navy Los Angeles Class Nuclear Submarines
Ex-Prime Minister floats using retired U.S. or U.K. nuclear submarines to bridge the gap until Australian-built ones can enter service.

The U.S. Navy has experience turning Los Angeles-class submarines into floating schoolhouses. This past summer, the ex-USS San Francisco completed its conversion from a nuclear-powered attack submarine (SSN) to a moored training ship, MTS-711, now operating in Charleston, South Carolina. There it joined the converted former USS La Jolla, which began its new life in this training role last year. And while Abbott clearly is calling for a deployable vessel, not an MTS, if two subs were obtained, a moored training ship might be a valuable teaching tool to add.[snip] More...

More re HMS sub-building plans: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42418/uk-starts-work-on-a-new-nuclear-submarine-right-after-australia-says-its-looking-to-buy

NH Ethylene

(30,793 posts)
33. I shudder to think of the sailors whose lives could be at risk due to a weakened structure.
Tue Nov 9, 2021, 01:50 AM
Nov 2021

It's too bad she didn't find that as abhorrent as the rest of us do.

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
34. She faked the -100 deg F tests b/c she thought they were "stupid" [sic]
Tue Nov 9, 2021, 03:50 AM
Nov 2021

The Navy has not found that any of the steel is indeed weaker.

My question is, why would the Navy need testing at that temp?

Well, in August 2010 East Antarctica hit -135.8 degrees Fahrenheit. This year, 2021, it reached -135.3 degrees.

NutmegYankee

(16,177 posts)
45. It not so much temp as proof of ductility.
Tue Nov 9, 2021, 07:20 PM
Nov 2021

It proves the crystal structure is of a ductile form that won’t crack or propagate cracks from a defect.

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
50. Ductility in cold temps, yes?
Wed Nov 10, 2021, 06:35 PM
Nov 2021

I'm not trying to be oppositional, I'm trying to figure out the point I'm obviously missing.

My understanding:
In the Antarctic, the water can be 28.8 degrees Fahrenheit / minus 1.8 degrees Celsius.
When surfaced, the above water parts of the sub are subjected to temps as low as -89 deg Celsius (although that's mitigated somewhat by heat from inside and heat from the parts underwater).
When steel is cold, it can get brittle. Somewhere around -30 to -100 degrees Celsius, from what I understand, based on alloy, etc..
Ductility is the opposite of brittleness.

NutmegYankee

(16,177 posts)
51. Operating temps aren't the reason for the test.
Wed Nov 10, 2021, 08:19 PM
Nov 2021

Steel that can perform well at -100 demonstrates that the heat treatment (tempering) was properly performed and has produced very high quality steel. It demonstrates steel that is resistant to cracking from fatigue cycling while maintaining high strength. Steel with poor heat treatment might pass a 0 degree test, but it’ll flunk a -100 every time.

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
52. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain it!
Wed Nov 10, 2021, 08:36 PM
Nov 2021

I think I finally get it. The "operating temps not the reason" was what I needed (along with the rest).

hunter

(38,264 posts)
39. I've interviewed for jobs where it seemed that's exactly the sort of person they were looking for.
Tue Nov 9, 2021, 10:48 AM
Nov 2021

Nothing in writing, nothing explicitly said, but it was obvious they were looking for someone who demonstrated that kind of cost cutting "initiative."

Of course her employers knew. That's what they were paying her for.

It will be an injustice if she's the only one prosecuted.

Unfortunately with the decline of manufacturing in the United States this may be the only U.S. company that makes those sorts of steel components. The Navy may not have another U.S. supplier so they won't want to damage their relationship with this company.

Slammer

(714 posts)
43. job stupidity
Tue Nov 9, 2021, 04:45 PM
Nov 2021

"She suggested that in some cases she changed the tests to passing grades because she thought it was “stupid” that the Navy required the tests to be conducted at negative-100 degrees Fahrenheit".

FYI the bottom of the ocean ranges from 31 to 37 degrees.

So could it be argued that it was "stupid" that the tests be conducted at minus 100?

Sure...if you ignore that surface temps are much more harsh than underwater temps and a functional sub can't stay submerged forever.

But she was hired to do a job, not to personally figure out how stupid that job was and then secretly not do it.

Throw the book at her. Ten years and a million dollars isn't enough punishment, IMO.

Jimbo S

(2,952 posts)
44. Threatened by her employer?
Tue Nov 9, 2021, 05:03 PM
Nov 2021

Signed the certs...or else...

I've worked in several foundries. I've witnessed one-step shy of what I described above.


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