Alec Baldwin calls for police officers on film sets after fatal 'Rust' shooting

[mahatmakanejeeves]

Source: Washington Post

Arts and Entertainment

Alec Baldwin calls for police officers on film sets after fatal ‘Rust’ shooting

By Adela Suliman
Today at 5:23 a.m. EST

Actor Alec Baldwin is calling for police officers to be present on film sets as a means to improve weapons safety, weeks after a fatal shooting of his colleague.

Baldwin discharged a weapon that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, 42, and injured movie director Joel Souza, 48, in October while working on the set of the western film “Rust.”

“Every film/TV set that uses guns, fake or otherwise, should have a police officer on set, hired by the production, to specifically monitor weapons safety,” he wrote on Instagram on Monday.

Weapons safety on set is normally the domain of an armorer or a firearms specialist. The armorer ensures they look realistic and are appropriate for the setting of the film and most importantly, the armorer is tasked with making sure the weapons are clean, correctly loaded, properly kept up and safely handled. However, there is usually little formal training required to become one.

{snip}

By Adela Suliman
Adela Suliman is a breaking-news reporter in The Washington Post's London hub. Twitter https://twitter.com/Adela_Suliman

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2021/11/09/alec-baldwin-halyna-hutchins-shooting-police/

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Un-defund the police.

Doesn't the NRA certify people to train other people in firearms safety?

Maybe he could hire one of them.

[ripcord]

1. Alec Baldwin is an idiot

If he were concerned about gun safety on sets he would be calling for weapons that fire live ammo to be illegal on movies sets, he did just kill someone after all.

[BlackSkimmer]

5. Yes he is. We know damn well he'd have double-checked that gun if the scene called for it to be

aimed at his own head.

[cstanleytech]

40. SCOTUS would likely scuttle such a law though due to the 2nd Amendment.

[rockfordfile]

51. That would have noting to do with the second amendment

[cstanleytech]

53. It would as the filmmakers would argue that it infringes on their 2nd amendment rights not to mentio

also the 1st amendment ones as well.
Don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to such laws personally rather I am simply pointing out the reason why any such law would face a challenge.
Really the only way to prevent such a challenge is for the 2nd to be amended but that is honestly unlikely to happen within the next 50 years if ever.

[Hortensis]

63. Maybe, but when we lived there cops were often at shoots in L.A.,

standing around and gabbing, presumably in case people might bother them, etc., but when I noticed them they were always hanging out with people at the shoot, no need to attend to anything else. There was the cop whose car I had to swerve to avoid hitting on a dark, curvy road because he'd parked it sticking out into my lane, but he responded to my backing up and honking by waving me on from where he was watching the shoot.

I'm with those who think Baldwin's call is assinine and doubt he's sincere.

[whistler162]

66. If he had been concerned HIS production

company would have hired the correct number of qualified people to handle weapons and ammo. He is flailing since HIS production company is going to have a lot of legal issues even if they dodge criminal charges.

[Arkansas Granny]

2. Why is it necessary to have real firearms on a movie set? Can't replicas be used?

[JohnnyRingo]

30. I think the fear is it will look as real as Star Wars.

They can add smoke & fire in post, but that doesn't cover the "kick" or the flinch that comes with shooting a real gun. Perhaps a better idea may be replica movie guns that can only be loaded with blanks. Actors could still get hurt or even burned, but safety precautions can be taken.

[lagomorph777]

43. Nonsense - they can do all of that in post - make it look realer than real even.

My question is: Why do we still need movies that celebrate violence? Do we have a shortage of violence in our society?

[EX500rider]

45. "Why do we still need movies that celebrate violence?"

1st we don't "need" any kind of movies and 2nd film studios make movies they think will be popular.

[JohnnyRingo]

55. "Celebrate"?

[lagomorph777]

62. Perhaps one of these phrases will work better:

"demonstrate violence as a problem-solving tool, rather than the problem"
"glorify violence"
"train kids in how to commit violence"
"desensitize people to violence"

[JohnnyRingo]

64. They make movies people will pay to see.

If movie goers were repulsed by today's violent offering, we'd be seeing trailers for Little House On The Prairie IX, More Tales Of Grizzly Adams, and Napoleon Dynamite, The Director's Cut.

Kids in Canada play the same video games and watch the same movies but don't walk into classrooms and shoot peers. Can't blame the media for everything.

[marshall]

65. Bring back the Hays Code?

The so-called Hays Code was enacted in 1934 in response to the Howard Hawks 1931 film "Scarface," which incorporated the use of a machine gun. And then we had decades of movie censorship until it was abandoned in 1968.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

58. Shooting blanks won't help much.

First, at close range, blanks can kill. That paper wadding travels at high velocity, a little thing like a skull will not stop it.
Second, blanks don't "kick". They often don't have enough energy to cycle a semi-automatic.
Might as well use plastic toys, add the flash and smoke later.

[Politicub]

72. Gun play never looks real in movies, and that's been true from the start.

Everything from magazines filled with an infinite number of bullets to shooting victims not having a spot of blood on themselves are tropes that people accept as part of the illusion.

There will always be people who quibble with technicalities about gun realism, just as there are people who cannot get beyond some science fiction this-or-that being unrealistic.

[PSPS]

35. Or, why is it necessary for movies to cater to gun fetishists? Gun porn.

[EX500rider]

46. Pretty common for Westerns to have 6 shooters. Don't think I've seen one without guns. nt

[Bayard]

3. "Armorer or a firearms specialist"

Should be certified. "There is usually little formal training required to become one."

Baldwin is traumatized, and will never get over this. Tragic all the way around.

[ripcord]

9. He should be traumatized

He mishandled a firearm, not a prop, a functioning firearm and killed someone. "I didn't know it was loaded" is never an acceptable defense, as you pointed out armorers on sets have no certifications or special training, in the eyes of the law it is no different than your friend handing you a gun and telling you it is unloaded. The person holding the gun is responsible for it, no one else, just because it was used on a movie set doesn't absolve Baldwin of the same responsibility anyone using a gun has.

[twodogsbarking]

11. Guns are used thousands of times on TV and movie sets.

I doubt they are checked by the actors holding them.

[ripcord]

15. That doesn't change the fact that by law Baldwin was responsible for the gun he was holding

In the law there is nothing that says actors are exempt from practicing the same firearms safety required of everyone else. If you are going to handle a firearm that fires live ammo you and no one else have the responsibility for its safety under the law. There are no laws or regulations dealing with the use of firearms on sets so the laws that apply to everyone apply here.

[The Mouth]

19. It absolutly does not matter

If you are holding, or about to hold, or carrying a firearm it is *your* responsibility to make sure it is not loaded. Period. There are no legal or moral exceptions, exclusions, or extenuating circumstances, ever.

[twodogsbarking]

20. Do you think they are checked by the actors?

That was my question. Have not seen an answer yet.
I guess it is no.

[The Mouth]

21. Anyone, actor or not, is responsible to check

If they don't/didn't then their ass should spend a long time in jail after being sued for everything they own.

just being an actor is no excuse.

[twodogsbarking]

23. So do you think they are checked by the actors?

[The Mouth]

26. What I think doesn't matter.

What matters is that *anyone* who doesn't check is just as responsible for death or injury as any drunk driver or someone firing a gun at random into houses or crowds.

Anybody who DOESN'T check is an idiot who deserves jail time.
DID they? Do they? probably not; and thousands of evil morons pile into their cars and get on the road with several times the legal limit of alcohol, every day. What *I* think about that matters not at all.

If they were supposed to portray a drunken driver swerving through traffic, would you be OK with them actually being drunk and driving in the midst of rush hour? Same exact degree of culpability, so what if someone else tells you 'it's OK', 100 percent responsibility is on the person performing the action.

[twodogsbarking]

36. I don't think the actors check them.

[The Mouth]

38. Then they are idiots who deserve to be sued and live with having killed someone

Period.

[hadEnuf]

44. I think you are correct. The actors are not specifically self trained in gun safety.

That's what the armorer is for. Many actors probably don't even know which end of the gun to hold until they are told, so to speak.

It's fun for some to shit all over people they don't like but this sounds like an industry wide problem with accidents just waiting to happen. Perhaps it should be law that the actors attend comprehensive firearms training before even touching a gun. Sounds like that should be an armorer's job but apparently that doesn't always happen and the result can be tragedy.

[Mr.Bill]

34. I have read interviews with armorers

who say the proper procedure is for the armorer to open and check the gun in front of the actor and show them that the gun is empty, loaded with blanks, etc. This was obviously not done on Baldwin's set.

[ripcord]

25. It doesn't matter

Movie companies can't change the law that the person holding the firearm is responsible for its safety.

[Ray Bruns]

22. Actors are not firearms experts. How would they know if the M249 SAW

being used in a film is loaded with real or prop ammo? They wouldn't. That is why they hire people (who are supposed to be trained and should be licensed in my opinion) to do that for them.

[ripcord]

27. But armorer aren't trained and licensed

There is no protection under the law for not practicing safe firearms handling even on a movie set, Baldwin is just as responsible as anyone else for handling a firearm safely, it is no different than a friend handing you a gun and telling you it was not loaded, it is still the responsibility of the person handling the gun by law.

[marie999]

32. No one should pick up a weapon unless they know what they are doing.

If the actor is not trained in the weapon then when the weapon is handed to them the armorer should go over the weapon with them including showing them what ammo the weapon is loaded with and explaining what that ammo will do when the weapon is fired. Make sure they understand that a blank can kill.

[Kaleva]

56. The 4 basic rules of gun safety are simple and easy to understand

1. Always treat every gun as if it were loaded.

2. Always point the muzzle in a safe direction.

3. Always keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

4. Always be sure of your target and beyond

[AllaN01Bear]

4. my sis was a stunt woman in the biz. aftra , sag and others should be

looking into this , also alec baldwin should be suing the heck from the property master to the person who handled the gun , the director, the studio and production co, why because they faild to follow proceedures. aftra and sag have strict guidlines on the control of guns . she was on many sets were the actors would go off set and fire live rounds , she could hear them, live rounds have no businnes being on a active set according to her. too many guns in hollywood . i also hear that the director was very lax on saftey an wonder if it was a union or a non union set. makes a big difference.

[whistler162]

67. suing production company is suing himself

[Ray Bruns]

6. What are the cops going to do? Shoot a POC in the back or

kneel on their necks for 9 minutes. Cops are not firearms experts or instructors. You need a person with a decade of experience handling firearms. I would even go so far as to require some kind of license.

And the armorer should have ONE AND ONLY ONE JOB.

[magicarpet]

61. The proficient make mistakes too....

[nilram]

7. In some jurisdictions it takes six or 12 weeks of training to become a cop

The film industry needs to certify armorers and develop standards that don’t cut corners if they’re going to continue with guns in movies.

[Effete Snob]

8. He should really just shut up

He’s not helping himself with wacky public statements.

[sarisataka]

10. It would make far more sense

To have an NRA instructor on set than a cop.

But they already have people trained who are on the set. There are also supposed to be safety classes given to everyone who will handle firearms on set. It doesn't matter who is on set however if you don't implement and follow your safety procedures.

[Crepuscular]

12. Ridiculous

Most cops are not firearms experts and having them on the set would be a total waste of time and money. The whole point of having a competent armorer and prop master on the set, is to prevent accidents from happening. They are the professionals who should be overseeing and monitoring weapons use on set. In this case, it appears that the individuals hired for this film were not particularly competent and that safety was largely ignored, with a tragic result.

Regardless of the incompetence of the armorer and AD on this set, Baldwin broke the cardinal safety rule of never pointing a weapon at another individual.

Baldwin pointed the pistol at 3 other people, manually cocked the single action revolver and then pulled the trigger, firing the gun while it was aimed at the Director of Photography, which resulted in her death and injury of another.

Baldwin needs to just shut up and hope that his celebrity status will shield him from prosecution for involuntary manslaughter/negligent homicide, which would happen with most other people who pointed a pistol at someone and accidentally shot them.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

13. Lol what a terrible idea

[obamanut2012]

14. Armorers need to have set training and an apprenticeship and certification

With a certain number of CEUs every year, and recert every three years or something.

Like electricians, plumbers, etc.

[ripcord]

16. Or just stop using guns that fire can fire live ammunition

[demigoddess]

47. that is what I say! teach actors to act the recoil. better than dying!

[Thomas Hurt]

17. ....not sure....hmmm....I don't get it.

[moreland01]

18. I suspect that this

is about liability. Cops are never held responsible for shootings. They are protected by laws that allow them to walk from accidental shootings are never be held personally liable.

[FSogol]

24. Instead, they should hire independent safety experts to control all firearms and training on films.

They would be hired by the studios and have no connection to actors, directors, or the rest of the crew. If you can run a boy scout shooting range with rifles and shotguns, you should be able to safely have guns in movies.

[The Mouth]

28. " If you can run a boy scout shooting range with rifles and shotguns..."

Well said!

However the concomitant is that every single person on the firing line at that range (at least if it's scouts or such) knows that every gun is always loaded and that you NEVER point any gun at something you don't mean to put a hole in.

Your point is excellent; even a modicum of adult supervision would be better than the apparent idiocy and chaos that happened on that set.

[COL Mustard]

42. I Ran A Rifle Range Operation

But I was in the Army and it was taken very very seriously. I also took it as a major learning experience that not everyone treats weapons with appropriate respect.

If they wanted to hire me as an armorer all the big egos would probably not like me. But there would not be a negligent discharge on my watch. Then again I'm old and don't care if they would like me, or want to work with me again, or what have you.

[keithsw]

29. Fuck this guy

He has always been an asshole with no respect for people at all. Now everything he does is just a pathetic attempt to cover his own ass

[Retrograde]

31. How would have this prevented the fatal shooting?

Didn't they already have a person whose job it was to make sure the guns were handled safely and responsibly - and that person didn't do it?

[ripcord]

33. Not allow firearms on sets?

Have people to follow the law and check any firearm they handle?

[twodogsbarking]

41. Bingo.

[OnDoutside]

37. Wow so much hate.

[whistler162]

68. You mean the disdain for the man whose

production company decided to cut costs which resulted in a tragedy!

[OnDoutside]

69. Nah, the amount of people sticking the boot In.

[Elessar Zappa]

39. No need for cops.

Just make sure the armorers are better trained and that everyone who handles the firearm treat it as if it had live ammunition. Or just use fake guns and add special effects after the fact.

[Withywindle]

48. Right. Because cops are famous for having good gun discipline and never shooting unnecessarily.

What would police have done in this situation? Shoot Baldwin dead too, probably. I don't see how that's helpful.

[Slammer]

49. gun safety

How about instead if we were to expect actors to follow the first couple of basic rules of gun safety:

1) Assume every gun is loaded unless you've personally and recently verified it hasn't been loaded.

2) Don't point the muzzle at anything you aren't willing to have a hole in.


My dad taught me those when I was a young kid.

But I can guarantee that Baldwin didn't follow those gun safety rules and simply depended on other people to verify whether it was loaded when he took a real gun into his hands.

And I can guarantee that he pointed the muzzle at another human being when he shouldn't have.

There's no number of possible policemen which would have stopped him from the careless stupidity of pointing the muzzle of that gun at another person.



BTW, that "Don't point the muzzle at anything you aren't willing to have a hole in" applies to a gun even if you just personally verified that it isn't loaded.

You won't ever have good habits with a loaded weapon if you instead develop the habit of treating weapons like they're empty.

"Real" bullets or blanks is irrelevant since a blank can penetrate enough to kill a person or pet.

[Kaleva]

59. +1

[Mawspam2]

50. Who really thinks police officers are experts...

...on guns? Anyone can be a cop. No training, no testing, no licensing. This is just stupid ass-covering by a moron who never took gun safety seriously until he killed someone.

[Aussie105]

52. Somebody hands you a six shooter.

Tells you it's unloaded.

Point it away from people, flip it open, check the cylinder. What is in there? Pull whatever is in there out, check if it's real or a blank.
Takes seconds.

Even I know that, and I live in a 'no guns for civilians' culture.

But familiarity breeds contempt. Lots of 'Oops, it was loaded!' incidents in the USA.

[Steelrolled]

54. Makes no sense.

Why would a cop be more skilled than a trained technician in making sure they don't have real ammunition in a gun? They'd be just as well off getting some gun enthusiast - and not hard to find.

[Kaleva]

57. I don't think police officers are trained on period guns and use of blanks

[Kaleva]

60. At a minimum, anyone on set who touches a gun should first complete a gun safety course.

[Zeitghost]

70. Probably not a great idea

I'd trust a film industry armorer over most LEO's with gun safety. Despite strapping one on everyday, many of them aren't into guns and they can get lax with handling rules. If anything the industry needs to adopt a certification process to insure inexperienced armorers aren't given too much too soon.

[IL Dem]

71. I like Dwayne Johnson's solution better.

"In an interview with Variety, the actor known as The Rock announced that his production company, Seven Bucks Productions, will no longer use real guns on the sets of any of its productions and will use rubber guns instead."

https://www.npr.org/2021/11/05/1052844115/dwayne-johnson-the-rock-firearms-guns-baldwin-rust