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Fri Jan 14, 2022, 12:22 PM

Iowa Senator Introduces Bill That Forces Teachers to Recite Pledge, be 'Patriotic'

Source: Iowa Starting Line

Iowa Republicans are seeking more control over what teachers say and do in the classroom.

Senate File 2043, introduced and referred to the education committee, would require teachers to recite the Pledge of Allegiance and stand while doing so, or while it is recited. Teachers with a documented disability that prevents them from standing are exempt from the requirement.

...snip...

Another section of the bill also limits what teachers can say about the Pledge of Allegiance.

It reads: “A teacher shall not, while in the classroom with any students in kindergarten through grade twelve, speak about the pledge of allegiance in any manner in which the student or students in the classroom may reasonably understand the teacher’s speech to be any of the following: an unpatriotic commentary on the United States, an attempt to politically influence the student or students.”


Read more: https://iowastartingline.com/2022/01/14/iowa-senator-introduces-bill-that-forces-teachers-to-recite-pledge-be-patriotic/

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Reply Iowa Senator Introduces Bill That Forces Teachers to Recite Pledge, be 'Patriotic' (Original post)
brooklynite Jan 14 OP
Ocelot II Jan 14 #1
mahatmakanejeeves Jan 14 #3
Ocelot II Jan 14 #10
mahatmakanejeeves Jan 14 #2
dalton99a Jan 14 #4
AngryOldDem Jan 14 #5
GB_RN Jan 14 #6
dalton99a Jan 14 #7
Lonestarblue Jan 14 #8
madaboutharry Jan 14 #9
SomewhereInTheMiddle Jan 14 #11
nowforever Jan 14 #12
turbinetree Jan 14 #13
SharonClark Jan 14 #14
The Jungle 1 Jan 14 #15
Marcuse Jan 15 #20
The Jungle 1 Jan 15 #21
minstrel76 Jan 14 #16
lonely bird Jan 14 #17
MissMillie Jan 14 #18
Initech Jan 14 #19
LudwigPastorius Jan 16 #22

Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jan 14, 2022, 12:29 PM

1. Many years ago the Supreme Court held that public school students could not be required

to recite the pledge:

"If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us." West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette, https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/319/624

The same principle surely applies equally to teachers. That case was decided on the basis of freedom of religion (Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in oaths to anything), so I don't think even this court would overrule it.

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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 14, 2022, 12:33 PM

3. Oh, darn it. Not only did you beat me to it, but you even posted my favorite SC quote.

Curses, foiled again.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 14, 2022, 12:58 PM

10. That's one of their best!

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jan 14, 2022, 12:32 PM

2. "If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, ..."

Not this again. Granted, Barnette applied to students, but I suspect that extending its coverages to teachers is not much of a stretch.

If the ghost of Antonin Scalia were to appear in Iowa's legislative chambers, it would start slappin' some legislators upside the head. With the assist, the Notorious RBG.

Blast from the DU past:

Mon Jun 14, 2021: On this day, June 14, 1943, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette was decided.

Sun Jun 14, 2020: On this day, June 14, 1943, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette was decided.

Sat Jun 15, 2019: Happy 76th anniversary, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette

Thu Jun 14, 2018: Happy 75th anniversary, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette

If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein.


West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette

Argued March 11, 1943
Decided June 14, 1943


West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943), is a decision by the United States Supreme Court holding that the Free Speech Clause of the First Amendment protects students from being forced to salute the American flag or say the Pledge of Allegiance in public school. The Court's 6–3 decision, delivered by Justice Robert H. Jackson, is remembered for its forceful defense of free speech and constitutional rights generally as being placed "beyond the reach of majorities and officials."

Barnette overruled a 1940 decision on the same issue, Minersville School District v. Gobitis, in which the Court stated that the proper recourse for dissent was to try to change the public school policy democratically. It was a significant court victory won by Jehovah's Witnesses, whose religion forbade them from saluting or pledging to symbols, including symbols of political institutions. However, the Court did not address the effect the compelled salutation and recital ruling had upon their particular religious beliefs but instead ruled that the state did not have the power to compel speech in that manner for anyone. In overruling Gobitis the Court primarily relied on the Free Speech Clause of the First Amendment rather than the Free Exercise Clause.

{snip}

Decision of the Court

The Court held, in a 6-to-3 decision delivered by Justice Jackson, that it was unconstitutional for public schools to compel students to salute the flag. It thus overruled its decision in Minersville School District v. Gobitis (1940), finding that the flag salute was "a form of utterance" and "a primitive but effective means of communicating ideas." The Court wrote that any "compulsory unification of opinion" was doomed to failure and was antithetical to the values set forth in the First Amendment. The Court stated:

If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein.

The Supreme Court announced its decision on June 14, Flag Day.

{snip}

Robert H. Jackson



Robert Houghwout Jackson (February 13, 1892 – October 9, 1954) was an American attorney and judge who served as an Associate Justice of the United States Supreme Court. He had previously served as United States Solicitor General, and United States Attorney General, and is the only person to have held all three of those offices. Jackson was also notable for his work as the Chief United States Prosecutor at the Nuremberg Trials of Nazi war criminals following World War II.

Jackson was admitted to the bar through a combination of reading law with an established attorney, and attending law school. He is the most recent justice without a law degree to be appointed to the Supreme Court. Jackson is well known for his advice that, "Any lawyer worth his salt will tell the suspect, in no uncertain terms, to make no statement to the police under any circumstances", and for his aphorism describing the Supreme Court, "We are not final because we are infallible, but we are infallible only because we are final." Jackson developed a reputation as one of the best writers on the Supreme Court, and one of the most committed to enforcing due process as protection from overreaching federal agencies.

{snip}

More:

Sun Feb 4, 2018: Gym teacher accused of assaulting student who wouldnt stand for Pledge of Allegiance

Mon Sep 8, 2014: Remembering the Brave Young Woman Who Refused to Say the Pledge of Allegiance Nearly 80 Years Ago



William (left) and Lillian (right) with father Walter Gobitas (via Jehovah’s Witnesses)

September 8, 2014
by Hemant Mehta

Usually, when I mention Jehovah’s Witnesses on this site, it’s not for a good reason. But we owe them a tremendous debt of gratitude.

In 1935, fifth-grader William Gobitas refused to say the Pledge of Allegiance because treating the flag like an idol went against his family’s JW faith. His 12-year-old sister Lillian did the same thing the next day.

They were both expelled from the Minersville School District in Pennsylvania quickly after that. Their parents were forced to pay for a private school, and that was the beginning of a lawsuit that went all the way up to the Supreme Court.

In 1940, in Minersville School District v. Gobitis, the Court ruled 8-1… in favor of the school district. Seriously. They said it wasn’t a violation of religious freedom to compel students to say the Pledge. It was such an awful decision, the Court (with a different makeup) reversed itself three years later in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/09/08/remembering-the-brave-young-woman-who-refused-to-say-the-pledge-of-allegiance-nearly-80-years-ago/



http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=310&invol=586

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=CASE&court=US&vol=319&page=624

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jan 14, 2022, 12:34 PM

4. And in the next Trump term, a Trump portrait in every classroom


which shall be permanently and prominently installed on the wall in the front of the classroom

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jan 14, 2022, 12:35 PM

5. This is a growing and serious threat.

Schools, and education in general, are under attack by the far Right.

Among several bills introduced in Indiana this year is one that would make school board elections partisan.

Another problem is, the legislators and those who show up to testify in favor have no idea what they’re talking about and throw around politically loaded terms without understanding what they mean. They want to whitewash — literally — American history, and dictate to teachers what they teach and how they teach it. Parents can object to curricula on any grounds.

As far as the Pledge goes, one state senator asked if a student could object to saying it (again, the reasons for objection are pretty broad). The answer — if you object, then you are un-American.


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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jan 14, 2022, 12:36 PM

6. I Was Gonna Say...

That this in no way sounded like it met constitutional muster. Screw this clown.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jan 14, 2022, 12:45 PM

7. About the dickhead:

The Republican candidate works in his family business, the Dickey Transport trucking company. His father was mayor of his hometown (Packwood in Jefferson County) for 27 years before retiring in 2019. Adrian Dickey’s political donation history shows mostly contributions to the political action committee representing trucking companies, plus one $500 gift to Governor Kim Reynolds’ campaign.

https://www.bleedingheartland.com/2021/01/07/adrian-dickey-mary-stewart-to-face-off-in-iowa-senate-district-41/

Today, Dickey Transport runs 80 trucks that haul refrigerated pork products throughout the Midwest and Southeast for companies such as Hormel Foods, Farmland Foods and JBS. Dickey's son, Adrian, is the third generation of Dickeys to work for the company.

https://www.southeastiowaunion.com/news/packwood-mayor-dave-dickey-retires-after-27-years/

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jan 14, 2022, 12:46 PM

8. Republicans should just admit that they hate public education and, if elected, will force

all students to attend extremist Christian schools that use only the Old Testament as their textbook—oh, and maybe girls do not need to attend because their sole function in life is to marry, have a load of kids, and never question the authority of any man to tell them what to do or, for that matter, to beat them at will. Domestic violence results in a lit of dead women, but I’ve seen no so-called pro-life person say a word against it.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jan 14, 2022, 12:46 PM

9. Mr. Dickey needs a copy of the USSC case:

West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette

I am so sick of these anti-Constitution morons and their faux patriotism.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jan 14, 2022, 01:08 PM

11. My question ...

Is in today's climate, might the current Court decide differently, based entirely on their political leanings rather than any consideration of precedence or the constitution?

While any reasonable person would likely agree that political litmus tests for public employees is a bed thing, not everyone fits my definition of reasonable.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jan 14, 2022, 01:55 PM

12. Didn't recite pledge

Every year during H.S. I stood and recited pledge once at the start of school year, for the rest of the year I sat and didn't recite the pledge. I felt it was senseless to have to reconfirm my allegiance daily as it would mean my words were not to be believed during the initial pledge. I ended up just avoiding homeroom most days as I was tired of defending my stance on the pledge.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jan 14, 2022, 02:07 PM

13. Did this senator fail in school and this is now his revenge.....

I guess he forgot to pledge allegiance to the Constitution.........or he doesn't know what it says......

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jan 14, 2022, 03:11 PM

14. Another GQP bill requires teachers to wear

microphones so parents can listen in.
Big Brother is alive and well in rural Iowa.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jan 14, 2022, 03:21 PM

15. We are one of the few countries who force a pledge

Ponder with me.
What does a pledge of allegiance mean if you are forced to make the pledge?
If a Jew was forced to recite the Christian Profession of Faith would that make him a Christian?
This is so ignorant it is beyond belief! Are we really this stupid?

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Response to The Jungle 1 (Reply #15)

Sat Jan 15, 2022, 01:13 AM

20. M Traitor G wanted non Christian members to swear on the Bible.

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Response to Marcuse (Reply #20)

Sat Jan 15, 2022, 08:58 AM

21. Listen I am not the brightest bulb, but....

How can anyone be this stupid and call themselves an American.
I am betting traitor G was allowed to skip civics class to iron her cheer outfit.

I like the M traitor G.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jan 14, 2022, 04:48 PM

16. Agreed, this bill does not pass constitutional muster

The problem is, we have a Trumpist, right wing SCOTUS that seems willing to scrap Roe v. Wade, and possibly Obergefell v. Hodges, so I'm not sure if any so-called "settled law" is safe anymore.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jan 14, 2022, 05:17 PM

17. Soooo...

Some Republican asshat gets to decide what is patriotic and what isn’t?

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jan 14, 2022, 06:10 PM

18. B.S. issue... whether or not a teacher recites the pledge or is patriotic

affects no one's life in any way.


Maybe they'd like to try to focus on something that matters..... D'OH! what was I thinking?


And if a student is required by law to be there, they shouldn't be forced to pledge allegiance to anything.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jan 14, 2022, 06:16 PM

19. That would get shot down pretty quickly.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Sun Jan 16, 2022, 10:18 AM

22. Cause nothing quite says "freedom" like...

a compulsory loyalty pledge.

🙄

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