Ukraine jets hit Russian column; Russia has used thermobarics, Ukraine military says

[Zorro]

Source: Military Times

Ukraine armed forces have been striking that long line of Russian troops heading to Kyiv while the Russians have used thermobaric weapons against Ukrainian cities, the head of Ukraine’s defense intelligence agency tells Military Times.

“We are striking the enemy’s columns,” Brig. Gen. Kyrylo Budanov told Military Times in an exclusive interview Wednesday morning. “We burn many columns of the enemy.”

The strikes, he said, are being conducted by Ukraine Su-24 and Su-25 fighter jets, artillery and missile barrages.

“My intelligence officers and agents are directing and calling the strikes,” he said.

Marine Lt. Col. Anton Semelroth, a Pentagon spokesman said Wednesday morning he “would not speak to intel assessments.”

Read more: https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/ukraine/2022/03/02/ukraine-jets-hit-russian-column-russia-has-used-thermobarics-ukraine-military-says/

[msongs]

1. good to hear they are doing that to the sitting duck column nt

[L. Coyote]

2. Deep dive, long thread, into maps and warfare:

That "long" convoy north of Kyiv isn't long any longer, they are massed around Abramov airport on the north side of the city. All they really control is the small area around themselves.

Link to tweet

[LymphocyteLover]

6. this is what Malcolm Nance said this morning on the Stephanie Miller show

[L. Coyote]

8. Yeah, they rolled down a major highway and amassed near Kyiv, now they are stalled, and

that's not conquest or control.

Another long and informative thread:

Link to tweet

[LymphocyteLover]

11. interesting-- thanks!

[cstanleytech]

34. I would not be surprised if the push towards Kyiv is actually a feint to draw Ukrainian troops

from the southern part of Ukraine.
After all what Putin wants the most is control of all the land along the Black Sea so he can run pipelines for oil and gas and not have to give the Ukrainian government or its people any of the money.

[L. Coyote]

36. They are securing the airport so they can resupply.

That's my conclusion, one step in attempting to take control of Kyiv and replace the government.

[Tetrachloride]

3. Night has fallen in this time zone. Now would be a good time to desert

[L. Coyote]

4. PHOTO: Russian military column tried to enter Bucha, a suburb to Kyiv, last night.

Link to tweet

[CaptainTruth]

10. I fought the NLAW & the NLAW won.

[link:|]

[MarineCombatEngineer]

25. Tread winner!!!!

[CaptainTruth]

46. Thanks! I can't claim credit for the meme, saw it on Twitter...

...but it is brilliant!

[Igel]

53. Thumbs up. n/t

[Kaleva]

12. Holy shit!

[erronis]

24. It appears that it would be hard to ID the occupants of those vehicles.

But then the russian criminal doesn't want their bodies back. He wants them to stay there, rotting and blocking the roads. Psycho, just like trump.

[OMGWTF]

39. About a week ago the Russians were hauling around a portable crematorium.

No one was sure if it was for dead soldiers or civilians. Putin must go. Yesterday.

[AntiFascist]

37. Great pic, wow! n/t

[lagomorph777]

47. Those NLAWs are meaner than my in-laws.

[LymphocyteLover]

5. I'm really shocked that Ukraine has maintained air superiority... the Russia air force seems AWOL

from this invasion. Very odd.

[Torchlight]

26. I've been wondering the same.

I went to Jane's and Wiki, and on paper, Russia's air force is just over ten times the size of Ukraine's.

I would have bet a paycheck a show of Russian air power would have occurred by the weekend, but it never materialized.

Poor maintenance, jet fuel shortages, holding it in reserve for a massive blitz, pilots may even be refusing to fly attack missions. Just guesses and shots in the dark on my part.

[Victor_c3]

32. Ukrainian air defense keeps them grounded

That’s my guess.

A guy running around with a shoulder mounted stinger missile is hard to find and kill.

Not to mention the costs difference between the two. A stinger missile costs about $120,000 and can be fired by a guy who who spent an afternoon learning the weapon. A pilot and a modern aircraft is worth many multiples of dollars more.

[forgotmylogin]

35. I read that too.

The article I read remarked that Russia doesn't want the bad optics that one of their million dollar aircraft can be taken down by one guy on the ground with a missile.

[LymphocyteLover]

56. Yes, good point. Whatever the explanation, it's working for Ukraine

[marie999]

58. They probably learned that lesson in Afghanistan.

[Victor_c3]

30. I can't speak for Russian aircraft

I had experience with aircraft (Apache helicopters) attached to my platoon during various combat operations. On paper, air support is great, but as soon as bullets start to fly or when there is a remote possibility that there is a weapon that could take one of those aircraft down, your air support is gone.

I imagine that the fear of stinger missiles (and other modern air defense weapons) is keeping Russian air support at bay.

[LymphocyteLover]

57. interesting

[The Jungle 1]

42. Air superiority is step one.

I agree where is it. Russia is presenting a paper tiger. I bet we knew.

[AZLD4Candidate]

7. For those that don't know military jargon: What are themobaric weapons? Example of one.

Never heard this term. I'm assuming it has something to do with heat.

[CaptainTruth]

14. Wikipedia has a good summary...

"A thermobaric weapon, aerosol bomb, fuel air explosive, or vacuum bomb[1] is a type of explosive that uses oxygen from the surrounding air to generate a high-temperature explosion. In practice, the blast wave typically produced by these weapons lasts significantly longer than that of a conventional condensed explosive. This can be launched as a rocket or dropped from an airplane as a bomb. The initial explosive charge detonates as it hits its target, opening the container and dispersing the fuel mixture as a cloud.[2] The fuel–air explosive is one of the best-known types of thermobaric weapon."

Basically the first blast releases a flammable gas cloud, & once that's expanded a second blast ignites the cloud. When the cloud burns it uses up the oxygen in the air creating a vacuum & a "reverse blast wave" that sucks inward instead of blowing outward like a conventional explosive.

[link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermobaric_weapon|]

They are nasty, damage to nearby living things is awful, so I'll add a warning about the "Effects" section on that Wikipedia page. The description of the "kill mechanism" is not for the squeamish. Using them on civilians (or any human being IMHO) should be prohibited.

[AZLD4Candidate]

17. so, it's a low level WMD.

Putler did put his nuke people on high alert.

[getagrip_already]

29. Also called a poor man's nuke....

Syria used these undoubtedly supplied by Russia. They called them barrel bombs. Dropped them from helicopters on civilian targets.

.

[TomWilm]

33. A barbaric weapon, invented in the United States, and then copied by Russia

Called Fuel Air Explosives, invented for use in the Vietnam War. Since further developed and used against Afghanistan and Iraq. Best known and criticized for when it was used against the civilian population in Fallujah in 2004. Idea is to make it possible to make as much damage as a nuclear bomb, without any nuclear stuff.

[CaptainTruth]

50. I agree it is horrific.

Sometimes I wonder about what kind of human being it takes to design more horrific ways of killing their fellow human beings, but I can't think about it for long because it's the kind of thing that can keep me awake at night.

[TomWilm]

55. And this should keep the inventors, politicians and generals awake as well!

I (have to) work with this knowledge as a journalist and activist, but it do bring me down as well.

But I write the most words about hope. For example all the countries in the world has banned landmines. Well not all, some b*stards did not. But now this ban have been there for so long time, that even all the b*stards outside this aggrement also has stopped making new minefields .

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

15. Here's a good description..

The thermobaric weapon, also known as an aerosol bomb or fuel air explosive, is a two-stage munition.

The first-stage charge distributes an aerosol made up of very fine material – from a carbon-based fuel to tiny metal particles. A second charge ignites that cloud, creating a fireball, a huge shock wave, and a vacuum as it sucks up all surrounding oxygen.

The blast wave can last for significantly longer than a conventional explosive and is capable of vaporising human bodies.

Such weapons are used for a variety of purposes and come in a range of sizes. Hellyer says what we may see in Ukraine is Russia using them in a “bunker-buster” role to destroy defensive positions. Extremely large, air-launched versions are designed to destroy caves and tunnel complexes.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/01/what-are-thermobaric-weapons-and-how-do-they-work

[videohead5]

16. I believe that it

Sucks all of the oxygen out of the air and anyone near can't breath.

[ZenDem]

19. Horrible...

I was reading up on them yesterday. Just horrible...

What is a thermobaric weapon? A thermobaric weapon sucks in oxygen from the surrounding air to generate a high-temperature explosion. It is capable of producing a blast wave of a significantly longer duration than that of a conventional explosive and is capable of vaporising human bodies and crushing internal organs.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/ukraine-war-what-are-thermobaric-bomb-russia-invasion-how-do-they-work-b985216.html

[erronis]

20. Wikipedia: thermobaric weapon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermobaric_weapon

Very destructive and indiscriminate. Just what poutine would do.

[bhikkhu]

48. The old US "daisy cutters" are one example

They weren't much more than a bunch of fertilizer and detonators, sometimes multiple bombs on a pallet that could be dropped by a heavy-lift helicopter. In Vietnam they were used to turn heavy forest into landing zones. Sometimes used against enemy positions, but the old design was too heavy to have much practical guidance or accuracy.

The newer US version is the "mother of all bombs" used in Afghanistan at Tora Bora, as you could detonate one above a cave complex and the blast would suck all the oxygen out and asphyxiate the inhabitants, if the blast wave itself didn't get them.

[fierywoman]

9. I'm rooting for the Ukrainians to hit the thermobaric launchers.

[mitch96]

21. I'm rooting for the Ukrainian forces capture the thermobaric weapons and use it on

the russian columns.. It would make a hell of an IED... I just feel so bad that all these people have to die for putins folly...
m

[relayerbob]

23. They have captured some

And will certainly use them when they can

[fierywoman]

28. Yup! me too.

[packman]

13. Passagge from article reminded me of Soviet throwing troops at Germany in WWII

"But the Biden administration still expects Russia to learn from its early mistakes. In the 1990s and 2000s, Russia conducted two assaults on Grozny, the Chechen capital, getting repelled the first time after a mostly conscript army was pushed back by unexpected resistance. But Russia was able to overtake the city in a second effort with new doctrine and better-trained troops, said John Spencer, a retired U.S. Army major who’s now the chair of urban warfare studies at the U.S. Military Academy’s Modern War Institute. "

Wave after wave of "disposable" troops against the Nazi's and stationing their own machine gunners in back of their own troops to shoot down retreating troops. "But we have no guns to fight them with!" they pleaded - and the officers told them to pick them off the ground from the dead soldiers who died before them.

Save the elite after expanding defense reserves.

[erronis]

22. That could be the tactic. Let cheap conscripts get killed and rot in place, then send in the elite.

Let's hope the elite turns the tables on poutine and his oligarchs.

I've been wondering if one of the reasons that the USSR (poutine's wet dream) didn't send in more attack bombers was because he was afraid they might try to take him out. (One can hope.)

[Igel]

54. I like poutine.

Putin, hardly.

Don't diss poutine. What's not to like? French fries. Gravy. Cheese.

[Texaswitchy]

52. There is a movie about this

A sniper movie,. can not remember the name .

A famous Russian sniper.

The group he came in with was just mowed down.

[Happy Hoosier]

18. Glad to hear it! Hope it's true.

So long as Ukraine can discomfit Russian forces and they cannot settle in, they stand a chance. Not a great chance, but a chance.

News that deliveries of weapons are arriving from the West is also very good news. We need to keep that supply going.

[ffr]

27. No Mach 6.5 S-400s shot at them? Why not? They have a range up to 400 KM

Strange. We've been warned on here that Ukraine can't use their aircraft against these invading convoys for fear of being shot down by Russian AA facilities. That would especially hold true for fantasies put forth about the mess A-10 Warthogs would make of such concentrated military convoys.

What happened to the mighty impenetrable most advanced AA weapon system in the world that's reportedly right on the other side of the Ukrainian borders?

Okay well, maybe the Su-24/25 jets are too fast to shoot down at distant ranges, maybe that's it. Only, Ukraine is effectively operating slow armed drones too, made by Turkey. We're not hearing of those being shot out of the sky either. I wonder if some of this coincides with the curvature of the Earth or other limitations of the much vaunted S-400.

[burrowowl]

31. Thermobaric bombs as well as cluster bombs should be

banned by the Geneva Convention!

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

38. Yeah, agreed...The US used its GBU-43b once in Afghanistan. We built 15. I think 13 remain.

At the time of development, it was said to be the most powerful non-nuclear weapon in the American arsenal.

FAE type weapons regardless of size are devastating. I would hope those nations that have these will refrain from using them and especially against civilian targets. Of course delusional dictators with a god complex see any enemy, civilian, military, road, airport, TV-station... only as a targets.

[colorado_ufo]

41. I thought that they were.

[burrowowl]

51. US hasn't signed agreement to ban cluster bombs and

We haven't ratified the Human Rights Treaty whose main author was Elenor Roosevelt either.

[Grins]

40. Get the fuel trucks.

Then tanks, then artillery, then C&C vehicles, then troop carriers.

[AZLD4Candidate]

45. Just keep slicing supply lines.

It's what Russia did to the Nazis and the Chinese did to the Japanese.

[bhikkhu]

49. And what Finland did to the Soviets

...cutting up and destroying whole divisions once their transport was disabled and supply lines were cut. The Finns did eventually lose, but I think Stalin was so done with them he let them go their own way without a fight after WWII.

[RussBLib]

43. target practice

slow-moving
lumbering bear
ka-bloowie

so glad to hear Ukraine still has jets!

[The Jungle 1]

44. These shoulder held missiles are a big deal.

This is like the bow and arrow. The bow gave the peasants power.
If it is the missiles, then warfare is forever changed. Tanks will be as worthless as suits of armor. One soldier can take down a jet, while hiding behind a rock